TeamClinton counters TeamBush best? Where were they in 2002 and 2004?

Wouldn't THAT have been the best time to actually DO the countering of Bush?


Seemed to me that TeamClinton's star, Bill, spent MOST of that time PUBLICALLY supporting Bush2 on his major issues, and PUBLICALLY buddied up to Bush1, thereby rehabbing for the public eye the head of the BFEE, mastermind behind IranContra, Iraqgate, BCCI and CIA drugrunning.

And TeamClinton players like Terry McAuliffe never secured the election process as head of the DNC and oversaw the weakened and collapsed party infrastructures in red and swing states, thanks to his national strategy of only targetting certain states and completely ignoring others.

Carville (married to WHIG and Cheney advisor) KNEW about WH Plame outing and let Wilson get smeared as a liar throughout 2003-4. Mandy Grunwald (married to Matt Cooper) KNEW the WH outed Plame but let Wilson get smeared as liar throughout 2003-4. Their silence helped protect the WH before the election.

Paul Begala probably said at LEAST a hundred times on television that he knew Bush well and George Bush was a really nice guy. How many times did he say the same about the Dem primary candidates and eventual nominee?

Carville topped it off by tipping Matalin that Kerry had 250,000 provisional ballots he'll be contesting in Ohio > Matalin tells Bush to call Blackwell > Ohio election official informs Kerry camp they have 150,000 provisional ballots to try and make up the difference > Dem legal team tells Kerry no legal case can be made to continue.

So, if TeamClinton believes they are the ONLY ones who can lead the Dem party to victory, and believe their ability to sell people, then why didn't they work to do so the last 6 years? Why didn't THEY run Hillary or ANYbody in 2004 to prevent another term for Bush?

Dean implemented a 50 state strategy and it will take his entire 4 years to concentrate on fixing the party infrastructure in all those formerly neglected states. The Dem FIGHTERS who were treated as an embarrassment to the party on DSM, Alito filbuster, election fraud, censure, and Iraq withdrawal, were the ones who kept chipping away at Bush's poll numbers, and only when Bush's poll numbers were staying in the cellar did TeamClinton rise up and jump in front of the party and say THEY will lead the battle now.

Why didn't they lead the battle against Bush this entire time?

Democrats dfefended every smear hurled at the Clintons for years. How did TeamClinton reciprocate when smears were hurled against other Democrats?

Why didn't they help lead a battle to knock down the GOPs cottage industry devoted to the smearing of Dems throughout that entire time?

From the Clinton's point of view, the Dem Party is there to serve them.

Kerry was exhausted from campaigning all over the country to ensure a Democratic Congress. Hillary knew that, but saw an opening to destroy a potential rival.

I do not trust the Clintons at all. They also counseled both Gore and Kerry to not contest the election frauds of 2000, and 2004.

Kerry comment.

Hillary is an elitist. And it's always all about Hillary.

so much worse than what Howard Dean said?

“I disagree with Sen. Kerry's remarks, but he is not on the ballot," said Howard Dean, chairman of the Democratic National Committee.

That's not a whole lot of support from him.

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=2623018&page=1

from Howard Dean. It would have been a lot classier.

but what was Dean's disagreement with Kerry about?

Kerry's alleged bashing of American troops?

Was he saying that it wasn't a botched joke; which again means that he thought Kerry actually DID bash American troops?

I just don't see it as being any better than Hillary's comment.

There are too many reasons not to support her.
She doesn't deserve the nomination. Please run
Al Gore!!

I am very serious.
I didn't vote for her in the last election (2006 - senate), because of the IWR.
But I had promised myself in the name of common sense I'll defend her from extreme sliming. Yours are the kind that almost make me want her as my candidate.

Slime is saying the Clintons trashed the White House - that is slime because it is untrue.

Show me where I said something untrue.

What blm has posted is the truth - if strongly worded - are you saying that "strongly worded truth = slime"?

I held off on Clinton until she showed her true colors by pushing Kerry under the bus. Then I started thinking about all the ways that the Clintons have failed the Dem Party while apparently succeeding at self-promotion. The Voter Integrity thing being run by Brazile - who was the first to "slime" Kerry after the elections, perhaps to take the spotlight off her own failure - is a big item on the pile.

I might vote for Hillary if she is the Dem nominee. But I will know that I am not getting much for my vote.

Is there something the OP said that wasn't true?

Bringing up valid questions is not sliming. Counter his questions with your point of view. Discuss. Convince.

Your vote is yours to cast. May you cast it wisely.

Just as the thugs turned me against JK, the object of their obsession, they are now causing me to move squarely into HRC's court with this disgraceful thrust to annihilate her as their new obsession. They will find their efforts yet again will have quite the opposite effect than intended.

didn't have to do a thing.

at least now that kerry has dropped out of the race, we can see your
arguments for what they are. with the pro-kerry mask ripped away, there
is nothing left but empty anti-hillary rhetoric.

and sliming the clintons as * toadies is just plain wrong.

.

and the very nature of the crap you are slinging against
the clintons is unproven because it is essentially unprovable.

until you can produce anything more than a few stray quotes from
conspiracy authors that have nothing but high blood pressure to
recommend them, I choose to ignore the highly implausible.

have a 'peaceful retirement' for his years of service?

And please show where Robert Parry is now considered a conspiracy author instead of a highly regarded investigative reporter.

is hardly something to send a man to the gallows over. not to
mention a memoir is a good long ways from authoritative.

and you consistently twist parry's work to suit your own ends.

but as I said, this is all unproven, and unprovable. if here was
any merit to it whatever, the jails would be full(er) of former bush
administration officials, regardless of what one sentence read's in
BC's memoir.

about BCCI, even though there was a long list of matters in BCCI that needed resolution when Clinton took office.

Now - in 1996, how did the WH handle the revelation that CIA drugrunning operations faciliatated the IranContra figures who were dumping tons of cheap cocaine into black communities?

Or are you claiming that it didn't happen?

of restoring relations with Vietnam, here are the contributions of the man who was to claim the nomination the month after he released the book he neglected to mention:

1) Kerry chaired the effort on POW/MIA which was a massive undertaking - involving 14 trips to Vietnam. McCain in his book credits Kerry as the man who made it happen

2) Kerry and McCain convinced Clinton he could do it and that the Senate vets would stand behind him. Per McCain, Kerry layed out the arguments spending about an hour, McCain then said "I agree with Kerry."

3) Kerry and aides drafted the the treaty and included the unusual provision to let Americans work with Vietnames to dig up Americans remains to previde closure for many families - including (per a similar agreement with Laos) those of Howard Dean's brother.

4) Kerry and McCain pushed it through the Senate.

As Clinton was selfish enough to put the book out the month before the convention - because after spending June speaking of Reagan's death, what would be more useful to Democrats than having every pundit prove they know where to find the letter "L" in the dictionary - you would thing he could have given a wee little bit of credit to the nominee - who was know significantly before the book when to press.

open government. It just so happened that Kerry had a record that proved he thought this was important enough to fight against even with both parties being against him (google BCCI, John Kerry). And, I think these are important questions for the Clintons to answer. Perhaps this time around (if they make it to the WH) they'll do the right thing, but their track record is not very promising. Those goons they let off are back in the WH, and creating havoc. This is not personal with the Clintons -- it's simply that they have not shown the slightest interest in achieving justice against crimes committed by our own government.

the only democratic candidate re-elected to the white house in a
generation, and people want to lint pick him to death over ancient
rumors and malicious gossip.

on the crimes committed in the Iran/Contra scandal as well as BCCI. That's not gossip. It's the truth. On the election, Clinton never won in a head to head match -- it was Perot who saved him. So we don't really know how he would have done without the Perot factor. In fact, "unelectability" is the major criticism of Hillary right now because of her high negatives. So you're reasoning is a little weird.

He beat Dole. (Considering that Dole was a sour and grumpy old geezer, that isn't really a great testimonial to Bill's electability.)

Here's the Wikipedia on that election:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1996#Results

It looks like Clinton would have won, barely, had Perot not run (he tended to take GOP votes). But unlike '92, he was an encumbent.

Without Perot I think Clinton would've won, but it would've been closer.

Incredible induced-amnesia job by the media. All during the 90s, in between anti-Clinton right-wing smears, we were treated to glowing exclamations of his political genius. I guess no one on either side was telling the truth. ;(

.

and maybe I will believe it.

other than BC may have said 7 or 8 nice words about his predecessor
in a memoir of a thousand pages.

honestly. what the hell do you think you have here? what have you
proven? you only dredge it up to smear the clintons, and hillary
in particular. and don't think you are fooling anyone by cloaking all
of this is some noble pursuit of government corruption. it was nearly
20 years ago.

I'm not buying it. you are out to drop hillary's candidacy in a heap,
period.

'ancient crimes' and many of the same players in those 'ancient crimes' involved in every major event the WH is now involved with?

9-11 is rooted in what?

Here's a google start:

BCCI Bush Bath Bin Laden Pakistan


Have fun.

tend to hang out with the same group of losers.

but about this BCCI/9-11 connection. care to elucidate?

.

you said there was a connection. other than a few strays and hangers
on between the bush1 and bush2 administrations, what is that connection?

it is a very different thing to observe that some of the same names are
curiously (although otherwise reasonably explained) present, and drawing
a tangible connection between BCCI and 9-11.

That funding came from international financiers through high-powered banking networks and involved in moneylaundering, armstrading and drugdealing with the money going to fund terrorist groups. Part of it also included the funding of AQ Khan the Pakistani nuclear scientist who Bush2 curiously allowed to be let off the hook with a slap on the wrist through the Pakistani judicial system.

Surprised that you aren't aware of this. Bin Laden lost a few million when Kerry's investigation forced the bank to finally close.

The curious thing is that the matter was ever DROPPED after a 5 year investigation specified that it needed to continue for very serious issues. THAT report is what Clinton inherited when he took office and THAT is what was dropped.

There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:

1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.

2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.

3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.

4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al- Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.

5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.

6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.

7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British
investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.

8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including
the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.

9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich
remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.

10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political
figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.

11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.

12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.

13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.

14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.

15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.

16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.

17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.

18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.

19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.

20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

"And TeamClinton players like Terry McAuliffe never secured the election process as head of the DNC and oversaw the weakened and collapsed party infrastructures in red and swing states, thanks to his national strategy of only targeting certain states and completely ignoring others."

As an elected Democratic committee person and a life long Democrat, I'm out to spare our party from making the huge strategic error
of nominating Hillary Clinton for President.

I think we will lose if we do that, I also think the country will lose if we do that. I know you have a different opinion, which is fine.

But attacking the OP because she doesn't share your cult-like worship of Hillary is wrong.

Perhaps you might want to present some counter evidence to counter the assertions of the original poster, instead of relentlessly attacking the original poster..

This does not come from the right wing.

it certainly sounds like it.

of a personal nature and most were lies or at best half truths (remember the Arkansas Project? I don't remember Iran/Contra having anything to do with that). Why would right wingers go against Clinton for letting their goons off? Of course, they wouldn't. Wow. Someone's in denial.

in the name of sliming the clintons.

.

kept quiet while Wilson and Plame were attacked. Or that Carville tipped off Matalin on election night. Or that McAuliffe collapsed party infrastructure and failed to secure election process.

Please show me ONE article or statement by a RWer that echoes mine.

very much a right wing pastime.

I just wish I didn't see it currently practiced
so much here at DU.

Bush's scandals are Bush's scandals - Clinton had no interest in bringing those matters to justice. That's a fact. He now pals around closely with Poppy Bush and makes certain to exclaim how much he loves the man. That's a fact. Clinton WANTS us to know these things. Why don't YOU want us to be unhappy about it?

just because you hold the latter does not create ownership for you
of the former.

If you're taking the time to post that I am being untruthful, then wouldn't the time be better spent showing me my error and and giving me the facts so I can change my post?

repeated there meme almost word for word.

don't believe me.

She maybe should have instead faught the Republican spin machine to defend her fellow Democrat. But that's not her style, apparently.

There is no opinion in there.

Where are your links or facts stating otherwise?

It's really does a disservice to Hillary's campaign to just defend without facts. At least BLM has always used facts to uphold her/his arguments.

Looks to me like Jack Nicholson said it right..."You can't handle the truth!"

the burden of proof simply isn't on me.

"at least now that kerry has dropped out of the race, we can see your
arguments for what they are. with the pro-kerry mask ripped away, there
is nothing left but empty anti-hillary rhetoric.

and sliming the clintons as * toadies is just plain wrong."

And it's also a personal attack. However, given that you think blm's words are not true then prove they aren't.

Because as we all are well aware of from your comment, we know you've seen Blm's links about BCCI and corruption all over D.U.

So prove that Clinton didn't prevent BCCI from being tried. Prove that the things BLM alleged are not true.

your quote:

"So prove that Clinton didn't prevent BCCI . . . . "

surely, you have heard of the famous logical fallacy about being
able to prove a negative? of course, that is the whole point of
one of these threads; to lay out a bunch of half truths and, it
must also be noted, largely irrelevant observations, and then demand
that anyone foolhardy enough to refuse to believe them "disprove"
that which flatly has not been proven in the first place.

sorry, not biting.

.

I've sort of been chuckling at your demands for specific instances of
RW memes because I didn't think you could possibly mean it.

did you miss the entire clinton administration? the special counsels
that the rethug congress created every other week?

this is about the totality of your posting efforts; they are completely
in harmony with the "blood in the water" environment that the rethugs
poisoned the clinton era with.

they were oddly undefined and unprovable as well, and the rethugs repeatedly
insisted they were part of the public record. remember that starr deviant?

are true.

Bill doesn't mind that we all know how much he loves the Bushes, why do you care that we are unhappy about the closeness since Bush1 committed so many crimes in office - we aren't allowed to be angry that the closeness ended up effecting the way Bush and his crimes are perceived?

an emotional response, and therefore highly immune to logic.

.

Perhaps you are unaware (either innocently or selectively, I'm not sure), but the Clintons (mainly Bill) are ALWAYS called on to campaign throughout the entire country for candidates nation-wide. Most recently, Bill Clinton traveled to districts all over the country to campaign for Senate seats and House seats. Here are some fundraiser/campaign stops from 2006 (though not nearly a complete list):
-Webb in Virginia
-Granholm, Stabenow, and Conyers in Michigan
-Peterson and Mitchell in Arizona
-McNerney and Angelides in California
-Cardin in Maryland
-McCaskill in Missouri
-Brown in Ohio
-Casey in Pennsylvania

Regarding 2004, Bill had had had major heart surgery soon before the electionn but still got back on the campaign trail for Kerry earlier than expected, making several major appearances. He was equally as busy during the 2002 election cycle.

rest of the team and what they knew and what they did and how they performed in their duties as Democratic voices for the last 6 years?

And Clinton having heart surgery doesn't mean he's innocent of protecting the Bushes at crucial times when they needed protecting.

(at least as it applies to your fuzzy "infrastructure" theory)

is that he had to deal with a rethug congress, most governors,
and a majority of the state legislatures for nearly all of his
two terms in office.

but it's far more convenient to blame bill.

and sided with the Constitution to let BushInc be exposed for all his criminal activities in office.

Letting Bush's crimes be revealed fully would have meant:

No GOP congress. No impeachment. No Bush2. No 9-11. No Iraq war.

you just completed the circle; the cause is the effect.

.

any factual correction you might offer.

Make an effort to not take out your disappointment (with JK not running) on another candidate with this boorish, thuggish kind of posting. The obsessively incessant thrust of your campaign of nastiness and negativity will have precisely the opposite effect, just like what happened with your "devotion" to JK that didn't win a single convert here at DU even starting with everyone having voted for him in 2004.

with QUESTIONS instead of stars in your eyes.

Something that clearly escapes you.

Bye.

besides, this post has everything to do with the Clinon's claims to fame and very little to do with Kerry. That is just your excuse because BLM pointed out the facts on the Clinton's.

Prosecuted all of the underlings? That would've done absolutely nothing.

I know it wasn't nearly a complete list, but it should have at least gien you an idea. Yet, you chose to ignore it.

I'm done. This is ridiculous.

the GOP president's positions when the Dem nominee is opposing those positions.

And Clinton still let Bush1 off the hook throughout his term when he could have pursued serious matters that Bush1 was involved in, but Clinton refused saying he wanted Poppy to have a peaceful retirement.

And again - it is not just Clinton but his ENTIRE TEAM who did little in 2000, 2002 and 2004 to help the Dem candidates and in McAuliffe's case, did NOTHING to secure the election process in 2000, 2002 and 2004.

because I actually do agree with you that Clinton was a little too supportive of Bush's foreign policy immediately post-9/11. However, I cannot agree with your general statement because you say he did "NOTHING" to help Democrats which is absolutely false, as I laid out very clearly for you.

benefit Bush2 received from Clinton's very public support of positions.

And the other team members in place now for Hillary's campaign - look at their actual contributions to the 2000, 2002 and 2004 campaign cycles and what roles they had in some extremely suspect circumstances that ended up protecting Bush's campaign.

"And again - it is not just Clinton but his ENTIRE TEAM who did little in 2000, 2002 and 2004 to help the Dem candidates and in McAuliffe's case, did NOTHING to secure the election process in 2000, 2002 and 2004."

Oh, and I doubt Bush received such huge benefits from Clinton's support. Those who support Bush policies are unlikely to be swayed by Clinton.

McAuliffe DIDN'T secure the election process, because everything that happened in 2000 was even worse in 2004.

absolutely love Bill Clinton. And I remember Bill on Larry King before the Iraq War praising Bush -- saying all the things he was doing right, and only giving some caution on how to approach it. Sorry, Bill was not an anti-war voice, nor did he say much at all about the war throughout its duration. What Bill had to say in '03 and '04 MATTERED, and it did affect swing voters' opinions on who they would vote for in '04.

He only criticized Bush on domestic matters.

It's much easier to get people to donate money when you have a president from both parties supporting the cause. Poppy has very little if any influence over his son's decisions as evidenced by the complete rejection of the Baker/Hamilton commission.

And Bill Clinton campaigned for and advised Kerry during the 2004 election even after his heart surgery. He was even advising Kerry over the phone from his hospital bed. That's hardly what I call supporting Bush.

I admit that the establishment (which still mostly consists of Clinton people) don't like Howard Dean. But Howard Dean is proposing change and if there's one thing that the establishment of anything hates, it's change. You are expecting them to welcome Dean with open arms, and that simply isn't going to happen. But Dean proved what he could do in 2006 and will likely do so again in 2008. Our party infrastructure from Dean's work and also our victories in 2006 elections particularly in gubernatorial races will prove to be a huge asset. Kerry's biggest problem in Ohio last time was that the state government was entirely run by Republicans.

gave that entire matter NEW LEGS and the CIA documents were there to prove it. Instead, the reporter was targeted for a takedown as the WH denied and downplayed the story.

Then there is the matter of BCCI which Clinton did inherit. What happened? What did he do? He never even mentions it once in his book.

Then there is all his PUBLIC support for Bush2's policies and Bush1 palling around LONG BEFORE tsunami or Katrina.

Then when Latterman gave him a perfect opening on the Downing Street Memos to discuss there import, Clinton UNBELIEVABLY asserts he never heard of them - and that was over a month after the story broke and the House and Senate sent round Letters of Inquiry for the investigation.

If he wasn't protecting Bushes then and now, then pray tell, wtf was he thinking?

Yes maybe he could've sent some people in poppy's administration to jail but I don't see how it could've prevented Bush II from getting elected. You seem to be asserting that Clinton could've put Karl Rove, Dick Cheney, and all of the other masterminds behind the Shrub administration in jail so that he would've never been elected.

Either that or he could've put enough high level Republicans in jail that they would've been politically ruined. Please name these high level Republicans because, again, Poppy pardoned all of the big fall guys and many of the others escaped because someone else took the fall for them.

I don't deny that Clinton could've pursued these matters further, and maybe in the interest of justice he should have done that. But there's a difference between carrying out justice and destroying the Republican Party which you're asserting he could've done.

through those years, and on every one he spoke supportively of Bush's positions on military matters.

My source on Letterman comments was watching Letterman at the time it was said and again....many people here at DU were saying WTF???? about Clinton's comment.

He returned to the spotlight in a big way for his book tour. Another failed opportunity to discuss the serious matters that he inherited and which are all part of the current terror issue. It's not like those issues were ever irrelevant.

Still don't see how outstanding matters in Iran Contra, BCCI, and CIA Drug Running would've taken down the Republican Party for good.

more of Iraqgate, IranContra and BCCI were revealed? And CIA drugrunning brought many of the IranContra figures back into limelight and that story came out in 1996.

The GOP would've attacked him for wasting time on getting political revenge instead of fulfilling his campaign promises. Again, if he had been able to deliver high level GOP figures with the investigations then maybe he could've set the GOP back for a decade or so. But I personally don't see how that could've happened.

Again, can you give specific names of high level GOP figures that Clinton's justice department could've prosecuted in relation to these matters?

as national securoty, and only a president could have declassified them?

No way would public have been happy that Bush1 had participated when he said he hadn't.

And back then, the RW media takeover was still at its early stage so there was still some objective media to get the real story out.

How exactly was the justice department supposed to prove Poppy's involvement? The congressional investigations certainly didn't do that. Chances are that had poppy been in serious trouble somebody would've just taken the fall for him like Libby is doing for Cheney.

of outstanding questions that were part of the report turned in Sept 1992 - a report that Clinton inherited and one that specified that more answers were needed. This is not fluff stuff - especially when you read it in the context of what has gone in since Bush2 took office. Imagine if Clinton chose to get behind this and facilitate the access to what was needed as only a president could. And then think about this - - Clinton never even mentions one word about BCCI in his book. THAT is when I lost my trust in him. I thought we'd hear an explanation of why he couldn't pursue it, like because of the world economy that was rumored to be near collapse if the BCCI case was fully revealed. But, he said NOTHING.



There have been a number of matters which the Subcommittee has received some information on, but has not been able to investigate adequately, due such factors as lack of resources, lack of time, documents being withheld by foreign governments, and limited evidentiary sources or witnesses. Some of the main areas which deserve further investigation include:

1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.

2. BCCI's manipulation of commodities and securities markets in Europe and Canada. The Subcommittee has received information that remains not fully substantiated that BCCI defrauded investors, as well as some major U.S. and European financial firms, through manipulating commodities and securities markets, especially in Canada, the Netherlands, and Luxembourg. This alleged fraud requires further investigation in those countries.

3. BCCI's activities in India, including its relationship with the business empire of the Hinduja family. The Subcommittee has not had access to BCCI records regarding India. The substantial lending by BCCI to the Indian industrialist family, the Hindujas, reported in press accounts, deserves further scrutiny, as do the press reports concerning alleged kick-backs and bribes to Indian officials.

4. BCCI's relationships with convicted Iraqi arms dealer Sarkis Soghanalian, Syrian drug trafficker, terrorist, and arms trafficker Monzer Al-Kassar, and other major arms dealers. Sarkenalian was a principal seller of arms to Iraq. Monzer Al- Kassar has been implicated in terrorist bombings in connection with terrorist organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Other arms dealers, including some who provided machine guns and trained Medellin cartel death squads, also used BCCI. Tracing their assets through the bank would likely lead to important information concerning international terrorist and arms trafficker networks.

5. The use of BCCI by central figures in arms sales to Iran during the 1980's. The late Cyrus Hashemi, a key figure in allegations concerning an alleged deal involving the return of U.S. hostages from Iran in 1980, banked at BCCI London. His records have been withheld from disclosure to the Subcommittee by a British judge. Their release might aid in reaching judgments concerning Hashemi's activities in 1980, with the CIA under President Carter and allegedly with William Casey.

6. BCCI's activities with the Central Bank of Syria and with the Foreign Trade Mission of the Soviet Union in London. BCCI was used by both the Syrian and Soviet governments in the period in which each was involved in supporting activities hostile to the United States. Obtaining the records of those financial transactions would be critical to understanding what the Soviet Union under Brezhnev, Chernenko, and Andropov was doing in the West; and might document the nature and extent of Syria's support for international terrorism.

7. BCCI's involvement with foreign intelligence agencies. A British source has told the Bank of England and British
investigators that BCCI was used by numerous foreign intelligence agencies in the United Kingdom. The British intelligence service, the MI-5, has sealed documents from BCCI's records in the UK which could shed light on this allegation.

8. The financial dealings of BCCI directors with Charles Keating and several Keating affiliates and front-companies, including
the possibility that BCCI related entities may have laundered funds for Keating to move them outside the United States. The Subcommittee found numerous connections among Keating and BCCI-related persons and entities, such as BCCI director Alfred Hartman; CenTrust chief David Paul and CenTrust itself; Capcom front-man Lawrence Romrell; BCCI shipping affiliate, the Gokal group and the Gokal family; and possibly Ghaith Pharaon. The ties between BCCI and Keating's financial empire require further investigation.

9. BCCI's financing of commodities and other business dealings of international criminal financier Marc Rich. Marc Rich
remains the most important figure in the international commodities markets, and remains a fugitive from the United States following his indictment on securities fraud. BCCI lending to Rich in the 1980's amounted to tens of millions of dollars. Moreover, Rich's commodities firms were used by BCCI in connection with BCCI's involving in U.S. guarantee programs through the Department of Agriculture. The nature and extent of Rich's relationship with BCCI requires further investigation.

10. The nature, extent and meaning of the ownership of shares of other U.S. financial institutions by Middle Eastern political
figures. Political figures and members of the ruling family of various Middle Eastern countries have very substantial investments in the United States, in some cases, owning substantial shares of major U.S. banks. Given BCCI's routine use of nominees from the Middle East, and the pervasive practice of using nominees within the Middle East, further investigation may be warranted of Middle Eastern ownership of domestic U.S. financial institutions.

11. The nature, extent, and meaning of real estate and financial investments in the United States by major shareholders of BCCI. BCCI's shareholders and front-men have made substantial investments in real estate throughout the United States, owning major office buildings in such key cities as New York and Washington, D.C. Given BCCI's pervasiveness criminality, and the role of these shareholders and front-men in the BCCI affair, a complete review of their holdings in the United States is warranted.

12. BCCI's collusion in Savings & Loan fraud in the U.S. The Subcommittee found ties between BCCI and two failed Savings and Loan institutions, CenTrust, which BCCI came to have a controlling interest in, and Caprock Savings and Loan in Texas, and as noted above, the involvement of BCCI figures with Charles Keating and his business empire. In each case, BCCI's involvement cost the U. S. taxpayers money. A comprehensive review of BCCI's account holders in the U.S. and globally might well reveal additional such cases. In addition, the issue of whether David Paul and CenTrust's political relationships were used by Paul on behalf of BCCI merits further investigation.

13. The sale of BCCI affiliate Banque de Commerce et de Placements (BCP) in Geneva, to the Cukorova Group of Turkey, which owned an entity involved in the BNL Iraqi arms sales, among others. Given BNL's links to BCCI, and Cukorova Groups' involvement through its subsidiary, Entrade, with BNL in the sales to Iraq, the swift sale of BCP to Cukorova just weeks after BCCI's closure -- prior to due diligence being conducted -- raises questions as to whether a prior relationship existed between BCCI and Cukorova, and Cukorova's intentions in making the purchase. Within the past year, Cukorova also applied to purchase a New York bank. Cukorova's actions pertaining to BCP require further investigation in Switzerland by Swiss authorities, and by the Federal Reserve New York.

14. BCCI's role in China. As noted in the chapter on BCCI's activities in foreign countries, BCCI had extensive activity in China, and the Chinese government allegedly lost $500 million when BCCI closed, mostly from government accounts. While there have been allegations that bribes and pay-offs were involved, these allegations require further investigation and detail to determine what actually happened, and who was involved.

15. The relationship between Capcom and BCCI, between Capcom and the intelligence community, and between Capcom's shareholders and U.S. telecommunications industry figures. The Subcommittee was able to interview people and review documents concerning Capcom that no other investigators had to date interviewed or reviewed. Much more needs to be done to understand what Capcom was doing in the United States, the United Kingdom, Egypt, Oman, and the Middle East, including whether the firm was, as has been alleged but not proven, used by the intelligence community to move funds for intelligence operations; and whether any person involved with Capcom was seeking secretly to acquire interests in the U.S. telecommunications industry.

16. The relationship of important BCCI figures and important intelligence figures to the collapse of the Hong Kong Deposit and Guaranty Bank and Tetra Finance (HK) in 1983. The circumstances surrounding the collpase of these two Hong Kong banks; the Hong Kong banks' practices of using nominees, front-companies, and back-to-back financial transactions; the Hong Banks' directors having included several important BCCI figures, including Ghanim Al Mazrui, and a close associate of then CIA director William Casey; all raise the question of whether there was a relationship between these two institutions and BCCI-Hong Kong, and whether the two Hong Kong institutions were used for domestic or foreign intelligence operations.

17. BCCI's activities in Atlanta and its acquisition of the National Bank of Georgia through First American. Although the Justice Department indictments of Clark Clifford and Robert Altman cover portions of how BCCI acquired National Bank of Georgia, other important allegations regarding the possible involvement of political figures in Georgia in BCCI's activities there remain outside the indictment. These allegations, as well as the underlying facts regarding BCCI's activities in Georgia, require further investigation.

18. The relationship between BCCI and the Banca Nazionale del Lavoro. BCCI and the Atlanta Branch of BNL had an extensive relationship in the United States, with the Atlanta Branch of BNL having a substantial number of accounts in BCCI's Miami offices. BNL was, according to federal indictments, a significant financial conduit for weapons to Iraq. BCCI also made loans to Iraq, although of a substantially smaller nature. Given the criminality of both institutions, and their interlocking activities, further investigation of the relationship could produce further understanding of Saddam Hussein's international network for acquiring weapons, and how Iraq evaded governmental restrictions on such weapons acquisitions.

19. The alleged relationship between the late CIA director William Casey and BCCI. As set forth in the chapter on intelligence, numerous trails lead from BCCI to Casey, and from Casey to BCCI, and the investigation has been unable to follow any of them to the end to determine whether there was indeed a relationship, and if there was, its nature and extent. If any such relationship existed, it could have a significant impact on the findings and conclusions concerning the CIA and BCCI's role in U.S. foreign policy and intelligence operations during the Casey era. The investigation's work detailing the ties of BCCI to the intelligence community generally also remains far from complete, and much about these ties remains obscure and in need of further investigation.

20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/6/17/04019/0791

The date can help you find the DU threads about it - there were alot of pissed off DUers then, as we had been spearheading the campaign to push the media and congress to discuss it and investigate it,

BTW - the story broke in the US the first week in May, so no way did Clinton not hear about it, especially since Hillary was asked to sign the Letter of Inquiry in the weeks before he went on Letterman.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

to change the fact that Bill Clinton was the greatest president since JFK.

You can spew thread after thread, post after post, of this same old boring crap you love to paste about the Clintons, their books, the coverup wing of the Democratic Party, and all that other spin and innuendo you only get from some pissed off author or from some disgruntled poster from Dailykos but until you can back it up with a historical source, and not someone's bare words derived from gossip, you have got NOTHING...nothing but the few minions of yours who seem to suck it up like a blotter.

Bill Clinton was a great president, and his wife is currently top dog of the candidates....and that makes you very jealous, doesn't it.

I think you've actually brought up Hillary's dismal ratings here on DU since you started with this witch hunt of yours against her some time ago. Your constant spin and innuendo about her has actually backfired, and more and more people are sticking up for her. Hillary wants to thank you for that! lol

Heres what I see-

the implausibility of sheer conjecture rising to the level of empirical evidence necessary for prosecution/conviction.

Allegations based on inconclusive evidence:



The words in context highlighted in bold clearly demonstrate the allegations contained in blm's post lend themselves to mere speculation in the hypothetical. I've only exhibited the first 8 statements because the rest of her cut and paste is ostensibly prolific redundancy in the hypothetical throughout and a waste of the reader's time.

The allegations provided after a 7 yr investigation by Sen Kerry, are seriously lacking in the due diligence of fact finding supported by EVIDENCE based in fact necessary to qualify for a preliminary investigation to be successful. Especially noting the final recommendation of the report itself:






In effect, Kerry purportedly handed Clinton a loaded gun and said 'go getem'! Eventually, what the reader does quantify is..what Kerry says and what he means, are two different things.. Yes, he handed President Clinton a hypothetical connection of dots scantily clad in facts, noting every allegation is lacking in conclusive evidence. The real travesty is, Sen Kerry handed Clinton an empty gun and said 'go getem'...involving our Foreign Relations and banking systems in 12 countries quite possibly causing a world economic collapse.

This entire cut and paste isn't worth the paper it's written on and if I may say so myself, nothing more than an attempted dupe on the posters reading here, thinking blm has anything near a 'smoking gun' in her arsenal of smears against the Clintons...


.

.

During the 2004 election, there were a number of quotes from both the Kerry campaign and (one assumes because they were not flattering to Kerry) the Clintons about how Kerry was getting tons of great campaign advise from Bill Clinton 24/7. Every time Kerry's poll numbers went up, there was a story or an aside about how much great advise Kerry was getting from Clinton. Every time Kerry's poll numbers went down, there was a story or an aside about how concerned Bill Clinton was that Kerry wasn't following his advise.

Even after having a heart attack, Clinton was (according to the media) calling Kerry from his hospital bed to tell Kerry how to run his campaign:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,,1298827,00.html

If it hadn't been so serious, it would have been funny.

Great advice.

And how McCain rejected his offer?

Funny how you conveniently forget about that embarrassing moment in the lives of Democrats everywhere.

McCain is a huge supporter of Bush policies. McCain was involved in the Keating 5 doo dah. Keating 5/BCCI connection... Kerry endorsing Poppy Bush crimes by offering the Veep to McCain? Huh, Blm?

http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo05172004.html

offing his mouth like he had been offered a VP slot, when it just wasn't true. McCain also claimed in 2000 that Bush offered him the VP slot, too. So I don't think he's a particularly credible voice. Nice try, but you'll need another tact.

Sounds like one of those KOS/Sirota "revelations."

stirred it into a rumor for leverage with the Bush campaign, and finally admitted some time later that Kerry never offered him the spot.

Why are YOU so ill-informed about this? I hope you weren't participating in he spreading of that GOP rumor in 2004, were you?

Where is you evidence this happened this way?

You sound like the Deaniacs did in 2003 when Dean put out feelers for Clark to be his Veep. Complete denial.

.

KOS and Sirota don't count.

By Mike Stuckey
MSNBC.com Politics Editor
Updated: 1:06 a.m. CT March 17, 2004
One of the presidential nominating season's most unusual ideas was proposed again Tuesday, this time by one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress, when Sen. Joseph Biden advocated a "unity" ticket of Democratic Sen. John Kerry and Republican Sen. John McCain.

Biden made his comments on MSNBC TV's "Hardball" when moderator Chris Matthews asked him: "Do you think McCain is seriously — and I mean this professionally — flirting with the idea of accepting a second place on the ticket with John Kerry, and creating a fusion ticket to run against the president?"

Replied Biden: "I think that this is time for unity in this country, and maybe it is time to have a guy like John McCain — a Republican — on the ticket with a guy he does like. They do get along. And they don't have fundamental disagreements on major policies."

The red and the blue
When asked by Matthews if he would support such a ticket, Biden said, "I would. Yeah, if John Kerry said that's who he wanted, and McCain — I'd encourage McCain to say yes. I doubt whether John would do it. I doubt whether John McCain would do it. But, you know, we need some unity here, man. The red states and the blue states — we've got to have something to coalesce around here."

The notion that a lifelong Republican like McCain would join the Democratic ticket is widely dismissed by many Washington observers, but McCain himself fanned the flames when he said last week on an ABC News show that he would "entertain" joining Kerry on the Democratic ticket.
>>>>

"John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years," McCain said on "Good Morning America" on Wednesday. "Obviously I would entertain it."

Trial balloon deflated
But the Arizona senator's chief of staff, Mark Salter, shot the idea down a short time later, saying that he had McCain's approval to firmly announce that "Senator McCain will not be a candidate for vice president in 2004."

‘John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years. Obviously I would entertain it.’

— SEN. JOHN McCAIN
Arizona Republican
And despite his close relationship with Kerry, McCain himself had cast such an invitation as highly unlikely. "It's impossible to imagine the Democratic Party seeking a pro-life, free-trading, non-protectionist, deficit hawk," he said.
>>>>>>>>

Watch McCain dance around the subject in July, 2004:

SNOW: Well, you’re absolutely right though, it’s going to be fun to see. Now John Kerry, is it true that John Kerry asked you to be his vice president?

McCAIN: Uh, no. No, it was never offered.

SNOW: It was never offered. So, it may have been discussed elliptically, but never flat out request.

McCAIN: Never was an offer, no.

SNOW: When you had conversations, did you think it was a little weird that he’d be calling you, even in general terms about this sort of thing?

McCAIN: Well, he and I have been friends for a number of years because of our efforts on POWs and MIAs which was a very hot issue back in the early 90’s, a lot of people have forgotten about it, but it was a- and we worked together to try to resolve that issue and I appreciate the work that he did on it. And, so it’s not unusual for us to have conversations.

SNOW: Right. But, so- I want to just lay to rest once and for all: never approached you, never hinted that he wanted to talk to you about being vice president. All that kind of stuff was made up.

McCAIN: Well, I cannot attest to that. All I can tell you is my conversations with him were private conversations, but he never offered it.

for greater role in Bush campaign and commitments from Bush campaign people for his own future.

But when he goes to the BOTTOM LINE he admits there was no offer, but that part was downplayed by the MEDIA.

SNOW: It was never offered. So, it may have been discussed elliptically, but never flat out request.

McCAIN: Never was an offer, no. (McCain avoids the meat of the question: Was it discussed "elliptically?"

SNOW: When you had conversations, did you think it was a little weird that he’d be calling you, even in general terms about this sort of thing?

McCAIN: Well, he and I have been friends for a number of years ... (McCain confirms the subject was initiated by Kerry.)

Face it - Kerry wanted McCain.

Of course it's true that McCain and Kerry talked back then as everyone knew they had been friends since Kerry cared for McCain's emotional state during the Vietnam reconciliation mission. However, to extrapolate those talks and turn them into being offered the VP spot is PURE ROVIAN SPIN.

How many times does McCain have to deny it before you stop repeating RW talking points?

Why don't you search inside your soul and try to find grace worthy of the memory of Father Drinan, instead of spending all this time repeating Rove's lie?

and he floated the idea to the McCain people, just as thousands of sources suggest. However, McCain let the media know he'd never accept the offer from Kerry to be his running mate, so Kerry never made the offer official, for obvious reasons.

How embarrassing that any Democratic nominee would want a repuke for his running mate. Yuk!!

Please! Lets keep to the truth here.

later admitted it never happened.

Why are YOU believing and spreading a rumor spread by a GOP camp in your effort to hijack a thread because you can't answer the questions raised?

Every reputable news source I read said there was discussion between the two but that Kerry never "officially" made the offer.

Kind of like, "so, uh, Sen. McCain. If I were to, uh... suggest that maybe we be on the ticket together, hypothetically... how would you feel?"

You sound like the Deaniacs did in 2003 when Dean put out feelers for Clark to be his Veep. Complete denial.

It doesn't get anymore pathetic than that.



First of all, this is no rumor spread by any GOP camp. It's a fact derived from a Democratic nominee shamefully courting a Republican to join him on his VP ticket. Maybe you're having convenient memory problems, though.

Second of all, who are you to talk about someone hijacking someone elses threads? You're the hijacking pro of this forum. If you got a nickel for every thread you've ever hijacked by pasting your anti-Clinton propaganda in them, you'd be a multi millionaire.

.

I love how you cleverly change what I said from Kerry "wanted McCain" to Kerry "asked McCain". He WANTED him, not asked him. Nice try though!

Here:

http://www.counterpunch.org/nimmo05172004.html

because the McCain camp was enjoying free use of the rumor.

By Mike Stuckey
MSNBC.com Politics Editor
Updated: 1:06 a.m. CT March 17, 2004
One of the presidential nominating season's most unusual ideas was proposed again Tuesday, this time by one of the most powerful Democrats in Congress, when Sen. Joseph Biden advocated a "unity" ticket of Democratic Sen. John Kerry and Republican Sen. John McCain.

Biden made his comments on MSNBC TV's "Hardball" when moderator Chris Matthews asked him: "Do you think McCain is seriously — and I mean this professionally — flirting with the idea of accepting a second place on the ticket with John Kerry, and creating a fusion ticket to run against the president?"

Replied Biden: "I think that this is time for unity in this country, and maybe it is time to have a guy like John McCain — a Republican — on the ticket with a guy he does like. They do get along. And they don't have fundamental disagreements on major policies."

The red and the blue
When asked by Matthews if he would support such a ticket, Biden said, "I would. Yeah, if John Kerry said that's who he wanted, and McCain — I'd encourage McCain to say yes. I doubt whether John would do it. I doubt whether John McCain would do it. But, you know, we need some unity here, man. The red states and the blue states — we've got to have something to coalesce around here."

The notion that a lifelong Republican like McCain would join the Democratic ticket is widely dismissed by many Washington observers, but McCain himself fanned the flames when he said last week on an ABC News show that he would "entertain" joining Kerry on the Democratic ticket.
>>>>>>>

"John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years," McCain said on "Good Morning America" on Wednesday. "Obviously I would entertain it."


But the Arizona senator's chief of staff, Mark Salter, shot the idea down a short time later, saying that he had McCain's approval to firmly announce that "Senator McCain will not be a candidate for vice president in 2004."

‘John Kerry is a close friend of mine. We have been friends for years. Obviously I would entertain it.’

— SEN. JOHN McCAIN
Arizona Republican
And despite his close relationship with Kerry, McCain himself had cast such an invitation as highly unlikely. "It's impossible to imagine the Democratic Party seeking a pro-life, free-trading, non-protectionist, deficit hawk," he said.
>>>>>


"...McCain CAST SUCH AN INVITATION AS HIGHLY UNLIKELY..."

It's as simple as that. All they have to do is google Kerry in regards to McCain as his VP and the truth is right there in thousands of links.

did they?

June 12, 2004:

Democratic presidential candidate John F. Kerry has discussed the vice presidency with Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) on several occasions, the most recent in the past two weeks, informed sources said yesterday. But the conversations have gone nowhere because McCain believes such a bipartisan ticket would not work and could weaken the presidency, they said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34742-2004Jun11.html

From "progressive" Ted Rall on June 17, 2004:

Kerry, it seems, spent the last three months begging Republican John McCain to run as his vice president. He didn't ask officially (whatever that means) but he asked seven times. "I don't want to formally ask because I don't want to be formally rejected, but having said that, would you do it?" an aide who ran messages between the two senators quoted Kerry's approach to The New York Times. Each time, each of seven times, McCain's answer was the same: an unequivocal no.

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0617-13.htm

John Kerry, the presumptive Democratic nominee for president, has repeatedly and personally asked Senator John McCain, the independent-minded Arizona Republican, to consider being his running mate, but Mr. McCain has refused, people who have spoken to both men said Friday.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/12/politics/campaign/12MCCA.html?ex=1402372800&en=22de10fcb50e67f3&ei=5007&partner=USERLAND

Just because stupid Biden thought it would be a good idea and mentioned it once to McCain, McCain's camp uses Biden's suggestion to stir up rumors, and people like you are trying to INSIST it happened as a way to attack Kerry.

It NEVER HAPPENED.

Stop validating a RW lie - the Clintons never trashed the White House, did they? NO. But Bush's camp said so to cause a backlash.

... and pushed by the Kerry camp.

the idea casually to McCain.

Why you insist that "Kerry asked McCain to be his VP" lie actually happened is the mystery.

BOTH MEN SAID NO OFFER WAS MADE.

And google proves that Clintons trashed the WH.

And EVERY news outlet is reporting it as fact and did so for 9 months.

Should I start posting around the internet that it happened, even though it never happened?

get Kerry to consider McCain and Kerry dismissed it. It was never going to happen.



In Chasing Ghosts: A Soldier's Fight for America from Baghdad to Washington, veteran, author and activist Paul Rieckhoff describes a small, closed-door meeting between Iraq vets and John Kerry in Minneapolis in the summer of 2004 -- and the disconnect that followed.

RAW STORY has been granted permission to re-print the following excerpt:

#

At one point Kerry asked us all who we thought he should choose as his running mate. A few in the room mentioned John McCain. Rumors had circulated in the press for weeks about secret meetings between Kerry and McCain. Getting McCain to abandon Bush to run as Kerry's VP would change history. Together they could beat Bush. But Kerry made it clear the McCain option was not on the table.
>>>>>

.

Just in memory of a good Democratic leader who passed away yesterday - Father Robert Drinan, please refrain from spreading RW lies about the man he mentored for over 4 decades, at least for one day while his friends are in mourning?

are usually doing it as a coverup for the skeletons in their own closets.

How feeble it is that when you run out of all options to back up your propaganda, you accuse legitimate posters of being RW. Very very weak.

But they sure batted the idea around...

because McCain shunned Kerry before the formal offer was ever made, saving Kerry from further embarrassment. I wonder how Edwards felt about playing second fiddle to McCain.

and Kerry dismissed it TOTALLY. Reickhoff even said they were mad at Kerry for that.

intentions here.

Complete lie based on a foolish remark from Joe Biden. COMPLETE LIE.

Dowd wrote a column about Hillary's 'bridal registry' that exaggerated the circumstances of that matter, and so people developed a LIE around Dowd's commentary.

This is exactly what you are doing here. DISGUSTING.

who are playing political games to control a storyline.

There were plenty of 'sources' who said Clintons trashed the WH. Completely untrue.

There were plenty of 'sources' who said Hillary was a lesbian. Completely untrue.

Do you really want to continue to VALIDATE the RW lies because they were aimed at your preferred Dem target?

what the facts say, you enjoy spreading the rumor that became a RW LIE.

Why?

To keep attacking Kerry because you are thrilled with your newfound alliance with the corporate media.

Keep kicking Kerry. Keep it up. Nixon, Reagan, Bush, Bush2 all appreciate your efforts.

Father Robert Drinan died yesterday. He was Kerry's mentor for over 4 decades. You should concern yourself with WHO you please when you become a slave to spreading RW lies.

Wonder who MOST people will believe.

with an ounce of integrity.

But you know that, and don't care as long as you can spread a RW lie to fulfill your mission.

and you know it, just as all the Democrats knew it who raised their eyebrows at the very notion of it when it was all happening in 2004. Thank god McCain shunned Kerry...just so the formal offer could never take place. How embarrassing that would've been to have a repuke like McCain on our ticket as the VP.

Yuk.

the argument. I've noticed this time and time again how after you're out of all options, you accuse posters of "spreading RW lies".

Maybe you should learn to admit when you're wrong once in a while instead of insulting the intelligence of anyone who disagrees with all your myths you paste with such ease on this forum.

The only one spreading MYTHS is you.

If what I post is a myth, then why does the HISTORIC RECORD back it up?

Thanks for getting sloppy.

RW lie spreaders do have some useful purpose.

Rw lie spreaders can be useful.

.

from a dropped pronoun...to a dropped Republican VP....to drop dead lies exposed under the light of day!

Funny how you all manage to avoid the truths in the original posting by using RW lies to hijack the thread.

part of your knowledgeable modus operandi...

But I do appreciate that you all are kicking this thread so others may read the truths in my original post.

from your little team does have its bright spots.

Do you see blm entering any evidence supporting her argument Kerry never asked McCain to be his VP?
A simple denial from Kerry in print is what were looking for.

Has she provided any links stating Kerry never asked McCain to consider the VP slot.

Wyldwolf provided a transcript of the McCain interview with Snow where it shows indeed Kerry was considering McCain for his VP spot..

Cocky, heck no... if you think it's too early for that, than YOU provide the link showing Kerry denied asking McCain to be his VP.

You are welcome to find comfort in the RW lies that you cling to.

Thanks for keeping my thread kicked.

Nevertheless, subjectively, Kerry admits McCain was truly under consideration for his VP slot. And McCain said: "NO"!

Show a denial linked and in print by Kerry this event never took place.

.

Tearing down Dean first, then Kerry.

And they're still trying to tear down both.

Please, she me any proof at all that shows the Clintons trying to "tear Kerry down" in '04.

once he was out of office. Maybe he just wanted to put the White House, the impeachment, the Barr investigation, the constant battles with a republican congress behind him for awhile.

Maybe he wanted to do some good:

snip>…by joining forces, Bush, 81, and Clinton, 59, have done remarkable and lasting work in the past year. After teaming together to lead the U.S. response to the 2004 tsunami in the Indian Ocean, they suited up again last fall to raise money to help victims of Hurricane Katrina. They put their dormant fund-raising networks on high alert and in eight months have collected more than $120 million for Gulf Coast colleges and universities, churches, and for use by the Governors of Alabama, Mississippi and Louisiana. Next week the two men plan to deliver a joint commencement address to the graduating class at Tulane and announce their final $30 million in grants.

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1187350,00.html

Other than Harry Truman, I don't recall any modern day Presidents publically criticizing sitting Presidents.

over Lamont.