Sen. Obama for President

Senator Barack Obama is remarkably qualified for the office of President of the United States of America.

He graduated from Columbia University. He earned his JD from Harvard and he taught at the University of Chicago (the Finest school that most of us don't know about).

He served with distinction in the Illinois State legislature. He served proudly and he did a wonderful job.

He ran a succesful Senatorial campaign that nobody thought he could win. He won. Easily.

He is everything that is good about our country. He is decent, and he seems to be kind.

And I will NEVER vote for him.

Senator Obama does not believe that gays have the right to Marry each other. He doesn't believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as straight people. He is remarkably bright and well educated (much, MUCH moreso than I am), yet he is VERY wrong.

I am a 31 year old married, suburban, white man. I have been VERY lucky. But I know what's right. Gay people are no different from me. No better, no worse.

Senator Obama should realize that.

The fact that he doesn't makes it easy for me to never vote for him.

Gobama.

I would imagine he would have the right as the president to review laws/decisions etc. making whatever changes he deems valid and necessary and for the good of the people.

I'll never vote for Hillary Clinton because of her stance on the Iraq war despite the fact that I think she's otherwise an extremely well-qualified candidate.

Does anyone know which of the 2008 Dem candidates DO support gay marriage? I know Kucinich does, and I thought John Edwards does, but I'm not sure.

Gots a lot of free republican critters here. Don't blame them. They got nothing going for their side.

And my response was perfectly legitimate. And for your information, I'm not a "free republican critter", just a pacifist queer socialist boy who's passionate about what I believe in.

how some DUer will NOT vote for Democratic candidate X?

Does Ralph Nader run DU or something?

They ain't got nobody.

you think I'm a Freeper.

Let's debate...

I could care less. The Freepers and trolls are running wild. They are desperate.

Honestly?

Boot me then.

What is wrong about my point?

PLEASE PM me if you think I'm faking. I made a genuine point and all of the sudden I'm the goddam DU Pariah. I swear I don't get what the hell is going on. PLEASE PM or call me.

and I gave you several opportunities to reasonably disagree with my points.

You refused.

Welcome to Ignore.

Any truth to that? :shrug:

It's probably speculation but I'll just ask anyways.

and will certainly be a 2008 VP possiblity, but I have never heard about her making a run for P.

I think she would be a good choice for vp. :)

He can join the world like never before.

I dream of a Hillary/Obama ticket.

Can't wait for your next thread denouncing Obama because he's gonna take away your 2nd amendment rights. Don't worry, I'll be right here waiting to debunk that one too.



Floor Statement of Senator Barack Obama on the Federal Marriage Amendment
Monday, June 5, 2006

Today, we take up the valuable time of the U.S. Senate with a proposed amendment to our Constitution that has absolutely no chance of passing.

We do this, allegedly, in an attempt to uphold the institution of marriage in this country. We do this despite the fact that for over two hundred years, Americans have been defining and defending marriage on the state and local level without any help from the U.S. Constitution at all.

And yet, we're here anyway because it's an election year - because the party in power has decided that the best way to get voters to the polls is not by talking about Iraq or health care or energy or education, but about a constitutional ban on same-sex marriage that they have no chance of passing.

Now, I realize that for some Americans, this is an important issue. And I should say that personally, I do believe that marriage is between a man and a woman.

But let's be honest. That's not what this debate is about. Not at this time.

This debate is an attempt to break a consensus that is quietly being forged in this country. It's a consensus between Democrats and Republicans, liberals and conservatives, Red States and Blue States, that it's time for new leadership in this country - leadership that will stop dividing us, stop disappointing us, and start addressing the problems facing most Americans.

It's a consensus between a majority of Americans who say, "You know what, maybe some of us are comfortable with gay marriage right now and some of us are not. But most of us do believe that gay couples should be able to visit each other in the hospital and share health care benefits; most of us do believe that they should be treated with dignity and have their privacy respected by the federal government."

And we all know that if this amendment were to pass, it would close the door on much of this - because we know that when similar amendments passed in places like Ohio and Michigan and Utah, domestic partnership benefits were taken away from gay couples.

This is not what the majority of the American people want. And this is not about trying to build consensus in this country; it's not about trying to bring people together.

This is about winning an election. That's why the issue was last raised in July of 2004, and that's why we haven't heard about it again until now. And while this is supposedly a measure that the other party raised to appeal to some of its core supporters, I don't know how happy I'd be if my party only talked about an issue I cared about right around election time - especially if they knew it had no chance of passing.

I agree with most Americans, with Democrats and Republicans, with Vice President Cheney, with over 2,000 religious leaders of all different beliefs, that decisions about marriage, as they always have, should be left to the states.

Today, we should take this amendment only for what it is - a political ploy designed to rally a few supporters and draw the country's attention away from this leadership's past failures and America's future challenges.

There is plenty of work to be done in this country. There are millions without health care and skyrocketing gas prices and children in crumbling schools and thousands of young Americans risking their lives in Iraq.

So don't tell me that this is the best use of our time. Don't tell me that this is what people want to see talked about on TV and in the newspapers all day. We wonder why the American people have such a low opinion of Washington these days. This is why.

We are better than this. And we certainly owe the American people more than this. I know that this amendment will fail, and when it does, I hope we can start discussing issues and offering proposals that will actually improve the lives of most Americans.

"Now, I realize that for some Americans, this is an important issue. And I should say that personally, I do believe that marriage is between a man and a woman."
In his very own words.

I swear to God I feel attacked. I'm not trying to trample on anyone's parade and I love the DU. I live here and this place has saved me. I wrote what I thought was a meaningful post that I WILL stand behind. I have always been very socially liberal but I have changed my mind dramatically because I recently found out that my brother is Transgender (sp?).

This means more to me than you will ever know. If this place bans me for a well thought out and well-reasoned post, than I am probably better off without it.

PLEASE if you don't trust me, PM me. This is retarded how much I'm defending myself. The last thing I wanted was for this to raise a big stink.

which, as far as I can tell includes the general election.

You are telling a bunch of Democrats on DEMOCRATICunderground that you will enthusiastically pass up the opportunity to vote against a Republican. What did you expect, a bunch of hugs?

You actually will find plenty of people here who would like to withhold their vote for Dem candidate X and potentially punish America with 4 years of McCain or Jeb or Newt. But you shouldn't be surprised that you irrate many peopleas well.

Obama gets the Democratic nomination? I swear to the world that all I'm saying is that I hope that Senator Obama doesn't get the Democratic nomination.

I discovered tonight, after a long talk with my wife (who has been my rock and who has helped me to realize how strong I need to be to support my transgndered brother) that I am a wedge voter. I KNOW I'm wrong! The conservatives have abortions, but I have this and god damn it I'm ready to fight for it.

I swear to Christ, all this post was meant to do was to illustrate that I am willing to fight for Gay Rights. I never expected to be assaulted by the Obama army. I love democratic ideals and I am SO proud to be a democrat.

... and I'm SURE I'm right here.

PLEASE PM me. I swear I'm not a freeper and I'll give you my phone number.

That's what you said. If he is nominated, are you going to vote for him, or are you going to pass up the opportunity to defeat the Republican nominee?

You are entitled to your opinion, but perhaps you should clarify that.

and I thank you for it.

The last 6 years have been hell for me, but I will not vote for ANY candidate that doesn't support Gay Marriage. The cost isn't important to me.

I love the notion of cutting off my nose to spite my face ... I have a huge nose to begin with.

Also, I am much more Malcolm X than MLK. The Democratic Party needs fighters. I mean REAL tooth-and-nail fighters.

I want to be one of them, and Gay Marriage is where I plan on taking my stand.

Soooo... why are you surprised that people on DEMOCRATICunderground attack you for wanting to subject America to another Republican president?

You are free to not vote for Obama. You are free to write in George W. Bush if you want. You're comfortable passing up the opportunity to save America from President McCain/Gingrich/etc. Why are you suprised that bothers some DUers?

A refusal to vote for Obama is a vote for G-Dub.

...and Iraq was complicit in 9/11.

Spurious logic is remarkably handy but I'd ask you not to use it.

I do not support another Republican presidency, nor do I support a Democratic presidency that refuses to recognizes the rights of all people to be free.

It's easy to take stands. You just have to look and see where your principles are.

Not voting for Obama is missing the opportunity to defeat the Republican. That's a fact. Logic is handy and I do like to use it. You are free to not use logic if that is your preference. Lots of people like to go with the gut, but I am not one of them.

And yes, I stand by my principles. By no means am I ever going to miss the opportunity to save America from another Republican President. As long as the Democratic nominee is better than the Republican one (Obama vs. McCain? what a no brainer that is) I will stand by my principles and vote for the better candidate. Bush has put us on a danger path, and I couldn't live with myself if I passed up an opportunity to give us a better President who might be able to get us back on track.

Barack Obama and Gay Rights in Illinois: Barack Obama supported gay rights during his Illinois Senate tenure. He sponsored legislation in Illinois that would ban discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation.

Barack Obama in the United States Senate: Every two years the Human Rights Campaign, the largest national gay and lesbian organization, issues a scorecard for members of the Senate based on their sponsorship and voting on key issues of importance to gay and lesbian citizens. Barack Obama scored 89 out of 100% in the 2006 scorecard. Here's how HRC rated Barack Obama:

Federal Marriage Amendment: Barack Obama voted against the Federal Marriage Amendment (S.J. Res. 1) which would have defined marriage as between a man and a woman and included language which could have prevented recognition of civil unions and domestic partnership benefits. The amendment failed by a vote of 49-48.
Confirmation of Judge William Pryor : HRC opposed the confirmation of Judge William Pryor to Eleventh Circuit Court of Appeals because of his opposition to equal rights for gays and lesbians. Barack Ombama voted against Pryor's nomination, but Pryor was nominated in June 2005.
Judge Samuel Alito Confirmation : HRC opposed the nomination of Samuel Alito to the United States Supreme Court and so did Barack Obama. In fact, Obama supported a filibuster to try and block a vote on his nomination. "I will be supporting the filibuster because I think Judge Alito, in fact, is somebody who is contrary to core American values, not just liberal values," Obama said. "When you look at his decisions - in particular, during times of war - we need a court that is independent and is going to provide some check on the executive branch." However, Alito was confirmed.
Co-Sponoring Legislation: Barack Obama, in line with HRC, co-sponsored legislation to bring Medicaid coverage to low-income, HIV-positive Americans and the Local Law Enforcement Enhancement Act which would expand federal jurisdiction to reach serious, violent hate crimes perpetrated because of the “actual or perceived race, color, religion, national origin, sexual orientation or disability” of the victim. He did not co-sponsor Uniting American Families Act that would amend the Immigration and Nationality Act to provide same-sex partners of U.S. citizens the same immigration benefits legal spouses of U.S. residents enjoy.
Barack Obama and Gay Marriage: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."
He said he would support civil unions between gay and lesbian couples, as well as letting individual states determine if marriage between gay and lesbian couples should be legalized.

"Giving them a set of basic rights would allow them to experience their relationship and live their lives in a way that doesn't cause discrimination," Obama said. "I think it is the right balance to strike in this society."

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm

you are effin awesome

thank you :)

:toast:

The fact of the matter is that Barack Obama does not support same-sex marriage. And while you can spin that however you want to by noting his opposition to the Federal Marriage Amendment, "basic" rights aren't the same as "equal" rights. As noted in the Advocate:



Same-sex marriage is a major issue, and it is definitely a legitimate reason for opposing a candidate that doesn't support it.

THANK YOU SO MUCH.

That is ALL I was trying to say.

Obama is for civil unions and if you read my posts he sponsored legislation relating to discrimination against gay people.

I'm not going to to worry about your vote if it's based on Obama's subjective feelings about the word "marriage."

I strongly feel your the one missing out here if you get lost from the big picture over this term. But go nuts. Launch a daily attack on him because he doesn't support the WORD gay marriage. Just don't try and convince people that he's the enemy to those who care about gay rights. That's just pure bullshit and you know it.

Screw your puritanical loyalty to words. I care about actions and the big picture.

Simple question.

You are spreading misinformation about Obama and I absolutely resent it.

I'm not playing your bullshit game.

You've already got people on this thread taking your word for it.

You intentionally are using a word to try and make Obama look like he's the enemy to homosexuals when in fact he has written anti-discrimination legislation and he was against the federal marriage amendment act. Screw you, you disrupter. Shame on you.

It's a simple question!!

Will Obama fight for the right for Homosexuals to marry?

HE WILL NOT!

Do not muddy the waters to win some argument. I don't think he's an enemy of the gay community (sp?), but he WILL NOT support Gay Marriage. He said it himself.

I am not playing any games. I understand that you like your candidate. I like Wesley Clark. I can also objectively debate every position Mr. Clark holds.

Can you objectively debate all of Obama's position is a meaningful way? I'd be shocked if you could.

Let the Republican win instead. There's no difference between the parties anyway, as we all know.

:sarcasm:

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Lincoln's views on slavery evolved over time. He did not begin as the Great Emancipator. He was a fundamentally compassionate man. His stance on slavery evolved as he became more aware of the conflict between his compassionate nature and the horror of slavery. Obama appears to be a compassionate man. He simply has not yet understood the suffering that the inability to marry inflicts on gays and lesbians. I believe he has the capacity to learn to understand it.

Bush and many of the right wingers just do not have compassion. They are incapable of learning to understand why marriage is such an important right even for gays and lesbians. They cannot imagine how painful it must be to stand outside a hospital door with no right to enter unless a family member allows it while the person you love and with whom you have shared your life for thirty years is dying.

You're taking the OP's word for it. It's not true.

Please, read my other posts.

Yes or No?

STOP BEING POLITICAL AND ANSWER THE QUESTION!

He is a very good candidate and I understand why you like him, but he does not want homosexuals to have the rights of matrimony.

That is OBJECTIVELY provable. I would never vote for a Republican. I am PROUD of that.

I will also NEVER vote for a Democrat that doesn't support Gay Marriage.

I am just as proud of that.

I'm not going to get hung up on the word "marriage." And if you think about it from a political perspective Obama is being cautious about using the word "marriage" simply because he's not a complete retard who wants to commit political suicide. You DO realize that this whole gay marriage thing is an issue because the GOP made it an issue, right???? It's not because the U.S. Democrats proposed legislation that Gays ought to have the right to "marriage." Unlike you, Obama understands that in states like mine, semantics could cost him the election. Do a search on my username. I posted on this site that people in my state literally told me they weren't going to vote for John Kerry because "he loves queers." WTF?? We're dealing with complete imbeciles here. But it is what it is and your ideological purity test isn't going to help anything because you truly are out of touch. I live in one of the states that used gay marriage to get out the vote and let me tell you that it passed by 70-80%. That's sick. I was appalled and disgusted about it.

I'm probably wasting my time explaining this to you.

I just wish people like you would think about the big picture before you start threads villifying Obama and spreading information that makes it appear as though he's against gay rights. Because your accusations DO resonate and stick with some people and frankly it stinks.

And thanks for your phone number but I have no interest in calling you to argue about this. My interest in discussing this with you lies purely in the context of your using this public forum to spread misinformation about Obama.

Name ONE thing I said that was factually dishonest.

Learn to think for yourself. I am muddying no waters.

You refuse to debate me on any real level. I NEVER said that Senator Obama was an enemy of homosexuals, but I can OBJECTIVELY prove that he opposes the right for gays to wed.

If he gets the notmination I will stay home on Election Day. I will do so proudly knowing that I was true to myself, my principals, and MUCH more importantly, my family.

I'd love to see you "objectively prove that he opposes the right for gays to wed."

Considering that I already posted ON YOUR THREAD RIGHT HERE what his words were. What he personally and subjectively feels about the *word* marriage doesn't mean he opposes people from having the right to get married. He said that!!!

Good lord INFORM YOURSELF and quit DIS-INFORMING other people. Read what Obama said for fucks sake.

Edited to put quotation marks around a direct quote.

That's not mine (as much as I'd love to take credit for it).

I am sure I dislike you a great deal.

P.S - As far as "Objectively" proving that he opposes same sex weddings, I hope this suffices
"I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

Now you changed your offer. What you told me was that you would "objectively prove that he opposes the right for gays to wed."

You didn't do that because you couldn't do it.

But you can try again if you want. Not that it isn't totally obvious by now that you're not interested in integrity or the Democratic party at all so I won't hold my breath waiting for you to support your accusation with facts or anything.

P.S. Sorry you dislike me a great deal. Believe me, it's nothing personal. If you spread untrue information about a Democratic candidate you'll get called on it by me once I check the accuracy of the information your spreading. You can put me and whoever else you want on ignore but there are others here who care about the facts and will call you on it eventually.

With Edwards and Clinton, it's their pro-war vote and questionable Iran statements.

Obama is very wrong on that but I want to hear more about "universal health care". Is this true universal health care or the Mitt Romney style?

Will he bring our troops home ASAP? I lean towards yes in that area.

Edit: It looks like I've been bamboozled by faulty information.

Why are you here?

The DU should be the last place for reasonable debate. /sarcasm/

I love the fallacy that, because I won't vote for Obama means that I definitely will vote for Sam Brownback.

LET'S MAKE IT A PACT TO VOTE FOR THE LESSER OFK TWO EVILS! That should last us a while anyways.

I didn't say that you would vote for Sam Brownback or any Republican candidate. I actually invited you to counter my statement that you aren't going to vote for a Democratic candidate and explain why you are posting on this issue. You got very defensive as if your intentions were not good ones.

So please tell me if Barack Obama is out, who are you voting for? More importantly, who should I be voting for if I have similar views as you do?

I would vote for Wesley Clark (or Dennis Kucinich).

I have been, IMO, remarkably consistant in this thread. That's the awesome thing about having principles rather than goals.

Better than Now is no standard. Expect execellence or you won't get it.

I was wrong about Clark's stance and I will proudly not vote for him.

I am sorry for my ignorance.

I am also *very* distressed with his stance on gay rights. Likewise his political philosophy that one must *get along* with the theocratic asshats in the republic party.

He's wrong about all of these things.

He'll not have my vote... Maybe not ever. Not even if he gets the nomination. I just can't vote for any person with those stands.

Can't wait.

how many DIRECT quotes do I have to use?

Fine. Fuck it. Here are the links ..


Barack Obama and Gay Marriage: Although Barack Obama has said that he supports civil unions, he is against gay marriage. In an interview with the Chicago Daily Tribune, Obama said, "I'm a Christian. And so, although I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views on this issue, I do believe that tradition, and my religious beliefs say that marriage is something sanctified between a man and a woman."

http://lesbianlife.about.com/od/lesbianactivism/p/BarackObama.htm (lesbianlife.com - I'm guessing it's a neocon sorta thing)

Barack Obama on Civil Rights
Click here for 12 full quotes on Civil Rights OR background on Civil Rights.
Opposes gay marriage; supports civil union & gay equality. (Oct 2006)

http://www.issues2000.org/Senate/Barack_Obama.htm

We could do this all day. Please tell me when enough is enough.

To close, I say again, separate but equal will NEVER be equal.

Civil Unions are the coward's way out. If you think that Civil Unions are fair, I don't think you have a clue what it means to be gay or transgendered.

I know I have been rude in this thread, but please believe me that I meant to be nothing but sincere and kind with that last sentence. There are people worth fighting for.

I intend to.

God bless.

Obama supports gay rights. He's not going to stand in the way of gay marriage. If you would read his positions, you would see that.

But informing yourself or anybody else (with the truth) is not a part of your agenda here. You're here to spread the doo-doo all over hoping that some of it sticks.

I 100% admit to being wrong about Gen. Clark's stance on gay marriage. I blew it. I was wrong and I totally own it.

Please answer one simple question, though. I swear that there are no tricks and no traps.

If Barack Obama is elected President of the US, will homosexuals be allowed to marry?

(One sipulation ... you are not allowed to use the word 'civil' in your response).

I would pretty much bet my house that if a bill that federally mandates states to give gay couples marriage licenses passes through both houses of congress and lands on President Obama's desk, he'll sign it.

I'm not willing to bash my head against the wall with you anymore. You like Obama and I respect your passion.

It's a good thing.

You must know, though, that a) he will do nothing to promote Gay Marriage, and b) Congress will pass no such law without dramatic support from the President.

Obama is a great candidate. I swear on my soul that I really liked him before I came to my realization this evening.

I also recognize that I have become a wedge voter. I have become what I despise and I know I am now no different than those who vote for candidates because they oppose abortion or stem-cell research.

In my own way, I've become a liberal neo-con (the irony is endlessly funny to me if nobody else).

In closing, I apologize for my actions this evening. I was brash, rude and offensive and I apologize. I sincerely wish God's blessings on you and your family.

My last statement, though, if I've earned one (and I'm not sure I have) is that homosexuals deserve the same rights you and I do. They deserve the chance at equal happiness, amd they deserve that chance without compromise, without apology and without shame.

I won't stop fighting until they get it, and I believe in my heart of hearts that Barack Obama will do nothing to provide it. I also believe in my heart that you agree with me.

All good things,
Brian.

I'll answer, and I have already.

But why do you care who I support?

I care because I want to know which potential Democratic presidential candidates are for gay marriage. I was under the impression that all of them, (including Clark actually), were against gay marriage. Based on your unwillingness to support Obama only because of his stance on gay marriage, it seems like this is THEE most important issue to you. I was also curious as to why you were only out to get Obama as opposed to Edwards, Clinton, etc. I've never read that Clark was for anything past civil unions so your support for him is a little baffling, but I guess you are a man of Huey Long: "The time has come for all good men to rise above principle".

I admit, I did some research and I was totally wrong about Wes Clark's stance on Gay Marriage. I sincerely thought he supported the notion that all men were created equal but I am demonstrably wrong on that count.

I will not vote for him, either.

I apologize for my ignorance about this one candidate's stance on the issue I hold most dear.

(Actually, I suspect you probably would.)

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Clinton and Edwards's stance on this issue are even worse. What Obama said is that he will not let the right use this issue as a dividing issue. What is the problem with that, exactly?

Should he run on this issue and forget everything else? I am not sure what your problem is, except trolling, may be. I think gay marriage should be a right, but, once again, are you ready to let the right frighten people with this issue and win the election, or do you want a candidate who is not pressing the issue, but will assure that gay people have the same right as us.

BTW, would you love your wife more if your relationship was called civil union rather than marriage? If yes, your wife should worry.

I will not vote for a candidate that doesn't believe that all men are created equal. If there is not a candidate on the ballot that supports gay marriage, I will not vote.

And you asked about my love for my wife, as well. The awesome thing is that I had the choice and opportunity to marry her. Of course my love for her would be the same as it is no matter what our legal relationship is classified as, but it is vitally important that we have that choice.

P.S. and as I said in other posts, yes, I am a troll. You and I disagree about something so clearly I am just an agitator.

Let's make life as simple as possible by putting people in the box that is most convenient for us.

...For obvious reasons.

I would love if I had the same opportunities as straight men to get married to whomever I pleased, man or woman. And I understand America is slowly turning the page to confront this issue, and this will take many years and many tears to resolve. I look back at the many times in our history we were wrong, with the African Americans and with womens rights, and I hope someday America can start the healing and let all be equal. Equality is very important to me. I don't want special treatment, I just want the fair shake everyone else gets.

To me, voting for President is about looking at the issues and judging based on whats important to me. I look back at 2004, and I think about how passionate I was for supporting Senator John Kerry. But truth be told, I disagreed with his stance on gay rights and I believed while it was good he was at least for civil unions, I wish he were for gay marriages as well. But looking back, I looked at the big picture. Our country was crumbling, the healthcare system was failing, Americas image around the world was of a nation hated by all, and Bush had gotten us into a tragic and bloody war.

I guess I weighed the options, and realized gay rights is VERY important to me. But so is having a President that can change America for the better on other issues like the economy, healthcare, and the war in Iraq. I apply the same thing to the candidates in 2008. I will support whom I think is right, even if they don't believe in gay marriages. I look at the big picture, and look at whose qualified to lead our nation. And as long as they don't take away my right to love whomever I want, and believe at least in civil unions and aren't homophobic...I look beyond this issue.

I understand the concern, and it's one I share. But I think for candidates like Senator Obama, his vision for America is absolutely wonderful and I have to look at the big picture and not just a single issue where Obama at least is respectful of me and my rights.

Flame-Bait.