Stop the cheerleading: Let's start comparing candidates on the issues - Kucinich vs. Clinton: Choice

Who do you trust?

Hillary...





Consistent high marks with NARAL and Pro-Choice America...consistent zeros from "National Right to Life Committee" throughout her entire public life...




Kucinich...


Flip...




Flop...just as he's getting ready to run for President...




And his explanation...one that only seems to be accepted for Kucinich



http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0223-05.htm

Other than that, I'll stick with DK.

And it is the issue that has kept me from supporting him all along. But I will also never support Hillary unless I have to hold my nose to do it.

it's nice to see an actual position that Clinton has taken. and yes, I prefer her position on this issue.

i look forward to your analysis of REAL ISSUES in the future.

btw, it would be great to have some real input on the "sister" thread.

I imagine it will a big surprise for many to find out that a women's right to choose is not a "real issue"..."

the fact that i called for your analysis of "Real Issues" in the future does not mean I don't consider this thread to be a "real issue". I do.

my comment was an expression of surprise that this is not just another "rah rah" cheerleading thread.

And I apologize...

I have posted on the other thread as you requested!

appreciate the apology and your response in the other thread.

see my response to your response.

Yes, as Kucinich has stated, his opinion has evolved on this serious issue.

I certainly am not a single issue voter, but I'd agree more on his opinion on the Patriot Act and many other issues...flag burning being considered a federal crime certainly makes up my mind when it comes to trusting someone with our Constitution.

In 1996, before flipping as he did on abortion...

Hillary has consistently voted against such amendments!!!

http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2005/roll296.xml

Kucinich's vote in 2005...as for him, he is not what I consider even a viable candidate...but I appreciate the dialogue he brings. So he's flipped on some issues...big deal...

As for Mrs. Clinton's intellectually dishonest spin on making flag burning a federal crime while not wanting a flag burning amendment, that certainly isn't anything to worry about in 2008...

:sarcasm:

She wanted it to be a federal crime to burn a flag with the intention to intimidate...a measure she co-sponsored with Sen. Bennett of Utah...as a way to head off an amendment which seemed destined for passage...

Both her and Bennett voted against the amendment, which lost by 1 vote I believe...

So no, I am not worried

I'll spare you...

As for making flag burning a federal crime to be intimidating, that certainly is something the ACLU is concerned about... spin on, brother...

On the list of what the American people are concerned about...where this comes in...?

the fact is, Hillary Clinton has ALWAYS been opposed to an amendment banning flag desecration...a claim Dennis Kucinich cannot make...

Why do WE keep playing right into the hands of the RW...they have had how many years to reverse RvW and have done NOTHING so far, so what in the world makes you think that with a Dem controlled congress for the next two years (leading up to the 08 elections) this should even be an issue?

Get over your ONE issue mind set and help make the world a better place by supporting WELL ROUNDED candidates instead of the knee-jerk polar opposite of James Dobson!!!!

If a person is morally uncomfortable with eating animals, even in vitro (vegans don't eat eggs) then it really should follow that they are also opposed to abortions. My respect for DK actually increased when I heard that.

edit: (though I eat eggs and am pro-choice. It just shows integrity and that he has thought out his beliefs)

Because he completely flipped sides right before running for President...

Isn't he open to the same charge of pandering that all politicians are subject to?

I misread one of the later paragraphs. My respect for DK has now returned to its previous level that it was at 3 minutes ago :)

This comparison might be interesting. But it's like comparing a local mom-and-pop diner to McDonald's...just because they both sell burgers doesn't mean McDonald's has anything to fear from them.

I'm not really sure why this series of threads was brought up...but yunno...

And almost everybody who supports him knows that he won't win the nomination. If he wants to run so that he can talk about issues that's fine. But comparing him to Hillary is pointless considering that she could possibly be the nominee and he will definitely not be the nominee.

Clinton has never voted for nor advocated a constitutional amendment banning flag burning.

I happen to believe, after hearing him explain it, that his switch was not politically based but simply a change in his thinking that took place over a period of time. DK's positives far outweigh this one (imaginary) negative. In the overall pcture Dennis represents my views more than Hillary ever could.

While this issue tends to become abottom line issue for many voters, this single position, and 'flip-flop' as you point out, has a degree of less importance to me on the issues that are of greater importance to me personally.

I am sure that this will provide more than enough ammunition to brand me as being pro-life, but I trust that we are able to 'debate the issues' rather turn this into the typical GDP pile on.

Why have a Republican House and Senate never even offered one vote proposing a Constitutional Amendment banning abortion? If the issue were truly important to them as anything but a wedge issue, they would have. The truth is that Republicans have hidden from an honest up or down vote on abortion and will never allow one to take place in the Congress. Instead, they will continue fooling well-intentioned voters who feel strongly about abortion that they "feel their pain," when clearly they do not. Even if the Supreme Court were to do the unlikely and return abortion to the states, it would merely mean that the rich could travel to blue states for abortion, while the poor would have less access to terminating their pregnancies.

The fact is that most Americans, including myself, are uncomfortable with abortions and feel there are too many of them. At the same time, the vast majority of Americans recognize that there are circumstances in which a woman and her doctor should be allowed to make this most difficult decision without government intervention. To return to the days when woman could self-abort without penalty, but to imprison doctors who would help them, seems senseless, especially recognizing that a new abortion law would likely become known as "The Abortions for the Rich-Only Bill."

I have a plan to reduce abortions by encouraging family planning, including abstinence training, combined with a full economic and health care plan that would clearly alleviate the number of abortions. Voters have a choice: Choose Republican rhetoric that will never allow the issue to come to a vote or a real plan to reduce the number of abortions with a program of economic justice. Factually, all the Republican rhetoric and phony issues surrounding abortion have never directly addressed the legality of abortion and have had no or negligible impact on the number of abortions.

___

I will never personally know the pain of having to make a decision on a birth. I have seen the pain it caused in my friend Sara. But, in her situation at the time a child would have been an impossibility. It would have been a horrible environment for a child. Another of my friends, faced with a similar decision, decided to find a family to adopt her baby before it was born. This was a emotionally wrenching process for her. She at one time changed her mind and decided to keep the baby. In the end she ended up giving up the child for adoption. Neither of these cases involved rape or incest or anything horrible like that, indeed it was by their admission their fault. They had messed up. I don't think less of them for this, but I wish they never had to make the decision in the first place.

Safe and legal abortions should be available.

We should work to make them more rare as Dennis says above.

Sex should be discussed in a frank manner starting in sixth grade and continuing on from then. It should not be deionized but revered. Held in a special place.

It is natural for children to experiment sexually. Alternatives to intercourse should be discussed.

When I was in school it was all about fear. AIDS! you are gonna get AIDS! Everyone has AIDS!

I could go on and on about the sorry state of sex ed.

I admire that dennis has actually thought long on this issue. He had a dialog with women on the issue and his pro-life stance evolved to a point where I think many people are: Abortions should be safe legal and rare.