Was Dean joking about reason to seal papers?

Last January, as his presidential campaign was stirring to life, Howard Dean was asked why he had decided to keep nearly half of his records as governor of Vermont under seal until 2013.

"Well, there are future political considerations," Dr. Dean told statehouse reporters. "We didn't want anything embarrassing appearing in the papers at a critical time in any future endeavor."

Dr. Dean now says he was joking about why he invoked executive privilege to keep 145 boxes of his official records — about 47 percent of them — under a 10-year seal. But there is ample evidence in the letters and e-mail correspondence between the former Vermont governor's counsel, David M. Rocchio, and the state archivist, D. Gregory Sanford, that a possible presidential race was indeed part of the discussions concerning how long to keep the records private.
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/12/27/politics/27RECO.html?ei=5062&en=3a3725ef01d5782c&ex=1073106000&partner=GOOGLE&pagewanted=all&position=

Was he quoted in them? Were these his instructions to them?

eileen from OH

Governor Dean is not ready to be President. It is a total dissaster
that we are being manipulated by a mischevious media into putting
him forward as our nominee -- I AM BEGINNING TO BELIEVE THE WHOLE DEAN BOOM IS A BIG-MEDIA PLOY to keep the news ratings up during the
election year -- looks like one laugh after another.

But, hey, Dean opponents want ammunition against him, so let them have it. Why not? They've been very effective with what they already have, so far. Effective in boosting Dean, anyway.

poop. i can't wait until this "army" takes the field against bush </sarcasm>

we are soooo screwed..........

As is obvious to anyone who's actually heard the tape. Maybe he should use it in his stump speech.

trouble with his compass these days.

The standards for HD are obviously different. FOR NOW.

He was grilled about this on Fox, for one. His opponents have desperately tried to use this against him for months.

When the records are released, if they contain no 'smoking guns', I wonder if some of the most vigorous 'what is he hiding?' crowd will be equally as contrite in saying "Sorry, Gov. Dean, for the reckless slander and speculation we engaged in last winter."? :eyes:

In all those papers, there has to be at least one sentence they can take out of context and lie about.

I shouldn't wonder that they will again. :P

if there is nothing to hide in the papers

of course that won't happen because Dean is hiding them

Kinda sad when "progressives" make excuses for a paid political servant.

That is what you are proposing.

You are saying that Howard Dean started this huge conspiracy to hide massive secrets by telling the media he was going to hide massive secrets away from the media.

windansea, say that to yourself a few times. You need to recognize what you are attempting to make people believe.

which sometimes gets him in trouble

You are correct he started this "conspiracy"

But the hoops he has been jumping thru since his "joke" about the papers makes me think there is some "there" there.

Nobody starts a conspiracy by telling the media they are starting a conspiracy.

I bluntly don't care what your opinion is on the situation, windansea, because you've shown youself to be completely biased. You publically detest Howard Dean and would do anything to harm his campaign. You are not a reasonable arbitrator of anything regarding Howard Dean.

as are all of us...

be contrite in the least...that's why he must open them now. The less ammo the pugs have the better...this situation is just giving them more ammo.

Government should be open.

So that is where Bard aims his arrow.

Let all that energy and hope build that something devastating will be discovered in Dean's records. Isn't that what the oppo are hoping for? The car wreck? They want to go on a massive fishing expedition. Maybe interview the women Dean dated in college, maybe once he didn't take no to mean no and thus has no reason representing women's rights as the Democratic candidate.

Before I was of the mind that Dean shouldn't fit the lawsuits and all, now, with all the steam building up, I think he should put up as many technical roadblocks as possible without actually obstructing it.

I mean, isn't it strange that no one can look at his records? What ever happened to free and OPEN government? For a candidate that seems to be all about democracy, people power, etc., he seems to be doing just the opposite on this issue. Democracy is all about an INFORMED citizenry making decisions. However, if the citizenry can't view the information, then what kind of honest decision can they make? The only thing they have to work with is what comes out of the candidate's mouth (or website) and what comes out of a candidate's mouth is what the communication team tells him or her to say. Spin, spin, spin......What is in those records that makes him want to keep them secret? Especially during the Democratic primary......

It is a VERY common practice among both Democrats and Republicans. Indeed, why ARE people getting their knickers in such a twist about it, one can only wonder... :eyes:

because of all Howie's rhetoric about power to the people, take back the country, cockroaches in washington etc etc etc

Dean talks real pretty and progressive

but actions speak louder than words...at least to some of us

Has your candidate made his/her office files, correspondence, staff-meeting noptes, etc. available? That concerns some of US, and makes us wonder how much of the other candidates' concerns are genuine, and how much pure political opportunism and hypocrisy...

you are welcome to post NY Times or other articles discussing how other candidates are hiding their records...

The focus is on every candidate, including your own, unless the rules have changed. So far, the only candidate with ANY credibility on this issue is Gen. Clark, who made what he can of his records public--- and HE'S not attacking Gov. Dean about this, oddly enough.

No... we expect YOU to write the NY Times about Clark's records. If open records are supposed to really mean anything, YOU have to be the one who proves it matters regarding all candidates.

You need to start picketting the Pentagon for Clark's records immediately. Get busy.

I need to do whatever I feel like doing....

which probably means grilling something non-cow...and head for the beach....it's about 70 hear today

:hi:

Tomatoey noodle goodness seems like a good plan for a few days.

On edit: Good thing you chilled. I was going to demand proof you weren't Ann Coulter's sex therapist!

Post your personnel files and most of your medical records for all the world to see if before you act like you are about openness.

Ahhh... that's different, huh? Why? You're publically demanding someone expose the details of their life for your examination to freely distort. You should have to be equally exposed to demand that.

and the records people would like to see from Dean's papers are not the personal ones...or medical ones

And unless it's General Clark, he/she has not opened up his/her files either...

was not quoted saying they were hiding their papers for political purposes

and that's why not many people are talking about it or writing articles about it...

changing the subject won't work

Am I, now? :eyes:

is the subject of this thread...:shrug:

He's not opposed to them being unsealed. How many variations one can make on the same non-issue piece of flame bait has never been a big problem here, it seems.

Was Gov. Dean's tie knotted properly when he made the statement? There's a whole new thread, just waiting to be born...:eyes:

You would be a hypocrite if you demand someone else open their work records without fully posting your own first. You are partipating in the public discussion of issues and we need to see the records of what YOUR motivations for making these demands.

Do you have Tom Delay for a client? How do we know you don't have Rush Limbaugh refilling his prescriptions at YOUR pharmacy. That's big money.

Please post the link to the website where you post all your records for our inspection.

and my records are private, and not being stored at govt expense.

pretty simple concept

Why are your records private. What are you hiding? Prove to me Sean Hannity isn't a regular customer at your dry cleaning shop.

I don't have any records

just a garage full of 100 dollar bills

here's my address.............

It is the disingenuous answers that come out of his mouth.

Care to elaborate?

Dean just sealed them a little longer than average.

Nobody else is the race is opening up their personal correspondences ove the last 15 years to anyone -- certainly not Bush.

Did you witness the contortions a few weeks ago when I asked when and where we could view everyone else's office records? Houdini would have looked like an amateur, among those bits of contortion. :P

If something were to come up and a judge felt the need to look at something in those records to see if there were a problem, the judge would get to look immediately upon request.

you can file a Vermont Open records request here:

http://www.rcfp.org/tapping/index.cgi?key=VT

Now go make yourselves busy and stop acting like every page of every document ever generated by any public official should be public.

I'm sorry, but I think it is. I think it's known that I'm a staunch Clark supporter - I've even gone into debt I can't really afford to max out on the allowable "matchable" contribution to him. I very, very, very much want him to be the Democratic nominee. But honestly, this issue (and IMnot particularlyHO, most of the issues being used to "beat up" Dean) is bogus.

Look, yesterday, we were all treated to the spectacle of a Dean supporter dredging up old "records" and "history" that had long been either debunked or shown to be incredibly unfairly slanted, to beat up Clark with. You think Rove's team will be any less resourceful if Dean turns out to be the nominee? Dream on. I don't care that his records are sealed if it prevents Rove from pulling something out of context and using it as a club against Dean. I don't care if his reason for sealing them was to prevent that very thing from happening. After all, there's FAR WORSE in Bush's sealed records, and we KNOW he sealed them to prevent political opponents from exposing his misdeeds to the American public. Why should we give Bush an advantage?

As far as I'm concerned, the ONLY issue worth *my* consideration when it comes to Dean is whether his support tops out at 30% of the Democratic base. If so, and we nominate him anyway, we're screwed. If not, there's hope, even if he IS the nominee. Given the possibility that he MIGHT be the nominee, I say anything that will help prevent Bush/Rove from laying a glove on him is a good thing.

Thus sayeth me. (And, if it needs to be said, ONLY me.)

Karen

Now that's the way you can be partisan and still be reasonable!

Thanks for looking at what the real task is ahead of us. Beating Bush!!!

Good Luck with the Clark stuff. I've seen too much through the years to believe the campaign is close to over. Lots more is likely to happen in the weeks and months ahead. The story is far from written yet.

I agree, and will also say that I think a lot of the 'issues' people are posting about Gen. Clark are pure crap, also debunked long ago. We have no pure and unsullied candidate running, which means they all have 'histories' that can be distorted; that doesn't mean that fellow Democrats should buy into those distortions, just for some dubious 'advantage' in the primaries.

ABB in '04! :)

I've been staying out of the candidate bashing threads, for the most part. I'm not interested in side issues. I want facts about my candidate and others, I want to see what news coverage they're getting (and how slanted it is), but the bashing just makes me want to scream - especially when it's on stupid stuff. But, somebody wrote in a thread yesterday about supporters of one candidate not speaking up when another candidate is bashed unfairly, so I figured I should check out a few of the "bashing" threads, and have my say.

Of course, they still make me scream, so the dogs are cowering under my desk right now, the cats are hiding in the basement, and hubby has retreated to the upper story of the house... just in case my head explodes again. He hates cleaning up the mess almost as much as I do. :D

I think we have a responsibility to our respective candidates to 'police our own', and I've started; I will no longer sit by and watch fellow Dean supporters post pure flame bait bullsh*t without calling them on it publicly, and hitting 'alert' privately. The distrust among the various campaigns is both ridiculous and unwarranted, as most of us would likely agree on 95+% of the fundamental issues that matter most to us as Democrats. We can help build a bond of trust and understanding without surrendering our 'fighting spirit', IMO, and it's time that the reasonable supporters fromn every camp came together to put an end to these insane flame wars! :hi:

As in, "What Would Wes Say"?

If you read his positions and the coverage of his events - and even in the debates, he doesn't bash other candidates, he just says why he thinks he's better on an issue or as the nominee than they are. And he never gets involed in the "stupid stuff" like whether Dean should or shouldn't have said that we're not safer with Saddam captured (and we're not) or whether he was "using" his brother when he listed him as military (hell, maybe he knows something we don't?) or whether an elected official supporting due process is a bad thing (HUH? I thought due process was a GOOD thing).

So, yeah, I'm gonna pick at least "bash" thread a day and call BS where I think it's appropriate. By the end of March, we'll all be on the same team. I don't want my team-mates to be holding grudges against Clark when we get to the GENERAL election! :D

I've started asking myself this question: What would someone who knows nothing about any of the candidates think about Gov. Dean if they knew a Dean supporter started this thread?

Good luck, and may the best candidate win! :hi:

It would be most enjoyable ;)

Of course, this quote from The West Wing (pre-Sorkin departure) would be appropriate too:

"Somebody came along and said 'liberal' means 'soft on crime, soft on drugs, soft on Communism, soft on defense, and we're gonna tax you back to the Stone Age because people shouldn't have to go to work if they don't want to.' And instead of saying, 'Well, excuse me, you right-wing, reactionary, xenophobic, homophobic, anti-education, anti-choice, pro-gun, Leave it to Beaver trip back to the '50s,' we cowered in the corner and said, 'Please don't hurt me.'"
--"Bruno" The West Wing

Damn, that's dedication.

I'm impressed! :)

I thought the maximum for matching funds was $250. Even *I* - as staunch as I am - can't afford $2000 on credit. Not with the balance I've already got, anyway. It's been a bad quarter... sick animals, major (emergency) dental work, an ill-advised "project," car trouble... we've burned totally through our "cushion" and into our savings since October. And that's not counting Christmas... (hence the rather large credit balance at the moment...)

You 'gave 'til it hurt'--- that shows committment! No wonder he's doing so well, with supporters as dedicated as you are. :)

Good for you!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=108&topic_id=96196


Don't see a post from you yet.

I never said I was going to post on EVERY candidate bashing thread. My head would explode, and then what good could I do in the GENERAL election? :D Besides, there are (unfortunately) WAAAYY too many of them. But feel free to put a link to my post in this thread on the subject, if you want. ;)

Karen

It's a reality check.

You can post your response in this new thread, if you want. :D



edit: Iow, where can I view WWSIHPP? (What Wes Said In His Personal Papers)

"where can I view WWSIHPP? (What Wes Said In His Personal Papers)"

I have no idea. I don't even know if military officers are allowed to have "personal papers" in the sense I think you mean. Everything they do is under the auspices of the military, right? So I suppose you'd have to go to the military. It's not important to me (neither his nor Dean's) because (IMHO, yet again) it's a diversion.