Dave Obey - do you agree with him or not?

I am posting this link to a YouTube video that has been on teevee all day today. I am posting it without personal comment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS4wHMCc57k

The poll question: Do you agree with Obey or not?

Does he really NEED to be shrieking at this woman?

He seems to think people like that really have no business in matters of state.... after all, just because her son is in the military...

What contribution has she made to the Democratic Party? I mean, its the rich they serve, not the people who have to do the work.

Who's "they?"

with some occasional exceptions.

grab a pitchfork, and go after those awful guys like Obey, who want to end the war, fully fund healthcare for vets, and provide adequate equipment to the troops so fewer of them will die before we get them out of Iraq!!!! Wait, wait....is this a conservative website, or what???

This whole thread is a scream! I think Obey might have been accurate in one term he used!

He can do no wrong in your book. Three threads now I have seen you worshiping at his liberal throne. Hmmm.
:eyes:

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I've watched Obey struggle for YEARS while the Republicans silenced and the Dems when they were in the minority. And he fought, and fought, and fought ALL the time for fairness, and to bring OVERSIGHT to the Republican controlled Congress.

He's definitely NOT a bullshitter, nor is he elitist. And even though *I* was shocked at the video, I read the article on the Hill newspaper and found out that not only were people stopping him in the hallway - they were staging sit-ins in his office.

You tell me -- perhaps he may be getting stressed by the *in your face* actions of democratic (his OWN party) demonstrators?

Obey is NOT the bad guy in this. The BAD GUY is whoever it was that was videotaping the man WITHOUT his permission. WTF is WRONG with you people? The rules are VERY clear about videotaping in Congress. And the video handler very slickly kept BEHIND Obey's back. Guess perhaps he KNEW he was doing something ILLEGAL?

NEWSFLASH -- this is the WRONG guy to go after! You want to stage sit-ins and embarrass people who DESERVE this sort of STUPID bullshit? I'll give you NAMES ---

JOE LIEBERMAN and ARLEN SPECTOR, for starters. The Congress has consistently hammered through bills WE wanted. It's been the SENATE that has been playing schoolyard tactics. THAT is where the bills have been stopped.

Go HARRASS the SENATE. And STOP doing this childish guerilla bullshit to the guys who ARE on OUR side.

Someone who GETS IT!!! And articulates the position so intelligently and compellingly!!!

I'm cracking up at the self-righteous "liberal idiots" who make assumptions about what someone is based on two words, don't bother to read and research the man's record, or even give a glance at the supplemental, or even LISTEN to what the man is saying on the video!

Now, the "idiot liberal" woman is getting her fifteen minutes of fame on MSNBC--ka ching. She gets an appearance fee for that. Lucky her!! Beat up on a liberal Congressman who wants to end the war, and go on TV! No doubt Faux will pay her, and CNN as well. A nice payday for being a misinformed idiot.

If I could recommend this thread twice, I would! It's VERY telling....!!!

I agree with you. Obey lost his temper, sure, but he's someone who fights for us. Obey showed his frustration because he's in the thick of the battle trying to end this stupid war. We may not always agree with his actions but I know he's on our side.

K & R

I mean honestly, what is the purpose of that law? It is clearly to keep information from the people that may make our congressional "representatives" look bad. It is a bad law, and I can not blame the camera person for violating it. It is an acceptable act of civil disobedience in my opinion.

We elect them and we pay their salaries. Why do we not have the right to keep track of what they are doing?

But you failed to do it.

Seems like you people need to grow up and cop a clue. YOU BLEW IT.

If he doesn't like "idiot liberal" activists, he should fucking retire.

Or are you one of those sound-bite babies that get all squishy when someone expresses their own opinion.

I'm stunned at all the *he sucks* posts from people who haven't got a CLUE or even care to look up the record of a longtime Congressman.

Give a pack of idiots and tell them to scamper thru the halls of Congress. That is NOT activism. It's idiots looking for ATTENTION.

No wonder Dems get such a bad rap. A small contingency of Idiots on parade ruin it for EVERYONE else.

I sure as hell am not going to take it from a "leader" of my own party. You keep taking it up the arse though, you apparently enjoy the hell out of it.

You should look at the RECORDS before having a hissy over comments. Sorry dear -- we don't need thin-skinned divas in this fight.

Can't handle name-calling? You're ALREADY in too deep. Check back after puberty.

No one has worked harder for our country and the poor than Congressman Obey. You only prove his comments to be true when you make comments like that.

He's a US Congressman. He should act accordingly. He was rude and abrasive. There's no excuse for that kind of behavior. What's wrong with a little respectful dialogue? What's wrong with behaving in an appropriate manner? He blew it. It's that simple. The "IDIOT LIBERALS" pay his salary. I don't care how misinformed she may have been. She had the right to ask a question. Besides, that woman didn't attack him. HE ATTACKED HER. Hell, he yelled at her. I thought she behaved respectfully which is more than I can say for the good congressman. He lectured her like she was a child. Not cool.

He thinks HE'S frustrated? Try being the mom of a soldier on their second or third tour. :cry:

And why was this recorded and put on the internet? It really gives me pause in a rush to judgment of a man who has always been against the war and who stands up to this administration.

There are ignorant liberals, just as there are authoritarian liberals. How well meaning these guys were, I have no idea.

It got better later, but I think that was because Obey raised his voice a bit, actually quite a bit.

He asked her over and over to explain where the necessary 218 votes to defund the war in the House would come from. She deflected the question, had no clue. He didn't even get into the obvious problem that, even if the House did pass the bill, there is NO WAY it would get through the Senate. Of course we can TRY to do it anyway, but when it fails the WH will laud it as a victory, and proof that their "strategy" is right.

It is frustrating, but the woman didn't want to hear anything other than her fantasy that the bill would somehow get passed. She is obviously desperate because of her son, but that is no reason to annoy a representative who has fought against this war from the get-go. He can count, after all.

Tina is a good friend of mine. She ran a Dem's campaign for US congress and worked her ass off. She is a very active Dem in SE Missouri. She raised a ton of money for Claire McCaskill. Her son made a commercial for Claire.

Home work is crucial, but blind siding a potential ally is not constructive. She could do better lying down on the sidewalk. My understanding of Obey is that he is not her opponent, and absolutely not reluctant to work in ending the war. Why would she target him like that? ... Perhaps that is the more cogent question.

How do you know he hates that woman and all she represents?

He's actually one of our more liberal Congressmen I thought.

He might have just more left than himself.

She finally admitted it after he tried to drill it in her brain...

I understand her frustration, but she surely could have been a tad more informed before picking in him and then having the guerilla video taping like he's some kind of Repug.

Obey is clearly against the war...has been...and continues to be.

yelling at her, flailing against liberal groups, etc. I also wonder if he was telling the truth; I thought there is enough money already earmarked to get troops out of there w/o adding more.
But I'm one of those damn liberals. :eyes:

Also had a tough time with the audio; it'd fade in and out.

He certainly has the energy... can go on a diet, get a good exercise program, and get his ol' formerly fat ass in Iraq.

Yeah, the nerve of the guy, not being able to scare up enough votes to do it YESTERDAY! The neo-con rightwing BUM!!!! Clearly a Bush bot, send the old man to Eye RACK for his lousy effort at a supplemental!!!

:rofl:

This is a scream, this thread!!!

I'm guessing you aren't...

It's a shame too.

But since Congressman Obey is a Democrat, dosen't that make him a liberal as well do really the guy just made fun of himself. But serious for a guy that supposed to be the chairman of the 2nd most powerful committee in the House he acted like a real jerk in fron of those people, he could of said calmly "we don't have the votes to cut funding for the war" he didn't have to yell and scream like a banchee. That was total dispespectful attitude for a U.S Congressman.

.... the nature of the exchange is such that any summary would likely inject personal bias.

So far, I can't find a transcript.

Everyone who clicked "I disagree with his position" is as idiotic as those 'idiot liberals' who haven't read his suplemental!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is an hysterical poll, frankly!

Only a pro-war cheerleader would 'disagree with his position' frankly...

I apologize - I completely misread your comments.

Recommend this thread, if you haven't already--it's something that more people need to see, I think.

Honestly, I wish we had 435 more Obeys to say this same thing. We need to be much better informed than we currently are. I never cease to be amazed by the fundamental lack of information about how our political system works here at DU.

Eventually, I'm going to write a nice long post about how a bill REALLY becomes a law, but it'll have to wait until my craziness at work ends.

Here's a link to get you inspired: http://www.school-house-rock.com/Bill.html

I'm just a bill.
Yes, I'm only a bill.
And I'm sitting here on Capitol Hill.
Well, it's a long, long journey
To the capital city.
It's a long, long wait
While I'm sitting in committee,
But I know I'll be a law some day
At least I hope and pray that I will
But today I am still just a bill.

Working on this stuff, it's amazing to me how little people know. I mean, there are parts of this process that even good, knowledgeable folks simply don't know because they're not here. But they should, because it's all very integral to what does and does not get into laws.

Still, it kills me when you run into people around here that think they're political geniuses because they watch Meet the Press or read DailyKOS. If they even had one iota of basic knowledge of how Congress operates, they'd be a lot more patient than they are.

Never mind issues like gee, not having the votes, quid pro quos, the "constituency" difficulties (for some, a sure way to be gone in two years is to trend too far in one direction without a little something in a bill for their district) and the general, sometimes ugly, sausage-making aspect of it all.

And yeah, people really should know better than to rely on "Meet the Potatohead" for their political education, unless they like GOP softball and that swell game "Ask the Democrat a Question and then Refuse to Permit a Complete Answer!"

Both of whom play a FAR, FAR larger role in lawmaking than most people realize. And if they do have an inkling, they usually think it's a bad thing - which it's most certainly not.

Spear-carrying (and briefing book writing) for others more important than me who were lobbyists in everything save name.

I know whatcha mean!

When he started screaming at that woman and accusing her of "smoking something illegal" I found it quite sickening and disrespectful.

I think Obey has been a good Congressman for the most part, but he stepped way over the line here.

He is right we do not have the votes. Obey is hard core anti-war

gotten angry.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/obey-berates-woman-over-war-funding-later-apologizes-2007-03-09.html

He also makes some good points about how "liberal groups" should try to understand the process and get informed of what was in the bill.

My feeling is that the frustration of this stupidity is getting the better of our BEST Congresspeople. They have to deal with poorly informed, but well-intended people like this group (Obey is the lead sponsor of the bill. It is a little bit futile to ask him if he is going to vote for this bill, for example), and wussy congresspeople who are afraid to look too weak on defense.

Give him a break. If they do not have the vote, people can attack them as much as they want, but they are attacking the same people they normally worship, in this instance, Obey and Byrd, the two co-sponsors of the bill!

Look at how many of them "disagree with Obey's position" here. Clearly, most of them do not even KNOW Obey's position--or we have a shitload of Free Republic types visiting today!

on the list. That dirty rotten Neo-con enabler.

...that Halliburton-loving, right wing fiend!!!!!!

Then, it's back over to the Senate, to take down that arch conservative Ted Kennedy!!!!

This thread is cracking me up. I've rarely seen such earnest and ill-informed dudgeon!

It's really holding up a mirror--and some might not like the view.

But it's probably better to note this now, and maybe it will slow some of the piling on crowd down as we get closer to the elections.

and I can barely hear him and have no clue what this is about. Maybe you should have provided some information in your post.

Though maybe it helps to be familiar with the matter he was discussing.

Jesus F. Christ. How do people not know that?

(on edit: that exchange is at the five-minute mark)

I know, it's pretty doggone incredible.

But the one who doesn't know that there's no House filibuster gets an appearance fee to flap her jaw on cable news. Go figure!

...something about Ben Franklin 'er sumptin'.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/13/2007/2470

Congressman Obey says "Idiot Liberals" need to support war money
by David Swanson
March 9, 2007

House Appropriations Chair David Obey (Dem., Wisc.) ran into woman in the hallway in Washington recently and ended up yelling at her and her friends, accusing them of "smoking something that's not legal" if they disagreed with him, and denouncing "idiot liberals."

The woman, Tina Richards, introduced herself to Obey as the mother of a Marine about to depart for his third tour of Iraq, and as someone who has tried to communicate with Obey but received no response. Then she…

Well, watch the video yourself. It may be depressing, but it's certainly entertaining (just like network television): http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/19392

Obey claims in this video that the only way to end the war is to fund it, because

1.-They don't have the votes to stop funding it. (Of course, they would if they voted like "idiot liberals".)

2.-Funding a withdrawal would somehow mysteriously harm "our troops." (Will Obey say that to Richards' son?)

3.-Requiring an end to the war (which Obey's bill does NOT do) is as good as defunding it. (But if that were true, why would you have the votes for it and not the other?

I think it's important to watch idiot Congress Members in off-the-cuff videos like this in order to understand something: they're neither idiots nor completely cynical. They actually believe some of their own sound bytes. This understanding has to shape our task of educating and pressuring them to change.

Did this guy mention in his piece anything about Obey's clear record of being against the war? Did this self-important schmuck mention that the woman Obey was talking to finally realized that she did not understand the bill. Did this piece of rabbit's droppings have any idea how a bill is made and that you don't just pull votes out of your ass when the votes aren't there.

If this guy knows how to make votes magically appear when the votes aren't there, I would suggest he get a patent on that right quick, y'all.

Like Obey said, this guy is an "idiot liberal". There are "informed liberals" and then this guy. Crack a book...do some homework...ferchrissakes...

DAVID SWANSON is the Washington Director of Democrats.com and of ImpeachPAC.org. He is creator of MeetWithCindy.org, and a board member of Progressive Democrats of America. He has worked as a newspaper reporter and as a communications director, with jobs including Press Secretary for Dennis Kucinich's 2004 presidential campaign, Media Coordinator for the International Labor Communications Association, and three years as Communications Coordinator for ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now. Swanson serves on the Executive Council of the Washington Baltimore Newspaper Guild. He obtained a Master's degree in philosophy from the University of Virginia in 1997. His website is www.davidswanson.org.

He's picking on the wrong guy!

He's a clear zealot, through and through.

That pretty much tells you what you need to know. Expect to see his byline at counterpuke before too long, if it isn't there already.

http://usliberals.about.com/od/liberalleadership/a/IraqNayVote_2.htm

He apologized for his antics. Give it a rest...

I watched the video and Obey is frustrated with the woman and her misunderstanding of the bill. After a dozen points about the bill, the woman finally realized that she was misinformed. Then the guy came in and mentioned a bill during the Vietnam era and Obey corrected him, since Obey was there for that as well.

Obey is clearly against the war and stated he was the first to want Rumsfeld to resign, but knows that there are not enough votes to just say "end the war now". Part of understanding the recent bill is that the Democrats are not going to stop funding for the troops.

I understand Obey's frustration on many levels.

it was frustrating just listening to the uninformed questions, never mind trying to answer them. Obey's one of the good guys.

My favorite quote of late, though it was said 150 years ago... and what the man in your avatar would say today...

Frederick Douglass, former slave, extraordinary speaker and writer, wrote in his Rochester newspaper the North Star, January 21, 1848, of "the present disgraceful, cruel, and iniquitous war with our sister republic. Mexico seems a doomed victim to Anglo Saxon cupidity and love of dominion." Douglass was scornful of the unwillingness of opponents of the war to take real action (even the abolitionists kept paying their taxes):

it is not something to brag about, really.

Why did they ambush him like that?

Lets say we de-fund the body armor, the bullets, the tanks, etc. Would Bush actually try to continue the war?

He was an ass and owes her a sincere apology.

But of course, that won't get her time on a news program, so that won't be happening. :sarcasm:

Tina actually loves to see her face on TV and doesn't care at all about her son who is being sent to Iraq FOR THE THIRD TIME. She doesn't care about the 3190 families who have lost soldiers in Iraq. Nope. It's all about the air time. :sarcasm:

And the courageous soul who HID behind Obey -- want to post HIS name?

Hell yeah -- it's ALL about the airtime. For her and for the grassroots *club for kiddies*. Gotta get those VOLUNTEERS lined up -- yeah baby.

If she was HONEST about seeking information from Obey she would have called and requested an appointment. But she WASN'T. It was ALL about accosting a representative in a hallway, so the little boys at grassroots could be youtube stars.

Want a list of the REAL bad guys? The grownups can send one for you. :sarcasm:

Granted, the audio is very echoey and the recording is downsampled for YouTube... but I was so pissed at how Obey was treated in this exchange that I compiled a transcript. Here goes:


Opening Scene: Woman approaches Obey as he tries to enter his office.

Woman: I left a poem that my son had wrote (indeciperable) and um, I was wondering if you had ever gotten to (indeciperable) read it. He's a United States Marine who has done two tours in Iraq and was going to be deployed for a third tour.

Obey: I honestly don't know about the I'm so buried in appropriations bills and get to my office about ten minutes a day. I've seen very limited (indeciperable)...

Woman: OK, well it was because, uh, my son has suffered from PTDS (post-traumatic distress syndrome) and um...

Obey: Let's take a look... (pointing to office)

Woman: He's attempted suicide attempts and tried to get help through the VA and it took us 6 months to get to his first appointment with the VA and it sounds like with the ten minutes (indeciperable) to conditions but he was able to go to four years with the Marines, two deployments with Iraq...honorable discharge and (indeciperable) citation and he feels forgot and now he needs help with the VA (indeciperable)

Obey: Did you hear what happened with the hearing today (indeciperable) and it's a disgrace (?)
with the military screwing guys (indeciperable)...the Washington Post report has...

Woman: I've been talking about this for a year now and nobody appears to be paying much attention...

Obey: Well, the good news is we've been able to (indeciperable) and now people are beginning to pay attention.

Woman: But...then what about the..um, why are you going to be voting against the Supplemental...

Obey: Absolutely not... I'm the sponsor of the Supplemental of this bill...

Woman: With the...um..uh...to continue the war?

Obey: (shakes head) It doesn't... the President wants to continue the war...we're trying to use the Supplemental to end the war... you can't end the war if you are going against the Supplemental... it's time you idiot liberals understand that...there's a hell of a difference between helping the troops and continuing the war.... I'm not going to cut funds for body armor, stop funding for veterans hospitals...you're not going to deny funding for benefits in veterans hospitals...so you can help people who've got medical problems....that's what you do if you if you vote against that bill.

Woman: There should be enough money over there for the regular defense bills...

Obey: There isn't.

Woman: ...without continuing the funding for the war...

Obey: There isn't... there isn't... that's not the way it works... a regular defense bill pays for a standing army... but it doesn't pay for fees repairing costs... we're going to add over a billion dollars more to what the president is asking for...to exactly try to fix some of the problems you are talking about. How the hell do you get money for the hospitals if you don't provide the money for it?

Woman: Well then, are you going to be in support of the... um...

Obey: I hate the war! (loudly) I voted against it to start with...I was the first guy in Congress to call for Rumsfeld's resignation...but we don't have the votes to defund the war and we shouldn't because that also means we defund everything you've got to help the guys that are victims of the war.

Woman: Well, there is...this amendment to the supplemental that to fully fund the withdraw of the troops...

Obey: That doesn't make sense.

Woman: Well, the funds...

Obey: It doesn't work that way. The language we have in the resolution ends the authority for the war (emphatic). It makes it illegal to proceed with the war. They don't have to fund something if the war doesn't exist.

(3:29)

Woman: Oh! I didn't know that was in the....

Obey: That's the problem... that's the problem. Liberal groups are jumping around without knowing what the hell is in the bill. We don't have to cut off funds for an activity that is no longer legal.

(Pause) Guy enters scene.

Woman: And they are approaching that with...

Obey: We're shutting it off.

Guy: What about the Church Amendment in the Vietnam War...was it '72...'73...

Obey: It took us 31 different efforts to get there. I was here for that. (was in Congress in 1973)

Guy: Yeah, I know.... OK...

Obey: I know what the hell I'm talking about.

Guy: Did it help win the ground war in Vietnam?

Obey: No, it didn't. The political pressure on the administration finally put an end to the war. The amendment that finally ended the funding was the Adolb(?) Amendment. I was a sponsor of the amendment. (Note: this may be in reference to the 1973 War Powers Resolution)

Guy: So if you pass the resolution, isn't he still the Commander In Chief?

Obey: We don't have the votes to pass it! We couldn't even get votes to pass a non-binding resolution one week ago. How the hell do you think we're going to get the votes to cut off the war?

Guy: You stop the funding...

Obey: How about if you don't have the votes? It takes 211 votes...

Guy: You filibuster the supplemental request...

Obey: There is no filibuster in the House. (Duh!)

Guy: Well, in the Senate they could do it...

Obey: (leaving) I'm sorry... no, I'm not going to vote for it. I'm the sponsor of the bill that's going to be on the floor...(emphatically) That bill ends the war! If that's good enough for you, then you're smoking something illegal..

Guy: I... no, I'm not, sir.

Obey (offscreen): You've got your facts screwed up.

Woman: Can we...

Guy: Can't we stop funding the war?

Obey (back onscreen): We don't have the votes! (opening coat) Do you see a magic wand in my pocket?

Guy: No.

Obey (closes jacket): How the hell are we going to get the votes for it? We ain't got the votes for it. We do have the votes if you guys quit screwing it up...we do have the votes to end the legal authority for the war...that's the same as defunding it...

Obey's assistant enters scene and tries to break up exchange.

Guy: We can debate... (indecipherable)

Obey: Go f*ck yourself in the head...goodbye (shuts door)

But Obey acted like an ass and the Woman in the video made some very good points on Hardball today. I hope the anti war activist keep the pressure up and hold our elected officials feet to the fire.

Because she sure was acting like an idiot when she was badgering Obey.

probably out of worry for her son, who is deploying to Iraq on March 24th. But her answers to Tweety's questions about where the votes would come from in the House was unclear, as I said, just desperate hoping and wishing. Obey is a veteran politician; he knows when a position is hopeless and she should have listened to him. This all will probably change after the Escalation fails, but for now, it isn't gonna happen.

I think while Obey blew up a little bit, he was right and she was incredibly misinformed. And the guy who tried to help her out and claimed that the House could filibuster it made me want to punch the computer screen. I just can't believe that people like this woman whom believe so passionately we should end this war, like we ALL do, aren't informed. She frankily didn't know what she was talking about, and Rep. Obey did!!

I didn't like his liberal comment, but he was getting heated. So I'll let it slide ;)

Otherwise, he handled himself well.

Fuck him.

Otherwise, he was right!!

I can kind of appreciate the frustration he has for people who apparently don't understand the process. I have spent a LOT of time trying to figure out how to get things done at City Hall and if I am engaging with a dialog with somebody who doesn't know a lot, I expect them to at least give me a fair hearing as I try to explain how things work and why they work that way. I understand it can be very frustrating for new activists who want things done yesterday, but so often they get frustrated that there IS no magic wand and that things don't just happen overnight, and they have such unreasonable expectations, that it in turn makes ME frustrated.

You know, cars aren't built in a day, houses aren't built in a day, and yet people have these wildly unrealistic expectations about how government works.

That said, from what I've read about the video, he *was* rude --- of course, he's apologized already, so that's good.

Coming from a Congress whose Democratic Speaker has put impeachment off the table, I am not surprised at the collective impotence displayed by too many of our Congressional leaders. We need more Kucinichs, Waters, Kerrys, Feingolds to name a few of those that want to end the war now.

The exchange between Obey and a woman whose son is about to start a third combat tour, and who risks coming home in a bodybag, is illustrative of the growing chasm between those that live inside the Beltway bubble and the rest of America, as David Sirota points out here:

A Senate trial of Bush and Cheney will show everyone in this country, and in the entire world, the extent of their crimes, their lies, their abuses of power. A Senate trial will build public support for their conviction and removal from office by the Senate, so much so that even Republicans that believe in the Constitution will vote to convict.

No. Not yet.

I'm all for impeachment (and worse for treason), but if the votes aren't there yet (211), it's more of a charade. We have to convince Congress that it is their duty to uphold the Constitution... and time is running out.

The House hearings, the public airing of all the evidence showing the crimes and abuses of power by Bush and Cheney, will generate public support for the House passing of Articles of Impeachment. A Senate trial will shift public opinion in favor of conviction and removal of Bush and Cheney.

Like I said, the only thing we lack is the will to save our beloved republic and restore the Constitution. If we don't have the will to remove Bush and Cheney, we won't have the will to stop this war even with a Democratic Administration.

but it's a theory nonetheless.

If I understand you correctly, you see a domino effect from hearings to impeachment to troop withdrawal. There have been/are/will be hearings about Guantanamo Bay, Valerie Plame's outing, waste and fraud in Iraq, Walter Reed, etc., as well as reports and investigations about misused intelligence, contractor conflicts of interest, sealing presidential records, Patriot Act and civil liberties, etc.

But despite the truth coming out, despite voter anger at Bush and Cheney, despite Republican representatives distancing themselves, there still aren't the votes for impeachment. So we'd have to wonder how long that might take.

Don't get me wrong -- I am all for impeachment!! I'm for more hearings and more investigations and more testimony and more unsealing of documents, notes and records. But as a strategy to "end the war," especially one in Obey's control (which was my question), it's a long shot especially in terms of the TIME involved.

So what else could Obey do?

it is clear that the expectations from certain factions on the left are based on misconceptions of process. He probably is buried in a barrage of unrealistic expectations manifested by self-righteous epithets from people who don't understand that he is making the moves legislatively available to him to stop the war.

The You Tube link on this caused me to believe he is sincere in that endeavor although, again, it is also apparent he had reached his maximum patience level with what he perceived to be the "idiot liberal" ignorance of process and was pretty annoyed with the woman confronting him.

...it was evident that he was patient for the first few questions, but it became apparent to him that she really hadn't figured out what he had been doing...she didn't even know he was the sponsor of the bill and many of its parts to stop the war through making the authority taken away from Bush.

She really was picking on the wrong guy. I'm not sure where she's from, but I don't think she was from Wisconsin. She should address her congressperson with her very legitimate concerns. That was also tragic in the whole event.

Obey was a tad over-the-top on some comments, but it's as though he felt nothing is good enough for some people. He has been in the Democratic trenches for years and has a progressive history to prove it.

As for the the Mr. Smarty Pants who didn't know basic civics who snarked at Obey, that was where I think anyone would have lost it.

:applause:

and outright lies by the administration . . . therefore, every death and dismemberment -- American and Iraqi -- is the result of ILLEGAL actions on the part of the U.S. government under George W. Bush . . .

given that undeniable fact, the most important thing for the Congress to do is to end this war ASAP . . . if, and Congressman Obey says, they don't have the votes to do so, then they should be initiating impeachment proceedings against the whole BushCo cabal for starting an ILLEGAL war that has resulted in innumerable deaths and horrific injuries, not to mention the devastation of an entire nation . . .

I don't care how it's done, but American values, ethics, morals, and law demand that Congress get it done -- and NOW . . . anything less and they simply aren't doing their jobs . . .

Obey is obviously frustrated with some of the activists who don't seem to understand the bills. To some extent that's understandable. I get frustrated too with the "idiot liberals" here who happily yet thoughtlessly parrot the bullshit talking points against our Dems (for example, Obama is a DLC'er).

But the elected PAID Dems ought to be a little more diplomatic with people. Get an aide to meet with the leaders of the activists groups and school them on what the bills mean. These activists are interested in ending the war, and they're voluntarily willing to take their personal time to stand up and represent their position. That doesn't mean that they're volunteer politicians who automatically understand how congress operates. They may have never been interested in politics before in their life but yet still feel strongly enough to get involved when it comes to the war.

Give 'em a break. It's better to light a candle than to curse the darkness. We don't have a Rush Limbaugh on our side or Shawn Hannity who do nothing but sell the Democratic Party's ideas and explain what everything means. I'm sure if we did a lot of us would be more informed. As it is, the lines of communication for Dems pretty much sucks. I see people mis-informed about all kinds of Democratic/government related issues in just about every single political thread I read around here, and I myself have been confused on certain things about what the hell the Dems are doing and/or why. I happen to be self-motivated to research what I don't understand because I have a genuine interest in learning. But not everyone has the kind of time or patience as I do for that kind of stuff.

Voting records aside, I expect the elected and paid representatives of my party to not call ordinary citizens idiots, no matter how tempting it may be. I saw later in the thread that Obey has since apologized and that was the right thing to do.