Gun laws are adequate? There are 30,000 gun deaths a year in US

Look it up. Thats ten 9/11s every year. We went to war in Afghanistand and Iraq and spent hundreds of $ billions because of 9/11.

Is it worth it? Why not implement every possible law to prevent sketchy people from buying guns, to keep people from buying guns at shows and sending them into the cities.

I am disgusted to say that I've watched this scene play out too many times over the past 40 years. It is deja vu all over again. We are a culture of guns and violence. There are far too many people who fervently believe that guns belong in our society. The arguments are all so tired.

This disturbed person purchased a gun easily and legally. Guns should be anything but easy to obtain.

It is difficult to believe that this will ever change in the foreseeable future.

We are a sick bunch.

One reason why crime statistics in the US are so bad when compared to the industrialized world is because the US simply can't or won't invest in social programs to combat poverty, and there is strong correlation between poverty and crime and gun crime.

France has those riots by alienated youth and only one person was shot dead.
<http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur_percap-crime-murders-per-capita>

I was addressing crime in general, but that doesn't seem worthwhile in your view?

You can't have a policy of trying to reduce gun crime without a complementary program to combat fundamental inequities in the economy like poverty and lack of opportunities.

One person a year killing thirty people is far less of a problem than thousands of people a year killing one or two each.

Gun shows should be ended ASAP.

The NRA and its ilk like to pull out all the usual cliches: "But the massacre(s) happened, even in (name of place), where they have ("300"/"400"/"the strongest gun control laws in the country")".

Unless and until every state a) allows the local police to authorize handgun permits (i.e. make sure the applicant isn't a psycho); and b) prevents everyone -- gun show dealer, private seller, etc. -- from selling a firearm or ammo unless a thorough background check is first performed on the prospective buyer, we can expect more Virginia Techs, Jennifer SanMarcos', Seattle massacres, Utah shopping mall massacres, etc.

Should we ban automobiles?

I think NRA Cliche/Talking Point #1 is, "Take away the guns, and the criminals will use knives/sticks/stones/nerf balls..."

So I have no idea what thier talking points are. I was using statistics from AAA. Are they in cahoots with the NRA?

because of the number of automobile accidents?

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speaking of assholes, you have not even begun to have been here long enough to use that type of language against someone. But then again people like you tend not to last long here either.

People like me? meaning smart, good looking, reasonable people?

We need cars. They serve a purpose. Automobile accidents are an unfortunate byproduct. In addition, they make strides every year to improve safety. Seat belts, air bags, roll cages, collapsing body panels, etc. The gun lobby doesnt want the government to register guns, you have to register a car.

BTW all guns, weather hunting riffles or what have you should be registered.

Guns are made for one purpose, shooting living things.

And any living thing that comes through my door or window will pay the consequence. One already knows from past experience.

The benefit of tighter gun control would be to save many thousands of lives every year.

The costs of tighter gun control would be inconvenience to gun collectors and hunters, and a few (far,*far* fewer) people killed each year who could have saved their lives if they'd had guns.

The benefits of banning cars would be to save thousands of lives every year.

The costs of banning cars would be... unimaginable. The breakdown of American civilisation, anarchy, thousands and thousands of deaths, probably armed revolution, you name it.

One clearly is worthwhile, the other clearly isn't.

Next silly analogy?

but I didn't realize it was quite that many gun deaths per year.

It's a national disgrace.

If we had a database of all these guns, complete with ownership records, and balistics info, it would go along way to tracking crimes. I have to register my car, why not a deadly weapon capable of massacre?

just curious...It is not the gun that kills.....and there is no way to get all the illegal guns off the streets, no matter how many gun laws you enforce...
wb

I would amend my modest proposal to include jail time for the manufacturers of the gun involved in a crime but the bushies have already granted them complete immunity from prosocution... That would have to be changed first and I don't think any Dems or pukes have the courage to do it.

We'll just have to accept the carnage...

so...but I would imagine that there are guns that were not manufactured in America, that have still been used to killed someone here...the gun doesn't kill...the person who pulls the trigger kills...

I figure that IF a person, any person, is determined to kill, that person will find a way to do so...whether it be with a gun, a car...a knife, a baseball bat, his bare hands or arson, or as a suicide bomber...there are multitudes of ways to commit murder and mayhem, IF that is a person's desire...but...it is still the human being making the decision...not the weapon...and I see NO cure for that...as there will always be dangerous persons, those that for some reason we do not recognize as such, until it's too late...

Are you going to hold a car manufacturer responsible, and jail him, if someone takes their particular name brand vehicle and deliberately uses that car to run over and kill another person..? There has to be some kind of balance...
wb

for that argument to work. I mean...unless you're talking about outlawing all guns throughout the U.S., and confiscating those in existence (good luck on that one!), then you're talking about having more gun laws.

Which means that you'd have to tie those 30,000 deaths to the lack of some specific gun laws, and show that IF those new gun laws were in existence, then those 30,000 deaths would not occur.

That's the problem, as I see it.

Lots of people die in car accidents every year, for example. If you want to pass a specific car law in order to cut down on death from car accidents, then you have to show how that new law would cut down on the those deaths.

disc brakes, air bag laws have ALL cut down on car deaths.

Regulation works...

On Edit: Please read my proposal for a law.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3225462&mesg_id=3225462

No ban, no confiscation (unless one breaks a law), No 2nd amendment infringement just regulation and taxing appropriately. Assigning responsibility to those who must be responsible for their pathology.

Do you have any, or are you just venting?

No more gun shows. People can buy shitloads of guns and sell them on the black market.

Put a limit on how many guns a person can own. They can trade one in if they want to upgrade.

Limit magazine capacity. If this kid was shooting a six shot .38 he would have been bum rushed before he could reload.

Mandate registration and maintenance of balistics tests for all guns.

Ban hollow point, and other specialty ammo except for cops and military.

You're doing a lot more thinking than a lot of the knee-jerk gun banners around here.

I personally disagree with every one of your proposals, but there is no point in arguing about it in this forum. We'd just dig ourselves deeper and deeper into our disagreement, I'm afraid.

I will say only that what you are proposing here is politically unfeasible. If our party adopted it as our official platform, we'd lose control of Congress again. Your focus seems to be solely on the instruments themselves rather than their misuse, or identifying who is likely to misuse them.

Thanks!