Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden exceed expectations and"WIN"

these are the two winners, if any one can "win" one of these things.

Was Hillary expected to do poorly? Wasn't she the front runner? Wasn't she expected to do well? How is a good performance greater than expected?

I would agree to a certain extent, though. She did do better than the anti-Hillary impression many have formed. So, in that way, she did better than expected.

I would ad Obama to the list though. Obama has become a big sensation, he has charisma, charm and lots of appeal. However, there has been a nagging worry among many that he lacks "experience" and could not handle a national campaign.

He held his own in the debate, and in some polls actually won. Just holding his own in the debate helps Obama. As people become more comfortable with Obama he could rocket to front runner status in a few months. More debate performces like this one will help him on that score.

I personally am holding out for Clark or Gore, but I see Obama as very formidable.

but she's getting better all the time

Anyone who follows politics - especially Democratic politics - KNOW how articulate both Clinton and Biden are. It was ceetainly know surprise to the group of Dems I watched the debate with that they performed as they did.

Besides intelligence and fluency, she has a great deal of charm, as does Biden, but you would never know it here. Personally, I enjoyed Gravel the most, but Biden and Clinton were the best of the regular lot, with Obama pulling in behind them but back a ways.

I worked my ass off for Clinton/Gore years ago and have all the correspondence to prove it. Are you saying any who don't support her candidacy are just unfamiliar with her? Quite condescending if I do say so.

I can prove I worked for Clinton/Gore both times, but so what? I think her personal qualities are often misrepresented on DU. :shrug:

communications from the top including hand written notes by Bill Clinton. What qualities are you talking about that people here aren't familiar with?

WTF is your problem? This is really childish.

I never said anyone was unfamiliar with Hillary Clinton or her qualities, which would be absurd. I do contend that her negatives are over-hyped here on DU and her positives often unacknowledged, such as charm, wit and humor, for one example. She's been held to an extraordinary standard that no other candidate has had to reach. Again, I am not a Hillary supporter; this is my observation of how she is treated on DU and it's an objective one.

and Richardson was worse than I thought he would be. I didn't expect her to drewl on stage or anything but I also did expect her to be attacked a little more and to maybe stumble some due to that. On edit, I assumed Biden would do well, especially given the foreign policy subject matter. Biden is great when he is focused at a debate or specific interview. His problem is that he sometimes says goofy things when he isn't focused.

I did expect a better showing from him. I really like the guy.

but some of his answers were just terrible. White as an ideal SC Justice, I wanted to puke. I love his experience, I love his record on gay rights, I love that he legalized medical marijuana while running for President, but I sure didn't love hearing about the virtues of White and guns.

If Clark or Gore don't get in, but Richardson is closer than others, so far.

but after that I just don't know. Richardson needs to get better at this though. He needs to be a strong 4th in national polls to be able to use a strong early showing to his advantage.

To the extent that it's humanly possible in the present climate, this pair will lose. They're about as close to the nightmare ticket as you can get.

Where's their critique of the underlying evils of this horror Administration? Of of the ills of US society and its collapsed relationship with the world around it? All they offer us "business as usual" with a human face. Voters have the GOP for that, they just need to imagine the human face.

Been there, done that. Fight or lose - or scrape in by a wafer-thin margin that'll be gone before 2011 opens.

That'll never happen. if Hillary gets the nomination she will pick a westerner, Richardson or somebody like him.