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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:12 PM
Original message
Hillary's statement on the Supplamental...

“Tonight I voted against the Emergency Supplemental Appropriations Bill because it fails to compel the President to give our troops a new strategy in Iraq. I believe that the President should begin a phased redeployment of our troops out of Iraq and abandon this escalation. I fully support our troops, and wish the President had followed the will of the people and signed the original bill we sent which both funded the troops and set a new course of phased redeployment. But the President vetoed Congress’s new strategy and so Congress must reject the President’s failed policies. I will also continue to press with Senator Byrd for our legislation to end the authorization of the war in Iraq.

"While I am deeply disappointed that the supplemental does not provide for a new course in Iraq, I want to recognize the many worthy parts of this bill: funding to help those sickened in the aftermath of 9/11, additional relief for Katrina and Rita victims, homeland security funds for high-threat cities like New York City, resources to protect parts of New York affected by recent flooding, $650 million for the State Children’s Health Insurance Program, and the first federal minimum wage increase in ten years. I support these measures but cannot support this Emergency Supplemental which will not change our course in Iraq.”
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nice statement
Edited on Thu May-24-07 09:17 PM by Egnever
I am not a hillary fan really, though I would love to have a woman president. This part here though gets a +1 to her karma with me

I will also continue to press with Senator Byrd for our legislation to end the authorization of the war in Iraq.

Kind of odd though that Byrd would vote for it .
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Skink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thank God Byrd is still around.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. Yea he was great in the lead up to this
BS war. Dont know if anyone was better on the floor.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:15 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yeah right.
You and Obama didn't cast your votes until AFTER the bills passage was assured. Now you can claim you were against it.

You call yourself a leader? I call bullshit.

Real leaders lead. Collaborators triangulate.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Are you being deliberately obtuse...
Like the final outcome was EVER in any doubt...the outcome was dictated yesterday

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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Then why wait to anounce your vote?
it smells of testing the wind to me.
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draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #5
35. Hey, it takes time to analyze focus group and poll data
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:52 PM
Response to Reply #3
11. Then why not help make the case in any PUBLIC way or on the floor of the senate?
Edited on Thu May-24-07 09:53 PM by blm
The outcome was known on Kerry-Feingold last June, but Hill made sure to go the senate floor and adamantlly opposed any timetable for withdrawal then. Why not do so now and share her journey and evolution on this crucial issue of withdrawal timetables?
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:10 PM
Response to Reply #3
15. You would be a better mouthpiece for your candidate
if you didn't go straight to the ad hominem attacks. And since your support for the triangulating one is so clear and well-documented, I thought you might appreciate the info.

Why someone would so strongly support a candidate who voted for the Iraq War Resolution, I have no idea, but to each his own. I guess for every candidate who can't figure out that the intelligence for going to war was bullshit even though it was clear to millions upon millions of average people around the globe, there's going to be a few posters on DU who think said candidate would make a splendid president.

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. Not that it makes a fucking bit of difference, since we are being led by a boatload of jellyfish (or worse) who can't be bothered to work a little harder to stop a war the US electorate so clearly wanted ended last November. But if you want to support HRC, live it up.

Just sayin'.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:28 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. What ad hominem attacks?
I saw nothing in the post that would lead to that conclusion.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Elmer accused someone of being deliberately obtuse.
Which part of ad hominem does that resemble?
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #20
32. Ad hominen like calling someone a mouthpiece?
"Elmer accused someone of being deliberately obtuse."

He asked of Dr. Phool was being deliberately obtuse.

Though I will formally accuse you of being a hypocrite if it makes you happy.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #32
38. Thanks buddy!
No point bringing a gun to a knife fight, as it were.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #15
40. I feel compelled to point out that even if "the intelligence for going to war"
that we saw was bullshit, that doesn't mean we knew that there wasn't any. If you recall, the UN inspectors were still working right up to the time Bush suggested they leave, and although they hadn't found anything, they also did not view Saddam Hussein's denials as credible. It's true, you can look it up.
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motocicleta Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. It's absolutely true, and in fact I did not care whether Iraq
had WMD or not. It was more clear to me that Saddam posed a much smaller threat than, say, driving an automobile in the US. In light of this, I don't believe there is a compelling reason to vote for the IWR that can be explained in a good light.

Long way to say: I believe a vote for the IWR is a stain that will stick to a politician forever, and I am tired of Elmer being abusive to anyone who disputes that HRC is the finest candidate available. If Elmer had employed a little more tolerance earlier, I wouldn't be such a pissant now.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:35 PM
Response to Reply #3
19. Great the people goodies were included and passed!
brava!
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
6. Good for Hillary!
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:19 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks for this post!
I read Obama's as well. At least Hillary's has some meat.

Obama is still talking about how he didn't vote for the IWR in 2002. That is so deceptive, since he was not even in the Senate or privy to the intelligence. That is what really gets on my last nerve about him!

Anyway....kudos to both of them for voting the correct political strategy.........
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CTD Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Pure bullshit
If she truly felt strongly about this, she could have said something BEFORE the vote. No. Instead she waited and played it safe.

Same goes for Obama.

Neither will get my vote.
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rateyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. I'm with you...
this is nothing but sticking their finger out to see which way the political winds are blowing. The Democrats could have passed all that other stuff separately and not muddied the waters. All that other stuff was put in as a "bone" to the base hoping it would satisfy us. It's like you say: PURE BULLSHIT!!

Spineless cowards!!
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lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:00 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Looks like politics as usual.
They should have voted early before the vote had already been decided. If nothing else this causes some to wonder why they waited.
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Bullet1987 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Are you people STUPID?
The bill was going to pass REGARDLESS of when they voted!!! What part of that can't you comprehend?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Yes if only Obama and Hillary had voted 5 minutes earlier...
30 Senators might have changed their mind!!!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #14
18. Too complicated for some..
Then you have the sharpshooter who has a Kerry strategy that should've been implemented..a bit vague at justifying the rationale for the directive..oh well, maybe next time..
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #18
36. it's not complicated at all..
HRC's intentions are quite obvious.
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #13
22. Yes we are stupid
For expecting leadership from the people expecting us to maske them our leader. :eyes:

What a bunch of idiots we are
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:49 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. Wrong!
If just 41 Dems had held the line, the bill could have been filibustered.

No money for bushie's dirty fucking little war.
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CTD Donating Member (732 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 06:38 AM
Response to Reply #13
28. No. HERE's the point.
If Hillary or Obama had voted "Yes", we'd all be pissed off and they'd each lose a significant portion of her current base. But if either had come out early against this bill, she would have been (gasp) CONTROVERSIAL. They would have had to defend their position and would have been called names.

So they chose NOT to lead. NOT to fight for the right answer on this bill. But rather, once she was assured the DLC position on the bill was going to win, cast a "safe" pandering vote. People like you would praise them for it but it would require no political capital or courage.

IMO, Hillary was the even bigger coward, waiting for Obama to cast his meaningless vote before promptly casting hers.

In contrast, Russ Feingold showed leadership and courage. He was out there days early, calling the bill what it was. To a lesser degree, John Kerry in his floor speech also showed leadership and courage. A little late. But he was still out there, strongly, before any votes were cast.

Hillary and Obama merely engaged in yet another in a long series of calculated moves. And those that see these votes as "brave" have been played.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. What whine would we hear from you if they'd voted the
other way?

No pleasing some people. Being perpetually disgruntled and scolding, though, is a lousy profession. No job satisfaction, and the pay stinks.

Good grief. That's quite the post, there. Like Harry Reid doesn't know how to count....
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:29 PM
Response to Reply #9
17. Agreed. If they were true leaders, they would both have voiced opposition
and then tried to rally support for the right way to vote. No way. Neither of them has my support.

I'm glad they voted the right way in the end, but as Presidential hopefuls, I would have been impressed to see them out there from the beginning stating their positions. Hindsight is always 20/20, but the President is not going to get much of that. We're better off with good vision.
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PBass Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #17
21. Good ol' "Dammed if you do, damned if you don't".
Yesterday Senator Clinton got flogged here, even though she voted FOR the Feingold-Reid bill.

Oh, HIILARY IS PRO-WAR if I recall the thread title correctly. There was much fingerpointing about how her vote was a fraud because "she doesn't really mean it!" and garbage like that. And much hand-wringing about how today, she was going to vote for a bill she didn't vote for.

"If they were true leaders, they would both have voiced opposition"

She voted FOR the Feingold-Reid bill yesterday. That wasn't "voicing opposition" enough for you? She voted the right way on both bills, but don't let that stand in the way of a good mindless rant.

I think I need to take a break from the self-hating Democrats here, for a while.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. No one is saying Hillary is pro-war
Edited on Thu May-24-07 10:53 PM by ProudDad
She's pro-corporate but probably not pro-war any more... I don't think... If any, at least not much...

PS: Where are there self-hating Democrats???

What a silly ad hominem thing to say... :eyes:
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:16 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Oh PD where have you been?
Edited on Thu May-24-07 11:17 PM by laugle
There have been many, many threads accusing Hillary of being pro-war!

You've been here long enough to know that things can get too negative sometimes, and taking breaks is a good idea.

As far as self-hating dems, I don't know what the hell that is either!!
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Well, I guess pro-corporate
by extension can be pro-war, he-he...

When I saw self-hating dems I immediately though of the Israeli lobby's ad homonym retort of "self hating Jew" they lob at anyone Jewish who isn't 100% behind the fascist government of Israel... Pretty stupid.

Taking breaks and maintaining a sense of humor is ALWAYS a good idea.

We briefly talked with Mike Malloy in Phoenix a few weeks ago and my suspicion was verified that the only way he keeps sane is that he's got a finely honed sense of humor and is more than willing to laugh at it all...just like me...

So to all, hang in there and laugh, laugh, laugh...
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laugle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-26-07 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #30
39. Yeah.....I worry about Malloy, he takes things a little
Edited on Sat May-26-07 05:39 PM by laugle
too personal. He's only one person and we must save the world collectivly.

Don't get me started on Israel, I'm Jewish and I don't agree with Israel 100%, nor am I a self-hating Jew.

We won't get into the fascist part......please..........be nice....

Bill Clinton will clean it up!! LOL
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:59 PM
Response to Reply #21
26. All I'm saying is voicing opposition SOONER would have given that
message to the American people (those who weren't too busy watching American Idol). I'm saying, Obama and Clinton both had an opportunity to LEAD on this instead of just voting no (which was the right thing to do). They are running for President. Leadership is an important aspect of the job. A little more is expected of them when they are running for the highest office.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
23. Good for her!
I still wish the Dems had shown some courage in the face of the idiot king but kudos to those with the courage to vote no...

Kudos to Obama too for voting no.
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bklyncowgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
29. Did she have another one prepared in case Obama voted the other way & she followed suit?
Just wondering.
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BrokenBeyondRepair Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:02 PM
Response to Original message
31. a leader? lol..
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DU GrovelBot  Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 03:04 PM
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hijinx87 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 06:00 PM
Response to Reply #33
37. do you run on gas?
I would have hoped that you were a hybrid. :evilgrin:
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