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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:50 PM
Original message
Jim Webb's statement on the Supplamental...

I worked very hard to try to persuade the Democratic leadership to include clear, restrictive language in this Supplemental. I did not succeed, and was disappointed in many of the provisions that remained. However, we are working under the reality that, on the issue of Iraq, this Senate does not have a Democratic majority. From the outset, we are a minority of 49, given Senator Lieberman's position on the war. This reality dictates our conduct. On the one hand, I find myself unable to vote against a measure that is necessary to fund our troops who are now in harm's way. On the other, I will not relent from my continuing efforts to bring this occupation to an end.

I will continue to press for a strategy of strong diplomatic engagement, which will enable us to end the occupation of Iraq, to increase regional stability, to fight international terrorism more effectively, and to address our broad strategic interests around the world.

My efforts will continue with the Defense Authorization Bill, which will soon be debated on the Senate floor. This week, I introduced a restrictive amendment during the Armed Services Committee's mark-up of that bill. I withdrew the amendment during the mark-up process due to a technical objection, but I intend to offer this amendment on the floor of the Senate when the Defense Authorization bill comes up for debate in the coming weeks.


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AnOhioan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Empty words
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Hardly...nt
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Between the rock and the hard place theres very little wiggle room..
Bush stated at the Press Conference today, if the Iraqi's ask us to leave; we'll leave..

Well, theres some new earth to cultivate. When they ask us to leave...we'll see if another big ass Lie won't sink him.

The Iraqis have nothing to lose by expediting that statement, whether they're ready or not..is of no consequence, because we know Bush won't leave. It will accomplish one thing..pointing up his sociopathic tendency to Lie to the American people.

And perhaps have some vindication value for the Senators who voted FOR the War.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:06 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. Webb truly believes...
Cutting off funding is inappropriate, and a sledge hammer approach to ending the war...he has very good ideas on how it should be handled if people would bother to look...
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 09:31 AM
Response to Reply #8
23. This is starting to get confusing..
Edited on Fri May-25-07 10:11 AM by Tellurian
There are so many Bills, Supplementals etc.. we can hardly keep up.

When you said read Jim Webb's Supplemental, I thought there was a newer one than you posted on 5/23
and the reason for asking...where? Are we all caught up now? Or am I still missing something?
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fedupinBushcountry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Agree
and he is my Senator. *sigh*
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:55 PM
Response to Original message
4. I respect Webb's opinion, and his willingness and ability to
recognize reality. He's one of the few Senators who are willing to stand up to the Pubs and tell them they're wrong. I really do believe by Sept. we will se a lot more Pubs willing to sign onto ending this mess in Iraq!
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stevedeshazer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
5. If he worked so freaking hard AGAINST it, why did he vote FOR it?
:grr:

I'm really fed up with all this dancing around.

I had high hopes for Senator Webb. I guess he's just another war supporter like George Allen without the macaca. If he votes the same way, what the hell is the difference?

I withdrew it before I intended to offer it?

The White House staff must be dancing a very happy dance tonight.

What a sellout.
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. You must not have been paying much attention to Webb's campaign
If you are surprised by his vote. He has always made clear exactly what he expressed today: he is opposed to war, thinks it was a mistake and believes we need to change course -- but he also is opposed to immediate withdrawal.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:03 PM
Response to Original message
7. The veterans all voted FOR the bill. I cut Webb and Murtha some slack--
they obviously didn't feel that opposing this bill would do any good. I believe they voted their consciences--as did most Dems. This was a tough vote. I won't hold it against anyone.
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LBJDemocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
13. Me too. Byrd also voted for it...
Not a veteran but definitely one of the more trustworthy senators.
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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #7
14. So now you don't count Kerry as a veteran? He voted no. n/t
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. I do--just forgot that he was a vet, that's all! He stood on principle,
and I applaud him for it, but the others obviously had reservations about voting no, and I respect that.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:08 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's okay, he owns a
day.

Truly disappointing show by Democrats, no excuse for it.

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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Pretty stunning...
That you think a guy who actually has a kid deployed in Iraq, would be playing with his life...

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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Who said he's playing?
He's wrong and admits this is a weak policy.

Bush is the one playing games. Webb is wrong, and obviously unable to see that Bush will continue failing the troops. Do they even have guarantees that the funds will be spent appropriately? Bush hasn't given them the proper armor. The other day we heard about meal shortages.

Like Feingold said, this was a collapse of the Democrats.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. You...
"They can each own a day's worth of news from Iraq through the end of September. Tomorrow is you day Sen. Akaka.

Stop playing Bush's game with soldiers' lives."
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. The game is Bush's n/t
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. And you are asking Senators...
To stop playing Bush's game...how can they stop something they haven't started?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-24-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Stop playing Bush's game
means stop playing into Bush's hand. Damn, what don't you get? The Democrats screwed up! Bush got them to back down.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 12:38 AM
Response to Reply #16
20. It's also Lieberman's game.
I think the Dem Senators are afraid that if they push too hard, he will switch parties. That would make the Senate 50/50 with Cheney casting the tie breaking votes.

It is such a fragile majority.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 09:08 AM
Response to Original message
21. This is what it's all about:
"However, we are working under the reality that, on the issue of Iraq, this Senate does not have a Democratic majority. From the outset, we are a minority of 49, given Senator Lieberman's position on the war. This reality dictates our conduct."

We cannot end the war until we have a Democratic President AND the majority in Congress.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #21
25. WHAT???? He is saying he won't vote against something because
we don't have the votes? Horseshit. He is saying he voted yes, along with the war profiteers because there weren't enough votes to deny passage? That's a boldfaced lie. You vote the way you believe. Force the opponents to prove they have the votes. Show us democrats that you are on our side to the f**** end. Do not capitulate. Instead he made it look like the President is in total control and all the democrats are going along. He voted yes because he didn't have the fortitude to stand up against those that might criticize him by saying he is unpatriotic. BUT HE AND THE REST ARE UNPATRIOTIC. THEY CHOOSE WAR PROFITS OVER LIVES.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Use your head
There is no way that we can end the war now because we don't have the political power. Why is that so hard to see?

I want out of Iraq as much as anyone. The American people want out of Iraq. All that is obvious. What apparently isn't so obvious to people is that with a one vote majority (Lieberman, by the way, who is fighting tooth and nail to keep us there) we do not have the political power to get out of this mess.

How in the hell do you get out of this mess if we don't have the power to do so? And don't tell me they should have voted against the bill on principal. That accomplishes bupkiss. If you want out of Iraq then you're going to have to work to get a Dem elected president and at the same time hold on to a majority in Congress.

That is the only way.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 10:28 AM
Response to Reply #26
27. Tell me what it would have hurt for him to vote no. Please tell me.
So we don't win the vote, at least show how you feel. At least show us that elected you that you support us not the President. He supported the President in lieu of the Country. Why? He didn't want to be on the losing side of the vote.

so we should close our eyes to the death in Iraq and wait until 2008. Sorry not me. I don't believe in keeping power dry.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. How is it closing your eyes?
We can cut funding and leave the guys in Iraq underequipped. Bush isn't pulling them out any time soon. Or we can work to get Dems elected so we have the power to get the hell out of Iraq. We can continue to cry about it or we can set our sights on actually being able to achieve something. And that something isn't possible until after the election and that still depends on Democratic control of Congress and the Whitehouse. Until that time we are stuck.

If you want to blame someone blame Bush. He's the one who lied to get us into the war. He's the one fighting tooth and nail to keep us in it. And he's the one who vetoed the bill to begin with. The first bill was the statement that you are looking for. It sent a message and it put the onus on the GOP. A no vote now achieves nothing.

This "Dems caved" and "Dems are weak" arguement works great if you're a right winger and you want to make the Dems look bad. If you're a Dem then it's not so advantageous.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. Of course the right wing are happy the dems caved, I am not. Are you?
You said the "we can cut funding and leave the guys in Iraq under equipped." That's a Fox talking point if i ever heard one. The troops have enough funding and equipment to leave, that's all they need. If we give any more, Bush will use it to prolong the war. Stopping funding is the ONLY recourse we have. It is the only Constitutional oversight that is allowed and the democrats refuse to use it.

Let me guess your solution. Do nothing until 2008. So what if more die. And in 2008 if the neocon nazi's allow a vote and if they don't steal the election then we can really use our dry f**** powder.

And for the record i do blame Bush for lying. But in some ways i blame the democrats who are supposed to keep him in check for believing the lies, more. Especially when there were those of us yelling at the top of our lungs "The bastards are lying". And now they have the audacity to say "if they only knew then what they know now". I say or if you only listened then we might not have lost our democracy.
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auburngrad82 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #29
31. Oh, bullshit.
Believe what you want to believe but I can guarantee you that we will be in Iraq until at least 2009 because the Dems do not have enough political power to force a withdrawal. Stopping the funding is not a valid option. Bush will just shift money from other things like education and environmental protection, etc to fund the war. Do you honestly believe that cutting funding will have any impact except the obvious one of putting the Democrats in a position to lose control of Congress again? And are you ready for the consequences if we do lose control? Then we will NEVER leave Iraq.
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
30. Would it have hurt him to vote no? nm
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Totally Committed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
22. Bullsh*t.
Absolute and utter BULLSH*T.

TC
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rhett o rick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-25-07 09:58 AM
Response to Original message
24. He should be on Fox. Total bullshit. nm
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