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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:48 AM
Original message
Obama: Favors for now-indicted Developer...contradicting earlier statements?


Obama's letters for Rezko
NOT A FAVOR? | As a state senator, he went to bat for now-indicted developer's deal


As a state senator, Barack Obama wrote letters to city and state officials supporting his political patron Tony Rezko's successful bid to get more than $14 million from taxpayers to build apartments for senior citizens.

The deal included $855,000 in development fees for Rezko and his partner, Allison S. Davis, Obama's former boss, according to records from the project, which was four blocks outside Obama's state Senate district.

Obama's letters, written nearly nine years ago, for the first time show the Democratic presidential hopeful did a political favor for Rezko -- a longtime friend, campaign fund-raiser and client of the law firm where Obama worked -- who was indicted last fall on federal charges that accuse him of demanding kickbacks from companies seeking state business under Gov. Blagojevich.

The letters appear to contradict a statement last December from Obama, who told the Chicago Tribune that, in all the years he's known Rezko, "I've never done any favors for him.''

...

Boneheaded' deal in 2005
Since announcing his presidential bid, Obama has faced repeated questions about his 17-year relationship with Rezko, one of his earliest political contributors, who has raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Obama.

Rezko backed Obama's election to the Illinois Senate in 1996, his successful re-election bids and his 2004 election to the U.S. Senate.

Two years ago, the two men were involved in a real estate deal that Obama later apologized for, calling it "boneheaded'' and a "mistake'' because the transaction occurred while Rezko was widely known to be under federal investigation. Rezko's wife paid full price for a vacant lot in Chicago's historic Kenwood district on the same day Obama bought the mansion next door from the same property owner for $300,000 below the asking price. Rezko's wife subsequently sold a sliver of the land to Obama.



Since 'guilt by association' seems to be the DU standard, seems only fair to spread the love around a bit!


http://www.suntimes.com/news/politics/425305,CST-NWS-obama13.article
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. oopsie
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:55 AM
Response to Original message
2. So you get your jollies from this, SaveElmer?
I'm assuming the right wing won't bring up the Marc Rich pardon or the pardons given to friends of Bill and Hillary's brothers, right?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. The right wing doesn't need to bring them up...DU does the job for them...
nt
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. So in other words,
no one should bring up these stories, DU or no DU?

You seemed to be jumping up and down over this story.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. SImply spreading it around....
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 11:04 AM by SaveElmer
Since these kinds of posts are generally directed toward one of our candidates disproportionately...most often it seems, by supporters of this candidate...
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Scriptor Ignotus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #6
60. I support Obama (and still do)
and I don't have a problem with you or anyone else posting things like this at all. Let's get it all out there and digest the information accordingly.

There will be a lot more dirt flying in the months to come...
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rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #5
10. "no one should bring up these stories, DU or no DU?"
Kind of talking yourself into a circle aren't you?

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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #10
65. No, just stating a fact.
If you're going to bring up Obama stories, then I'm sure the Marc Rich pardon story will appear again as well as the missing billing records.

None of the leading candidates are clean; however, you make it seem that Hillary is immune to these stories. Well, she's not.
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
68. I personally don't give a damn who did something. If its wrong,
don't do it. If you get found out, then stand up like a man and resolve it. Our guys, when they do something wrong, aren't exempt. Its interesting that we are called upon to give the benefit of the doubt or we're told we're disloyal or evil if we mention something about our guys. Yet we do this to theirs constantly. I dislike wrongdoing period. I don't care who does it. My guys I hold to a higher standard. If Mr. Obama is innocent, he can prove it. If he did wrong, he must rectify it. I don't care when its made public nor who it is about. Wrongdoing sucks. Fix it and move on. Either we are the justice people or we aren't.
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habitual Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #2
7. i appreciate the information
it gives me more data to make decisions with. What is wrong with that?
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. do you finger wag in every thread where something about Hillary is posted?
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GeorgeGist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. Your point is well...
... taken for granted.

There is no real quarrel between right and left ... when greed and corruption are an advantage.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #2
21. Instead of defending Obamas action, you bring up the Clinton's. How quaint.
But thats what happens when you have nothing to say about what the thread is actually about. :eyes:
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:20 PM
Response to Reply #21
27. Clinton's Problems are more than Quaint. It will be a nightmare
in the end. Trust me.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. To bad we are not talking about the Clintons.
So what say you about Obama? That is what the thread is about.
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
4. All politics is corruption...........
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 10:59 AM by Double T
I would just like to see ONE politician step up and make a sincere effort to change the corrupt system. Oh, and Obama certainly ISN'T the ONE!
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:14 PM
Response to Reply #4
20. Open the books on BushInc and the corruption exposed will end alot of careers of
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 12:15 PM by blm
GOPs and some powerful Dems who've been protecting them.

It will also end alot of the careers of the terrorists who have been financed for decades by BushInc and their cronies.

http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #20
71. Who Would Those 'Powerful Dems' Be, Ma'am?
"Enquiring minds want to know."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:05 PM
Response to Reply #71
74. People can figure out on their own which Democrats have stood by the Bushes more
than others, and who neglected the crimes of office more than others.

They just first have to CARE enough about corruption and open government.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #74
76. No Democrats Have 'Stood By the Bushes', Ma'am, To My Knowledge
This sort of vague insinuendo really will not do....

"Kill one, warn one hundred."
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. well, have you contacted good journalists who HAVE reported on this?
Or do you prefer to blame me for agreeing with their observations?

Have you told Brinkley, Parry and Woodward that they are all mistaken and their articles just 'won't do' here at DU?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #81
82. Their Claims, Ma'am, Mostly Unsourced, Do Not Much Impress Me
And admit of a variety of interpretations besides those you prefer, for reasons best known to yourself, to place, and place incessantly, on them.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #82
85. You incessantly believe/post what you want, and I believe in the integrity of Parry and Brinkley.
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 02:36 PM by blm
And do so because the record supports their observations.

If you have proof that points otherwise, then why not share it? Surely if proof existed it would be a highlight in the autobiographical books written by those you DO trust and whose interests you protect here?
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #85
86. Whose 'Interests' Do You Suppose Me To Protect Here, Ma'am?
"These are deep waters...."
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #76
93. A'hem........Joe Lieberman, for one.
There are many others that support bushco by what they don't do, that they should do. Remember, most of the washington political crew are lawyers first and politicians second; they'll do 'battle' all day long and have drinks and dinner together after 5:00 PM.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #93
95. He Is Not A Democrat, Sir
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amandabeech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #4
101. Well, Biden said that he wants publicly-financed elections in the NH debate.
There weren't too many attaboys on the stage.

I generally don't like Biden due to an incident that the senator had with a friend, but I have to give him credit for at least mentioning the problem.

It'd be a real job to change, though. Constitutional amendments are tough to get through. But then, just about all voters are damned sick of the current system, and I think that some of the pols are, too.

Dialing for dollars all day just can't be much fun.
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
9. after all the hi-fives from the left over Mark Penn, Carville favoring pardoning Libby, etc.
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 11:13 AM by wyldwolf
... we get successive days of Obama with Powell, Obama's top lawyer favoring a Libby pardon, and Obama being more involved with a crook (who also raised money for Bush) than he let on originally.


And people expect it all to be waved aside as though it's all OK?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:39 AM
Response to Original message
12. Obama's squeaky clean image...Tarnished by upcoming scandal?
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 11:40 AM by Tellurian
...backtracking a bit to April 27 2007. This scandal has been brewing for a very long time..Now Libby prosecutor Fitzgerald is involved..

"Kudos to the Chicago aldermen who are asking some of the same questions we had in response to a Sun-Times investigation published earlier this week: Why did the city and state continue to provide loans, grants and tax credits to projects that involved Tony Rezko when the city at the same time was suing his company in Housing Court for basics such as no heat? Why didn’t the city shut off the spigot as soon as his buildings ran into problems? Didn’t one city department know what another department was doing?”

“The investigation by reporter Tim Novak found that Rezko’s development company, Rezmar Corp., got more than $100 million in government and private loans between 1989 and 1998 to renovate 30 apartment buildings for poor people. The projects quickly ran into trouble, and Rezmar was sued repeatedly by the city. Yet the city continued making deal after deal with Rezmar, which was paid nearly $7 million in development fees on the projects.”

And,

“Another is presidential hopeful Sen. Barack Obama, who received more than $50,000 from the same sources between 1998 and 2004. Obama already has been forced to answer questions about a real estate deal between him and Rezko, a longtime friend, contributor and fund-raiser. In addition to that connection, Novak reported this week that Obama did previously undisclosed legal work for some of Rezko’s housing development projects. He insists it was only five hours of work and that he was unaware of problems at the projects, even though 11 of them were in the state Senate district he used to represent. There’s nothing illegal about the work, but his efforts to dodge Novak’s questions about it make it appear as if he has something to hide.”

http://www.suntimes.com/news/commentary/360441,CST-EDT-edits27a.article

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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
15. Nope
He brought all of this is before nothing new. Keep trying Tell.
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:28 PM
Original message
What squeaky clean image?
They're politicians. They all do things below the ethics lines.

Remember the Marc Rich pardons? The pardons that friends of Hillary's brothers received?

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
91. It's a given, Republicans do..
but not democrats..Democrats Fire criminals; Republicans HIRE them!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
105. Obama's House deal developing...
If Obama has nothing to hide, why the stonewalling of "answers" to the Chicago Sun-Times?

"As is pointed out in Post #12, the media are examining the circumstances of Obama’s house purchase. Republicans will examine and exploit the story too. It is imperative that presidential candidate Obama explain clearly and quickly all the circumstances surrounding his purchase of his house.

The actual Obama house story stripped to its essentials actually appears to be rather simple:

(a) Barack Obama and/or his wife decided they wanted to buy a certain house — but unfortunately the house cost $2,305,000;

(b) the Obamas either did not want to have the appearance of such luxury digs snuff out their Lincolnesqe facade or they actually did not have the money;

(c) in either case, Barack Obama somehow saw the deal to a successful end when the sellers of the house divided the property into 2 separate lots;

(d) one lot contained the house and;

(e) the other lot contained the large yard;

(f) the Obamas then purchased the lot with the house (at a discount of $300,000) for $1.65 million;

(g) they were happy; (h) on the very same exact day a rich friend of Obama purchased the lot with the yard at full price ($625,000);

(i) eventually Obama would buy from his friend a chunk of the yard.

While the story appears simple, upon examination it becomes at least sordid:


READ HERE before proceeding:

Barack Obama worked at a politically connected law firm. One of the clients was a close friend as well as an eventual fundraiser of millions of dollars for Obama and his political campaigns. This same friend for whom Obama did legal work, was also a slumlord. The slumlord obained many subsidies from the government for his housing business. This part of the story is still unclear since the Obama campaign and his former law firm are stonewalling the Chicago Sun-Times. We therefore do not know the full extent of Obama’s knowledge of the business dealings of his slumlord friend. The slumlord’s name is Rezko.

In June 2005, in order to be able to buy his house, Obama asked Rezko to buy the lot with the yard. Rezko apparently agreed and asked his wife to be the actual buyer. Rezko paid full price for his lot and Obama got a discount for his own lot on which the house stood.

In 2006, now U.S. Senator Obama became even closer, if possible, to Rezko. Years of shady activities, such as influence-peddling, were catching up with Rezko however. By late 2006 news reports indicated a possible indictment by the U.S. prosecutor.

Knowing of the investigation by the Feds and of Rezko’s possible indictment Obama persisted in asking to buy a portion of the yard which Rezko’s wife owned. Rezko’s wife agreed to sell Obama some of the yard. Soon thereafter Rezko was indicted.

Rezko will come to trial just as primary season gets underway in early 2008. The Office of U.S. Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is expected to do its usual through job. For Obama, media coverage of the trial will highlight aspects of his life story he does not wish to highlight.

A log cabin was the way to go."



.. to be continued..
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:57 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm reading that Obama successfully raised money
to provide new housing to senior citizens.

I guess *scandal* is in the eye of the beholder.
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. I Guess you are right
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. I suggest you read the OP
or re-read it..
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
29. And I suggest you read the article
"This wasn't done as a favor for anyone," Burton said in a written statement. "It was done in the interests of the people in the community who have benefited from the project.

"I don't know that anyone specifically asked him to write this letter nine years ago," the statement said. "There was a consensus in the community about the positive impact the project would make and Obama supported it because it was going to help people in his district. . . . They had a wellness clinic and adult day-care services, as well as a series of social services for residents. It's a successful project. It's meant a lot to the community, and he's proud to have supported it.''

The development, called the Cottage View Terrace apartments, opened five years ago at 4801 S. Cottage Grove, providing 97 apartments for low-income senior citizens.

Asked about the Obama letters, Rezko's attorney, Joseph Duffy, said Tuesday, "Mr. Rezko never spoke with, nor sought a letter from, Senator Obama in connection with that project."


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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #29
89. Burton is a crook...google him and get back to me!
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:54 PM
Response to Reply #89
102. Burton isn't a crook, you are just blowing smoke...AGAIN
If you have evidence to the contrary, please enlighten me. Otherwise, try again.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Where Mr. Rezko Is Involved, Ma'am
You may be sure the monies paid were appreciably in excess of the actual costs plus reasonable profit, and of the real worth of whatever benefit, if any, was actually providedly the elderly. The man is something of a legend hereabouts....
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #19
36. From what I've heard, Rezco practically owns half of Chicago
It wouldn't make sense to me for a state senator to refuse to support a worthwhile project, simply because Rezco was involved in the development. Plus, that all occurred well before Rezco was indicted.
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Plus it happened when HIS BOSS was Rezko's partner in the deal.
I'm just not seeing any gotcha with this.
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
66. That Would Be the Rubloff Company, Ma'am
That is not what Mr. Rezko is: he is one of the 'fixers' that hover about our state government, in with whomever it develops is in charge, getting first crack at state funds expended in various public works, and invariably taking a rake-off exceeding the liberal standards of 'honest graft' for the privilege....
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:00 PM
Response to Reply #66
109. Ahhh, thanks for the clarification
My point remains, though. Why would Obama not promote a project that aids senior citizens in Illinois, solely because it would be contracted to Rezko? Wouldn't the alternative have been not promoting the project at all? He wasn't the AG, didn't work in law enforcement, wasn't investigating Rezko, and he wasn't making the contracting decisions. He was a state senator trying to get a project aproved for his constituents.

This appears to be a lot of smoke, with no fire.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:32 PM
Response to Reply #19
38. Thanks, as always, for your input Magistrate..
look for incoming..
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #38
69. This Does Not Particularly Trouble Me, Sir
It is pretty much the norm in Illinois political life, and nothing about it inclines to believe Sen. Obama is corrupt personally, or has done anything of real signifigance for Mr. Rezko. It is, though, the sort of thing that can be made into a nine-days' wonder by persons of hostile intent, and as Sen. Obama's candidacy develops further, he is going to have to put this thing to rest.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #69
79. I'm a bit more cynical than you, methinks..
after "living" through the persecution of the Clintons happening in the 90's and what they went through. They were under investigation for assumptions, far less than what has been disclosed here about Obama's dubious relationship with a known criminal sleaze ball.

The telltales signs I see, is Obama should have put this to rest long ago. He hasn't. Why he hasn't, becomes...he can't... He can't, becomes because....and that is where the problem yet to be revealed lies. Obama is an intelligent attorney...he knows the drill, even if his criminal prosecution experience is limited. So far all he's done is placate the masses with empty platitudes. Not a very smart position to take when there is questionable wrongdoing with state government that has to be explained away with reliable sources and empirical evidence.. I expect bank accounts will be subpoenaed for cross referencing for times and dates etc. and God knows what this thing will unravel. This event has well muscled "legs" big, strong, sturdy, legs prepared for a marathon run..
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The Magistrate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #79
83. If You Can Manage That, Sir, You Have My Deepest Sympathies
"An idealist is a person who, on noticing a rose smells better than a cabbage, concludes it will make a better soup."
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #83
87. But I'm a Realist, Sir..
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 02:47 PM by Tellurian
I treasure the rose in a crystal vase, making Borscht out of the cabbage, and never confuse the highest and best use of either.
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Baltimore Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 10:53 AM
Response to Reply #69
123. In Chicago
As one of the posters on MyDD said, in Chicago this kind of thing is a non-story unless 5-0 are actually breaking down your door.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #13
110. If you're not teary eyed by the end of the Obama-Rezko story..
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 11:12 PM by Tellurian
"For more than five weeks during the brutal winter of 1997, tenants shivered without heat in a government-subsidized apartment building on Chicago's South Side.

It was just four years after the landlords -- Antoin "Tony'' Rezko and his partner Daniel Mahru -- had rehabbed the 31-unit building in Englewood with a loan from Chicago taxpayers.


"Senator Obama does not remember having conversations with Tony Rezko about properties that he owned" — Obama’s campaign staff on Sunday.


Rezmar kept getting city and state funding, even as earlier projects fell into disrepair and financial troubles.
Rezko and Mahru couldn't find money to get the heat back on.

But their company, Rezmar Corp., did come up with $1,000 to give to the political campaign fund of Barack Obama, the newly elected state senator whose district included the unheated building.


Obama has been friends with Rezko for 17 years. Rezko has been a political patron to Obama and many others, helping to raise millions of dollars for them through his own contributions and by hosting fund-raisers in his home.

Obama, who has worked as a lawyer and a legislator to improve living conditions for the poor, took campaign donations from Rezko even as Rezko's low-income housing empire was collapsing, leaving many African-American families in buildings riddled with problems -- including squalid living conditions, vacant apartments, lack of heat, squatters and drug dealers.

The building in Englewood was one of 30 Rezmar rehabbed in a series of troubled deals largely financed by taxpayers. Every project ran into financial difficulty. More than half went into foreclosure, a Chicago Sun-Times investigation has found.

"Their buildings were falling apart,'' said a former city official. "They just didn't pay attention to the condition of these buildings.''

Eleven of Rezko's buildings were in Obama's state Senate district.
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
14. Bill and Hillary's Affairs are worst than this
He has nothing to worry about.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
22. When Fitzgerald gets involved...you can continue to delude yourself..
Obama is involved waist deep in his pushing coal endeavor and neck deep here..

“Will Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald Destroy The Obama Campaign?” The legendary Patrick Fitzgerald indicted and convicted top Vice President Cheney aide Lewis “Scooter” Libby. Fitzgerald has now set his relentless prosecutorial eyes on a new target.

Fitzgerald’s United States Federal Prosecutor Office for Illinois has filed a 65 page indictment of Antoin “Tony” Rezko .

The trial has been scheduled for February 25, 2008 by U.S. District Judge Amy St. Eve. Judge Eve called the trial date of Febuary 25, 2008 a firm date. The trial preparations and news will coincide with the first Democratic Primaries and Caucuses in January and February 2008. The headlines are sure to draw attention to Obama’s shady deals with Rezko in the purchase of Obama’s $1.65 million house.

http://chicagobusiness.com/downloads/rezkoindict.pdf
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #22
58. I don't think it's Obama that he has his sights on
although if something is discovered along those lines, I have no doubt the Fitzy would persue it. On the other hand, Blago and Daley need to be extra cautious.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:33 PM
Response to Reply #58
84. I don't think so either..
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 02:39 PM by Tellurian
but discovery may reveal some things we didn't really expect to know about Obama. He is the most secretive candidate in the race, akin to the current administrations policies of secrecy. I hate seeing donors who really need that $20 to be donating to someone that isn't worthy of their sacrifice. With his campaign asking for contributions to support his candidacy for the highest office in the land...Therefore, imo, it is of major importance to reconcile this cloud hanging over his head once and for all.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #14
23. see post #21. nt.
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:10 PM
Response to Original message
17. Let's See
Hillary was directly involved in White Water. A guy died. Which was is worst. One person when to jail.

Who has the best image. I believe Hillary's name was all over White Water.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. see post #21.
BTW even though it's not desereved Hows that whitewater thing doing? :rofl:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. And...Whitewater turned out to be a wastewater of Taxpayer dollars..
or are you conveniently forgetting the outcome of $100+ investigation? hmmm?
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. No I am not One guy took his life
because of the corruption. That is the outcome. A lost of life.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #28
35. Too much of this will affect your vision..
:spray:
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #26
94. BINGO
what do you think thisis when it comes to Obama?

A waste of time, being gleefully spread about because of Obama's threat to Hillary's inevitability.

It's cheap pandering, and it's what Hillary's supporters here are really good at.

Which leads me to wonder, what are the REST of Hillary's supporters like? DU's "best and brightest" aren't doing her any favors, that's for sure.

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:47 PM
Response to Reply #94
113. Wrongo..
Obama's problems are of his own doing. No one, certainly not the Clintons are responsible for Obama's problematic issues.

My interest is helping to elect the best candidate for the job of the presidency next election cycle. Do we or don't we have the Right to know as much as possible about the candidates running for election? I take it that would be a yes, that would be the correct answer and yours as well. The Clintons have had their investigations. Edwards was scrutinized during his last election run and continues to be so.. What do we know about Obama? Only what he's told us on the stump and in his 2 books...he authored himself!

So, my friend, there is much room between the cup and the lip, and that is the information I want to know about..for now.
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illinoisprogressive Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. everyone knows this was a plant by clinton camp. it is very old news.
the clinton camp has made it known they will keep retreading it to try to destroy Obama.
However, everyone knows this and that it's a lame attempt by a lame candidate who is desparate.
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
30. I agree. It is. However, The Clintons have more to lose
than Obama.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
32. yeah, the only thing they lose is BO..
my BAD!

:crazy:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:22 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. You better get reading..
this thread...when an indictment has come down it isn't to be taken lightly when a presidential hopeful IS involved!

Especially, when Obama is an advocate of clean government and Integrity as planks in his campaign platform!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #25
34. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:13 PM
Response to Reply #34
47. Hey thats my line!
"I guess you are attempting the tried and true "repeat it often enough and people will think it's true" routine perfected by our friends on the far right!!!". :rofl: :hi:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #25
41. And the Obama camp does not do it to Hillary?
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ieoeja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #25
78. Plant?

A guy named Novak working for the Chicago Sun-Times spins a minor connection a Democrat has with a crook, and it just HAS to be those evil Clintons, huh?

I don't know if Tim Novak of the Chicago Sun-Times is related to Bob Novak of the Chicago Sun-Times, but they are both partisan Republicans. They don't need the Clintons whispering in their ears to attack a Democrat.


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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
37. The Hillarians are extra-aggressive today
What's wrong, is Obama raising too much money again?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:33 PM
Response to Reply #37
39. Nothing to do with Obama...
More to do with his supporters...
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:18 PM
Response to Reply #39
103. I can relate to that
Some of Hillary's supporters have done far more to lower my opinion of their candidate than Hillary could possibly do herself.

Until now, you were above this, SaveElmer, and I respected your approach. This is disappointing, but I take heart in the fact that you obviously find Obama to be enough of a threat that you are willing to post an article that is clearly slanted, in an effort to discredit him. Cool for you, cool for me.

The victimized Hillary thing has been played to the limit here, particularly in light of both the number and ferocity of attacks her supporters are dishing out. I realize she is receiving her fair share of criticism and critique (and some of it is unfair), but no more and no less than one would expect for a *frontrunner* candidate.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #103
121. When a simple defense based on facts does not work...
When accusations that have been debunked time and time again continue to be posted as fact for example...sometimes it is useful to provide those doing it with a little "taste of their own medicine."

I generally try to avoid posting anything unfairly negative about the other candidates, a restarint that does not apply to Hillary around here unfortunately, but I also will fight fire with fire when necessary....

I've posted enough about how I really feel about Obama that those supporters of his that do not engage in this type of stuff probably know it is not directed at Obama specifically but a certain subset of his supporters...
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. Whats wrong can't defend what he did?
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 12:46 PM by William769
So you change the subject. that seems to happen alot in Obama threads. I wonder why?
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #42
43. Still looking for a "there" there
Obama has enormous credibility on the question of working for what's right for the South Side of Chicago; if he (and many other officials) thought the project was needed, that's more than enough to get him through this soon-to-disappear story.

The only people who think this is serious are guys who write stuff like this:

<'We don't need an African-American Bill Clinton in the White House, who thinks that he has a ‘license to lie' as he seeks the nation's highest office.>

http://www.pr-inside.com/chicago-sun-times-publishes-new-links-r153043.htm

Nice crowd you travel with there, Will.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #43
45. If your referring to Bill Clinton as being in my crowd, I'll take that as a compliment!
This story will not go away, it's only the beginning.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #42
44. Defend what he did????
What the hell did he do? If you actually read the article he was pushing for a development project that benefited and was strongly wanted by the community!!!!! I ask you what did he do???? or do you just like attacking anyone threating Clinton's campaign. Ohh and don't give me that sh!t about Obama supporters attacking Clinton. I haven't read nearly so many threads attacking Clinton as you guys put out on Obama and Edwards.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:06 PM
Response to Reply #44
46. To begin with spell checker is you friend.
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 01:09 PM by William769
The property he bought from the weasel is what he did (or did you just conveniently forget that?). As to your last sentence apparently you don't read much here then. :eyes: And notice I stayed on topic.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Don't be snarky about my spelling
So Obama bought a piece of land to make is back yard bigger...hmmm since his old college buddy owned the property connected to his yard then.. who the hell else was he going to buy the land from. Is it a crime to buy a sliver of land from someone when they are a being brought up on charges. Obama made a bad political move(since the Clinton camp is on the attack with it) but did he do anything wrong.. No it looks like he didn't.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #50
52. And now we start connecting the dots.
There you go with Clinton again about an Obama thread. Will you all ever learn.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:25 PM
Response to Reply #52
56. You don't get it do you...
This thread is about Clinton... Her people are scared of Obama. They are responsible for pushing this wannabe scandal to the for front of conversation (see this post for details)


Why didn't you respond to what I said... ohh that's right.. don't respond to my counter arguments just use the fact that I mentioned Clinton to ignore the other things I said.

Just admit you guys are grasping at straws.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. You obviously don't get it...
Obama supporters can dish out the innuendo, false charges and findings of 'guilt by association'...but they just can't take it...


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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 02:13 AM
Response to Reply #57
115. Evidence of Clinton bashing????
I hear this strawman argument all the time show me recent links!!!!
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #115
117. The topic is about Obama and his dealings with Rezko..
If you have nothing to add, you'll have to take your request to another thread.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:43 AM
Response to Reply #117
127. You Clintonistas can't make outrageous claims about
Obama supporters bashing Clinton and then say that we shouldn't be talking about the outrageous claims.


If this thread isn't about Clinton than why do all of you Clintonistas keep bringing up her alleged attacks when your weak attack against Obama is debunked???


You can't have it both ways. I am still waiting for those links.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #127
130. Obama is the topic of this thread..
scroll to the OP if you have any doubts.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #56
59. This thread is about Clinton?
"Obama: Favors for now-indicted Developer...contradicting earlier statements?" Can I have some of what you are smoking?
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #59
70. Didn't you know...
EVERY thread is about CLinton...it is the default defense of t he "progressive" crowd whenever one of the anointed favorites gets caught doing something non-flattering...

It always starts "But Clinton..." fill in the blank!!!
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #37
75. Easy-peasy. They are...
:scared:
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Norquist Nemesis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 12:35 PM
Response to Original message
40. Before everyone gets their panties in wad
This is part of the vetting and there's no doubt that the Cons are going to have a freaking parade over this 'news'. But let's take a close look at the time-line first. Rezko was indicted last fall (2006) for dealings with Blago who was first elected in 2002. (BTW, Blago's not known for being squeaky clean himself!). The letters were nearly NINE years ago and take special note that Rezko's partner in the deal being highlighted was Obama's boss.

Does it "look" bad? Sure! Especially when people are doing everything they can to find something...anything bad that they can. As far as not doing any favors for him, well...maybe Obama's former boss should be asked a few questions like whether she made the request.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
48. Warning Hit piece!!!
Wow! First of all the article is a weakly written hit piece. Just look at that scary picture of Evil Obama that they picked to put on the article. (if that isn't obvious enough for you)

Second and most importantly if you look at the details of the article: Obama DIDN'T do any political favors, he wrote a letter in support of the project. Who cares if his college buddy was involved in the project it still benefited the community. Ohh yeah his friend was investigated on unrelated matters a decade later...ohhh no :sarcasm:

Third So since it wasn't a political favor for his friend I guess it isn't a lie when Obama said he didn't do any political favorers for that guy.

Fourth It is wrong to post this biased incorrect article. and no it doesn't matter what you "claim" Obama "supposedly do" supporters do. I expect as usual the Clintonistas will ignore most of the counterpoints and argue by attacking Obama supporters instead of finding actual proof of the outrages claims listed.


This makes me sick!!!
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. You mean Obama shouldn't be criticized...
For just associating with less than reputable people?

Wow...now that would be novel for DU!!!


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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #49
54. Obama was friends with the guy since college...
Damn he should have known then what this guy would do decades later. :sarcasm:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Maybe his criminal record goes back that far.
That one was just for fun! :rofl:
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #54
61. Really?
But the guy is an indicted developer, Obama helped him get a 14 million dollar contract, after claiming he had never helped him....

Doesn't that make Obama culpable...?


I mean, if we follow your suggestion we would be adopting a whole new paradigm at DU on how we judge the ethics of our candidates...

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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:35 PM
Response to Reply #61
62. Keep spinning, Elmer
Try as you might, the ethically-challenged candidate in the eyes of the voting public will never be Obama.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. More stories like this...
And he will be...
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. He's got an awful long way to go to catch your girl
<Clinton stumbles somewhat on the question of integrity, with just 28 percent calling her the most honest and trustworthy.>

http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/0603post-poll0603.html
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Aides by "progressives" no doubt...
Who just can't stand the fact their guy isn't making any headway...

And now looks like he is associating with the wrong people...too bad!
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #67
72. Nice try; 42% support her in the poll
and only 28% call her the most honest and trustworthy. A good share of her own supporters seem to agree with those petty progressives.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. You got the "petty progressives" part right...nt
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
80. See post # 70.
:rofl:
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #64
90. A message to you from Maya Angelou..
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #90
92. Her lips move, but I can't hear what she's saying
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #92
96. Try again..
and click "The Wall"
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #62
77. Their efforts here remind me of when Mark Foley was busted with the page and the Repuke
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 02:12 PM by jefferson_dem
spinners tried to convolute their *real* ethical challenges with the trumped-up chants of "what about Gerry Studds...remember what he did"...
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
104. He helped the city build housing for the elderly
Sorry, SaveElmer, that is how it plays. He didn't choose the developer or contracter, he merely supported the project and requested support from taxpayers.

If your candidate chooses to spin it differently, I have a sneaking suspicion she will come out looking like someone who likes to kick old people for fun.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:26 PM
Response to Reply #104
112. A case of misjudgment on your part because you are unaware of all the facts..
read up thread.. #105
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:12 AM
Response to Reply #112
119. The house deal is old news
and it has already been addressed by Obama. Your apparent fixation with it brings Whitewater to mind. That, too, became an obsession for the Clintons' opponents- all to no avail.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #104
122. My candidate isn't spinning it at all...
As you can see from the link...this was published in the Newspaper...

Unless you are like some others here who believe every negative Obama story that appears anywhere in the media is somehow planted by the Clinton campaign?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 01:19 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. What about the property he bought from the weasel?
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #51
88. Never mind..they fooled around with the purchase price..
huge possibility of fraud there.. misrepresention to the bank.
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Ethelk2044 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
97. Hillary Had help with White Water
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Lets see, all that money spent on the investigation and guess what?
Edited on Thu Jun-14-07 05:22 PM by William769
Nothing. Right wing talking points are so passe BTW.

ON EDIT: Yet nothing to say about what the thread is actually about. As usual.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
99. What a pile of shit. You disgrace yourself.

The fact that other idiots post idiocy here does not excuse your doing it. The fact that you are aware that it is idiocy makes your actions all the more guilty. Do you think you are helping your advocacy for Hillary Clinton here by acting like a low life jerk?
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Colobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 09:20 PM
Response to Original message
100. Hillarites in full force against Obama.
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:44 PM
Response to Reply #100
106. You are right.
Earlier today there were practically only anti-Obama or Pro-Clinton pieces. I had to kick like 8 Obama pieces up the pile.
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ripple Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #100
108. Yep, and not just the usual suspects
I think they're worried. :hi:
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bling bling Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #100
118. I think they are trying to teach Obamarites a "lesson".
I think we're supposed to be getting a taste of our own medicine. Because we're in kindergarten.

I'm guessing they've come together and decided it's the Obama supporters who primarily slam Clinton with baseless accusations.

Being that I happen to be a Clinton fan, I tend to be sensitive towards noticing those who criticize her. So in all honesty I have no idea why the Clinton folks are giving Obama such a smear campaign (er..."lesson") and yet Edwards supporters get off without any "lessons" at all. Not that Edwards ought to get smeared like this. But after watching this go on for a couple months now, I have to wonder why the disparity. Why ONLY Obama and never anyone else? Surely some of the Kucinich supporters have mischaracterized Clinton on GDP a time or two. What, no punishment for them too?

It bothered me for awhile until I realized that the actual number of people who will be persuaded against Obama by this kind of smearing will probably be 500 or less at the most. Hopefully it won't spread too much further than that beyond this site. And in fact, maybe getting these smear campaigns exposed here now as often as possible will help Obama prepare for them when they occur more often in the real world.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 08:35 AM
Response to Reply #100
120. Not really...
Just a little "what's good for the goose is good for the gander"

You wouldn't deny that we are treated to multiple 'guilt by association' stories on a daily basis as related to Hillary, would you?

Alot of Obama supporters around here (present company definitely excluded), seem to think the bast way to support their candidate is to post bogus attack Hillary stories, many of which have been proven false numerous times, and others which are so ridiculous no direct rebuttal is really required for anyone looking at them objectively.

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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 10:47 PM
Response to Original message
107. Attention!!!!
Anyone reading this misleading article should check out what media matters thinks of this story!!!!

http://mediamatters.org/items/200706140007?f=h_top
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-14-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #107
111. Your link's info is incomplete...It's more than the letters..
and there is way more to come with the Rezko indictment. Obama has had dealings with Rezko for the last 17yrs.

The links in my two detailed posts begin at the beginning..the letters are just one issue. We are looking at "integrity" issues and Obama's purported interest in seeing that he genuinely cares about the poor and African American's best interests for low income housing.

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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 02:10 AM
Response to Reply #111
114. Obama actually was friends with rezko longer
since college....so WHAT??? Obama should not be blamed for things his ex-friend did. The project that Obama wrote letters for was highly popular for the people it aimed to help...so I applaud Obama for a wise decision
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 02:29 AM
Response to Reply #114
116. No, he did not go to college with Rezko..
"Obama's friendship with Rezko began with a telephone call.

It was 17 years ago. Obama had just become the first black president of the Harvard Law Review. Newspapers wrote about him. One story caught the eye of David Brint, a vice president of Rezmar, a new company that had become the Daley administration's favored developer of low-income housing.

"I just cold-called him," Brint said in an interview.

Brint said he wanted to know if Obama would come work for Rezmar, developing housing for the poor -- something Obama had expressed interest in, according to the story Brint had read. Brint arranged for Obama to meet Rezko, but Obama didn't take the job.

Obama, who has a law degree from Harvard, subsequently returned to Chicago to lead a voter-registration drive in 1992.

The next year, Obama joined Davis Miner Barnhill & Galland, a 12-lawyer firm that specialized in helping develop low-income housing. The firm's top partner, Allison S. Davis, was, and is, a member of the Chicago Plan Commission, appointed by Mayor Daley. Davis was also a friend of Rezko. Davis and Rezko would eventually go into business together, developing homes."
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Kingstree Donating Member (357 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 10:57 AM
Response to Original message
124. Hillarites just trying to smear here is a link proving otherwise
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #124
126. Your link was debunked in post #116
Edited on Fri Jun-15-07 11:34 AM by Tellurian
Also in post #105 as the link was originaly provided there..

The problem with your link Kingstree, is the info is incomplete.

re-posting the link from post #105

http://www.suntimes.com/news/metro/353829,CST-NWS-rez23.article
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
125. When Obama's Sizzle Meets Fizzle....
"Barack Obama has built a campaign based on autobiography.

His campaign is selling a myth built based on that autobiography. The first step is to link Obama to the Lincoln myth.

The second step is to sell Obama as wholly different, the messiah of a “new politics”.

Obama’s autobiography of course is a series of “composite” recollections and achievements which have been repeatedly and substantively questioned.

Recently, Reverend Al Sharpton stuck a big pin in that campaign balloon when he stated about Obama “Are we now being told, ‘You all just shut up?’” Sharpton added “We keep hearing sizzle from the media, we’re not hearing substance.” Sharpton also said “I want to know from Senator Obama where the meat is.”

Sharpton also delighted in pointing out a certain hypocrisy and sales job coming from the Obama campaign and Obama himself “Senator Obama and I agree that the war is wrong, but then I want to know why he went to Connecticut and helped Lieberman, the biggest supporter of the war.”



Today we have some examples of Obama’s “new politics”. Obama’s new politics are the worse of the old politics.


One aspect of Obama’s sales job is the myth that his is a grassroots campaign, as opposed to all those other evil campaigns that seek control. To that end the Obama campaign has created a campaign web site that provides all sorts of bells and whistles to delude his young supporters that he is one of them.

Today, as Politico points out, “Barack Obama has apparently convinced MySpace (owned by News Corp.) to shut down his own unofficial Myspace page — without the consent of its creator — and re-direct its traffic to a new official page.”

TechPresident has more about Anthony, the creator of the MySpace page and his introduction to the “new politics”: Anthony had never been politically active before. “I was just blown away,” he told me. He put time into the site every day, answering emails from people wanting to “friend” the page, pointing them to voter registration information, and, once Obama threw his hat into the ring, telling them where to find out more detailed positions of the candidate.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0507/Obamas_MySpace_Flap.html#comments

We have written about this hypocrisy before, concerning several articles about Obama’s alliance with a slumlord: On April 25, 2007, Carol Marin, in a column for the Sun-Times summarized the articles and hit Obama hard “suddenly this gleaming presidential hopeful and paragon of new politics behaves just like any other dissembling, dismissive Chicago pol, ducking the discussion while pretending not to.”

"We have additional evidence today of Obama’s “new politics”. Someone from the Obama campaign leaked a copy to the media of Obama’s smooth talk script when making phone calls.

Most of the smooth talk resembles the Obama campaign promise to its young supporters that they will have a voice in the campaign."


http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18416248/



"To Democratic Representative Jim Cooper the memo advises the charm of “giving Cooper a role in policy discussion.”

The charm for D.C. Mayor Adrian Fenty is an advisor on education.

The charm for Federico Pena a latino coveted in a campaign bereft of latinos, an offer on the campaign’s national leadership."





Here are some excerpts from Howard Fineman’s article:


“On the campaign trail, Obama is the picture of casual cool: the tie-less, open-necked embodiment of a new generation and style. However, behind the scenes, he is as old school methodical as they come, with an operation that is not as experienced as Clinton’s, but that has the focus and discipline to try to run with her. The results are serious, and thorough, though at times the scripted rigor borders on the comic.

A novice on the national scene, Obama needs research and detailed staff work to compensate for his lack of personal knowledge and contacts in the country.

The document shows him working the margins of the Clinton juggernaut, reaching out to leading African American politicians not yet sewn up by Clinton, John Edwards or other campaigns.

They show a careful attention to detail – down to the names of the politicians’ children – and the call sheets leave space for the candidate (or his personal aide) to note whether the phone connection had been made. Many refer to Obama in the second person as YOU or YOUR – the capital letters meant to focus the reader on precisely what he should say.

The talking points at times are frank – though never disrespectful – in their assessment of those from whom Obama is seeking support, an endorsement or a chat.

Two of the names were what the campaign calls “faith calls” – a subset of the political shop’s work – aimed at influential ministers in the black community. Rep. Cooper, who is white and represents the 5th District of Tennessee, is a moderate and the object of sustained effort. Known for his concern about federal spending, Obama’s folks advised him to talk substance.

Getting the endorsement “Cooper is with YOU,” the talking points said, “he is just hesitant to go public with his endorsement. The KEY to this endorsement is giving Cooper a role in policy discussion. Cooper is a huge finance wonk …. Assuring him access to the policy and legislative operation will give him enough incentive to overcome his hesitancy….”

Cooper needs some pressure, they advise. “YOU MUST make a HARD ASK for PUBLIC endorsement,” they said. “Cooper wants to get involved in your campaign, but needs YOUR push towards a public endorsement. All he wants is to work with policy, so if he feels he is being brought into that operation, he will endorse.”

Not everyone is a hard catch, according to the private advice Obama got. An eager fish is Rep. Russ Carnahan of the 3rd District of Missouri, one of the two other white politicians to whom Obama was reaching out late last week. Carnahan is portrayed as enthusiastic, but perhaps a bit too desirous of a leadership campaign role in his state.

“Carnahan will ask you for a specific leadership role for YOUR campaign in Missouri,” the memo warns. “Assure him he will be one of YOUR leaders in the state, but DO NOT lead him to believe that it will be an exclusive role…..DO NOT commit to anything specific.”

You have to wonder if Obama is a little too generous with his offers of top roles – for several of the call memos warn him about the same thing: don’t make commitments.”



Here is the charm script for African-American ministers, total unknowns, for Obama. The manipulation is overt:


“Two of the calls are to black ministers – an important political constituency for any Democrat, especially for an African American whose ties to the community are, for some, an issue.

One of the ministers is Bishop Kenneth Ulmer, Pastor of the Central Bible Church in Inglewood, California. This is relatively new territory to Obama, judging from the memo.

“Faith Central has more than 13,000 members and owns and meets at the Great Western Forum, the former home of the L.A. Lakers. He has a weekly broadcast on TBN that reaches millions of viewers. “Bishop Ulmer is very interested in your candidacy,” the talking points continue. “His primary concern is that your campaign is about more than politics, and that you will be interested in a relationship with him whether or not you win.

“YOU will be in Los Angeles this Sunday but will not worship with Bishop Ulmer. You’ll be at first A.M.E. for a service commemorating the anniversary of the L.A. riots.”

Then the staff gave Obama a suggested script for his conversation with Ulmer: “Bishop, it’s good to connect with you. I’ve been looking forward to speaking with you for a while. How’s everything going at the church? I’m looking forward to worshipping with you all very soon. Have you been following the campaign? How do think we’re doing so far?”

The suggested script continued, “Bishop, my campaign is about integrity – returning integrity to the political process, and treating people’s needs with integrity. I understand that’s the same approach you’ve taken in your ministry for a long time. I think we have a lot in common. Bishop, I’d be honored to have you on my team. I would like you advising me on the landscape in California and how to approach the religious community nationally. Can I count on your support and guidance?”

There is nothing wrong with Obama’s manipulation, sweet talking charm and phony interest in the opinions of those he is out to charm and seduce. There is nothing “new” about any of this. Obama’s problem is that he is claiming to be “new” while he is as old school as any con artist or Music Man.

If the latest polls from Iowa and New Hampshire and South Carolina are any clue, Americans are starting to figure out that the new sizzle is the old fizzle.



...to be continued
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 11:48 AM
Response to Reply #125
128. Pointless Recycled Stories from Team Hillary
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 01:24 PM
Response to Reply #128
129. Hardly pointless. Just setting the stage for easier understanding..
you did notice, I said to be continued...?
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pnwmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
131. So NINE YEARS ago Obama wrote some letters.
Rezko just got indicted last fall. Was Obama supposed to have had ESP? Is he supposed to be able to peer into the future?
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
132. Media Matters rebukes this Sun Times article
http://mediamatters.org/items/200706140007?f=h_top

So who do you trust, the Team Clinton posters in here or Media Matters?

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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #132
135. No it doesn't ! It's just the other way around!
you're confused!
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
133. Oops, did we forget just last week Hillary named an Impeached Judge as Campaign Co-Chair?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/6/7/125111/4009



Let's stop the Clinton/Bush Family Dynasty
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #133
136. Makes Sense to Me!
The guy's a congressman from (hello?) Florida.

You know... one of those swing states?

With lots of electoral votes? The kind that win elections!
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 03:56 PM
Response to Original message
134. The more I watch the Hillarites' behavior on DU
the less likely I am to vote for her.
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Tellurian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 04:27 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. Look inward..
there, you'll find Peace!
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Critters2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-15-07 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #137
138. .
:eyes:
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