Why Do Democrats Support Amnesty?

I don't get it. It seems like both parties are selling out the American workers...but it's definently not new when you look at the stance our Dems (especially the ones running for President) take on outsourcing. Democrats used to be the party of the unions and working Americans...now Democrat leadership is no better than that of the Republicans.

Looks like you got the Rove memo. We're the DEMOCRATIC Party, in case you did'nt know....and NO HUMAN BEING IS AN ILLEGAL.

It's a "tell" that the poster isn't really a Dem., don't ya think?

Glad you pointed it out.

IIRC, being here illegally is a misdemeanor, not a felony. it's why we can deport them without jailtime first.

I personally thing that the $5000 fine being given for the legalization of illegal immigrants is to make it payable over ten years, and do it on your federal income taxes. There could be a line for it on page 2 of the 1040 and on your W-4 form, so your employer could withold an extra ten bucks a week to pay for it.

Nobody is selling out anyone by legalizing the status of people already in this country already working already paying taxes already with children many of whom are US citizens. You keep playing their game of pitting us one against the other like some prison gang bullshit; they are laughing at you and your misdirected outrage.

Here is a clue: Tom Tancredo.

I am feeling benevolent, here is another clue: Pat Buchanan.

know I'm a liberal. So the "he's not really a Democrat" angle won't fly. I just don't believe it's fair that illegals get automatic legalization when you have foreigners from Nigeria and China who lawfully wait in line for years!!!

You mean the depressing wages by flooding the labor market with imported workers game? How can they pit us one against another when the illegals aren't us?

At least Tancredo and Buchanan aren't in favor of transferring wealth from the pockets of working Americans to the pockets of criminal migrants and their relatives in Mexico.


And here's a clue for you: George W. Bush

Last I looked we are all human beings.

Since the industrial revolution got going in this country the ruling class has pitted old immigrants agains new, black against white, northerner against southerner: it a classic divide and conquer strategy. It works quite well. In addition it is a particularly good strategy for the Republican Party to get the Democratic Party uttering xenophobic nonsense on a regular basis. The fastest growing demogrpahic group in this country is hispanic and right now they tend to vote Democratic. It is a rovian nightmare, and their solution is to splinter the hispanic vote over abortion and immigration. Lets just play right into their hands.

Enforce workplace regulations on wages, on job safety; normalize immigration from latin america so that 'they' do not have to be here illegally; recognize that we have a special relationship with Mexico, as we occupy what was the northern half of their nation, and there is a huge native and non-native ethnic mexican population that lives in that region of the country. Address the direct consequences of globalization of capital that have destroyed the domestic economies of many latin american nations.

Or stick your head up your ass and push the worker-on-worker gang wars that only benefit the elites.

Happily ... but that doesn't address the fact that the illegals in the country now are here illegally.

recognize that we have a special relationship with Mexico, as we occupy what was the northern half of their nation

That's not even possible ... since the land Mexicans occupied then and occupy now actually belonged to someone else first.

Address the direct consequences of globalization of capital that have destroyed the domestic economies of many latin american nations.

You seem to have trouble picking 1 pony and staying on it. You are unhappy with the globalization of capital, but you want to globalize labor? And how exactly are those weak latin american economies suppose to recover and flourish without foreign capital investments?

As it has been generally ignored for my entire life, and for quite a bit longer than that. (Of course there was 'Operation Wetback' in the 50's under the Eisenhower administration, that aptly named bit of homegrown fascism did indeed deport a few million Mexican Americans living in what used to be northern Mexico over the nominal border. But that exception in my lifetime proves just how studiously ignored this law is.)

This law is in fact intended to be ignored, thereby creating an entire class of workers who can be mistreated and underpaid. The law is broken. The question is what to do with all of these people and this stupid law? The fascist uncaring inhuman answer is to deport the 12+ million people here without proper documentation. The fascist uncaring inhuman answer is to build some huge wall across our southern border, at enormous cost to all of us, man it with armed guards, at some huge and ongoing cost to all of us, and shoot those trying to come here to earn a living. Sorry, but I will not join into the hate fest no matter how much it adheres to the letter of the law. I will not be a Good German and hide my hate under the cloak of legality.

I don't know why they do. I believe it is because THEY support the corporations in their quest to have the lowest possible wage workforce. I believe THEY do it in an attempt to obtain a future voting group. There is a REASON for the LOWEST polling numbers for BOTH bush and congress; THEY ignore the will of the people in this country to secure our borders.
The jobs that have been lost to outsourcing, H1B visas and NOW illegal alien amnesty are MORE than the MAJORITY of Americans can stand. The MAJORITY must continue to let all of our congressional representatives know that this illegal alien amnesty bill in NOT acceptable and must be defeated.

how 'amnesty' depresses wages.
Employers know they can pay those here illegally next to nothing. If those workers were given some legal standing they'd have to be paid at least the federal minimum wage right?

Once the 12m+ are legalized, they will move on to higher paying jobs, and a new wave of illegal immigrants will cross the border to take the jobs they vacate.

>I believe it is because THEY support the corporations in their quest to have the lowest possible wage workforce.

I still don't get it. After amnesty, once the former illegals are "in the system" and legal... then companies can't just pay them peanuts under the table anymore -- they'll have to pay at least as much as they would have had to pay an American citizen (IF an American citizen actually wanted to do that job, of course :sarcasm: ). So how does the whole amnesty thing net companies a bunch of cheap labor? It's not cheaper than if they jut hire current citizens, so why do we need "new" citizens to work for these folks when we have so many current citizens already looking for work now?

Many of them get paid above that.

They still work for much less, though. Same thing with H1-Bs from Asia: They're perfectly legal, but they help depress wages nonetheless (and I think employers don't have to pay them benefits, but I'm not sure).

to have 12 million people here with no stake in this country?

Take people who're here and already working hard, give them a chance to live "above board", improve their lives and enjoy the same things as the rest of us (yes, I know Bush has made this a less-good place to live, but hopefully we can turn that around) and ultimately become citizens, and we'll get new, productive Americans. Yes, Hispanics DO assimilate over the course of 2-3 generations, just like other immigrants before them. My S-I-L's grandmother migrated here from Slovenia in the 1920's and didn't speak a word of English till she died at the age of over 100. But her grandchildren are as American as anyone else.

OTOH, when that doesn't happen, you get results like the Europeans are dealing with now. A large, disaffected minority, worries about a "demographic bomb", slums ready to explode, and a certain nuomber of home-grown terrorists. We're really lucky in that we still have a chance to "get it right." with our new immigrants, illegal or not.

Granted, the culture gap between Hispanic immigrants and other Americans isn't as large as that between Europeans and their Muslim sub-cultures. Working in our favor are similar religions, parallel language roots, and similar beliefs about the work ethic. But Muslim immigrants to the U.S. seem to assimilate more than those in Europe, too. I don't know why, and don't want to speculate here, but just keep it in mind...we've done assimilation/acculturation WELL over the past couple of centuries. Why do a turnaround and mess it up?.

If we want to take out our wrath on people here illegally, concentrate on those who come in and commit real crimes (murder, robbery, human trafficking, etc.) And what about the nearly 50% that are here because they overstayed their visas? Some of the 9/11 hijackers supposedly fall within that category. Nobody's doing any checking or raids on them, but I'd say an "Illegal" who's here having overstayed their visa, and is living without a visible means of support (i.e. a job) is someone we should _really_ be worrying about.

OTOH, "guest worker" programs have no redeeming features, IMO. They _do_ allow employers to get away with low wages and very little responsibility for their workers. By the way, _that's_ the part of the recent bill that has the unions upset too.

has been written in the bill to mean jumping through a flaming hoop while soaked in gasoline ($5,000 fine, back taxes, touch-back to country of origin, etc.), I think the compromise bill is a first step toward addressing the problem of illegal aliens while maintaining a modicum of humanity and hope, at the same time securing the borders which is a long overlooked national security problem.

Hillary expressed this first-step method of accomplishing change when she discussed DADT. While many here decry that as being a crap bill, at a time when the issue was an effective wedge it most certainly was Lady Liberty dipping her toe in the waters of tolerance and acceptance to the point now where all our candidates - and this was a proud moment indeed - raised their hands to the question 'should gays be allowed to serve openly in the military?'

Baby steps are excruciating sometimes but they are progress nonetheless.

1987 all over again

What is possible and what is not...

The fact of the matter is, there are 12 million people here illegally...there isn't enough money in the treasury to deport them all back without instituting some kind of gestapo-like police action...

Given that, the only thing to do is to figure out the best way to assimilate those who are here, and figure out how to keep anymore from coming here...

This means added border control, and enforcement of laws against employers...and it also will require a longer term change in the way we relate economically to these countries....

The fact is, one side of our mouth is saying stay away you are breaking the law, and the other side is saying c'mon in and work for us...

Those here are victims not criminals...and should be treated with compassion...

the politicians are the devils here. bashing another human who is fighting to feed her family is cowardice. the politicians should bear the heat or get out of the kitchen. regardless of the political solution, bashing people trying to survive is odious.

They hope they can get the new votes, AND the corporate bucks.

I do. Well, at least I support the path to citizenship, which is hardly "amnesty".


They're here. They're not going anywhere. They work hard and want to improve their lot in life - I can't fault 'em for that.

We need a way to bring them into the mainstream.