Well, if Hillary is our nominee, will you vote for her?

The fact is, we're gonna have either a Democrat or a Republican in the White House two years from now, making crucial decisions regarding American security, the Supreme Court, the environment, and many more key issues. So if our nominee is Hillary - God, I hope it's not, but if it is - would you support her, or would you allow Republicans to continue their downward spiral?

And, flamebait, too. Just my opinion.

TC

if Hillary gets the nomination.

I hope I'm wrong.

It already sucks.

The primary elections are MONTHS away and shit flies around here more than a monkey cage in a zoo.

Some the crap written about the candidates would have the freepers proud.

Hillary has a hard core group of haters around here that do NOTHING to help their own candidate. They spend all their time talking shit about Clinton.

To be honest, it turns me WAY off their candidates.

But I'll be a hell of a lot more mature and not let that cloud my opinion. I'll vote for the DEMOCRATIC nominee in the general election. And we're gonna fucking WIN that election and the naysayers can all kiss my democratic ass.

ready to question the bona fides of anyone who doesn't like her and isn't afraid to say so. When they post, the message appears to be "sit down, shut up, the primary is over, Hillary's inevitable, we have an inherent right to your vote, you selfish pig. Honestly, you should just let us vote for you, since you apparently can't handle it." I exaggerate, but it does reflect the feelings I have when I read those kind of posts. I have a real problem with that kind of presumption, and it has colored my perspective of her campaign as a whole.

I for one don't believe that Hillary has a lock on the nomination.

And I can understand your feelings about that.

The primary season has sadly started WAY too early and it's only going to get uglier.

2004 was HORRIBLE!! There seemed to be a hard core group of supporters of Dean that all put send dead horse heads in the mail to people that didn't tow the line that Dean was the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Sometimes around here, supporters of candidates can be their own worst enemy.

I'm happy to be a Hillary supporter. But I'm not going to tear down another candidate to try and get support for her.

But as a supporter of Hillary, when I see bullshit posts about her, I'll be more than happy to unleash my inner smart ass to respond.

No :sarcasm: intended:evilgrin:

Lots of people tried this after the 2004 election theft and the response from Canada wasn't exactly to roll out the welcome wagon.

:puke: Each time I check in on DU, it seems HRC's supporters become a little more shrill and intimidating toward anyone who doesn't bow to their DLC anointed Goddess. :eyes:

<read in the voice of Scarlet O'Hara>

Why I've NEVAH read a SINGLE post from an Obama supporter that EVEAH insulted supporters of Sen Clinton.

Why it's just not DONE!

:sarcasm:

:puke: ;)

care to back that up?

If you're talking about the "old" comment last week. That was a parody of Illinois Progressive constant comments about Hillary supporters being "uneducated" and "old".

If you took that the wrong way, I'm sorry.

SO, would you care to provide an example of where I insulted Obama supporters?

There's nothing in the rules about that.

We just can't campaign against her. I will still be here, Hillary or no. If someone I can't, in good conscience, vote for is nominated, I will simply not discuss the election.

I don't mind being crystal clear about exactly where I stand. It's ok with me if you don't like that, although I'm not, when we reach the convention, going to be debating my positions on candidates with anyone. Unless, of course, the delegates are split.

I will still be here to debate the issues. Hopefully, that is still a function of the Democratic Underground. To support Democratic principles and liberal/progressive stances on issues, whether or not the "chosen one" does.

I'm leaning toward taking the entire GE time off, myself. Why waste the energy or the time on a Party that will have, in effect, thumbed their noses at their base? Why come here every day and post my heart out only to be derided and fought with? Ugh.

But, I'm still thinking it over.

TC

Whether or not I pop in at DU after the '08 convention will be determined by whether or not I see any point. If there are people left who are focused on action, on issues, on making a difference, I'll probably show up. If the only point is to engage in partisan cheerleading, I won't.

here.... That being said Im not sure I would vote for her unless she really steps up and brings a single payer health care plan.....ie medicare for all and allow the insurance companies fight over the 20-25% that medicare part B does not cover

Talk about loaded questions.

"Politics ain't bean-bag."

Oh yea, it doesn't mention Obama.

And, I'm someone who likes HRC.

it is because you don't want a female as president. That is ridiculous. I would take Nancy Pelosi any day over Hillary. I just don't like Hillary for various reasons, none of which having anything to do with her having a vagina.

Amazing what people construct in their own heads, typically boiling down to their personal agenda on some level.

virulent hatred that she gets. Edwards voted for the same thing she did - ok he apologized. But something tells me that if she apologized it wouldn't get a pass. IT would be more fuel for the hate. The things people hate her for (things like her voice) are things that men don't get nailed on. The impetus for people to seize on a person's negatives are different depending on the gender of the person they are attacking.
Clearly we have a problem in our world when it comes to the treatment of women and children. Does anyone praise her work withteh Children's Defense Fund? Does anyone praise her forthright stance on preserving public education during the debate on school vouchers?

I can understand not likin gher for the war action she took in her vote. But, does that take away from her great record on global warming?

I trust her on the environment. She fought fiercely for the Superfund as it was being undermined.

I think people can't get past the vote and her relationships with corporations. And, I agree these are BIG things. But, for peopple to think that Obama or Edwards are going to be much different...I think they are unfairly giving them a pass.

and I agree that those are the many reasons people don't like her. Maybe the other politicians are more schooled in not appearing so duplicitous. That is what I see when I see her. I have not liked her for a very long time for all the reasons stated above that you mentioned.

I just think it is a real cop out when I see stuff like "it is because she is a woman" instead of looking at and addressing the real substantitive arguments against her candidacy. It reduces the discussion down to the lowest common denominator and is sad to see.

a deadlock in all these male presidents that put women and children second on every agenda. I think this attitude (that women and children are collateral damage to any conflict ) can be seen in a broader context , too. Such as, the environment. The earth has certainly been collateral damage to our civilization.
As a feminist she understands this.

(for some reason some folks get angry if I call myself a feminist) I hope to see a female president, just not her. If she ends up on the ballot, she will get my vote, I just will not be happy as I still believe she is not a viable candidate for the votes in the middle. And they are very very important.

some people get angry when you call yourself a feminist. But, in staying on point - given her popularity I think she is viable. I think Barack tries to please too many people. AI find his rhetoric not radical - just same old stuff. As far as inspiring? HE does nothing for me.

pissed when men refer to themselves as feminists. I have received the lecture before. Oh well. Whether Barack tries to please too many people or whether Hillary is popular among the left is irrelevant. As to who I think would actually win is important. I just think Hillary won't sell to the independents, and the people in the middle.

way. Its a good thing. I would challenge them on it next time.

I will look for you. )

:rofl:

(that's laughter and incredulity, not anger ... just so you know)

:rofl:

is because he consistently shows up in the women's group and proceeds to tell us that we are demonizing men, indulging in "childish victim fantasies," calling the women there "irrational" and equating radical feminism to fundamentalism. He left that part out of his post, I see. :)

You echo my feelings exactly. :hi:

I find his whole "apologizing for his entire Senate record" to be quite annoying.

I don't like Clinton as a candidate for President. I think she's too centrist, too conciliatory, too likely to continue pro-corporatist policies.

My opposition to her has NOTHING to do with the fact that she's a woman.

Run a real progressive woman, she'd have my support. Sen. Boxer comes to mind...

but her biggest hurdle is not that she is a woman. Peace, Kim

...Nancy Pelosi!

in America, we can vote for whoever the hell we want. I don't give a damn who everyone votes for; I'll vote for whatever dem is in the running, but others may not choose to do so. That's their right, and I won't criticize them for it

I do. I do not want people voting for a Republican.

I couldn't imagine phone banking for our nominee, calling people and going "I'm voting for _____, you can vote for them but if you don't that's OK too."

And I'll suggest they do so, try to convince them. But I'm not going to loathe them for not doing so, or consider them evil. I like hilary, I like obama, I'll probably vote for richardson in the primary if he's still running, and I'll vote for any of them in the actual election.

And, I'm NOT phonebanking. I'm sitting here reading a message board, not working on a campaign.

edit: and I hardly think that the people who aren't voting for hilary because she's too conservative, not dem enough, whatever are going to be switching to the pubs.

Get ready for lots of hang-ups when you try to bully people into voting a certain way after you've called and interrupted their dinners.

they are solid Dems. I can speak to this because I made the mistake of voting for a 3rd party candidate once and my reason was foolish. I am interested in why a dedicated Dem wouldn't vote for Hillary if there were no other choice. Of course, it is their right not to vote for who I think they should; a vote is sacred and private. But if they are interested in sharing their reason I'd like to hear it.

Hillary has many faults, I agree. I am not voting for her in the primary. My first choice is Gore, then Edwards. But if Hillary gets the nomination of course I will support her. If I didn't and a repug sneaked in narrowly I would forever rue the day.

:shrug:

I once voted for the "purer" candidate, John Anderson, instead of Jimmy Carter. We would have gotten Reagan anyway but I did feel foolish about it later. I actually had a chance to meet Anderson a couple of years later. He was cold, dismissive and practically ignored me when I was introduced and I told him I voted for him. He didn't seem to give a damn; didn't smile, didn't acknowledge.

I don't support Hillary in the primary because I don't think she can win in the general and I think Gore or Edwards can, while still being excellent candidates who will do great things in office. Hillary would do some good also, altho her election would smack of dynasty building.

HOwever, with a republican taking over once again, I would truly consider emigrating. We'll have one hell of a nasty country with another 4 or 8 years of a repubican.

however, if you don't support the candidate in any way, then why would you vote for them? Just because a candidate is nominally democrat does not make them worthy of my support. The idea that you're not a solid dem if you don't vote for whoever the party backs is a bit too "with usor against us" for me.

I like hilary, ombama, richardson, edwards, gore, whoever. So it's not an issue for me; however it MIGHT be an issue for someone else.

you're voting for an entire administration. That's a point those "someone else's" don't seem to get. You're voting for the heads of all those govt. agencies that will be appointed by a Democrat instead of a Republican. You're voting for all the judges that will be appointed. You're voting for the AG and all the other Cabinet positions. You're voting for the Party you are a member of to lead an entire branch of our government.

i wish everyone would.

I hope to be conscious when I vote too. :-)

the world needs more lerts;)

Cutie :)

I'm not sure it makes much difference since the "major" candidates are all owned by business anyway.

Lieberman votes with Democrats on 90% of the issues where the two parties disagree. I'd say that's better than a Republican.

Lincoln Chafee, for one.

Sue me.

More and more I think we will start to see Mitch McConnell relying on Joe Lieberman for his vote than Harry Reid relying on Joe Lieberman for his vote.

And certainly is not in the running for the Party's nomination.

I will vote for whoever our nominee is, even if that turns out to be :scared:Mike:scared:Gravel:scared:. Any of our candidates are better than the sorry bunch of creeps, hoodlums and outright loonies on the other side.

reminds me of why I won't be happy.

It is for sure all of us will not get the person we choose to vote for, I didn't much like Kerry but I fought all the way for him, I would have preferred to have Edwards or Clark, but I sucked it up and voted for the person and party that always does the best for the nation, if you are going to vote for a third party for heaven sake stay home.. I beg you people don't cut your noses off to spite your faces.

Unless she turns into someone else entirely I wont vote for her.

You might try a twist of angle, that can produce greater comfort: my vote is seldom cast for anyone or anything, but almost always against someone or something....

"Hatred is much the longer pleasure: men love in haste but hate in leisure."

I told myself after voting against Bush and not FOR Kerry I was never doing that again.I came out of that booth feeling lousy and depressed.I've been voting against people since I was old enough to vote,and I've watched things just get more and more fucked up anyways.The fact that I even want to vote at all anymore is a miracle.

I have a friend that's 45 years old.He had never voted in his life,and this last November I finally got him registered as a Dem and convinced him to vote,mainly because he hates the war like the rest of us.After the vote to fund the war came down he asked,"Why did I even bother?" and I had no good answer for him.In fact,I've been wondering that myself more and more.

If I'm going to actually stay active in politics in any way at all from here on out I have to do so out of a sense of hope,not fear.That's destroying me as surely as it's destroying the country.

People will try to shame me,bully me and guilt me into voting for someone I don't want to vote for,someone I truly believe is just an agent of continuation down the dark road humanity seems intent on driving down,and it wont work anymore.They might as well be throwing balls of yarn at me.

Hillary has done nothing to indicate she wants the votes of people like me.Quite the opposite.She seems far more interested in wooing Right leaning people than Left leaning people,and as I mentioned in another response to you awhile back I think it's sad that we're trying to appeal to people who only share our ideals when it suits them.

Sorry,but I've had it with the hate,and it'll never be the driving force in who I vote for ever again.

I get so tired of the left end of the Democratic spectrum always getting hit over the head with "not supporting the Party". In many elections going back twenty years, the "moderate"/right wing of the Party has voted Republican and everyone knows it. But instead of hitting these traitors over the head with hurting the Party, the Party just caves into them and puts itself on the corporate block. I am with you. From here on out, I will vote FOR the candidate that I actually support and not just for one Party or against another.

only I didn't say it as eloquently, Magistrate.

My "vote of conscience" will be *against* the Republican, if nothing else. Watching their debates provides a horrifying jolt of reality and resolve, as I see it.

whoever he or she is, I have but two words -- Ralph Nader.

...I say this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xOdATCFM30

If the Democratic Party loses votes in '08 to people staying home or voting third party it will be the Party's vault, not the voters. You can smear voters for making their own decisions, but you won't win many converts that way. Smearing voters is not the same as working to win them over...

And I mean "responsibility" in the most basic sense; you have a choice before you, and can respond in a number of ways, each with its own consequences. To not examine the consequences of one's actions is irresponsible, and the consequences of splitting the Democratic vote is to make the Republican one stronger.

You can do whatever you want, but your responsibility is there whether you like it or not.

However, I will say that the only way a third party can win is if people vote for it. If enough voters get fed up with the two old parties always amounting to same old two parties and no change even possible (which is how it seems right now), then a third or fourth party might just have some kind of chance. Will it happen? Probably not. Could it happen? Why, yes indeed. Would it be good if it were to happen? It may be the only thing to save our country...

The vote is mine, the party doesn't have some kind of inherent right to it.

Candidates must not have been doing something right.

Ralph Nader had to know that he could not possibly win, yet he ran. Nader had to know that he would definitely take many more votes from Gore than from Bush, yet he ran. Nader had to know that Gore would be better for the environment than Bush, yet he ran. Nader was instrumental in all the damage Bush has done to America. I hope he doesn't sleep well.

Then he was RIGHT to run when he did.

And we were FOOLS not to paint LIEberman's name off
of our campaign signs.

The man is an abomination.

I would FAR rather have Nader in the Oval Office
than Joe Lieberman, wouldn't YOU?

statements, and their proposed policies. I hope Hillary is one of those. I've been warming up to her style recently, and if she renounced her support for criminalizing flag burning, that'd help, too.

But her high-profile lead also makes her more vulnerable. Leads sometimes last in politics all the way to the convention but often they do not. She's not a shoe-in, IMO. I believe Joe Biden has just as much chance or more than Senator Clinton at the nomination. It feels wide open to me, with polls likely to fluctuate as summer turns the corner to fall. And we don't yet know Al Gore's plans.

I live in a totally blue state, so I don't HAVE TO vote for her.
And I won't.
And that doesn't mean that a Republican will win.

BTW - I didn't vote in your stupid, lame ass poll.

Oklahoma is a red state, and I can't believe that any Democrat will stand a chance here in 2008 (unless the Republican nominee eats a baby on TV or something). Regardless, there is no way I will vote for Hillary Clinton.

...that matter most to me.

After the 2000 elections and the huge clusterfuck that followed I cant believe anyone with half a brain would vote for a third party, might as well vote puke.

That way, the republican party can be pushed down for at least 10-20 years.

If it's between two Corporatists (and HRC is a Corporatist), I'd rather the Republican TRASH the Middle Class. :(

.. many of us here and elsewhere have watched things go from bad (his election and pre-9/11 behavior) to worse (his post 9/11 behavior) to egregious (the fallout of the previous two periods) and wonder just how much recovery is possible before the wheels, literally, come off the cart. The prospect that the first woman or black president (if they are elected) will be burdened with this deeply concerns me.

  When the ship of state counts Charon as one of its crew, one wonders about the ability of anyone or anything to turn the ship around and prevent it from dashing on the rocks of Federal indigence, wanton corruption, a poisoned judiciary and what seems to be correctly labeled as an unending war of dubious origin and purpose.

  Though I, of course, will blindly vote for the Democratic candidate even if it is Mrs. Bill Clinton, I will concede that your point is not without some ring of truth.

PB

I see it every day

:eyes:

:hi:

Seeing one group try to act like they are above it is downright laughable to those of us looking in from the outside at the two campaigns of Hillary and Obama.Both sides fling as much shit as they can,then turn around and whine when the other group does it.

Two groups of babies arguing over one toy. :shrug:

;)

Overachiever? ;)

Isn't that just a silly sound-bite underachievers use, to make themselves

feel a little less un-achieved?

:P

It's so much more enjoyable not to compete at every damn thing. ;)

You expect very little from yourself and your candidate

On the other hand I admire a strong competitive candidate

That's the difference between the two of us. That's also the difference between the DLC and the base of The Democratic Party.

If you were a Republican, this "Bend to our will, dammit" would work perfect as those folk adore Authoritarian Leaders.

However, many of us within the Democratic Party resent unbridled ambition and IMO, right wing tactics and name calling. IMO, a politician can NOT win with such tactics within the Democratic Party unless you wish to morph it into a lite version of Republicanism.

Although I graduated in the upper 5% of my University and earned an Regular Army Commission, I always defaulted my career choices to research and counseling. No, I also don't regret resigning my Commission (US Army) so that my beloved husband of 25 years (USMC) and I could stay together.

No, I'm not a CEO of a business but I'm a happy spouse and mother with a middle class job and a healthy, happy family. Perhaps I'm not an underachiever at all because in the grand scheme of what's truly important in life, "I've won the LOTTO."

Enjoy your campaign. I don't have anything to add because you will have to learn the hard way.

Best Wishes, SnF

Hello. You were in the military and had to take orders 24/7

"Perhaps I'm not an underachiever at all'
Sad not to know what you are. I do hope that you eventually figure it out.



"you will have to learn the hard way." Obviously by "you"...you mean you (snf}.

But I don't really have a dog in this race as a Kucinich supporter,so it does give me a little distance to see things from a non-hardcore perspective. :)

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trust me on this.

I won't be holding my nose for her.

I hope I don't have to.

Al Gore will win the nomination anyway.
:evilgrin:

I'd definitely vote for Hillary over any Republican without even blinking an eye. But I admit, doing the heavy lifting work if she's our nominee won't be the most exciting thing to do.

:)

Ah well. it does seem the dems have their own special little group of 28 percenters

(+/- %5)

stop themselves. It's a quest!

Must. SLAM. All. Opposition.

IMO, based on your "tried and true" tactics HRC is your ideal candidate. :hi: :applause:

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She's way too much of a DLC corporate insider. Still, if she's the nominee, she'll get my money, my campaign support, and my vote.

To paraphrase Mommy Dearest: No! More! Republicans! Ever!!!!

Absolutely.

then again, maybe "Hillary rules, fool, just look at the polls," isn't exactly winning hearts and minds.

:rofl:

In the end, I would end up voting for HRC. But I just like to see all her supporters get outraged and talk about the day we will all be banned from the site.

When they go canvassing door-to-door, and the Hillaristas' bullying tactics result in a lot of undecided voters slamming the door in their faces.

I mine as well vote for someone who reflects my values.

It's important to vote for someone who can IMPLEMENT the majority of your values and that can only be done if a Dem wins the presidency. Don't forget we have the Supreme Court to mold into our liking. It's much better to have an ugly Dem with a wort on the end of his nose than to have the Rethugs win and continue destroying our country.

Voting for someone who fits your ticket to a tee...but can't get elected is throwing your vote and voice away. That doesn't sound very smart if you ask me...but you didn't...so I'll go away and hope to hell there aren't many people who have the same type of reasoning and thinking. It's absolutely horrifying to see just how many people have that attitude. No wonder Democrats are so often divided and lose elections.

We know the Rethugs are crooked and will try to steal the election...so we need every single vote we can muster up. We also can not afford to say that someone/Hillary is sure to win...so I can afford to vote for my perfect prince charming/Democrat...just to show my displeasure for that *itch...and wake up in the morning with a Rethugs shoes parked under my bed for the next 8 years.

and precisely why I detest this crap poll. If you want to press this issue so much, I will not vote for her.

Exactly..right here people....this childish attitude says it all

" You keep it up kids, and I will turn this car around and go home."


:spank: :spank: :spank: :spank:

If the ninnies continue with your attitude, you will get Big Daddy Repuke

in the WH molesting your asses.

In the Republican party a leader can do border on Stalin, or Hitler, and he MIGHT lose 20% of the party.

With Dems however if a candidate doesn't match everything we as INDIVIDUALS want then we dump them. It is most ironic that the Republicans say the individual is on their own but socially stick together like flies on shit and Dems are for higher social values but peel away on individual isses until our leaders crumble (remember "...divided we fall."?

There are many things I do not like about Hillary. Personally I hope she is not the nominee not because of the things I disagree with her on but because I feel she is generally polarizing and we need a uniter more than ever.

Case in point: Republicans in Connecticut were willing to vote for the pro-choice Lieberman (who had a voting record that leaned Democratic on most issues where the two parties disagree) rather than Schlesinger to prevent Lamont from winning. They sacrificed a bunch of issues, but they were smart enough to see that they'd do worse by voting for someone who'd agree with them more.

bottom of the barrel pick, if he's the nominee. ;-)

ALL of this is happening way to early, I think partly because we are so anxious to get rid of *. But the election is 17 months away, who knows what they will do a year and a half from now. No offense, but I am sooooo sick of seeing these polls.

In fact, if a yellow dog is the nominee, I will vote for it. I am a registered Dem; that means I vote Democratic.

Even an obvious flame-bait push poll shows almost 40% WILL NOT vote for Hillary in the GE. Just imagine what a fair poll would say... 50% anyone?

so a fair poll might show a lower percentage.

With her high negatives, the only way she can win is in a viable 3-way race, IMHO.

In such a scenario, the independent could win it all.

The '92 CNN/Gallup exit polls showed that Perot was preferred over Bill Clinton, but that many who favored Perot voted for Clinton because they didn't think Perot could win.

and not to DU, a website that is unknown to most people outside the politically obsessed, which is what most of us in DU happen to be.

From what people like Keith Olbermann are saying, most people have already made their minds up about Hillary.

just found you all! Just a lil' old lady kinda new to the 'net.

Hillary is my Senator here in Western NY, and hasn't fulfilled her promise to help the depressed economy here at all. I expected a bit more from her, really. So far as I can tell, she talks the talk, but doesn't walk the walk.

So, just about anyone but Hillary in the primaries. Any suggestions?

It's nice to see another 40 and above old gal here. I'm a geek though since I started off with a 2400 baud modem connected to the university computer in 1989 running BMDP programs. I thought I was soooo cool back then. :blush:

People here honestly like one another BUT it's Primary Season and sometimes it can get brutal.

Best wishes and I hope you enjoy your visits here on DU. Yeah, regardless of who you choose to vote for in The Democratic Primary or Elections. :hi:

She is a corporate whore and destructive to the core values of the Democratic Party. If she buys the nomination with her insider power and access to unlimited money I will be forced into supporting a third party canidate (hope it's not Nader but whomever) for the first time in almost fifty years. The day she's nominated is the day I tombstone on DU if I last that long. I try not to be bitter but this has gone too fucking far and she will absolutely not win the office after buying the nomination. Al Gore, please save us from a devastating defeat.

I've voted a straight Dem ticket since I was old enough to vote (1980) but if Hillary is the nominee, I will stay home, write in a candidate or vote third party. I don't even particularly dislike her personally, but I think she and her ilk are destroying the Democratic Party and I won't be an enabler to that destruction.

Hillary can't win the general election and those that vote for her in the primary will be the ones to blame for another Republican administration. This has been my first anti-Hillary post and I'm not pushing another candidate at this point. I'd like to see Gore or Clark get in the race but failing that, I'd vote for Edwards or Obama. But, I'm tired of being an easy Dem vote-this party is going to have to earn my vote this time.

Don't get me wrong, he worked hard, but none of it would've been possible without his father's connections. Bobby Kennedy wouldn't have been anywhere without his family name, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been a great President.

Hillary may be using Bill's connections but those alone aren't going to beat Obama in the primaries.

....AND, my conscience is clear....and yes, I consider myself a good Democrat....

....I will vote for every other Democrat on the ballot except for an unrepenting war-monger at the top....and if she loses, it will not be MY fault....

....it will be the fault of all the corporatists who control this Party and insist on jamming her down my throat....

....so Hillary-lovers, I'm going to let you duke it out with the repugs for the top slot; you don't like or need us 'crazy Lefties' anyway....

My dog at least doesn't want to make desecrating the flag a federal crime, so I'll probably write her in.

I'm convinced that if Clinton is the nominee, the Democrats will not gain back the White House and possibly lose the Senate due to the choice.

If I do plan on voting for her, I'd make Hillary clothespins to wear on your nose when you vote. I'd sell them and make a LOT of money.

:wow:

I had no idea that so many "Democrats" would abandon the party in the general election.

For the record, I dislike Clinton immensely in the primaries, and consider her a DLC corporatist triangulator of the worst order.

But, for the love of Albert, I wouldn't throw the election to fucking Mitt Romney/Ghouliani in a fit of righteous liberal angst! cheez, people!

This poll solidifies in my mind that she is unelectable in the General.
Holy fucking shit.

It only reflects DU which is saturated with fruitcakes who would rather lose for principle, than get someone 10 times closer to their ideology than the alternative. The real polls conducted show that Hillary has broad support, she will energize alot of women to vote, who historically do not. You people are tapped.

Save the loyalty oath pledges for the star chamber.

After all, as her supporters keep reminding us, it's "inevitable" that America will fall in love with Senator Clinton and elect her president...so she doesn't need my measly little vote, does she?

I vote to have my interests and my fellow citizens' interests represented. No one owns me.

they can go rent a room

This is a horrible poll and those who say they'll vote Third Party do not belong at DU.

I respect people who say they can't vote for Clinton. I think they're wrong as cousins kissing, but they're entitled to their suicidal beliefs. Honestly, I think Mrs Clinton would be a train wreck of a candidate, but the second she's nominated, she's my candidate 100%.

I'll wager most of those who say they won't vote for her will either grow up or quit bluffing by November 2008.

eom

I do not trust her judgment since not only did she vote for this atrocious war but she refuses to apologize for the decision.

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

The republicans are afraid of her and they can't wait to destroy Obama is he is the nominee.

It is the republican media that is selecting the outcome of the election before it comes to the people that will place a 'thug' in office. Get that straight. It is 2007 for gods sake, let the people talk and decide!

and I did the third party thing and I decided never again (at least not until a REAL third party shows up)

If you're confused about this, consider that Justice Stevens is well into his 80s and he's probably hanging on until 2009. Do you want Hillary Clinton to nominate federal judges from the Supreme Court on down or do you want Rudy Guiliani, Mitt Romney, John McCain or Fred Thompson to do it?

If it has to be another corporate whore in The White House, IMO, let that whore be from "The Other Party." That way we have the greatest chance of taking over both The House and The Senate. THEN we filter out those who serve corporations first and DEMAND the implementation of "term limits." :thumbsup:

I can't see it that way. The Dems have enabled Bush all through his residency, and the three "contenders" were each in the Senate for part of that time.

to block the nominations of Roberts and Alito? That's right - nothing. Thanks to her previous enabling, it won't matter who she nominates as president. If the Hillary supporters are so worried about the SCOTUS, they should be making sure a REAL Democrat gets elected, not a war-mongering corporatist water-carrier for the RW.

am I missing?



Alito - 42 Democrats against

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00002


Roberts - (only) 22 Democrats against

http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=1&vote=00245



edgr

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if that factor remains the same during this extra long primary season we will see one of two thing. Democrats vote for someone electable or democrats throw away their vote. Since we are Democrats in most situations I would expect us to vote for Hillary anyway, but I think that in the end we will want someone who can win.

Here I'll even make a simple little chart to show you what I mean.

Obama, Edwards > Rudy, McCain > Hillary

I always try and look at things from a historical long term point of view. Right now both the Democratic and Republican parties are at crossroads. The choices that the parties make will undoubtedly have massive long term repercussions.

The fact is that in the last 8 years as a plant we have managed to roll back almost 50 years of progress. If this trend of destabilization and fractured relationships continue then we could slide into another Dark Ages (but with Nukes.)

There is a very real chance that if the democratic party picks Hillary as our nominee that the best thing for us and the world (long term) is for us to get our asses handed to us at the polls. The fact is even if we go the wrong direction for 4 more years under a republican it would be far worse to spend 4 years going in the wrong direction under a Democrat.

I don't give a shit if she's your last choice in the Democratic field, this is the MOST IMPORTANT election of our lifetime. And you want to throw it away by NOT voting or voting for third party candidates that'll secure the White House for President Romney or President Giuliani? Are you people NUTS?

Grow up. She's not my ideal candidate, she's not my first choice. But by god if she can win, let her win. Let her win, and let's rebuild this dysfunctional country from the ground up. We need a Democrat in 2008, so stop whining and bitching about Hillary. Don't want her as the nominee? VOTE AGAINST HER!!

Sheesh. DU amazes me sometimes.

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And welcome to DU.

:eyes:

Now that's just silly.

note that because this is pretty much a push poll, it is quite possible that people are voting against Hillary in protest of the fact that it's a push poll. People ought to quit demanding loyalty oaths, and then smearing people who won't jump on their say-so, and lose the condescension. Maybe do a little winning of hearts and minds.

Who are your favorite members of the SCOTUS today.



By the way,I'm not a Hillary supporter, but if she gets the nomination, I will vote for her over any repub or third party candidate.

this is rather eye-opening.

Not my ideal choice, but she could quite possibly be a very good president. Better than any Republican without a doubt.

My husband will abstain.

As long as you commit to Democratic victory in 2008, that's all we can ask.

By the way, how are things in the Kerrycrat wing?

I need to swing in sometime ;)

She's miles ahead of any Republican.

I fail to see many differences between her and Obama at times. They're both great candidates who would make great Presidents.

That's "if" she's the nominee. But the answer is easy: yes.

Assuming he bleeds off a bunch of the moderate Dem and Indy votes. With Hillary and her supporters alienating the progressive Dems, that doesn't leave her a lot of room to triagulate in...

I will vote for Senator Clinton knowing that the Democrats will lose badly with her as the nominee.

(that's the same thing as not voting for the Dem nom, I don't care what way you try to spin it).

I'm so disgusted.

I am also disgusted and shaking my head in disbelief that 42% would vote for GOP...oh, Pleeeezzzeeee

Essentially power hungry, she has no real convictions. Libby? The war? She's got all the trash content of her husband, with none of the charm.

due to our ridiculously archaic electoral college system. Texas is highly unlikely to vote for any Democrat, but hell will freeze over on the day they vote for Hillary.

I'd like to reiterate what people said earlier: when you vote for the president you are also voting for the vp, the cabinet, the ag possibly 2 or 3 supreme court justices, etc. Also people that are going to vote third party, do you really think any of the 3rd party candidates will be better? Do you want to vote for Nader who makes all sorts of preposterous lies? Or bloomy, if you say Hilary is not a real democrat and you vote for the guy who sold out to republicans than you are being a little hippocrical. Not voting at all is unpatriotic, irrational and just plain silly. And when I vote for Hilary even though I disagree with her on many things I WILL be voting based on principle. The principle that I will breathe much easier having her the next 4/8 years than any repuke.

Democratic nominee-his/her chosen runningmate '08

is better than the best Republican.

when she gives me a reason to. And to be frank, she hasn't done a good job of doing that lately.

If Hillary wins, please please don't sit on your hands to let GOP win. Though Hillary is not my fave, I will vote for her as I do have good feelings that she will turn out all right for all of us. Mine is 1) Gore 2) Clark 3) Dennis 4) Edwards but if Hillary wins then she will have my support and my vote.

Ask yourself this basic question......Do you really believe that a Hillary Clinton administration, following in the footsteps of Bill Clinton, is going to do anything fundamentally productive to end our antagonistic foreign policy, limit outsourcing, and to strengthen our social benefits?

She's going to do nothing because all of those things run contrary to the interests of the corporations and lobbies that have overbearing influence on her. Hillary only cares about what Wall St. tells her to do. The rest of us are expendable in her eyes.