Obama Swipes at Hillay Clinton on...experience.

The "new kind of politics" show rolls on.

Let's review the substance of the attack.

HRC: 7 years in the senate, 8 years serving as the closest adviser to the president from the best seat in the house, 12 years as a top adviser to a governor
Obama: 2 years in the senate

I think it is laughable for Obama to claim he is as ready as HRC to run the nation. That is not a reason to vote against him, but it is a lame argument to make. HRC, for one, has the ultimate crutch to lean on: President Bill Clinton. If she gets into a jam she can talk at anytime to one of only two living Democrats who have been there before.

==By NEDRA PICKLER
The Associated Press
Tuesday, June 26, 2007; 7:38 PM

WASHINGTON -- Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama contends that former President Clinton can lead the nation on the first day but Clinton's wife and Obama's chief rival cannot.

In a jab, Obama said count out New York Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton, and just about anyone else, in being ready to assume the mantle of the presidency.

"The only person who would probably be prepared to be our president on Day One would be Bill Clinton _ not Hillary Clinton," Obama told Monday night at a fundraiser in Chicago.

But Bill Clinton says his wife is the most prepared to lead.==

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/06/26/AR2007062601612.html

I think it's laughable to claim being First Lady is experience for the job.

you're dedicated to being a hooligan. How much experience do you have making that claim?

Actual experience. Not nepotism.

unless you're hiding something.

Oh yeah! She did team up with Brownback, Santorum, and Lieberman in a courageous effort to tamp down those dastardly video games. http://www.senate.gov/~clinton/news/statements/details.cfm?id=233795&&

Where does it state that her experience comes primarily from being First Lady? The OP compared the experience of both Hillary and Obama - 7 years in the Senate versus 2 years. If you want to slam Hillary, please find another reason.

"HRC: 7 years in the senate, 8 years observing the presidency from the best seat in the house, 12 years observing the governorship of a state"

:shrug:

Hillary

Political Experience:
Senator, United States Senate, 2000-present
First Lady, President Bill Clinton, 1992-2000
First Lady, State of Arkansas, 1978-1980, 1982-1992
House Judiciary Committee, 1974.


Therefore she is trying to use First Lady as as political experience.

:eyes:

Thanks.

a cigar or, did he come up with that all by himself:evilgrin:

Kinda childish.

kinda childish:P

Quite laughable I must say. I guess u left that out on purpose.

facts? Maybe someone should inform the candidate so he won't....it looks bad on him.

(Sources, part from Wiki & other from Senator Clintons Biographies...several books to verify.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Rodha...


PARTIAL BIO
1969, Rodham entered Yale Law School, where she served on the Board of Editors of the Yale Review of Law and Social Action.
During her second year, she volunteered at the Yale Child Study Center, learning about new research on early childhood brain development.
She also took on cases of child abuse at Yale-New Haven Hospital, and worked at the city legal services to provide free advice for the poor. She was 23.
In the summer of 1970, she was awarded a grant to work at the Children's Defense Fund in Cambridge, Massachusetts.
During her post-graduate study, Rodham served as staff attorney for the Children's Defense Fund and as a consultant to the Carnegie Council on Children.
She was a member of the impeachment inquiry staff advising the House Committee on the Judiciary during the Watergate scandal.

In 1971 she traveled to Washington to work on Senator Walter Mondale's subcommittee on migrant workers, researching migrant problems in housing, sanitation, health and education.
The following summer, Rodham campaigned in the western states for 1972 Democratic presidential
candidate George McGovern.
She received a Juris Doctor degree from Yale in 1973, having completed a
thesis on the rights of children.

Working for Rose Law Firm specializing in intellectual property & working pro bono in child advocacy. (1976)

In her twelve years as First Lady of Arkansas, she chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee, where she successfully sought to improve testing standards of new teachers.
She also chaired the Rural Health Advisory Committee and introduced the Arkansas' Home Instruction
Program for Preschool Youth, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool
preparedness and literacy.
She was named Arkansas Woman of the Year in 1983 and Arkansas Mother of the Year in 1984.

Clinton continued to practice law with the Rose Law Firm while she was First Lady of Arkansas.
She was twice named by the National Law Journal as one of the 100 most influential lawyers in America, in 1988 and in 1991.
Clinton had co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, and served on the boards of the Arkansas Children's Hospital Legal Services and the Children's Defense Fund.


As First Lady, Clinton supported women's rights and children's welfare around the world., Clinton hosted numerous White House conferences on children's health, early childhood development and school violence.

She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.

She initiated the Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.
She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.
The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.
In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.
Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.

She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.
She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.


Senator (NY) 2001 -
In the Senate, Clinton sits on five committees with nine subcommittee assignments in all:
the
Committee on Armed Services, with three subcommittee assignments on Airland, on Emerging Threats and Capabilities, and on Readiness and Management Support.
Committee on Environment and Public Works, with three subcommittee assignments on Clean Air, Wetlands, Private Property, and Nuclear Safety, on Fisheries, Wildlife, and Water, and on Superfund, Waste Control, and Risk Assessment.
Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions, with two subcommittee assignments on Aging and on Children and Families; and the Special Committee on Aging.


edgr

I'm not looking for a candidate with someone to 'lean on'.

Sure, he mentions her name, but he's just saying that only people who have been President before are truly prepared to be President. Just being in the White House observing him or even having him in the White House with her doesn't make her more prepared. That's not an attack any more than Hillary stating that she is more prepared.

State legislature
Obama was elected to the Illinois State Senate in 1996 from the state's 13th District in the south-side Chicago neighborhood of Hyde Park.<30> In 2000, he made an unsuccessful Democratic primary run for the U.S. House of Representatives seat held by four-term incumbent candidate Bobby Rush.<31> He was overwhelmingly reelected to the Illinois Senate in 1998 and 2002, officially resigning in November 2004, following his election to the U.S. Senate.<32><33> Among his major accomplishments as a state legislator, Obama's U.S. Senate web site lists: "creating programs like the state Earned Income Tax Credit"; "an expansion of early childhood education"; and "legislation requiring the videotaping of interrogations and confessions in all capital cases."<34> Reviewing Obama's career in the Illinois Senate, a February 2007 article in the Washington Post noted his work with both Democrats and Republicans in drafting bipartisan legislation on ethics and health care reform.<35><36> During his 2004 U.S. Senate campaign, Obama won the endorsement of the Illinois Fraternal Order of Police, whose officials cited his "longtime support of gun control measures and his willingness to negotiate compromises," despite his support for some bills the police union had opposed.<37> He was also criticized by a rival pro-choice candidate in the Democratic primary and by his Republican pro-life opponent in the general election for having voted either "present" or "no" on anti-abortion legislation.<35><38>


Keynote address at 2004 Democratic National Convention

Senate career
Obama was sworn in as a Senator on January 4, 2005.<53> He hired former Senate Democratic Leader Tom Daschle's ex-chief of staff for the same position, and Karen Kornbluh, an economist who was deputy chief of staff to former Secretary of the Treasury Robert Rubin, as his policy adviser.<54> In July 2005, Samantha Power, Pulitzer-winning author on human rights and genocide, joined Obama's team.<55> An October 2005 article in the British journal New Statesman listed Obama as one of "10 people who could change the world."<56> Three months into his Senate career, and again in 2007, Time magazine named Obama one of "the world's most influential people."<57> During his first two and a half years in the Senate, Obama received Honorary Doctorates of Law from Knox College,<58> University of Massachusetts Boston,<59> Northwestern University,<60> Xavier University of Louisiana,<61> and Southern New Hampshire University.<62> He is a member of the Congressional Black Caucus.<64>

Legislation
Obama sponsored 152 bills and resolutions brought before the 109th Congress in 2005 and 2006, and cosponsored another 427.<65><66> His first bill was the "Higher Education Opportunity through Pell Grant Expansion Act."<67> Entered in fulfillment of a campaign promise, the bill proposed increasing the maximum amount of Pell Grant awards to help students from lower income families pay their college tuitions.<68> The bill did not progress beyond committee and was never voted on by the Senate.

Obama took an active role in the Senate's drive for improved border security and immigration reform. Beginning in 2005, he co-sponsored the "Secure America and Orderly Immigration Act" introduced by Sen. John McCain (R-AZ).<69> Obama later added three amendments to S. 2611, the "Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act," sponsored by Sen. Arlen Specter (R-PA).<70><71> S. 2611 passed the Senate in May 2006, but failed to gain majority support in the U.S. House of Representatives.<72> In September 2006, Obama supported a related bill, the Secure Fence Act, authorizing construction of fencing and other security improvements along the United States–Mexico border.<73> President Bush signed the Secure Fence Act into law in October 2006, calling it "an important step toward immigration reform."<74>

Partnering first with Sen. Richard Lugar (R-IN), and then with Sen. Tom Coburn (R-OK), Obama successfully introduced two initiatives bearing his name. "Lugar-Obama" expands the Nunn-Lugar cooperative threat reduction concept to conventional weapons, including shoulder-fired missiles and anti-personnel mines.<76><77> The "Coburn-Obama Transparency Act" provides for a web site, managed by the Office of Management and Budget, listing all organizations receiving Federal funds from 2007 onward, and providing breakdowns by the agency allocating the funds, the dollar amount given, and the purpose of the grant or contract.<78><79> On December 22, 2006, President Bush signed into law the "Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act," marking the first federal legislation to be enacted with Obama as its primary sponsor.<80>

On the first day of the Democratic-controlled 110th Congress, in a column published in the Washington Post, Obama called for an end to "any and all practices that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a public servant has become indebted to a lobbyist."<81> He joined with Sen. Russ Feingold (D-WI) in strengthening restrictions on travel in corporate jets to S.1, the Legislative Transparency and Accountability Act of 2007, which passed the Senate with a 96-2 majority.<82><83> Obama joined Charles Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.<84><85> Obama's energy initiatives scored pluses and minuses with environmentalists, who welcomed his sponsorship with Sen. John McCain (R-AZ) of a climate change bill to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by two-thirds by 2050, but were skeptical of Obama's support for a bill promoting liquefied coal production.<86><87> Also during the first month of the 110th Congress, Obama introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act," a bill that caps troop levels in Iraq at January 10, 2007 levels, begins phased redeployment on May 1, 2007, and removes all combat brigades from Iraq by March 31, 2008.<88><8[br />
Committees:
Foreign Relations, Member
Health, Education, Labor & Pensions, Member
Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, Member
Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations, Member
Subcommittee on Federal Financial Management, Government Information, Federal Services, and International Security , Member
Subcommittee on State, Local, and Private Sector Preparedness and Integration, Member
Veterans' Affairs, Member

Mario sees an attack.

Mario. Mario. Mariologico? Hmmm.

Democrats should find a hell of alot more important this time around. Do we WANT another 9-11 or Iraq war? Or another Bush to rise up 8 years down the road?

When will Democrats open their eyes and see that TRUTH MATTERS?
http://consortiumnews.com/2006/111106.html

The only people truly prepared to start day one in the Presidency is a former President (minus GWB of course).

Clinton and Obama arrived in the Senate four years apart (2001 and 2005 respectively). So Clinton has seven years experience as a senator and Obama has two years experience.

Because 7 - 2 = 4.

I might point out, while we're at it, that whoever is president in 2009 will have Clinton and Carter (and the Bushes for that matter) ready to be called on for advice. I really doubt the Dog will snub President Obama's phone calls. But for the record, having "the ultimate crutch" is not a good argument to make for leadership ability.

Obama said a silly thing. You beat him at his own game.

8 years State Senate
2 years Senate
= 10 years 10 -7 = 3 years in the positive. Look at my post above with his political resume. Not me making it up but found on the web.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3340745&mesg_id=3340827

My post said nothing about Obama's state senate experience. Why are you even bringing that up? What is your point? Who are you?

I was only rebutting the silliness of someone rounding up Clinton's six and a half years to seven while rounding Obama's two and a half years down to two. My math is just fine. Your punctuation and capitalization, on the other hand, could use some work.

You conveniently left out part of his experience. I just corrected you. He has more than 2 years experience.

Read my post below (#33). You'll see that you're bitching at someone who's on your side of the argument. And you're doing so because you're not bothering to understand the pretty simple point I was making (which was about math, not experience).

Obama has 2 years of experience in prime-time and has never won a major competitive election. Scandals doomed his main primary and GE competition. He coasted to victory against the biggest joke candidate of all-time, Alan Keyes. :rofl:

Jonathan Papelbon went from pitching for the Portland Sea Dogs to being the most feared closer in the majors in less than a year.

Some folks have a different development and learning curve. Obama happens to be a rare political phenom. he has accomplished more in his short time in the senate than many senators do in decades.

It is true that Bill would be able to do so but, not Hillary. she has yet to stand on her own without bill propping her up.

How many times has he apologized to her so far? She keeps letting him off the hook.

Obama's excuse IS inexperience. It's starting to wear a little thin.. How much longer does the novice get before he's ready to swim with the experienced candidates?

Obama has been man enough to stand on his own.

Bill would not have had to call in favors for her to go down to SC. Also, she would be able to pull out Iowa by herself instead of having to have Bill to try to help her.

Man, it's like yall are all comparing dick sizes. "Mine measure four years longer." "No, mine measures three years longer." Man, all of yall shut up.

Obama's years as a civil rights attorney, as a community organizer, as a law professor--these things count and you're not counting them. Clinton's years as a child advocate, as First Lady of Arkansas and the United States, as a top lawyer with a prestigeous law firm, as a whipping post for the Arkansas Project---these are all equally important.

Clinton's ability to charm her former persecutors is a valuable skill. Obama's track record for reaching out to moderates, for inspiring younger Americans to get involved is also proof of his ability to do the job. Clinton's service as a roving ambassador during her White House years will broaden her skillsets if she's in the Oval Office. Obama's years growing up in Indonesia, being exposed to different cultures, experiencing racism and affirmative action in this country will broaden his skill set if he's the president.

This is about the most immature line of argument on DU this month--Paris Hilton threads included. Can't yall talk about health care instead?

After you watch this, you won't have any questions about Hillary's experience.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qNTXQwUlOBU

And what does he know about what it takes to be president?

They say, he's the BEST mentor for grooming the next president.

So, they say, anyway.

Clinton has for more years of U.S. Senate experience than Obama... You count 2007 seven for her.. but not for Obama....


7-4=2?

and eventually gave in to the insurance and pharm companies.

that I am voting for Biden.

I want experience.

I want experience AND sanity.

But yet, she still voted for the war. If she has so much experience, didn't she know that a civil war was inevitable with all the different factions in Iraq.

That is an area where Obama can make a legitimate case for himself (although people can fire back with things like his endorsement of Holy Joe over Lamont, Rezko, and other instances of poor judgment by him). For him to invoke experience and pretend as if he has as much relevant experience as HRC is absurd, though.

and then supported Lamont in the general- Obama included. Singling Obama out as some sort of traitor is disingenuous. It is the custom of democratic senators to support the democratic incumbent in an election. And like it or not, Lieberman was the democratic incumbent, even if only on paper.

The Rezko matter is nothing but a minor blip that Obama has already expressed regret about. Unfortunately for Edwards (whom I actually like, despite the fact that I can't help but point out the hypocrisy of your support for him, while constantly trying to paint Obama as pro-war), the manufactured haircut 'controversy' has a hell of a lot more staying power than the Rezko deal.

McCain is a perfect example of why judgment often trumps experience. I think we might actually agree on that point.

He should be held to the standard he is running on. He keeps running into the problem of holding himself up as superior to the rest, which helps politically, but then falling short of the mythical standards he sets for himself.

There was no law requiring Democrats to support Holy Joe. Edwards, for instance, did not. I doubt Kucinich did either.

A haircut hardly is as important as corruption worth, apparently, nearly $1 million. Also, supposedly, Obama was doing legal work for Rezko while his state senate constituents were freezing without heating in Rezko-owned buildings. That is as bad as a haircut?

==while constantly trying to paint Obama as pro-war==

He is. He has said he will continue military operations in Iraq for an unspecified length of time with an unspecified number of troops. He has the same position HRC has. HRC is just more open about it. There is no need to paste his own words here (i.e. his own website, his own bill, and his recent article in Foreign Affairs). I am sure you have seen them several times.

I don't support Edwards because of his position on the war. Pointing out Obama's own position on the war is vital. People need to know what he actually thinks about the war if he is not going to be honest about his actual position during debates.

==McCain is a perfect example of why judgment often trumps experience. I think we might actually agree on that point.==

Sure. Like I said, Obama can make a legitimate case on judgment, although Obama supporters, many of whom who worship daily at the altar of the 2002 IWR, fail to recognize that good judgment is not conferred simply because of being correct on one issue. If Obama runs on judgment you can be sure people will point to his lapses in judgment. Many BO supporters seem to think the IWR is all that counts for judgment, that Pat Buchanan has better judgment than John Kerry. The public does not think this way and Obama would pay a price if he started to run on judgment, although he still may wind up with a net gain. The bottom line is the judgment issue is not as simple and clear-cut as Obama supporters like to think.

Those examples are worthless and I can all but guarantee that if Edwards had been in the Senate, he would have done the same as the other dems.

Edwards has had the luxury of playing armchair quarterback for the past few years and while I don't begrudge him for playing that to his advantage, I do think his words need to be taken with a large grain of salt. Actions speak louder than words and when he was in a position to make one of the most important decisions in our nation's history, he failed miserably.

I agree that good judgment isn't a one-shot deal and I think it's fair to take a critical look at Obama's legislative record and his plan for extricating us from Iraq. I think it made sense for him to vote to continue appropriations for Iraq, particularly before the dems took control of the senate. I believe he's taken a thoughtful approach to the Iraq debacle from the very beginning and unlike your portrayal of him, he didn't jump the shark and all of a sudden decide to support the war. He has never supported it and he's been quite vocal about that all along. He also didn't delude himself to the reality of the situation- that republicans controlled congress, our troops were already there, the war was underway, and voting not to fund the troops (as it would have been construed) would serve no purpose other than political grandstanding. While such a move might have elevated him in the eyes of the more absolutist anti-war activists, it would have done more damage than good to his reputation with the electorate at large.

If you are truly honest with yourself, you'll admit that you can't say for sure whether or not Edwards would have voted any differently than Obama, had he still been in the Senate after 2004. Nobody can, really.

They showed the right judgment on Holy Joe/Lamont; others did not.

==Those examples are worthless and I can all but guarantee that if Edwards had been in the Senate, he would have done the same as the other dems.==

That is like saying Obama surely would have voted for the IWR if he had to cast a vote. ;)

==Edwards has had the luxury of playing armchair quarterback for the past few years==

Like Obama did in 2002. I notice how much importance Obama's supporters and campaigns place on 2002. You don't hear much about what he did in 2005, 2006, or 2007. Of course, we both know why. ;)

==I think it made sense for him to vote to continue appropriations for Iraq, particularly before the dems took control of the senate.==

That is one thing. The main problem I have with him on Iraq is his plan to continue the war, albeit a de-escalated war. Although, when Obama supporters invoke some sort of purity on Iraq, it has to be noted that Kucinich has consistently voted against financing the war, unlike Obama.

==I believe he's taken a thoughtful approach to the Iraq debacle from the very beginning and unlike your portrayal of him, he didn't jump the shark and all of a sudden decide to support the war. He has never supported it and he's been quite vocal about that all along==

He does support it. His plan to "end the war" in fact continues the war. That is pro-war in my book!

==While such a move might have elevated him in the eyes of the more absolutist anti-war activists, it would have done more damage than good to his reputation with the electorate at large.==

SO you are saying--contary to the mythology--that Obama's votes on Iraq were based on political reasons? Isn't that exactly what you guys alleged HRC, Edwards, Biden, Dodd, Kerry, et al. did (with no supporting evidence, although there is evidence that Obama changed his vote as a state senator on abortion for political reasons. The source? His friends...)?

==If you are truly honest with yourself, you'll admit that you can't say for sure whether or not Edwards would have voted any differently than Obama, had he still been in the Senate after 2004. Nobody can, really.==

That is ironic, since Obama supporters claim that if Obama had been in the senate in 2002 he would have voted against the IWR, even though Obama himself has said he doesn't know what he would have done had he been on the senate.

You are right, though. We don't know how Edwards would have voted on most Iraq bills since 2005. What we do know is that Edwards spoke out forcefully against capitulation right after the veto; others silenced their powerful voices. We also know Edwards is calling for ending the war; others are not but like to portray themselves as favoring an end to the war.

how does this sound?
Al Gore for president!
Hilary for vice-president.
Not too bad, eh?

:rofl:

You crack me up.

support Obama OR Hilary, but I think she has much more experience than he does. She is a very intelligent person.

in the name of HRC. Are you a programmed attack dog like the hillarites? I find it silly the amount of attack threads on DU. And, no, I do not attack HRC, or anyone else. I generally just skip over the tons of chaff to get to the wheat, but I have to say I have seen enough of the same 5 or 6 people constantly on the attack. I do not like seeing obamites doing the attacking, either.

Since then, he has been more Mario Cujo than Mario Cuomo.

n/t

I actually posted a thread on it. Not a single Obama supporter whined about that thread. A few months later they call you a violent dog and other things for daring to call Obama on his racism. These are the type of people a President Obama would bring to the White House? :puke:

:spray:

Lighten up!

For those of you who don't know what "Cujo" means: =="Cujo" has since entered the realm of popular culture as a generic term or sarcastic insult in reference to a psychotic, violent, or imbalanced dog.==

Many Obama supporters like to tell people to do one thing but don't apply the rules they try to apply to others to themselves.

toward Obama post-D-Punjab.

Come back, Mario Cuomo.

You can't criticize mere message board posters for criticizing a candidate and then say nothing and support a candidate who makes attacks himself. If dissent is evil when it comes from an obscure individual on the internet, why is it permissible for a presidential candidate? You, and those who agree with your thinking, have it backwards. If only you guys held presidential candidates to the same standard you hold names on a computer screen.

:rofl:

:)

or continue to make a fool out of yourself.

It seems to me, as noted in the previous reference (video), Hillary was involved in chronicaling evidence in the Nixon WaterGate Scandal. I don't think I missed the reference, but would you check this link and tell me if you see it in her bio?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

It would be nice if one of the front runners had a proven track record of actually leading.

Senators are at a handicap from the starting line.

She was rewarded with a 7 min standing ovation.. That is a direct attribute of leadership...ya, know!

But, you didn't answer my original question. Was there an attribute for the WaterGate work done by Hillary? As, I said, I could not find it. I know the video mentions it, alas, I could not find it. Either it's an omission or it never happened.

with proof. You're point doesn't address the links and proof provided to the contrary of your assertions.

You have to do better when faced with valid evidence and stop pretending it doesn't exist.