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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:08 AM
Original message
Hillary on health care
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 09:22 AM by welshTerrier2
source: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/2007/07/03/2007-07-03_the_daily_news_candidate_challenge__hill.html#economy

Would you require employers to provide health care insurance to workers as a way of achieving universal coverage? If not, how would you reduce the ranks of America's 47 million uninsured?

I have a lot of experience in trying to cover more Americans, and the scars to show for it. Part of why I'm running for President is to ensure every American has health care and that is why on day one of my campaign, I talked about the need for universal health care. And I've offered three principles that will guide our work: cost, quality and coverage. I began by addressing cost because we will only be able to achieve universal health care if we get these costs under control. I laid out specific ideas to lower costs for everyone by using health information technology, by spurring a new focus on prevention, by promoting chronic care management, and by creating a best practices institute that lowers cots by focusing on the most effective procedures, medicines, and protocols. In the coming months I will lay out my proposals to cover every American.


There is so much wrong with that statement, it's hard to know where to begin. If you're one of the 47 million Americans without coverage, do you think you would believe Hillary when she says she wants universal health care? Are you prepared to wait while she busies herself with lowering costs?

Lowering costs is fine; taking the profits out of health insurance is better. Hillary won't be talking about that anytime soon. Hillary also won't be talking about making a real national commitment, a "whatever it takes" commitment, to making sure that health care is a right for every single American. She could talk about making this a top national priority even if it means taking money from our bloated defense budget. She won't. Instead, she's going to clean up the mess with Information Technology, a new focus on chronic care management and a "best practices institute." If you can't afford health care today, maybe the good people at the "best practices institute" will lend you a few bucks.

But Hillary is very proud of the "scars she has to show for it." She says that as if her past efforts excuse the woefully inadequate plan she's peddling today. We need single payer health care. We need to take the profits out of health insurance. We need to make quality health care a right for every single American. We can afford it if we go about it correctly. "Best practices institutes" fail to call for the kind of real changes we really need. Of course, when you accept money from industry lobbyists, there's just so much you can do.
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Larkspur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:13 AM
Response to Original message
1. Hillary is the #2 recipient of healthcare insurance contributions
She'll drag her feet on this issue if she becomes President.
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FormerDittoHead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #1
14. I can only imagine the "obstacles" she'd encounter - like a lack of will for real change. n/t
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. Like Michael Moore said; "you have to be more specific" yak-yak-yak don't mean beans...
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
3. This isn't a health plan, it is a bandaid. n/t
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:47 AM
Response to Original message
4. Considering that she has been ...
Edited on Wed Jul-18-07 09:47 AM by jmp
Hard at work on this since 1993 ... yeah, I believe her.

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MannyGoldstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:51 AM
Response to Original message
5. The Only Way To Really Cut Cost is "Medicare For All"
aka single-payer. In every single country wher it's been tried, they end up with better medical outcomes for, on average, half of our cost.

Everything else is somewhere between fraud and a reckless experiment.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
6. Ah...the "Hail Mary" wing of the Democratic Party chimes in...
Advocating a strategy for universal health care that has failed in every administration since Harry Truman...

The fact is universal health care will not happen in one fell swoop...its gonna happen in stages...

Hillary is quite right that the necessary first step is to lower costs as that is a significant hurdle to the goal of expanding coverage...

It's gonna happen with a good ground game, not tossing a 90 yard pass into the end zone on every play
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:03 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Hillary is bought and paid for
it's always nice to see you actually posting on a thread that has to do with the issues. isn't this so much better than the usual candidate drivel we see posted on DU? i'm sure you agree completely.

Hillary's answer is a sham ... it's a non-answer. We all support lowering costs but that garbage has been peddled for years. Everyone's going to implement great big IT cost savings. We were told about all this great cost-lowering prevention when Nixon et al came up with HMO's. More garbage. And a best practices institute??? give me a break ... Is she promising to form a committee too? How about a panel discussion? maybe that would get the 47 million better care ...

The only thing wrong with Hillary's ideas is that they won't make the large scale changes we need. You nice and comfy with your current health care arrangements? many people are not.

Single Payer is gaining ground and it's getting tons of publicity from Michael Moore's movie. He's a real champion of health care. Hillary is nothing but a champion of Hillary. It's at least nice to see that you recognize your candidate is an "incrementalist." Now if we could just get you to understand that people are dying TODAY and that sort of incrementalism is unconscionable. You keep playing your little candidate games. It won't change a damned thing and more will die. Single payer is the system we need. It's not a "Hail Mary"; it's a very workable solution that could gain widespread support if we weren't stuck with chicken shit, finger in the wind candidates like Hillary.
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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:10 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. ...
Detail for me the exact strategy you believe will result in Universal Single payer health care in the next 5 years...what Republican Senators and Congressmen will you convince to go along with such a strategy...

I agree large scale changes are needed...I disagree that it is possible to do them all at once...

btw I am a small businessman paying 100% of my own health care coverage...so I know quite well how expensive health care coverage is...so lowering costs is in fact quite important to me...
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. "detail for me the exact strategy"
the exact strategy is that you put one foot in front of the other ... the exact strategy is that you 1. recognize that single payer is the only way things will change 2. educate the American people on its benefits and 3. fight like hell for it

the real answer to your question is that it will take LEADERSHIP ... you think Americans are going to be inspired to demand change with Hillary's IT proposal or her "best practices institute" proposal. Nothing wrong with those ideas but they just won't lead to anything real. it's like she's going to have a campaign to tell us all to slim down and get more exercise. a good idea to be sure but not effective ...

as for your small business, i think that's a critically important point. small businesses are the backbone of our economy. the following excerpt about single payer talks about the impact (i.e. costs) to employers relative to current costs (and benefits):

source: http://www.pnhp.org/facts/singlepayer_faq.php#raise_taxes

A universal public system would be financed this way: The public financing already funneled to Medicare and Medicaid would be retained. The difference, or the gap between current public funding and what we would need for a universal health care system, would be financed by a payroll tax on employers (about 7%) and an income tax on individuals (about 2%). The payroll tax would replace all other employer expenses for employees’ health care. The income tax would take the place of all current insurance premiums, co-pays, deductibles, and any and all other out of pocket payments. For the vast majority of people a 2% income tax is less than what they now pay for insurance premiums and in out-of-pocket payments such as co-pays and deductibles, particularly for anyone who has had a serious illness or has a family member with a serious illness. It is also a fair and sustainable contribution. Currently, over 41 million people have no insurance and thousands of people with insurance are bankrupted when they have an accident or illness. Employers who currently offer no health insurance would pay more, but they would receive health insurance for the same low rate as larger firms. Many small employers have to pay 25% or more of payroll now for health insurance – so they end up not having insurance at all. For large employers, a payroll tax in the 7% range would mean they would pay less than they currently do (about 8.5%). No employer, moreover, would hold a competitive advantage over another because his cost of business did not include health care. And health insurance would disappear from the bargaining table between employers and employees.

Another consideration is that everyone would have the same comprehensive health coverage, including all medical, hospital, eye care, dental care, long-term care, and mental health services. Currently, many people and businesses are paying huge premiums for insurance that is almost worthless if they were to have a serious illness.
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:55 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. And if the American people still don't want it ...
the exact strategy is that you put one foot in front of the other ... the exact strategy is that you 1. recognize that single payer is the only way things will change 2. educate the American people on its benefits and 3. fight like hell for it

I guess you cram it down their throats?



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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #12
13. why do you peddle this bullshit???
has anyone talked about cramming anything ... although your post brings similar thoughts to mind ...

if you read my post, you'll see that I called for LEADERSHIP to educate the American people on the benefits of single payer ... you'll see that I talked about giving them information about how it would work so that they would demand single payer ...

what you won't see is anything about cramming ... Hillary's so called program is pathetic beyond belief ... it's a very, very sorry excuse for a program ... it's unconscionable that any candidate would fail the 47 million with no health coverage as badly as Hillary's non-answer would ... she's going to reduce costs ... yeah, what, in twenty years or more?

are you opposed to single payer? why? Do you object to Medicare too?? do you think there just might be a wee bit of linkage between candidates taking corporate money and the policies they advocate?
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. are you opposed to single payer?
are you opposed to single payer? why?

I oppose anything that covers people that don't want to be covered. If individuals want to opt-in to a government financed and/or operated scheme, that should be their choice. It is 1 option that should be available along with private health insurance, supplemental insurance, private health care accounts ... and no coverage at all if that is the choice of that individual.

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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #15
16. ah, a libertarian theme ... me, me, me, me, me ...
we currently RATION health care by PRICE. 47 million can't afford coverage. health care costs are the number one reason for bankruptcies in the US ...

the current system is badly broken. it's killing people. it's making businesses less competitive. for a wealthy country, the current state of affairs is a disgrace.

i'm not necessarily opposed to an "opt out" hybrid system (not enough info). but that is not the focus of this thread. the focus, at least the primary focus based on the question in the OP, was how to address the 47 million who have no health coverage. all i've heard from you is that you want to save your own ass; i haven't heard you express much concern about anyone else's. if your statement that "If individuals want to opt-in to a government financed and/or operated scheme, that should be their choice. is sincere, then what proposals from which candidates help achieve that? Certainly nothing Hillary said talks about a "government operated SCHEME."

Exactly how would you bring about a ""government operated SCHEME" to address the 47 million?
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jmp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. re: me, me, me, me, me ...
we currently RATION health care by PRICE. 47 million can't afford coverage. health care costs are the number one reason for bankruptcies in the US ...

No kidding.

the current system is badly broken. it's killing people.

You mean "allowing people to die", don't you? "Killing people" is hyperbole if not hysterics.

for a wealthy country, the current state of affairs is a disgrace.

Well at least we can agree on that much.

i'm not necessarily opposed to an "opt out" hybrid system (not enough info). but that is not the focus of this thread. the focus, at least the primary focus based on the question in the OP, was how to address the 47 million who have no health coverage. all i've heard from you is that you want to save your own ass; i haven't heard you express much concern about anyone else's.

Speaking of asses ... you sure are making a bunch of assumptions about who I am, my finances & my insurance status ... aren't you?

You might want to consider that a person who opposes your view just may oppose it on principle or even pragmatism.

Exactly how would you bring about a ""government operated SCHEME" to address the 47 million?

I'm not sure I understand the question.

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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
9. Here's a side by side comparison
of the top three - Edwards, Clinton and Obama. Please note: On page 12, there is a mistake. They note that JRE "acknowledges" mental health care when in fact he has said his plan INCLUDES a FULL mental health parity.

http://images.huffingtonpost.com/bluchart1.pdf

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/susan-blumenthal/us-presidential-candida_b_55460.html
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TeamJordan23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
10. When is Hillary going to release her healthcare plan? nm
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LWolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-18-07 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
18. If you are one of the 47 million uninsured Americans,
it's quite possible that the first question for any candidate might be:

Do you think I might be able to see a doctor within the first year of your administration, should you be elected?
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