I saw six politicians & one President last night

Obama did not give a straight answer on the Barry Bonds question. Hilary sweet talked the crowd but really said nothing. Bill Richardson sounds like he is running for class clown rather than president. Biden's smile just makes him look too much like a used car salesman. Dodd was trying to stand on his own shoulders by continuously bringing up his record. Was Edwards even there or did he go out for a hair cut? He did not answer the greatest question posed to him by the gentleman who lost a 1/3rd of his pension & health care benefits. How was he going to take away the CEO's pensions & health care benefits? Did the gentleman who left that debate leave with an assurance from him that he will have his health care benefits in future?

That brings me to Kucinich. He did not back down on any of his beliefs. A true democratic that will never take it lying down. He gave straight answers. No flip-flopping. Many people may think of him as loose canon. But I could see him being one of the greatest presidents of all time.

gawd.

Did you hear a Barry Bonds answer you liked?

When he first announced he was running he was my choice. But now he is getting to cautious because Hilary is eating him up on stuff he says. I would like him to go back to the days where as a new senator he voted against the war even though it was not the popular thing to do. He did not listen to the old guard of the John Kerry's & Hilary Clinton's. He took a strong stance on the Pakistan question but he changed it around a little. He seemed to get more cautious about it in the debate after taking a lot of heat from Hilary over the original way he put it.

Yes? Then he would be criticized for honoring a person who is alleged to have cheated.

No? Then he would have been dissing someone based on an allegation without due process.

What answer did you want?

Sorta like "If Kitty Dukakis were raped and murdered....."

:evilgrin:

tossed to Dukakis by Bernie Shaw. Some say it sinked Dukakis as President.
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2000/debates/history.story/1988.html

IMO Dukakis should have punched Shaw in the mouth.

But any chance to rip on Bonds is a good one IMO!

"I would like him to go back to the days where as a new senator he voted against the war even though it was not the popular thing to do.

Please link to that vote....will ya?

he was in the Illinois STATE senate.

Have they run out of real problems? I could help them with some ideas for problems.

I still dream of Gore leading the charge..... That said I could vote for Edwards, Obama, or Kucinich.

As soon as you people stop giving up before the fight even starts is when Kucinich might actually win this thing.

Whats with the defeatism attitude that is displayed around here so often? People, get a grip, you are all smarter than that. Stop this pessimism bullshit. In that debate last night Kucinich beat them all hands down, he would do the same to any neocon he would go up against in the general election.

He's a long stretch regardless of what the press has to say about him. He didn't even do well on his home turf in the last round of primaries. Has everyone who chooses not to vote for Kucinich been poisoned by the corporate media?

Please tell me this, it is mind boggling for me. You are a member of a very liberal message board. As a community the only candidate that actually supports everything we support is Kucinich. Why would so many here vote against our interests?

Here are some basic wishes that I'd like to make regarding the 2008 Presidential election.

Wish #1: To field a candidate with any chance of winning in a general election

Wish #2: To field a candidate with, at the very least, a history of strong electoral performance on his or her home turf

Wish #3: To elect a candidate whose view on abortion didn't change based on political expediency

Wish #4: To elect a candidate who isn't invested in the nonsensical woo-woo mentality (transcendental meditation and other touchy-feelie new age gobbledygook)

Wish #5: To elect a candidate with any history of leadership or any reason to believe he or she might manifest an ability to lead

Now, which of these wishes does our good friend Dennis have any chance of granting?

And you are trying to tell me you haven't been brainwashed by the corporate media?

Who the fuck cares about image? Are you that shallow?

Give me a candidate that supports abortion.

Give me a candidate that supports civil rights for everyone, no matter what their sexual orientation might be. "Civil unions" don't cut it.

Give me a candidate that has been right on the Iraq war before we went in.

Give me a candidate that has been right on the Iraq war since we went in by refusing to vote to fund it.

Give me a candidate that actually has a plan ready to give all americans free health care.

Give me a candidate that isn't in the pockets of the oil lobby, a candidate that will not doom the Iraqi population to eternal poverty by giving their oil to his/her big oil friends.

Finally give me a candidate that won't bullshit me just to get me to vote for them.

Name me one cadidate running right now outside of Kucinich that falls in to all of those categories. Your perception of his image doesn't mean a damn thing when you elect another stooge that will refuse to stand up to the system. Your idea that a guy who has been right on this war from the beginning has less chance to win than a guy that says stay the course in the general election is fantasy perpeturated to you by the MSM. The only way we will lose in 08 is if we have republican-lite go up against republican. And virtually all the candidates outside of Kucinich are the DLC version of republican-lite. So yes, you have been brainwashed.

No more than you have. Additionally, my inherent bullshit detector prevents me from voting for a candidate who endorses nonsense about woo-woo "spirit energy" and the like.

Nope. But are you that naive? You see that glass and plastic box in your living room? That's a television set. People watch it. Current reality demands that a viable candidate maintain an on-screen presence that is effective (if not credible) with his likely electorate. Kucinich simply doesn't grasp this. Or, if he does, then he does an abysmally poor job of acting like it.

Irrelevant to my point. I wasn't asking Kucinich to support abortion; I'm wondering why a nominally Progressive contender would have voted against RU-486 and against abortion rights. He was apparently of strong conviction on the subject, until it became politically expedient to change his stance. Admirable!

Well, I'll grant you those three. Well played.

I haven't read his plan in its entirety, but his track record at fiscal mismanagement gives me pause. Cleveland in default? WTF?

That would include Obama, Edwards, Dodd, and Biden, at least, would it not?

Sorry, but Kucinich's miraculous change of heart on abortion clearly amounts to "bullshitting me just to get me to vote for him." And he's said a lot of other shit that, if it isn't outright pandering, is still downright disturbing.

Well, your gauzy perception of his image won't count for much when, on election night, you realize that no one outside of (part of) DU and a few people in Kucinich's home district voted for him.

If by some horrible miracle Kucinich were to get the nomination, he'd be painted as soft on defense, soft on the military, and soft on terrorism 24/7 until long after the 2009 inauguration of President (insert Republican here).

I see. So either I'm "with you" or I've been brainwashed. What's it like to live in such a comfortably black-and-white world?

in crazy magic shit. Virgin births, resurrections, water walking....

Believe me, I'd much rather have a rational empiricist in office than a believer in magic, but that's not likely to happen in my lifetime or yours.

As such, I find it necessary to assess each brand of crazy as it shows up in each respective candidate. Kucinich, unfortunately for his acolytes, believes (or claims to believe) in some shit what's sufficiently whacked-out to make me question his fitness for office.

Compared to some of his professed nonsense, belief in the multiplying of the loaves and fishes seems like the height of reason.

Not supporting Dennis Kucinich doesn't mean you are brainwashed by the corporate media.

However, I think the Congressman is getting a bad rap.

1. "He looks like an elf and he doesn't look good on television."
Well, I'll agree he needs a tailor. (I have some suits I'm going to mail to him)

However, such a complaint says more about We the People in 2007.
Abraham Lincoln wouldn't have made the People's 100 Most Beautiful List either.
Franklin Delano Roosevelt stood tall, even though the man could barely stand up.

I'm voting on who got a plan and who wants the work.

2. "Kucinich needs to get off that Department of Peace thing."
I don't agree. In my relatively short lifetime, I've seen humanity accept war as a natural condition. I grew up in the last days of the Cold War. I saw American win it, but in some way lose our soul to do it.
Then we had a chance to move beyond it...instead we just found a new boogieman.

Now we have somebody talking about cutting the crap and solving some of the real problems that face us all (you know, global warming, poverty, hunger, lack of clean water, etc.), and telling us we can do it best by coming together.

Now compare that to starting a war so that a few oilmen, arms dealers, Saudi sheiks and defense contractors get rich.....

Compare those visions...then ask yourself...Who's kooky?

3. "Dennis screwed up as Mayor of Cleveland."
Did he really? There's an awful lot of Clevelanders who disagree. Some of his greatest opponents in 1979, were admitting he was right 10 years later.

Would you like to know more? http://www.truthdig.com/interview/item/20061214_battle_muny_light/

4. "Dennis believes in that New Age stuff."
I love Dennis, but when he gets a little too much Shirley McClain in him, I get nervous...But not too nervous because when he get past the crystals...He making some sense.

Here I'd like to quite the Kos article...
We can conceive of peace as not simply the absence of violence but the presence of the capacity for a higher evolution of human awareness, of respect, trust, and integrity. We can conceive of peace as a tool to tap the infinite capabilities of humanity to transform consciousness and conditions that impel or compel violence at a personal, group, or national level toward creating understanding, compassion, and love. We can bring forth new understandings where peace, not war, becomes inevitable. We can move from wars to end all wars to peace to end all wars.
Citizens across the United States are now uniting in a great cause to establish a Department of Peace, seeking nothing less than the transformation of our society, to make nonviolence an organizing principle, to make war archaic through creating a paradigm shift in our culture for human development for economic and political justice and for violence control. (This what Dennis said)

(This is how the author of the article responds)
"Higher evolution of human awareness"? "Transform consciousness"? "Paradign shift"? What the hell is this crap? I expect this kind of crap out of Deepak Chopra (or Tom Cruise), not a serious presidential candidate.


Compared to some of his professed nonsense, belief in the multiplying of the loaves and fishes seems like the height of reason.

Well I can't speak for others...But I believe in multiplying loaves and fishes. I also believe that the last shall be first and the first shall be last...and that to truly lead, you have to be prepared to truly serve.

Now I'm not big into Deepak, but those statement are far from kooky.
What is a "Higher evolution of human awareness"? In this case, its getting the idea what violence really is at the gut level. I'm not talking about the high-level. Osama bin Laden is a rich brat, but he's a smart rich brat. He's playing on despair, and poverty for his agenda. I'm talking about the gut level.

The gut level is that guy in Ramallah wearing a Semtex vest. Seeing a wall around his town. No sewage system. No jobs and a hostile army firing tank shells at his house.
The gut level is a poor farmer in a town in Honduras trying to organize his neighbors, and getting messed with by government goons bought and paid for by some fruit company.
The gut level is a Nigerian fearing the government "Kill And Go" policemen, funded by oil companies.
The gut level is getting paid 24 cents a day to make Nikes. (that's the "economic justice" part of the program)

Being aware of how these problems play into violence is gaining that higher level of human awareness.

From there gaining that awareness, we "Transform our Consciousness" -- We put our minds towards creating and implementing solutions..Then we have to put in the elbow grease. That means, we have to talk to people who may not what to talk to us. That means we'll have to visit Hugo Chavez, and Lula and Bachelet....and we'll have to go to Darfur and dig in...and we'll even have to talk to Iran and North Korea...

And we'll have to change trade policies and lift workers up instead everybody racing to the bottom.
And we'll just have to make human rights a priority.

The result will be that "Paradigm Shift" -- The idea that our country and the world is dealing with other in a new way, for result that will benefit all of us. Imagine how much more effective we could deal with global warming, energy, disease, and hunger in the world if the world was working together to provide the solutions.

Imagine how much better our inner-cities would be with expanded job programs, schools, infrastructure and health care. (Chipperback's rule -- Filled schools, factories and offices make for empty jails)

That's the paradigm shift...But a big part of them will involve making peace and social justice a real priority.

Now compare that to the way we are doing things now. Compare an emphasis on peace and justice to pre-emptive war, exploitation and economic violence at home and abroad...Then ask yourself who's "whacked out" and "crazy"?

As you think about this...remember these two song lyrics.
"There's no point to the conversation unless the conversation's peace." -- Stevie Wonder
"Free your mind and your ass will follow." -- George Clinton

If we don't put a belief that we can do better and commit to it, how can we expect "rational empirical" results in the challenges of the 21st century?

5. "Dennis is unelectable"
Dennis is electable...All we have to do is vote for him.
Now this is where I talk to fellow Kucinich supporters. We have to suit up, buckle up the chin strap and get in the game.

We know the odds are long. We know that the media is laughing at us all the way. But we have to follow the lead of our candidate:

Dennis is keepin' on keepin' on.

Dennis is slugging it out. He's the 5'6" troll, but that man has a backbone, and a heart.
I've met the man. I'll tell you, he has what "Presidential" is all about.

But he can't do it by himself. We have work to do.
That's means Stop whining about the media ignoring us...and the party ignoring us."
When your area has party committee meetings BE THERE!
Spread the word whenever the opportunity is there.
Respect those who have a different view, but don't back down either. Whether it is here, or on the streets, or in the party meetings, etc.

To those who don't support Dennis, it's cool. We have a big field and all these candidates are a dang sight better than the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

A final thought...Before you call Dennis Kucinich crazy...Remember..

1776 -- "We hold these truths to be self evident..." ARE YOU CRAZY?

1787 -- "We the people, In order to form a more perfect union.." ARE YOU CRAZY?

1861 -- "Labor is greater than capital and should receive the greater consideration" -- ARE YOU CRAZY?

1872 -- "Women's sufferage. That damn Woodhull woman done gone crazy!"

1886 -- "Raise less corn and more hell?!?! That Mary Ellen Lease is Crazy!"

1903 -- "WILBER AND ORVILLE ARE CRAZY! THAT THING AIN'T FLYIN'!"

1907 -- "THEY WANNA BREAK UP MY TRUSTS??? IS ROOSEVELT CRAZY?"

1911 -- "YOU WANNA ACTUALLY PAY WORKERS DECENTLY? SO THEY CAN BUY THE CARS??? HENRY, YOU ARE CRAZY!"

1936 -- "WPA? TVA? Protect people's bank accounts FDR IS CRAZY?"

Somewhere in Germany, 1944 -- "THEY LANDED WHERE??? WHERE THE HELL DID ALL THESE BOMBERS COME FROM??? HOW DID THEY BUILD ALL THOSE DAMN TANKS??? ARE THOSE AMERICANS CRAZY???"

1955 -- "YOU AREN'T GIVING UP THE SEAT? WOMAN ARE YOU CRAZY?"

1956 -- "THEM DARN NEGROES AREN'T GETTING ON THE BUSES -- DANG CRAZY REVEREND NAMED KING GOT 'EM ALL RILED UP!"

1961 -- "WE'RE GOING WHERE BY 1970? THE MOON? KENNEDY IS CRAZY!!!"

Moscow, 1962 -- "TURN THOSE SHIPS AROUND NOW! KENNEDY IS CRAZY, LIKE A FOX!"

1963 -- "PROTESTORS ARE COMING ACROSS THE BRIDGE, SHERIFF...ARE THEY CRAZY?"

1965 -- "WAR ON POVERTY? LYNDON...YOU'RE CRAZY!"

1969 -- "THERE'S MEN ON THE MOON -- HOW CRAZY IS THAT???"

1976 -- "IS THIS CARTER GUY FOR REAL? OR JUST CRAZY!"

1979 -- "DON'T BE CRAZY STEVE, NOBODY'S PUTTING A COMPUTER IN THEIR HOUSE"

1991 -- "YOU'D HAVE TO BE CRAZY TO THINK GEORGE BUSH WILL LOSE IN '92"

2007 -- "DEPARTMENT OF PEACE? UNIVERSAL HEALTH CARE? PRESIDENT KUCINICH? YOU ARE TALKING CRAZY!"

2013 -- "Universal Health Care? check! World trade that really works for workers? check! American industry and labor running strong? check! American building a lead in green technology? check! More respected in the world? check! That Department of Peace is getting some things done. AND THINK, IN 2007 EVERYBODY SAID PRESIDENT KUCINICH WAS CRAZY!"

"Craziness" built America. "Craziness" grew America. Is it so crazy that think that the same can save America? I don't think so.

WTF? Cleveland was about to have it's electric utility sold out from under them. Dennis fought it. Dennis won, and some 15 years or so later the city council honored him for the foresight in not selling the utility.

Perhaps you'd rather Clevelanders be paying their bills to Duke Energy, etc.

It's this action that sets the hallmark for Dennis Kucinich. He stands for what he believes in, not for what's expedient. If he says he'll fight for us, then he will.

There are so many that sit back and only talk of Obama and Clinton, why? Is it because she has the experience or because Obama is the one heading in a new direction in Washington? First her experience has only showed me that she is a part of the machine we all hate and Obama who I like, is pointing in a new direction but hasn't been as direct as Kucinich in truly standing for heading that way. It almost seems like Kucinich doesn't have any big secrets hiding in the closet because the media would have brought them to our attention. Instead they are just trying their best to ignore him, not get his name or word out and they are depending on the Americans that believe in their tv box to look at him and say "Hmmm who's that little guy with the high pitch voice? Media never shows him, must be some crack pot. Go Clinton! "

Before many people I talked to liked Edwards but somehow, now that the campaign has been underway, I only hear mostly Clinton supporters and the rest are Obama. Yes I think the media controls what many people think. I really believe that it may take the Obama and Clinton supporters to jump on the Kucinich bandwagon for America to have a chance at getting a Democrat in office that wants to truly help the country. The MSM wants Clinton for some reason and I don't want the MSM's agenda be our next presidents agenda!

I was leaning towards Obama but at this point, I haven't seen anything from Kucinich that I myself don't believe in. I think this guy is serious!

Dennis Kucinich is my President.

Santa?

I've never spoken negatively about your choices. I found your comment rude.

I thought having a sense of humor was a prerequisite for being a
DK supporter.

Hopefully your "president" has thicker skin, it was a joke.

is never a joke.

Yupp.

Oh yeah--because he'd get crushed in an unprecedented electoral landslide.

Still, it would be nice if some of his ideas could get a fair airing, so that people could form a fair assessment of him, rather than relying on what the media tells us.

It would be nice, for instance, to hear his thoughts on astrology, UFOs, transcendental meditation, etc...

:spray:

"It would be nice, for instance, to hear his thoughts on astrology, UFOs, transcendental meditation, etc..."

You said - "It would be nice, for instance, to hear his thoughts on astrology, UFOs, transcendental meditation, etc..."

What is this supposed to mean? Are you saying that Kucinich is a kook?

Which former president and his wife were in to astrology?

Which former president said he believed or even seen a UFO?

What's wrong with TM?

Explain yourself.

So they're irrelevant. The fact that they believed in nonsensical piffle is troubling, but there's nothing to be done about it this point. The best we can hope in this regard is to make sure the influence of such wacky beliefs is limited.

I am, in short, saying that Kucinich is a kook.

Start here for some disturbing information. More abounds.

Yeah, it's really kooky to want peace. What a whacky concept that maybe we can have single payer health care! And isn't it totally silly to want to make sure jobs stay in our country by abandoning NAFTA?

The idea that you must either vote for Kucinich or reject peace is so absurd that it borders on deliberately offensive. Ditto for single-payor health care and the end of NAFTA. But while we're hitching our wagon to the horse named Dennis, why not wish for cold fusion, 1,000 mpg cars, and free ice cream for everybody on Tuesdays?

Kucinich is in the dubiously enviable position of not having to worry about ever making good on any campaign promises, because he's in no danger of stumbling into office and being called upon to deliver. Sorry, but that's the reality of it.

what I saw was you dissing Kucinich, and ALL his ideas. If you think they have any merit (I'm talking about ending NAFTA, healthcare, etc), how do you propose to take those ideas to the other candidates and have them change their positions? Or do you think that the other candidate's positions on these subjects are better?

Nowhere did I say that his goals re: NAFTA or on healthcare are bad. I addressed several key aspects of his views, his history, and his general electability, any of which make him a non-viable candidate.

When I dismiss him as a kook, that's hardly the same as saying "all of his ideas are bad." I mean, even a stopped clock...

It's simply non-representative to claim that, in rejecting Kucinich or a large majority of his views, I have somehow declared that all of his suggested policies should be rejected.

Heck, it would be great if he were in a position to help draft legislation along the lines that he's proposing. Maybe he could demonstrate some of his leadership ability and unite his colleagues in enacting single-payor healthcare or ending NAFTA.

Too many times our brightest and best are brought down by heaped on bullshit.

I think it's hysterical when my republican mother stated that he's her candidate this time. Wacky beliefs or not she trusts him and feels he is the best candidate to pull us out of this mess.

Nice try.

Kucinich is, at best, a nominal candidate about whom we can say "wouldn't it be nice if we lived in that world?" Unfortunately, we live in this one. Failure to recognize this is not a sign of a mature candidate or a realistic constituency.

Kucinich has no history of decisive leadership or of successfully rallying anyone to do anything other than what they would already have done anyway. To say that "he's the best candidate to pull us out of this mess" is to base one's vote entirely on wishful thinking.

As I mentioned previously, Kucinich has the enviable luxury of not having to worry about getting anywhere near the general election, so he's free to say pretty much whatever he damn well pleases with no real fear of the consequences. Contrast that with a candidate who actually has to worry about succeeding with a majority of the general electorate, and it becomes clear that he's pursuing a different agenda entirely.

Good for Dennis. I hope that his campaign brings some attention to some of the issues that he advocates (or, at least, that he advocates while political expediency drives him to advocate them).

But point to any random person currently within your line of sight, and that person has at least as much chance of gaining the Whitehouse as Kucinich does.

republicans are admiring him. Yes I realize it can be seen as wishful thinking, I prefer to see it as hope for a brighter future.

I think it sounds like a good place to start.

historically, there's only a very small percentage of people who vote without party affiliation in mind, and its only been getting more polarized. The biggest deciding factors come election day are voter turnout, and how that marginally small section of America votes. That said, if we mobilize enough people in the party, we can field ANY candidate, regardless of what people truly think, within limits of course. Kucinich is not seen as some crazy lunatic trying to be president, he's just shut out of the public discourse. This is one of the many reasons why I will be voting for Kucinich in the primary. Look at any recent election data, take a government class somewhere, and you'll see that this is why our elections are so close when the candidates seem so obviously unelectable, as Bush was. It is because party affiliation is the #1 SINGLE MOST DECIDING FACTOR IN THE ELECTION! So it would serve us well to vote for people who have true progressive ideas on moving this country forward.

I'm still a Gore/Clark fan, but as the days go on I doubt either will run, but that doesn't mean I don't support Kucinich 100%

You want us to keep NAFTA and stay in the WTO?

From your comments, you'd rather ignore Kucinich's good ideas and talk about other things.

It seems that you'd like to look only selectively at Kucinich's character and beliefs, focusing on what appeals to you and conveniently ignoring the rest.

First among the criteria for candidates must be general electability. Kucinich ain't got it. End of story.

Some of his ideas may be good. Some of his ideas are wildly outside of reason. But the combination of his own merits and shortcomings makes him unelectable.

Your dismissive posts indicate that you think ALL of Kucinich's ideas are not worth looking at. I didn't see anything in your post indicating that you wished other candidates should look at the postitions I mentioned. And so I am sure they won't. And we'll be stuck with NAFTA, be forced to buy health insurance from insurance companies, and we'll continue staying in Iraq.

and maybe someone will believe you. Lots of people on the Dem sites ask for 'unity' should their candidate win the nomination. Are you willing to support Dennis when he wins? If all Dems do, it'll be a case of convincingh the independents, and they apparently are fed up with the Repugs. I'd say there's a really good shot for Dennis to win the election should he be nominated.

It's always helpful to use Repub talking points against your own party.

But I do not stand for those people who do not believe in what it means to be a democratic party member. Edwards haircut is a big deal. We should oppose stuff like that more so than the repubs. He did not need a $400 haircut when he talks about there being 2 America's. To me the gentleman's question was very sensitive. I joined a corporation that is union a few years ago with excellent health care benefits at very little cost to me. Four years later & they are trying to raise rates that is going to take at least $3000.00 more out of paycheck next year. How am I going to sit across from my wife at the table & tell her we cannot afford her health care anymore. Meanwhile Edwards wants to cut the CEO's pensions & health care. What good is that going to do for me? He will go home & have his $400.00 haircut & I will be forced to pay $3000.00 more from my pay next year. My companies CEO will get a $2 million raise for reducing health care costs. Lets talk about 2 America's Mr. Edwards.

If your boss gave you a $400 bonus...or should he just keep it to himself and hoard the money?

He didn't flip-flop at all. Said "yes" and "no" and didn't BS. I loved it.

Very impressive!

TC

he does not look at all like a president AND that alone will sink him. I know, I know, but you KNOW how Americans are, look at the hang up on celebs, if he doesn't look the part they people will overlook him.

I'm not sure your argument makes a lot of sense.

if bush didn't lower all bars I don't know what did

why do people repeat these corporatist talking points over and over?

Do people think nobody will work for Dennis if he gets the nomination?

Everybody seems to say that they will support the nominee even if it is Hillary! But not Dennis?

Because basically when you turn on the radio or TV, that's all you get!

Other countries have successfully used propaganda to manipulate their people. Do we think they were somehow dumber than we are?

Propaganda: You're soaking in it.

like when they stole the elections.

but I just don't support Kucinich. Now, that doesn't make me a corporate shill and it doesn't make me a DLC propagandist and it doesn't make me an enemy of democratic ideals and principles. I just don't respond to him the way you do and I in no way believe he has the gravitas needed to handle the HUGE problems the President will have after * leaves. I see him and I don't think "Presidential Material". I think "also ran". But you're free to support anyone you like as am I and everyone else.

Can't someone disagree with your choice without being subtly attacked and labeled as some kind of sell-out?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

nearing my 1,000 Post on DU and I finally get called a Troll! :eyes:

YOU may not have called ME any of those things, but for people on this Thread who aren't supporting Dennis (gasp!), the message couldn't be clearer: if you believe Dennis doesn't have what it takes to be President, well, then you must have bought into the MSM message.

And please explain to me how I've been intellectually dishonest? Actually, don't. I have more important things to worry about and focus on than why someone on DU accused me of something so inane and ridiculous that I literally did the Scooby-Doo "wha?" when I read it. Oh well.

As you were.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

(If you don't know what albedo is, look it up.)

Dennis will probably be the first president to know about FSM!

Another reason to support him!

Go Dennis!
http://dennis4president.com

I am sure the Democrats can find some good looking actor, and nominate him or her as our candidate for President.

Who cares about substance when we can continue to have more of the same old shit?

and people will think you are really shallow.

:evilgrin:

I love Kucinich, I just want to win. Until they fix the whole system, I'll take the lesser of evils.

Ten huge holes in it - but it still is not a shoe!!

Those that don't? Well, they're almost entirely shooed away from public office, despite a nominal ban on religious tests for eligibility.


Just sayin'.

Are you (shoe lace) stringing me along??

Clark - Kucinich....or Kucinich - Clark.

is way too premature.

It is still 15 months until the General Election, and all the seers with all the crystal balls in the world cannot predict what may happen to change the voters minds.

Kucinich may look like a long shot right now, but he may emerge as the logical choice for the Presidency once all of the "rock stars" have lost their charm.

My only misgiving about what you say is that the MSM is attempting to whittle down the field prematurely. Part of this is because the season has started so early. I believe that primary season can level the playing field between the name-recognition "rock stars" and the previously obscure candidates, that it can allow candidates to gain momentum, followers, organizations, and money. Time on the stump can help candidates to sharpen their messages. Interaction with other candidates and with voters can tug the front runner further to the left or further to the right depending on the mood of the electorate and the strength of the competition. All these are good things but many of them run the risk of being lost if the MSM attempts to rush the process by declaring the race "all over" and coronating its corporate choice as the heir apparent before much of America has even started paying attention.

...is quite ridiculous and pathetic. I would expect better reasoning than that from a Democrat.

from last nite's debate was more than 1 candidate who could do the job. Frankly, most of the Dems who are running are all great. Better than what we've had in the past (besides Gore, of course). To have this many candidates who are qualified is a good thing. It's way to early to even speculate who will be President.
I do expect to see a dark horse arise from the 2nd tier candidates- mainly Biden. He is honest and straightforward and tells it like it is. He was a little harsh last night on some questions but he's a middle class man who earned eveything he has. And he will take care of the middle class if he's given the oppurtunity. Besides- we all know that he's got the experience w/ foreign policy and domestic issues. America needs someone looking out for us- and Biden is a simple man and really is one of us. Unfortunately because of this he lacks the funding. If he can last this marathon campaign he may have a real shot next year. Fyi- Edwards is the used car salesman! Biden actually looks Presidential on camera. So what if he has a nice smile? He's honest- that's what's important isn't it?

However, I believe that some have better proven judgment and abilities.

actual president Truman

Kucinich looking no less presidential

I just don't see the "presidential" part.

Unless of course Gore gets in, then it will be a thinker.

Biden might look a little used-car salesish.
But what about Mitt Romney???
I bet he could sell the hell out of a 93 Taurus with a bad transmission!!!

n/t

Not only was he pleased with his answer, he said John Edwards is his favorite candidate.

Definitely presidential material.


Best candidate up there.

DR

all day. Hello?

You opined:

"Was Edwards even there or did he go out for a hair cut? He did not answer the greatest question posed to him by the gentleman who lost a 1/3rd of his pension & health care benefits. How was he going to take away the CEO's pensions & health care benefits? Did the gentleman who left that debate leave with an assurance from him that he will have his health care benefits in future?"

You decide:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x45982

Kucinich was the only that didn't bullshit us about NAFTA. He said that within a week of being President he would pull out of NAFTA and out of WTO.

Repeal Taft-Harley!

He seems like a real person. None of the others appeal much to me so far.

I have always liked him but last night it just seemed that he acted like a president. I don't like
the leading candidates talking about nukes, or just plain bombing to chase down Osama.
Look at the times our intelligence was "wrong" and innocent people have been bombed instead
of a leading Al Qaeda figures.