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Can * reactive the draft By just notifying Congress or does Congress need to approve?

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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 04:34 PM
Original message
Can * reactive the draft By just notifying Congress or does Congress need to approve?
I have read the Selective Service Act several times and cannot find a requirement, "in time of war" where the President must ask for approval, only when not at war. He must notify Congress that more troops are needed and can not be acquired by volunteer means or quickly enough without a
call up.

Please let us get to the facts of this matter, so that we know our options. I think this will be useful for both sides of this issue.

Factual info will help support your position.
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endarkenment Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 04:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. We are not at war.
despite the bullshit warnterra rhetoric, no official state of war exists as there has been no formal declaration of war. Consequently, absent a formal declaration of war, the cabal would have to go to the rubber stamp congress and get them to approve a peacetime draft.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I disagree, you may not like it but "we are at war" and Congress voted to give the President
the right to wage this war. This would be a very slim tread to hang onto, if * does not have to get approval or not.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Wrong...Congress has not DECLARED war therefore we are not AT war.
At best Congress granted a letter of "Marque and Reprisal" to the President but NOT a declaration of war.

Sorry - this "war" is no more Constitutional than the Korean War, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, or Afghanistan which isn't a war either.

Doug D.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
3. So All He Has to Do Is Start ANOTHER War. That's The Only Thing ** is Good At
:scared:
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Do you have any info re the ssa? We need to know the options.
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barack4prez Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Please post a USC citation for the SSA.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Here are several links I found, some contradict how it would be currently used. The gov
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
6. Congress has not declared war...
Article I Section 8 establishes that ONLY Congress may declare war - no such power exists in Article II, Section 2 for the President.

Thus Congress has NOT declared war and since a state of war has not been declared since 1942 and that war was ended with the Japanese surrender in 1945, no state of war exists Constitutionally speaking. If the President unilaterally attempts to reimpose the draft, he will be impeached because Republican Congressmen and Senators want to be re-elected in 2008.

Watch how quickly the Republicans sign up to impeach Bush if he tries to reactivate the draft.

This was just a trial balloon to see how the reaction would be floated by Bush's official sword faller on-er the new "war czar".

It might be an attempt to soften up the public by dribbling it out and letting the talking heads banter about it but the public will not tolerate a draft because it means that THEY could be asked to go die for George Bush's "mistake" in Iraq.

Doug D.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Neither was Korea or VietNam, but the draft was in effect. I am
looking at how we address this issue.

Plan A:
If he can just notify Congress then we need to get Congress to amend the ssa and require the president to get approval.

or Plan B:
If he needs approval then we have to let Congress know our position for or against.
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barack4prez Donating Member (128 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Hang on . . . too many word thingys for me
UNITED STATES CODE SERVICE

*** CURRENT THROUGH P.L. 110-51, APPROVED 7/31/2007 ***

TITLE 50. WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
TITLE 50 APPENDIX -- WAR AND NATIONAL DEFENSE
MILITARY SELECTIVE SERVICE ACT
ACT JUNE 24, 1948, CH 625, 62 STAT. 604


Go to the United States Code Service Archive Directory

50 USCS Appx § 460

§ 460. Selective Service System

(a) Establishment; construction; appointment of Director; termination and reestablishment of Office of Selective Service Records.
(1) There is hereby established in the executive branch of the Government an agency to be known as the Selective Service System, and a Director of Selective Service who shall be the head thereof.
(2) The Selective Service System shall include a national headquarters, at least one State headquarters in each State, Territory, and possession of the United States, and in the District of Columbia, and the local boards, appeal boards, and other agencies provided for in subsection (b)(3) of this section.
(3) The Director shall be appointed by the President, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate.
(4) The functions of the Office of Selective Service Records (established by the Act of March 31, 1947 <50 USCS Appx. §§ 321 et seq.>) and of the Director of the Office of Selective Service Records are hereby transferred to the Selective Service System and the Director of Selective Service, respectively. The personnel, property, records, and unexpended balances (available or to be made available) of appropriations, allocations, and other funds of the Office of Selective Service Records are hereby transferred to the Selective Service System. The Office of Selective Service Records shall cease to exist upon the taking of effect of the provisions of this title: Provided, That effective upon the termination of this title and notwithstanding such termination in other respects, (A) the said Office of Selective Service Records is hereby reestablished on the same basis and with the same functions as obtained prior to the effective date of this title , (B) said reestablished Office shall be responsible for liquidating any other outstanding affairs of the Selective Service System, and (C) the personnel, property, records, and unexpended balances (available or to be made available) of appropriations, allocations, and other funds of the Selective Service System shall be transferred to such reestablished Office of Selective Service Records.

(b) Administrative provisions. The President is authorized to undertake the following:
(1) To prescribe the necessary rules and regulations to carry out the provisions of this title.
(2) To appoint, upon recommendation of the respective governor, or comparable executive official, a State director of the Selective Service System for each headquarters in each State, Territory, and possession of the United States and for the District of Columbia, who shall represent the governor and be in immediate charge of the State headquarters of the Selective Service System: Provided, That no State director shall serve concurrently in an elected or appointed position of a State or local government; to employ such number of civilians, and, subject to subsection (e), to order to active duty with their consent and to assign to the Selective Service System such officers of the selective-service section of the State headquarters and headquarters detachments and such other officers of the federally recognized National Guard of the United States or other armed forces personnel (including personnel of the reserve components thereof), as may be necessary for the administration of the national and of the several State headquarters of the Selective Service System.
(3) To create and establish within the Selective Service System civilian local boards, civilian appeal boards, and such other civilian agencies, including agencies of appeal, as may be necessary to carry out its functions with respect to the registration, examination, classification, selection, assignment, delivery for induction, and maintenance of records of persons registered under this title, together with such other duties as may be assigned under this title: Provided, That no person shall be disqualified from serving as a counselor to registrants, including service as Government appeal agent, because of his membership in a Reserve component of the Armed Forces. He shall create and establish one or more local boards in each county or political subdivision corresponding thereto of each State, territory, and possession of the United States, and in the District of Columbia. The local board and/or its staff shall perform their official duties only within the county or political subdivision corresponding thereto for which the local board is established, or in the case of an intercounty board, within the area for which such board is established, except that the staffs of local boards in more than one county of a State or comparable jurisdiction may be collocated or one staff may serve local boards in more than one county of a State or comparable jurisdiction when such action is approved by the Governor or comparable executive official or officials. Each local board shall consist of three or more members to be appointed by the President from recommendations made by the respective Governors or comparable executive officials. In making such appointments after the date of the enactment of the Act enacting this sentence , the President is requested to appoint the membership of each local board so that to the maximum extent practicable it is proportionately representative of the race and national origin of those registrants within its jurisdiction, but no action by any local board shall be declared invalid on the ground that any board failed to conform to any particular quota as to race or national origin. No citizen shall be denied membership on any local board or appeal board on account of sex. After December 31, 1971, no person shall serve on any local board or appeal board who has served on any local board or appeal board for a period of more than 20 years. Notwithstanding any other provision of this paragraph, an intercounty local board consisting of at least one member from each component county or corresponding subdivision may, with the approval of the Governor or comparable executive official or officials, be established for an area not exceeding five counties or political subdivisions corresponding thereto within a State or comparable jurisdiction when the President determines, after considering the public interest involved, that the establishment of such local board area will result in a more efficient and economical operation. Any such intercounty local board shall have within its area the same power and jurisdiction as a local board has in its area. A local board may include among its members any citizen otherwise qualified under Presidential regulations, provided he is at least eighteen years of age. No member of any local board shall be a member of the Armed Forces of the United States, but each member of any local board shall be a civilian who is a citizen of the United States residing in the county or political subdivision corresponding thereto in which such local board has jurisdiction, and each intercounty local board shall have at least one member from each county or political subdivision corresponding thereto included within the intercounty local board area. Such local boards, or separate panels thereof each consisting of three or more members, shall, under rules and regulations prescribed by the President, have the power within the respective jurisdictions of such local boards to hear and determine subject to the right of appeal to the appeal boards herein authorized, all questions or claims with respect to inclusion for, or exemption or deferment from, training and service under this title, of all individuals within the jurisdiction of such local boards. The decisions of such local board shall be final, except where an appeal is authorized and is taken in accordance with such rules and regulations as the President may prescribe. There shall be no less than one appeal board located within the area of each Federal judicial district in the United States and within each Territory and possession of the United States, and such additional separate panels thereof, as may be prescribed by the President. Appeal boards within the Selective Service System shall be composed of civilians who are citizens of the United States and who are not members of the armed forces. The decision of such appeal boards shall be final in cases before them on appeal unless modified or changed by the President. The President, upon appeal or upon his own motion, shall have power to determine all claims or questions with respect to inclusion for, or exemption or deferment from training and service under this title and the determination of the President shall be final. No judicial review shall be made of the classification or processing of any registrant by local boards, appeal boards, or the President, except as a defense to a criminal prosecution instituted under section 12 of this title <50 USCS Appx. § 462>, after the registrant has responded either affirmatively or negatively to an order to report for induction, or for civilian work in the case of a registrant determined to be opposed to participation in war in any form: Provided, That such review shall go to the question of the jurisdiction herein reserved to local boards, appeal boards, and the President only when there is no basis in fact for the classification assigned to such registrant. No person who is a civilian officer, member, agent, or employee of the Office of Selective Service Records, or the Selective Service System, or of any local board or appeal board or other agency of such Office or System, shall be excepted from registration or deferred or exempted from training and service, as provided for in this title, by reason of his status as such civilian officer, member, agent, or employee.
(4) To appoint, and to fix, in accordance with the provisions of chapter 51 and subchapter III of chapter 53 of title 5, United States Code <5 USCS §§ 5101 et seq., §§ 5331 et seq.>, relating to classification and General Schedule pay rates, the basic pay of such officers, agents, and employees as he may deem necessary to carry out the provisions of this title, however, any officer of the Armed Forces or any officer or employee of any department or agency of the United States who may be assigned or detailed to any office or position to carry out the provisions of this title (except to offices or positions on local boards or appeal boards established or created pursuant to section 10(b)(3) ) may serve in and perform the functions of such office or position without loss of or prejudice to his status as such officer in the armed forces or as such officer or employee in any department or agency of the United States.
(5) To utilize the services of any or all departments and any and all officers or agents of the United States, and to accept the services of all officers and agents of the several States, Territories, and possessions, and subdivisions thereof, and the District of Columbia, and of private welfare organizations, in the execution of this title.
(6) To purchase such printing, binding, and blank-book work from public, commercial, or private printing establishments or binderies upon orders placed by the Public Printer or upon waivers issued in accordance with section 12 of the Printing Act approved January 12, 1895, as amended, and to obtain by purchase, loan, or gift such equipment and supplies for the Selective Service System, as he may deem necessary to carry out the provisions of this title, with or without advertising or formal contract.
(7) To prescribe eligibility, rules, and regulations governing the release for service in the armed forces, or for any other special service established pursuant to this title, of any person convicted of a violation of any of the provisions of this title.
(8) Subject to the availability of funds appropriated for such purpose, to procure such space as he may deem necessary to carry out the provisions of this title and the Act of March 31, 1947 (50 U.S.C. App. 321 et seq.).
(9) Subject to the availability of funds appropriated for such purposes, to determine the location of such additional temporary installations as he may deem essential; to utilize and enlarge such existing installations; to construct, install, and equip, and to complete the construction, installation, and equipment of such buildings, structures, utilities, and appurtenances (including the necessary grading and removal, repair or remodeling of existing structures and installations), as may be necessary to carry out the provisions of this title; and, in order to accomplish the purpose of this title, to acquire lands, and rights pertaining thereto, or other interests therein, for temporary use thereof, by donation or lease, and to prosecute construction thereon prior to the approval of the title by the Attorney General as required by section 355, Revised Statutes, as amended <40 USCS §§ 3111, 3112>.
(10) Subject to the availability of funds appropriated for such purposes, to utilize, in order to provide and furnish such services as may be deemed necessary or expedient to accomplish the purposes of this title, such personnel of the armed forces and of Reserve components thereof with their consent, and such civilian personnel, as may be necessary. For the purposes of this title, the provisions of section 14 of the Federal Employees' Pay Act of 1946 (Public Law 390, Seventy-ninth Congress) with respect to the maximum limitations as to the number of civilian employees shall not be applicable to the Department of the Army, the Department of the Navy, or the Department of the Air Force.

(c) Delegation of President's authority. The President is authorized to delegate any authority vested in him under this title, and to provide for the sub-delegation of any such authority.

(d) Acceptance of gifts and voluntary services. In the administration of this title, gifts of supplies, equipment, and voluntary services may be accepted.

(e) Armed forces personnel assigned to the Selective Service System. The total number of armed forces personnel assigned to the Selective Service System under subsection (b)(2) at any time may not be less than the number of such personnel determined by the Director of Selective Service to be necessary, but not to exceed 745 persons, except that the President may assign additional armed forces personnel to the Selective Service System during a time of war or a national emergency declared by Congress or the President.

(f) Settlement of travel claims, etc. The Director is authorized to make final settlement of individual claims, for amounts not exceeding $ 500, for travel and other expenses of uncompensated personnel of the Office of Selective Service Records, or the Selective Service System, incurred while in the performance of official duties, without regard to other provisions of law governing the travel of civilian employees of the Federal Government.

(g) Reports to Congress. The Director of Selective Service shall submit to the Congress annually a written report covering the operation of the Selective Service System and such report shall include, by States, information as to the number of persons registered under this Act; the number of persons inducted into the military service under this Act; the number of deferments granted under this Act and the basis for such deferments; and such other specific kinds of information as the Congress may from time to time request.

(h) Maintenance of System after institution of all volunteer program for meeting manpower needs. The Selective Service system shall be maintained as an active standby organization, with (1) a complete registration and classification structure capable of immediate operation in the event of a national emergency, and (2) personnel adequate to reinstitute immediately the full operation of the System, including military reservists who are trained to operate such System and who can be ordered to active duty for such purpose in the event of a national emergency (including a structure for registration and classification of persons qualified for practice or employment in a health care occupation essential to the maintenance of the Armed Forces).
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. This is one of the links I posted in #8, but the amendments are missing
like the one Ford issued to stop registration and the one Carter issued to restart registration and even more current ones allowing a skills draft of medical people.

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Semper_FiFi Donating Member (452 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. So can he or can't he?
Does * need the approval of congress to re-instate the draft or not? I know I am not as bright as some of the people here, but this issue seems like it should be cut and dry.

I am still confused.:shrug:
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:58 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. That is what I am trying to determine, but nobody seems to care. My
understanding from what I can find is * just needs to notify Congress. But I can not find exact wording of 1980 amendments on gov sites, only reference to them on non-gov sites which some say one thing and others say the opposite.

I tried emailing my Blue Dog rep and just got a form letter response.

I am afraid everyone will slam on Congress to vote down a draft, when in fact they may not have any say in the matter, unless they amend the ssa to force the President to get approval.

Call or email your Congress Rep and try to get their opinion. DU doesn't seem to worry about it so I'm letting it go for now.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:27 AM
Response to Reply #12
18. Semper Fi, Parris Is, Aug 1957 and welcome to DU. n/t
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-13-07 11:45 PM
Response to Original message
13. Bush has nothing but utter contempt for Congress because Congress will always cave-in to him
If Bush wanted to start conscription, he would just go ahead and do so. He won't! A draft would radicalize a lot of people that have remained untouched by the war, so there is no way that Bush, or any other President, would ever start conscription.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. Head in the sand approach is not a good planning tool or good democracy. n/t
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nadinbrzezinski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:09 AM
Response to Original message
16. The way they've done anything I will not be surprised if
he does this by executive order

And from a political point of view, the best choice actually

Whether you agree with a draft or not... having the Congress pass the legislation will make the democrats own the war even more than they already do

And if this is cynical, absolutely

And by the way, does not matter how it is enacted, the youth will suddenly will have skin in the game and will start paying attention
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:22 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. I am hoping this will get someone in Congress to request a legal opinion from the AG,
to put it on the record. I don't expect an quick(or honest) answer from the AG.

But since this will impact the campaign(if it happens) and may cost us the election, it would be nice to be out front once in awhile, instead of picking our asses off the sidewalk all the time.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
19. congress needs to approve
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. I found that from 2002, but I can not find anything to support that. But thank you and I will
it for now. None of their publications have the actual amendment of 1980 which restarted the ssa, and I find that way off base.
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MonkeyFunk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 12:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. well it's on the current
Selective Service web page.
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CK_John Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-14-07 01:04 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Just states that it is an overview, but all their reports are about organization and budgets.
I'll give them the benefit of doubt for now. But do I trust it because it is a gov site, no. I would like to see the legislation that implements the ssa to backup that claim.

They have doctored and removed many gov sites in the last couple of years.

It late and I'm calling it a nite.
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