Postage for mail-in ballots: Poll tax?

A few jurisdictions have moved to all mail-in ballots, essentially eliminating polling places. King County, Washington, will be going to all mail-in ballots starting in 2008. Ballots do not comes with postage-paid envelopes; any person who wishes to vote must purchase postage for an oversized envelope, which currently is 97 cents. People who can not or will not pay postage are disenfranchised.

Does this amount to a poll tax, which is prohibited by the 24th Amendment?

It's not a poll tax. It's postage.

Sheesh!

... just sayin'.

They should be postage-paid bulk mail forms, if they really and truly want ALL of America to participate.

...because of 97 cents postage, wasn't going to vote anyway.
And yes, they should be postage paid.

When you are living on minimum wage, 97 cents is a huge sum. It is the difference between washing your uniform at the laundromat, or wearing it dirty to work for the next three days. It is the difference between taking the bus home after a 10 hour day or having to walk two miles. For many people, it can mean the difference between having something to eat during the day, or going hungry (read "Nickel and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich.)

Should American citizens living on minimum wage -- or less -- be disenfranchised because the postage is more than they could afford? If it is so paltry, why shouldn't the state be obligated to pick up the tab and provide postage paid envelopes for returning the ballots?

No postage necessary.

I am a mailman, but to be honest the postage is a lot less then the money (per voter) of setting up everything on election day, so much cheaper in the end

Let's see, we have a little over 400 days until the ballot needs to go in the mail, so if people can put away 1 penny every 4 days....


I'm sure that with a little luck and some self-discipline, most folks can manage that.

In order to vote, you must pay money to the government. How is that not a poll tax?

Seriously, cut it out!
It's not a frikkin' poll tax.
A poll tax is a poll tax.
Postage is postage.
Yes, there are issues here.
But there are issues no matter what method is employed.
Calling postage a "poll tax" is just silly.
Cut it out!

And the only basis for your answer is sulk and call me silly. Thanks for participating! :hi:

Here's what you do, TB_S:

Next election, go ahead and vote absentee and mail it in. Keep detailed records.

The following April 15, claim the postage as a "tax" and use it as a deduction on your IRS Schedule A.

Let us know what the IRS has to say about it.

When King County moves to mandatory all-mail ballots next year, I will see whether or not the return envelope for my presidential primary ballot is post paid. If it is not, I will consider a legal challenge against the county based on the 24th Amendment.

Would that be sufficient for you?

Best of luck to you.

One of the reasons I asked this quesiton (aside from intellectual curiosity) was to get an idea of what other people thought of the question.

That it is a small amount -- a trivial amount for a lot of people -- is not the point. I believe requiring the purchase of postage in order to vote meets the standard definition of "poll tax," which are unconstitutional for federal elections (via the US Constitution) and the Washington state constitution (for other elections.) I believe that this is a matter for the courts to review.

Anyway, if the county and state are so keen on getting more people to cast ballots, they should take the savings found by closing all polling places and pass them on to the voter, rather than force the voters to take on an additional, in some cases unreasonable, financial burden.

Because you are just SO silly!

Techbear,
I think you raise a good question, but it looks like the option to drop off a ballot is there.


http://www.secstate.wa.gov/elections/faq_vote_by_mail.aspx

Do I have to return my ballot by mail?
You do not have to return your ballot by mail. You may return your ballot to the County Auditor’s Office or another ballot drop site designated by your County Auditor. If your county has poll sites open on Election Day, you may return your mail ballot to a poll site. Please do not allow anyone, other than someone you trust, to deliver your ballot for you. If you need assistance, please contact your County Auditor’s Office.

How much postage is required to mail my ballot back?
Most mail ballots are designed to only require a standard first class stamp. If the returning materials are expected to need extra postage, your County Auditor will indicate so in the instructions accompanying the ballot.

If I recall correctly...from our location, we have to drive either 28 miles round trip...or 14 miles round trip...in order to drop them off...in other words to either of the little towns next to us..but nowhere local...so I make a 6 mile round trip to the PO...and spend the money to mail them...but it does piss me off that postage is NOT paid..if my congressman can mail me a letter, postage paid...then why can't I vote for him, postage paid???wb

Before mail-in. I drive and drop the ballot off now.

Gads. You're seriously complaining about this? Of everything going on, this is really important to you?

:banghead:

I was TOLD I HAD TO vote absentee, whether or NOT I wanted to, which I didn't particularly agree with, and still don't....I trusted going to the voting booth a hell of a lot more than I trust the US Mail...(especially when everyone in the county(who remembers to do so) is mailing ballots at the same time)....I used to drive 6 miles round trip to the voting booth...which was fine, and I did it willingly...NOW, I have NO CHOICE...if I want to drive my ballot to a live drop off point to make sure it's counted, not lost/misplaced, or just simply gets where it's supposed to go...I either have to drive 28 miles...or 14 miles....since the PO is still the 6 mile trip(polling venue used to be around the corner from PO)..so now I pay to drive, AND to vote...IF there are others, like yourself, that it's more convenient for...then I am happy for you...but that isn't the case with everyone...You may even like absentee ballot voting...I don't..I was far more motivated to vote, when I had to physically go, sign in...talk to live poll voters, and get my sticker afterward, that said "I voted"...IT WAS a pride kinda thing...now it's kinda like, who cares...it's a mental thing, I know...but I am very sure, I am not the only one who feels this disenchantment with voting absentee...I wonder how many actually DON'T even bother to vote any longer???

We happen to live in an area where they don't deliver mail in town, everyone has a PO box....so IF a person can walk to the PO, like they used to be able to do the polling venue...it shouldn't cost them a damned thing to drop that ballot/vote into the mailbox...period...WHY should they have to PAY to vote???and that IS what it comes down too...not only that, they mail the damned ballots out about 2 weeks ahead of time...now true, I still have enough presence of mind, not to lose our ballots...BUT...I wonder how many older people who lose track of time, or get sidetracked easily, have kids who are curious...or dogs that eat things, totally misplace or lose those ballots before voting day???(how could you ever get them replaced in time?) OH, I know...for some of us, those situations never happen...but for others, the reality is...THEY DO...and every one of those possible to lose ballots...is also a possibly lost vote..

Obviously, you like absentee ballots...I hate them, and I even hate the thought of them, because of how many ways it is to disenfranchise voters with their use(the money charged to mail the ballot is just one part of it)...however, it's ok, if we don't agree...I don't mind...but anyone who has to MAIL a ballot...is STILL being CHARGED A FEE to VOTE....wb

ps: by the way, I will always go the "extra mile" to vote as long as I am physically/mentally able, and can afford 4 stamps....so to answer your question.... with everything else going on, NO this is NOT of the utmost importance to me(was it really necessary to personally attack?) After all, I fell into line quite nicely, along with the other sheep, once someone else determined that we WOULD vote absentee, ALL THE TIME...BUT...I also believe that the stamps($) required to mail ballots is NOT the all important issue here..the problems 100% absentee ballot voting, creates, is much larger than that..

These ballots get sent back to the voter, and in some cases, it is too late to remail them! Most folks cannot drive to the county seat with their returned ballots to make sure their votes count!

I agree that this is a poll tax, and that ballots ought not to require postage. Congress, make this the law of the land!

The Ballot is SIZED on purpose to require more than the standard First Class Postage. Most people still do not know about size affecting the cost of mailing First Class material.

http://www.mediareplication.com/techlib-united-states-postal-service-regulation.shtml

Got it? Plain & Simple, huh? :sarcasm:

Unreimbursed time off to go vote, another poll tax?

Others carpool. But the cost of gasoline itself is not a poll tax, ie money paid to the government for the purpose of being allowed to vote. The question is whether postage on a mandatory mail-in ballot is a poll tax.

Last time I voted it was a four mile round trip.

But the cost of gasoline itself is not a poll tax, ie money paid to the government for the purpose of being allowed to vote. The question is whether postage on a mandatory mail-in ballot is a poll tax.

Since the postage is not money paid to the government for the purpose of being allowed to vote either, obviously it is not a poll tax.

Many people who vote absentee could walk to the polling place too. Or drive (or get a ride) to a registrar's office where their ballot can be dropped off for free (other than that gasoline expense).

and you are 100% correct...we are NOT being given a choice...good point..in order to exercise our right to vote, it HAS to be absentee ballot..that should mean postage free...wb

The one and only drop-off place in the county, 40 miles away? If 97 cents is a big stretch....

it sure is a foolish way for the county to save a few bucks.

Yes, of course the envelopes should be postpaid.

I'm not sure that's necessarily a good thing.

I'm willing to compete in that there "marketplace of ideas" the conservofascists claim we're all askairt of.