ANYONE BUT A DAMN REPUBLICAN ***

*** or any 3rd party candidate that could help elect a Republican

That's who I'm supporting in 2008

Gotta problem with that? I'm sure you do - go ahead - post your 82-pt list of why so-n-so shouldn't be elected as the democratic nominee. Guess what - whatever?

:grouphug:

You be the blue one and I'll be the green one, K?

PB

Someone wants to post about why their democrat candidate is the best choice or even compare their choice to the other candidates then I'm all for that discussion. But this negative crap has GOT to go.

Anyhow, I'm the green one - I'm always the green one.

PB

to use the sarcasm smiliey.

But there's no reason you can't be civil. And it's "so well", not "so good". :hi:

PB

is a crutch for those with enfeebled comprehension.

:evilgrin:

:yoiks:

is a crutch for those incapable of comprehending sarcasm... so backatcha, flame bait. :evilgrin:

That seems like an overly dramatic statement to me. What's wrong with urging people to support a Democrat in the next election?

:sarcasm: OK? See what you've driven me to do?

:evilgrin:

One would think that wouldn't be the case on a site titled "Democratic Underground."

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

1948: Henry Wallace/passed out leaflets for Harry Truman in general election

1952: Averill Harriman/walked precinct for Adlai Stevenson in general election

1956: Estes Kevauver/worked again for Adlai in general election

1960: Hubert Humphrey/was VP in a Youth for Kennedy club. voted for Jack Kennedy in general election

1964: Lyndon Johnson/Lyndon Johnson

1968: Gene McCarthy/Hubert Humphrey

1972: George McGovern/George McGovern

1976: George McGovern/Jimmy Carter

1980: Jimmy Carter/Jimmy Carter

1984: Jesse Jackson/Mondale

1988: Jesse Jackson/Dukakis

1992: Tom Harkin/Bill Clinton

1996: Bill Clinton/Bill Clinton

2000: Al Gore/Al Gore

2004: John Edwards/John Kerry

So you see I've had a mixture of luck when it came to my guy getting the nomination, but I always supported my party's nominee. You do that to or
you're not a real Democrat.

or locked out completely.

At least I feel better - I think alot of DUers feel the same way I do but are being intimidated by all this negativity here in GDP/GD. I'm gonna change that!

:grouphug:

You can be any color you want, I'll be the one next to you!

PB

What I don't respect are these 'Let's bash the bejesus out of the democrat candidate we're not supporting' and ESPECIALLY the anti-Hillary rhetoric - it's all total bullshit.

I'm not asking anyone to support all the candidate or even just Hillary. I'm asking that we stop clawing away at each other with all this negativity. And since this "Please, try to post nice positive threads about the candidate" posts tend to sink faster than the titanic, I'm simply doing it an attention getting way so that all of us tired of the hatred in GD/GDP can realize they are not alone.

Your attempts at a kum-ba-ya moment are sweet but inappropriate at this moment

loyalty oaths, etc etc etc You can't win Lynne. the circular firing squad mudt not be denied ask Phil Angelides.
I support the winner, and it's much too early. I am sick of the "new politics" folks and their trash mouth, That is soooooo tired.

:dem:
We need to simply start ignoring them.
They are mere puppets for the GOP!

"Only" 40 recommendations. :7

BRAVO!!!

"To hell with Clinton and her supporters."

Well since I'm already in hell, a Bush/Cheney hell created with the help of the "pure Democrats" amongst us, I've decided to stay right here in hell with Hillary thank you very much.

:kick:

if doing so wouldn't help elect a Republican?

but then again Perot did help get a Bush out of a White House

Sorry, I don't think the Clintons have served us well the last six years. I want somebody new.

So I'm guessing the DLC was ok with Kerry but not ok with Hillary

(note to the sane people of DU - I was a Dean supporter in 2004 who was behind Kerry 110% when he got the nomination. I'm just supporting the irony that wyldwolf has so clearly pointed out. Anyone who supported Kerry but can't stand Hillary are the biggest hypocrites out there!)

So fucking what.

what comes out of her mouth, what the policies have been the last six years, and how they have not been beneficial for Democrats.

back on ignore for you.

:rofl:

:loveya:

:evilgrin: :toast:

and was reading this thread but I wasn't signed in and went, wait, why the HECK am I reading this divisive users comments - signed in quickly! haha... that person's comments are really unhealthy, and admonishing him/her for it just never seemed to work.

From some of the responses to that user's posts in this thread, I'm glad he's on that list so I don't have to read the obnoxious tripe.

that's OK, your right. But why do you have to be so abnoxious??? What has your answer to do with the post you are replying to? Nothing whatsoever! I sometimes wonder if you really are a Hillary supporter, your words and attitude here are alienating, divisive, and often just plain disgusting.

A huge Hillary supporter who uses repug talking points, who woulda thought?

on what Hillary's critics are objecting too. Mostly I see vague generalities like "She's a corporatist." The only basis I've seen for that yet is that Bill passed NAFTA. That doesn't mean he or she is a corporatist. Lots of Democrats are free traders. What's Hillary's record, good and bad?

I don't know exactly what the DLC part is either.

she doesn't win the primary. If she does, I'll vote for her, and try my best to get everyone I know to vote for her.

My fear, and it is a very real one, is how hated she is by the repuke party. She will get-the-vote out for them like no one else would, not even a decent repuke candidate. She is as hated by them as bushshit is hated by us, although it is not deserved in her case. It's unfortunate, but it's also true.

She will need every single dem vote, and then some, to win. The other two "front-runners" have far more crossover potential. And I don't see her having great potential to excite the dem voters to get out and vote for her, either - certainly not anyone I know.

IMO we cannot afford to lose the next election, and Hillary is far from our best chance to win it. I have no doubt that she would be a capable president, and I like the idea of Bill being back in the WH, but still, she is my least favorite of the "front-runners", I believe the repugs are pushing her on us, really, because I don't see one thing she's done to become THE front runner. But, if you repeat something often enough, people begin to believe it's true.

Some of the people who don't want Hillary to win the primary aren't "Hillary critics" at all, just realists. Since the repug candidates are so pitiful, they might just stay home on election day, but not if Hillary is the dem candidate.

That's my specific - I want someone who can win the election, and also, someone who can bring the country together. Even if Hillary somehow beat the odds and won, I think it would be a huge fight for her to accomplish anything at all, and the country would stay as divided as it is.

I've heard the opposite

In other words, pretty meaningless, given how much at odds Howard Dean is now with the DLC, and how that has translated into his success recently too when the party is becoming more wise to the divisiveness of the DLC in its ranks. Read more here folks to get a real picture of a history of the DLC. Though two years old, it is still pretty on the mark.

http://www.commondreams.org/views05/0304-27.htm

And if you look at John Kerry's voting record and compare it to the rest of the DLC members' records, it was the most liberal of all of them. The problem for the DLC these days is that in order for it to succeed, it has to operate more in stealth than having its people be outwardly honest about their ties to it. Translated, that means that it cares more about providing an avenue for corporate America to keep its influence over elected power brokers, even if done in private, than to be purely an organization of "centrist" politics that might in other times have been used as drawing card to the electorate. Americans are fed up with that message, and are even more fed up if they hear that money as influence is all that an organization like the DLC is about. They want corporate and special interest money OUT of our political system. It IS the cancer (whether for mainstream Republicans or DLC Democrats) that is killing our country now! More and more people are becoming aware of this, despite the corporate media's efforts to stifle that knowledge.

in the general election and support Hillary in the primary.

And if Hillary should get the nomination I will support her in the general, despite not supporting her in the primary.

But in 12 I will be somewhere else, because I will no longer support a party that will not support me. And after another 4 years of republican 'leadership' I won't be alone.

If she was so concerned about bad candidates, she'd been rid of Kerry after he lost.

The right wing media and other Republican propaganda mouth pieces have convinced the American public that * actually won but the evidence is overwhelming that the election was stolen........ If John Kerry should enter this Presidential race he would have other candidates scrambling to figure out how that could even compete....Lets face it...had the tables been turned and the Democrats would have had their version of a Karl Rove,a corrupt Sec. of State and the Repukes would have had an election stolen.....we would still be without a President 3 years later because Rpukes would have the process tied up in legal maneuvers.....So I hate it when I hear or read the words "John Kerry lost".....he didnt lose..In fact the entire country lost the day they were able to get away with the election grand theft.

Absolute reversal. The DLC is MUCH more fond of Hillary than they ever were of Kerry. Ideologically Kerry doesn't match their positions very well at all. Far too liberal.

thanks

Damn straight.

Will you stop this now?

PB

seems you are the only bothered with the concept that many DUers here support the democrat party.

God forbid we do something crazy like that

support the Democratic party?

bad mouthing is another!
:dem:

I am not sure most will understand. H2OMan's made a few attempts at this this week already too...

K & R for more posts discussing how to get a DEMOCRAT in the WH in 2008.

just that we need to find a more positive and constructive way to do it.

And it's a rallying call to all the people frustrated at the anti-clinton bashing. Mind you, I'm not trying to get the anti-clinton people to change their minds. But I think that many of the "I'm voting 110% democrat" are getting frustrated like they are not welcomed to the political discussion.

does not own the party.

very yellow dog

Thanks, LynneSin

You know, fuck that. He is NOT. Hillary is NOT either. I'm not saying I want either one to be president necessarily but there's a lot of reasons to respect both of them, this is DEMOCRATIC underground and I try not to go out of my way to show disrespect to any of our candidates, even though I'm voting for Edwards in the primary, is it going to to get him any votes if I go negative on the Clintons?

I LIKE THE CLINTONS! SUE ME!

<<<sigh>>>

It's like we eat our own

and won in a landslide :sarcasm:

You know, the one where you claim Dean or Clark would have been much better nominees. That way, you can never be wrong when you post ignorant BS.

Ignorant? How is it ignorant?

Speculative and unproveable? Yeah. By the transitive law since Kerry beat Dean in the primary Dean would not have done any better. However, we do not know if some people, maybe 10 or 15%, actually preferred Dean, but decided to vote for Kerry in the primary because they thought he was more electable. Turns out though, that he did worse than Gore, and this was after 4 years of really bad governing. Dean might have lost or had it stolen from him too, but at least he would not say during the campaign "even if I knew then what I know now, I would still have voted for the IWR". The 'electable' guy was, when all was said and done, not that electable. Dean, I speculate, would not have done any worse. In fact, it seems like he may have had something to do with our victory in 2006.

And they weren't held by more than 50% of the U.S. at the time of the election. Sure, Bush's approval rating was about 48%, but his disapproval rating didn't crack 50%. So while he wasn't the strongest incumbent in history, he sure wasn't the weakest.

On the other side of things, Kerry got more votes than any other Democrat in history, and he lost by only about 70k votes in Ohio, a state most definitely impacted by the presence of the anti-gay marriage amendment being on the ballot. Had that not been there, most indications from other state data suggest that conservative voter turnout would have been depressed, meaning Kerry might have pulled off the win.

Now, I can't prove that definitively, but there's enough data available to make a reasonable assertion. All you've got is your own speculation. Was Kerry the mystical "Perfect Candidate"? Hell no, but those come around once a generation, and I can assure you that Howard Dean was NOT that guy.

Conversely, Dean was, and is, PERFECT for DNC Chair, pretty much for all of the same reasons he wasn't the perfect Presidential candidate - straight-shooting, overly enthusiastic, yet level-headed liberal.

Just because you don't like a candidate or they are too far over to the right or whatever does NOT make them complicit/same as BushCo! BushCo has no equal throughout the history of this country. It trivializes their crimes to compare them with the likes of Hillary; it flatters them.

I heard Ron Paul interviewed saying among other things that he doesn't believe the State should own public land, not even public beaches. He thinks beaches would be "cleaner" if they were all privately owned. What a nutbag!!! In CA that would make it impossible for 99% of the population to go to the beach. No legal abortion - most of what he says is from this very extremist libertarian ideology that is more dangerous than Banana Republicanism.

His wacked-out no brainer ideology just happens to lead him the right way on Iraq.....but just about everything else, he's NUTS!

and remember - Joe ain't a democrat anymore. He can suck face with all the repukes he likes

you'd be speaking out against similar threads against him, right? Where'd you stand on his candidacy during the primaries?

And if he decides to put the D back for a future race, you'll be the first supporting him? Or would his votes matter more than The Party in that case?

edit:

ah, never mind, I see you've a long history of supporting Lieberman here going back to before the primaries. "Think of the message we'll send to the world if we oust Joe Lieberman."

We're not even comparing apples vs. oranges here. We're trying to compare apples vs. rabid skunks or something bizarre like that.

First, I knew that Lieberman wasn't going to win the nomination. Anyone who claims he is going to get 'Joementum' by winning the state of Delaware pretty much is a longshot.

But if you'll sleep easier hearing this statement of a profound statement of something that probably will never happen but gee-golly I'll do my parrt to make lwfern feel smug - if Joe Lieberman had won the democratic nomination in 2004 I would have supported him 110%. I am a democrat - not a hypocrite.

Democrats who work to advance the Republican (Corporate) agenda aren't real Democrats.

So I agree with you. Lets work to get a "Democrat" elected.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

In many ways, I don't really much care who the Democratic nominee will be. I am not voting for any Republican for any office ever again anyway.

:kick: :yourock:

Honestly, I can't believe this thread got to 58 replies without anyone making that comment. :rofl:

dadgummit.

;)

that incLudes dinos too.

and a rec!

:kick:

word

I've been called a "lock-stepper" because no matter what, I'll vote for the Democratic nominee...

I totally agree with you: WHATEVER

I'm beginning to believe there are some among us who could use a rabies vaccine.

;)

it's the truth - I'll vote for anyone but a republican in 2008

nuff said!

I'm in total agreement. I think that the nastiness that was in the forums in 2003 and 2004 leading up to the election were bad enough--we really don't need a repeat of that now. It's one thing to "build up" your candidate of choice, but quite another entirely when you choose to tear down another candidate.

Forrest Gump said, "If you can't say anything nice about someone, don't say anything at all." I'd modify that slightly by changing "someone" to "a Democratic candidate" and leave the rest of it alone. Fact is, they're ALL Democrats, regardless of how far to the left they go--and we need to nurture a more inclusive stand before the elections in order to get a sweeping victory. If we let our own inter-party prejudices control our choices, we will be doomed to repeat the mistakes of 2004, when a single state and a couple of thousand votes made the decision for us. We know now that Ohio was rigged, and we know that there were crimes committed, but it's difficult enough when there is only one month between the elections and the deciding point for the electoral college. It therefore becomes vital to make the numbers so overhwhelming across the country that there is no arguing about who is the clear winner.

I've said it til I'm blue in the face as well--everyone is entitled to their opinion, but please show some solidarity by tearing down the REPUBLICANS, NOT the Democrats.

And while many despise the DLC and those who support it, we need to see ANYONE other than a Repuke in office, and if that means it is going to be someone who is in the DLC, then so be it. Regardless, it's better--and a brazillion times better--to see a DLCer instead of a repuke, don't you think?

I logged in just to rec'd this post, thank you!

I will vote for the Dem candidate in November 08. No matter who it is they will be a far better choice than whoever the Rethugs offer up.

Julie

I don't get it.
Democratic Underground, not Republican Underground or Third Party Underground.

However, I have noticed lately that it is turning into Politics Underground.

LoL

Check out post #39 in this thread.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3464229

The poster answers your question quite well. Some don't come here to hear the bashing, they come here just to bash Democrats. If Hillary was not the "front-runner" they would be bashing whomever the front-runner might be. Then there are the "sorelosermans" who can't accept the fact that their 3'rd party candidate was trounced both in '00 and '04 and is going to hopefully get trounced again in '08 by Madam Senator .

Error: You've already recommended that thread.

:)

:toast:

Well obviously this is the case.

But since the General election is quite a ways out shouldn't we try talking about who we really think is the best candidate?

I mean this kind of a post is obviously an answer (and a pretty absurd one) to all the anti-(candidate) posts we see occasionally, but what the heck else are we going to talk about as Democrats?

Other than fighting the bushies, encouraging our congressman to stand up to the bushies, and exposing the slimey stuff?

Honestly we are Democrats and we should be SERIOUSLY thinking about who the best candidates would be and what issues are most important to us and the nation at this time.

So please spare this nonsense.

Yeah!!!




TC

agree with LynneSin. It is exceedingly tiring to come to DU and to find all the vitriol against this or that DEMOCRATIC candidate. We are lucky to have a fine slate of DEMS running. I would be proud to work and vote for any of them. The bottom line is as LynneSin so clearly admonishes............NO MORE REPUBLICANS. And that means period....forever period. I am sick of their greedy and crooked ways, of their lies and sophistry and their rape of the earth and its people and its other creatures. The GOPers leaders, not only in DC but also in the states. have proved to be either totally stupid or just plain heartless. For just one paltry example, look back to Bill Frist, embarrassing the medical profession by claiming to evaluate the braindead Terry via video, without even considering the patient's elongated stay under medical care (hands on, personal care of on-site physicians) and of Jeb driving to replug her and W leaving his vacation to sign a stupid PUG pro-keep-Shaivo-on-the-tubes law, but was not in evidence days after Katrina flattened NOLA and its citizenry. These are repugnant politicians who even give that already depleted title a bad name.

Then it is win win! The GOP wins, and we get Hillary back in the White House! :woohoo: The GOP knows that they can't beat Hillary. Obey Hillary! GOP best obey!

Thanks, LynneSin! It needs to be said.

I'll repeat it even: ANYONE BUT A DAMN REPUBLICAN!

It has been horrible around here. I have no idea who I would vote for in the primary. But every time I mention or say anything positive about Clinton, I get my head ripped off. If I say anything positive about Obama, I get praise for being so wise. I have just been trying to get a feel for the candidates. DU is not the place to learn about the Dems in the primary. There are so many who get absolutely rabid about certain candidates, I have given up even mentioning anything. But, my candidate in the General Election will be the Dem who wins the nomination. Period. Happy to give the 58th Recommendation, LynneSin.

HERE, HERE !

He's our ONLY hope.

:P

:toast:

with you. We're ABRs!!! And I still think there is a hell of a lot sexism behind the hatred. Lots of boys enjoy hating women.

I can't believe this is what Clinton supporters have devolved into. You know damn well that many Democrats, men included, take vigorous heat and criticism on this fight. Clinton wants to be viewed as "Strong and tough", but whenever someone is mean to her they cry sexism.

I'll enjoy the day Clinton loses the primary almost as much as the day Obama is inaugurated as the next President.

you can't stand the idea of a woman ruling the US of A.

I am in the Kucinich camp knowing full well we don't have much of a chance. Obama is naive. I'm praying for a Gore run.

I rather fight with the repugnants. I'll be voting for the Dem on the ticket...whoever it is. But I gotta say Kucinich is making it interesting....the only one speaking the Truth.

And btw, you don't think women are 'strong and tough?' Only men can be that? Check your attitude...your sexism is showing.

Now run along.

So right now, what I want to know is whether you will support the eventual Democratic nominee if it's NOT Obama.

Yes or no.

If it's no, you might as well get the hell out right now, because THIS is the DEMOCRATIC UNDERGOUND, NOT (I repeat) NOT the Barack Obama Underground. It's just that simple.

Bake

My Anyone But Clinton thread got past 150 after only a couple of hours.

The members of DU have been heard: They don't want Hillary, and no partisan tactics of pretending that the general election was today will change that.

Thank you for playing.

I long for the days when threads could be rated on a "1-5" basis. I know how many stars this one would get from me.

At least I have the pride of knowing my thread was locked, so we'll never know just how many recs it could've gotten.

I'm tired of people who support the democratic party including Hillary Clinton made to be second class citizens here at a website that is specifically for all Democrats.

And who cares how many recommendations your thread got vs. mine. Hell if I want to bulk up to 150 messages I could easily get that done with one post in the DU lounge.

But then I remember that DU is such a small part of the Democratic party and that most Democrats I know in real life (and there are many of them) have nothing but positive things to say about Hillary. Four years ago I swore that Dean was going to get the nomination - but we tend to forget that there is this whole entire world out there that isn't a part of this online political culture - where they use internet for gaming, news, weather and downloading porn.

And I'm really glad. Can you imagine the planet...Free Republic?

Yikes!

:rofl:

DU doesn't 'speak,' just because 150 bridges become unoccupied.

Nobody BUT Hillary

Controversy often inspires attention.

Your post ended with alienating comments toward a whole group of people; not democratic and not an attitude that wins elections.

Is this all a game for recs at this point?
Seems shallow, at best. There are so many great posts on this forum that often receive little attention.
Recs rarely mean quality, unfortunately.

Peace.

I read this thread from the bottom up as I frequently do with the long ones.

Welcome to the trenches; I'm glad to see a truly independent thinker among the ranks! :toast:

And if he doesn't- well i'll give whomever wins the nomination of the party 200% AFTER the primaries.

All the other candidates have great assets. I have my favorites, but it ain't my place to bring down those who don't make my list of favorites.

I'm a "BIG D" Democrat.

ON EDIT: You rock LynneSin!

And so on.

Oh, K&R too.

Lynne is da bomb .... thanks for the pragmatism ....

Lyndon LaRouche has run for President as a Democrat seven times. Joe Lieberman was a Democrat (and technically, still is). Zell Miller was a Democrat. As was Strom Thurmond. The notion that anyone who runs as a Democrat is instantly immune to criticism is absurd. I know someone who ran for office in a notoriously corrupt Eastern city. She was a Democrat, but because the party in that city was completely machine-controlled, she ran as a Republican and won. I guess she'd be fair game to our criticism but LaRouche wouldn't? Absurd!

Voters define the direction for the leaders of the party. Not the other way around. We aren't supposed to march in lockstep behind the misguided ideas of leaders who carry our banner. Criticizing candidates who run contrary to our Democratic ideals isn't bashing. It's called being awake and engaged.

We don't need a man, or woman, on a white horse to lead us to the promised land. What we need is someone who is willing to walk at the front of OUR fucking parade. Let the fascists and authoritarians look for their leaders - I want someone who can listen to the people as WE take the lead.

WTF

Ideologies aside, we have gotta agree to disagree on our personal favorites, and look at the Big Picture.

The Reptilicans have got to go, and we have to be there for the Good Guys.. Lord knows, if we don't do so, things will go from bad to worst.

:dem:

I am relatively new to this forum in terms of posting.
I've been a visitor here for years -- but have never really posted until now.

After the loss in 2004, I've really found it difficult to talk about politics.
I have felt hopeless and I've been really discouraged by all of it, in general.

I can only say, from my perspective, that Hillary has given me hope again.
She is not perfect -- and she has a lot of public years in the eye of America and in the cross-hairs of Republicans.

But -- I look around in my life and I find it difficult to imagine any of the people around me, even those I admire, without flaws. I think it's unrealistic for us, in the Left, to believe that we can have a candidate that is purely leftist in a country as wide and diverse as the United States of America. As I look at those same people in my life, I also realize that it's just as absurd to imagine them agreeing with me on all topics. Is that what we want as liberals? A country with one mind?

I don't want everyone to stop making observations about Hillary -- or any candidate.
But it is unacceptable for people on this web site, with all their intelligence, to sink to levels I've seen over the last few weeks.

At the end of the day, I think Hillary is smart and tested.
Let's give this woman credit for the amazing things she's been able to accomplish as a woman in this country.

She wasn't just the nice cardboard first lady that America seems to always love; she was and is her own person and has established herself as a political winner, despite tough odds.

All of the hostility toward a Democratic woman, despite her flaws, is kind of surprising from this web site.

I hope the supporters of Hillary -- and there are many -- do not feel alienated by some of the absurd stretches found here. It would be a shame -- because I think we have a lot to contribute.

:hi:

:pals:

:D I can hear yo' cowbell from way over here. :hi: :D

Big bump up!

Got your point. Thanks.

:kick:

until then I'll let the primary season run its course and listen to what gets said by whom.
I won't show my cards until theres more money on the table.

note to candidates: lots of folks like me out here.... still can be reached

As soon as one steps forward and says:
He's going to end the war.
He's for a single payer national health care system.
He's going to protect individual rights.
He's for the separation of church and state.
He's supports a womans right to choose.
He's for shifting the tax burden from the poor and middle class and putting it on those most able to afford it.
He's for the environment and serious about reducing CO2.
He's for gay marriage.
He's going to reduce corporate influence on government.
He's for a higher minimum wage.
He's for the legalization of marijuana.
He's for rebuilding American infrastructure.
He believes in science and evolution.
He believes America is a secular country where one religion is not dominant over any other religion or atheism.

I can't support a Democrat who backs Republican princ... Sorry, I gagged at the oxymoron of "republican principles".

Would have to take deeper cover than the villain in a Robert Ludlum novel.

I'm personally undecided about a candidate, but I'll be voting/working for the Dem no matter what.

bump up.

:kick: A big kick for the Democratic party and the candidate that ends up with the nomination -- whoever it might be!

If you like Bush, you'll love Romney.

shame about that self-esteem problem you have

...suppose giuliani (for example) switched parties, ran as a democrat and won the primary. would you vote for him?

What if the moon was made of cream cheese
What if Playboy called me tomorrow and asked me to be next month's centerfold

Yeah - I could go on all day with questions of things that you know would never happen in a million years.

You just answered your own question

Cowbell and all <smile>. And Senator Clinton is going to make a Great President.

...which is: it doesn't matter what letter follows your name.

also, your opinion on what might or might not happen is just that.

i'll give you another example: bloomberg. what if bloomberg switched BACK to being a dem. would you vote for him? jim jeffords left the repubs. what if he went dem instead of indy? what if snowe switched? or chaffee? it's not as far-fetched as you're trying to make it sound and that weakens your argument.

i'm telling you it doesn't matter what letter follows the name. i'm exhausted with the "lesser of two evils" strategy. the dems have failed. party credentials mean less than zero to me.

so go ahead, go on all day.

Ok, let's just say that Guiliani does switch to the democratic party - he'd have to somehow convince the majority of democrats to vote for him over the other choices available.

And here's a second point - why did Guiliani switch? The guy has had a history of being pro-gay and pro-choice background. Perhaps he's had a revelation that the democratic way is the best way to go. If Guiliani turned out to be the best democratic candidate then sure, I'd vote for him.

15 years ago if you asked if I would ever buy a book from David "A little bit nutty, a little bit slutty" Brock (that's what he wrote about Anita Hill in the biography he wrote about her) I'd say you're damn nuts. He's another right-wing shrill out to make a quick buck by publishing bullshit articles about Bill Clinton (brock wrote about the 'troopergate' scandel) and other prominent democrats at the time.

Move forward to today and I can say that I own most of David Brock's recent publishings and I'm a regular reader of his website.

But then again you only need to read his "Blinded by the Right" to realize that people change.

...WITHOUT A PROBLEM! that alone should convince you of the uselessness of the letter after the name and the porousness of the membrane that separates the "moderates" on either side of the aisle, the so-called "electables".

when the democratic party is all about progressiveness THEN i'll promise to vote for whichever dem wins the primary. the fact that anyone in the democratic party could prefer clinton over kucinich is why i'm a dino.

and switched Republican because the democratic field was overwhelmed with candidates. And yes, even though Giuliani was mayor for 2 years, overall NYC is a heavily democratic region.

Next stupid question please

...to independent. it's a pretty crowded field of democrats, no?

and new york city is more heavily democratic than upstate and why do you think giuliani is in the race, if not to counter hillary in nys and put nys in something resembling contention. they're going after california with election system manipulation and after nys with giuliani.

nyc has had many republican mayors. so much for the value of being heavily democratic.

and please watch the pejoratives. i think your thread is pretty stupid, too.

What I think is stupid is these anti-HRC people coming in here and making everyone else feel like shit if they don't badmouth Hillary Clinton. All I'm doing is returning the favor.

You don't like my posts - hit the ignore button.

...are two different things. i'll post where the hell i want. you started it but it doesn't belong to you. once you post it's fair game as long as we stay within the rules. i've seen lesser flame bait threads locked. consider yourself lucky. besides, how can you "return the favor" if you're not making someone uncomfortable, and how would you know that unless we post?

ignore is for cowards and people who can't or won't defend their point of view.

not because you think i should but because i've decided you're not worth any more effort (i.e., i think i've made my point to any objective reader), this will be my last post on "your" thread.

Seriously, I don't see what the two things (arguing about who we want or don't want to be the nominee and voting for the nominee) have to with each other.

We're all going to vote against the horrific Republican candidate. It might not matter because of the cheating that will still be allowed, but we will. The new President will inherit all the new power Cheney stole, and until the courts take it away again, the next President will be able to do either a lot to fix what has been broken or make things even worse.

If we present it in those terms to voters, we can get a margin they can't steal away no matter who the candidate is.


And, just for the record, Mike Gravel is great. He should get some sort of job in the new administration, if nothing else just for laughs.

Ha! Got you all beat!

:sarcasm:
:woohoo:

as in "anyone except a damned Republican"

(..and now the grammar police are off to get some donuts)

The grammar police should not be given even a coffee break until
they stop people from consistently using an apostrophe to make
a plural.

IMO, a vote for anyone else is a vote for the republican candidate.

And, this time, it's oh, so true! I have tried to see it any other way.
I just don't, this time.

The exact words I said to my republican brother when he said - "oh I guess you want HILLARY in the White House" -

followed by this, "Yes, I would love to see a woman (Hillary) or a minority (Obama) in the White House. I honestly think old white men have had their "turn" long enough and it's about damn time that the "taboo" was broken - and both Hillary and Obama at least have a CHANCE for the first time in this Country - for which I'm pretty damn happy about; but you better believe I will happily and gladly support Edwards, Gore, Clark - or any damn one else that's NOT a frickin' REPUBLICAN. They've done ENOUGH damage to this Country in the last 8 years, thank you very much! So who are you voting for."

His reply: "Mmmumble mmumble mmumble. All politicians suck anymore."

I think your brother needs some remedial help before his next shot at passing the TOEFL.

were supposed to be in this forum anyway, not sure why they always spring up in GD

But yours is a good reminder of what is really important.

Death---->> <<---- My Candidate

Among his good qualities

1) He is not a corporate stooge
2) He didn't vote for the IWR
3) He's not a centrist seeking "unity" at the expense of doing the right thing
4) He has a message of hope and peace.
5) He is brave enough not to be frightened of second and third world countries who would never in a million years declare a first strike against us.
6) He believes in accountability.
7) He is a good person

Dennis Kucinich is everything the current front runners are not (some less than others).

Yes, ANYONE who IS a democrat. I'm with you all the way. I would be happy with Gravel or Biden if it came to that. Our candidates are outstanding in every way shape and form. ALL of the rethugs are misanthropic POS sorry excuses for human beings.
:-)

No way I'd vote for Ron Paul.

But if he wants to go 3rd party and siphon off republican votes then who would I complain

siphon off. Especially if the Democratic nominee is Hillary Clinton.

I've never voted for a Republican, he would be my first ever.

but I do know of republicans who see him as a jump back to the old republican party that was about less government and lower taxes. When the republicans truly were conservative. I think he could siphon off many of the republicans who are disillusioned with what's happening in DC now.

and you'll see how much the rabid dogs of the hard right, I mean the Republican Base, hate him. And he is unambiguously against the war, and says clearly every time you ask him that he'll bring the troops home quickly. Hillary hasn't said anything like that. He pulls the antiwar base away from the Dems, and we're a minority party.

I saw a couple of Ron Paul bumperstickers in my neighborhood, which kinda shocked me. My area is so liberal we're the only district in the country that gave Al Sharpton a delgate

I'm coming from a pretty liberal background, and I like Ron Paul a lot. His policy of non-intervention abroad (when our history of the past sixty years shows we are inept at it) makes perfect sense to me. Do I disagree with a lot of his positions? Sure. But right now the war is putting us into moral, financial, spiritual and psychological bankruptcy. I'll vote for anyone willing to stop it, and sort out the domestic ramifications later.

Here's betting you have no clue what you're talking about. No Democrat in their right mind could ever vote for Ron Paul. He would end every social program we have.