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elizm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:02 PM
Original message
The Battle for the Soul of the Democratic Party
Isn't this also what is happening here on DU?

Bloggers and Billionaires, MoveOn and Howard Dean: The Battle for the Soul of the Democratic Party

By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted August 21, 2007.

Matt Bai's new book, The Argument, pits Washington insiders against the progressive rebellion for control of the Democratic Party, but he's spent too much time inside the Beltway to get the story right. Tools

As anyone who follows politics knows, there's been a revolt against the "old" Democratic Party represented by Clinton insiders and an array of powerful political consultants, pollsters, and gate keepers.

Frustrated by Clintonian triangulation, two losses to George Bush in elections that were widely perceived to be stolen or given away too easily, and enraged by the party leadership's support of the invasion of Iraq, outsiders have risen up in an attempt to displace the insiders and their losing ways and bring more progressive values and vision to the political process.

More here...
http://www.alternet.org/stories/60305/
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
1. Isn't this also what is happening here on DU? YES witness the "But we can't impeach" trolls.
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 03:10 PM by Vincardog
I have spent too much time fighting a corrupt Democratic party to believe everyone calling themselves Democratic agrees with me on the true Progressive Populist objectives of the Democratic Party.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. They aren't "trolls" just because they disagree with you
.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. They are trolls when their MO is to constantly and continually post the same tired talking points
and they refuse to respond to substantive points.
When they respond to logical argument with name calling and personal attacks.
I never said everyone who disagrees with me is a troll.

That was your implication.

That is something else trolls do,
they put their words into your mouth and demand that you defend those words.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. If they are trolls by DU standards, they will be deleted and banned
All they're doing is disagreeing with you.

Most of the reasons on both sides have been stated, and are therefore both pretty tired.

Yes, that was my implication, because that was my opinion. I don't cotton to the tendancy of people to insult those they disagree with, on BOTH sides of the issue.

One should be able to express a civil opinion without insult. And yes, I've taken the same position when it was the Democratic Party being criticized.

Your implication is that I am a troll. So get me deleted if I am. If I remain, I must not be, at least in the eyes of DU.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. I never said you should be deleted. You are the one asserting these things.
How do you know the posters I am referring to only characteristic is that they disagree with me?

Have I called you and names?

What insult have I offered you?

My implication is that if you act like a troll you probably are.

The question then becomes

Are you going to act like a troll?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. You said that my reply was "one of the tricks trolls use"
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 03:56 PM by LittleClarkie
by implication, that would be calling me a troll. Not by DU standards, mind you, but perhaps by yours.

Do the people you're talking about get deleted when they insult others? Do you alert on them?
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. PArdon me. When did I say 'Your reply was "one of the tricks trolls use"?'
ME thinks ye protest too much.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. So do you alert and/or see these people get deleted for their insults or not?
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 04:05 PM by LittleClarkie
that's generally what one does when one thinks one is confronted with a troll.

Oh, and reply 4.
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Vincardog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Yes I have and Yes they have. I believe I said
"They are trolls when their MO is to constantly and continually post the same tired talking points "

Where do you see yourself in that?
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hfojvt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. but you misquoted him/her
"That is something else trolls do,
they put their words into your mouth and demand that you defend those words."

Meaning the same thing as what you said, but not the exact words. So he/she quibbled. Which is something that people who would rather argue and score points, rather than discuss, do.

But you cannot take my word for it. Even though I am an elected Democrat, I probably am on some short lists of 'most likely to be a troll'.

I probably quibble alot too, because it often seems that people are deliberately misunderstanding me.
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:12 PM
Response to Original message
2. Good article -
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=103&topic_id=302832&mesg_id=302832
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
9. More like "The Battle for the Soul of the Democraticunderground."
What's happening in the real world of electoral Democratic politics doesn't resemble netroots battles at all.
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flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Then why spend your time here with the "netroots," wyldwolf.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:56 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
flpoljunkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Weak!
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