Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

MyDD: "Is Clinton Really Ahead in Iowa?"...sure looks like it

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:26 PM
Original message
MyDD: "Is Clinton Really Ahead in Iowa?"...sure looks like it


Is Clinton Really Ahead In Iowa?

by Todd Beeton, Tue Aug 21, 2007 at 07:56:48 PM EST

August May
Hillary Clinton 30 24
John Edwards 23 26
Barack Obama 19 22
Bill Richardson 10 6
Joe Biden 3 4
Others 2 2
Not Sure 13 16

Now, Iowa is notoriously hard to poll, so what significance does this poll have if any? Well, for one, the trendlines are excellent for Clinton. Not only does Hillary achieve 9 point swings over Edwards and Obama since the May Zogby poll, but Pollster's average currently has Clinton slightly ahead of Edwards 26.8 to 25.4 and her trendline is up while Obama's and Edwards's are down. In addition, looking more closely at Pollster, this is the first non-ARG poll to have Clinton at 30 or higher and the first non-ARG poll to have her in the lead since May.



This moves the six-poll simple mean in the state to Clinton 26.2%, Edwards 24.8%, Obama 19.5%, and Richardson 11.2%. If the two "tighter screens," from the University of Iowa and ABC News / WaPo are included in the average, it slightly shifts to Edwards 25.7%, Clinton 25.3%, Obama 19.2%, Richardson 11.7%. So, no matter which way you look at it, Clinton is making up ground on Edwards in Iowa, and right now is at least in a statistical tie with him in the state.


Another reason this poll is notable: it's the first poll of Iowa Democrats since both Obama and Clinton have gone up on the air in Iowa. Check both ads out below.

If the new Zogby poll does signal a real shift in sentiment among Iowa Democrats toward Clinton, it would seem to be fair to say that it's at least in part due to the effectiveness of Clinton's ad. And if we accept this premise, looking at the two ads might give us a clue as to why, according to Pollster, Clinton is rising while Obama is falling.

I personally think Obama's ad is quite moving and is an excellent intro ad for him (something Clinton has the luxury of not needing) as it accentuates his experience and makes him look presidential. Frankly I would have thought it would drive his numbers up although it is more of a general election ad than a primary campaign ad. But what it also does is call for unity while Clinton's ad picks a fight with Bush, which is an essential difference in the styles of the two campaigns. If Obama doesn't win the nomination I think it will be due in part to something I've been sensing about the Democratic electorate. No matter how many people might say they are sick of partisan bickering, you gotta think that after impeachment, after the 2000 election debacle, after the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq, after John Kerry was swiftboated and after almost 7 years of this disaster of a president, the last thing Democrats want is to unite with Republicans. Did you notice how many Republicans who had previously enabled the partisan and divisive Bush administration and re-election were suddenly calling on the Democrats to unite the country after the November elections? Why didn't they hold their own party to the same standard? Why don't they expect the same of Bush? David Brooks has repeatedly attributed Obama's phenomenal fundraising and the crowds he draws to the general mood in the country that people do want to "turn the page," as Obama would say, and heal after 8 years of division. And if that's really the case, Obama will likely win the nomination. But are Democrats really in a forgive and forget place right now or do they really just want to go to battle and win?


http://www.mydd.com/
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:31 PM
Response to Original message
1. Obviously Edwards is not worried about Iowa. Both measures show a JE/HRC dead heat with BO falling
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 09:35 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
==This moves the six-poll simple mean in the state to Clinton 26.2%, Edwards 24.8%, Obama 19.5%, and Richardson 11.2%. If the two "tighter screens," from the University of Iowa and ABC News / WaPo are included in the average, it slightly shifts to Edwards 25.7%, Clinton 25.3%, Obama 19.2%, Richardson 11.7%.==

Of the top 5 in Iowa he is the only one who has not run ads yet. However, he has run ads in NH. Either Edwards' internal polling shows him ahead or they are assuming that once they run ads they can build up a semi-comfortable lead and are focusing on NH right now.

As to whether HRC is gaining ground in Iowa she has since Vilsack, who was running 3rd in IA, dropped out. It seems the lion's share of Vilsack's supporter went to HRC, which is not surprising since he endorsed her. I think there is too much hype about HRC's rise in Iowa. She and Edwards have been going back and forth in Iowa since the spring. Where she has made great strides is in the national polls.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Hillary doesn't really need to win Iowa...
She has to be a close second however

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
draft_mario_cuomo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I agree but I also reject the conventional wisdom that Edwards must win Iowa
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 09:41 PM by draft_mario_cuomo
If Clinton wins, Edwards finishes a close 2nd, and Obama a distant 3rd Edwards may be the best positioned to become the alternative to HRC. If Obama finishes 4th, then Edwards will be the odds on favorite to become the alternative to HRC. Nevada will play a big role and momentum from Iowa will influence it. Nevada and Iowa will then, in turn, influence NH. Here is a scenario by which Edwards could lose Iowa and emerge as the alternative to HRC, which is really the only goal everyone else has right now:

Iowa: Clinton, Edwards, Obama, Richardson
Nevada: Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, Obama
New Hampshire: Clinton, Edwards, Obama, Richardson

There are other scenarios as well. The key for Edwards if he loses Iowa is to finish a strong 2nd and have Obama finish a distant 3rd or even 4th--and then have a similarly poor finish in Nevada. Right now this is not exactly unlikely since Richardson is catching him in Iowa and he is apparently stagnating in Nevada while Edwards and Richardson are moving up there.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #5
11. Edwards doesn't have the warchest to be able to finish 2nd in Iowa, especially to HRC
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 11:40 PM by Hippo_Tron
If HRC wins Iowa, the whole thing is over no matter who comes in second, IMO. Now if Edwards comes in first, Obama in second, and HRC in third then we have a three way race on our hands. Edwards First, HRC Second, and Obama Third will likely set up a two way race between Edwards and HRC.

Also, nobody knows what expectations are going to be 5 months from now and that's almost as important as how the candidates actually place.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
13. He would need to follow the path you have laid if he did not win in IA.
Anything less than 2nd places finishes (if not wins) in NV & NH going into SC and he would be in serious trouble.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Iowa Democrats did such a wonderful job in 2004- choosing our candidate
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 09:43 PM by depakid
and ended up handing the election to Bush.

If you believe in cheap Zogby polls (LOL) it looks at this point like they're more than happy to do it again.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU9598 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. Thanks
And I remember our choice was quite close between Kerry and Edwards, but the rest of states decided the nominee very similarly to the Hawkeye state. I think the blame (IF ANY) in 2004 goes to Kerry's unwillingness to not clarify his military record compared to Bush ... not to Iowa democrats.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. Seems to me that Iowans rejected Dean and chose Kerry
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 11:30 PM by depakid
Partly due to the sort of provincial organization he had- and because of the archaic 19th Century process that is used (in the middle of the bloody winter).

I can think of few more dysfunctional ways to influence a national election in the 21st Century than that.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU9598 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-23-07 05:21 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Than what?
Democratic party members who are neighbors getting together in small groups of less than 100 to discuss the strenghts and weaknesses of candidates and then to select amongst those groups who they will support and which candidates will get delegates to the next level convention. You know, going into a private booth and spending five minutes (in the middle of winter) is such an EASIER and less time consuming method.

I like the caucuses for nominating a candidate. It is what a political party should be, not a nice, easy, thoughtless vote.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
journalist3072 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:32 PM
Response to Original message
2. Great news for Sen. Clinton! I truly believe that
Iowans, and all of America, is seeing her for the leader she is.

I remember the very uncomfortable feeling I had the evening of January 20, 2001. I felt my country was no longer is good, steadfast hands with George W. Bush as President.

If we are talking about President Hillary Clinton on January 20, 2009, I don't think I will have that same feeling.

She will do us proud.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Broke Dad Donating Member (345 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:40 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. Zogby is polling the wrong people in Iowa . . .
Hillary gets her ass kicked by Edwards when the polls contact Iowans who have actually gone to a caucus, not think they might.

The Peter D. Hart poll says:


Former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards has an eight-point edge in the Iowa Democratic race over closest rival Hillary Clinton, according to a new poll released by the ONE Campaign to Make Poverty History.

The poll, taken by 509 past Democratic caucus attendees or likely participants, has Edwards at 30 percent, followed by Clinton at 22. Barack Obama is third with 18 percent, Bill Richardson fourth at 13 percent, and Joe Biden fifth at 5 percent. Dennis Kucinich took 1 percent of the vote. Eleven percent remain undecided, with Chris Dodd and Mike Gravel receiving no votes.

The poll was conducted by Peter D. Hart Research Associates on August 2 and 3, with a margin of error of plus or minus 4.3 percent.

Nice try Elmer . . . Actually, with any luck Hillary will finish fourth in Iowa behind Edwards, Obama and Richardson.

As we say in Iowa, "Hillary Stay Home!"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
frazzled Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 10:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Peter D. Hart did that poll for a private, paying client ...
The "One" group on world poverty--and a bunch of Edwards-oriented poverty questions were asked before the primary preference was asked. That's kind of called push-polling.

The polls we are looking at here, Zogby, University of Iowa, WaPo, etc., were not commissioned by a client--so they are a lot more to be trusted.

Nice try Elmer ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:41 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. I believe that with all my heart.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
12. Some major outlets in the "netroots" appear to be recognizing Hillary's strength.
A telling portion from the OP, and a swipe at Obama, was this:

If Obama doesn't win the nomination I think it will be due in part to something I've been sensing about the Democratic electorate. No matter how many people might say they are sick of partisan bickering, you gotta think that after impeachment, after the 2000 election debacle, after the disastrous invasion and occupation of Iraq, after John Kerry was swiftboated and after almost 7 years of this disaster of a president, the last thing Democrats want is to unite with Republicans... But are Democrats really in a forgive and forget place right now or do they really just want to go to battle and win?

This echoes what Jerome Armstrong wrote last week:

Clinton vs Obama in a nutshell: pragmatic partisanship that wins vs the hope for an idealistic bipartisan politics.

http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/19/143916/579

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
rinsd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-22-07 11:49 AM
Response to Original message
14. New poll has her ahead by 8 in SC.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Wed May 01st 2024, 10:01 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC