Hillary Decides to Skip Rogue States (Florida and Michigan)

September 2, 2007
Clinton, Obama and Edwards Join Pledge to Avoid Defiant States
By JEFF ZELENY
PORTSMOUTH, N.H., Sept. 1 — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton joined her Democratic presidential rivals on Saturday in pledging not to campaign in Florida, Michigan and other states trying to leapfrog the 2008 primary calendar, a move that solidified the importance of the opening contests of Iowa and New Hampshire.

Hours after Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina agreed to sign a loyalty pledge put forward by party officials in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, Mrs. Clinton followed suit. The decision seemed to dashed any hopes of the Clinton campaign relying on a strong showing in Florida as a springboard to the nomination.

“We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process,” Patti Solis Doyle, the campaign manager for Mrs. Clinton, said in a statement.

The pledge sought to preserve the status of traditional early-voting states and bring order to an unwieldy series of primaries that threatened to roil the selection process. It was designed to keep candidates from campaigning in Florida, where the primary is set for Jan. 29, and Michigan, which is trying to move its contest to Jan. 15.

more at...http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/us/politics/02dems.html?_r=1&ref=politics&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

this is a unanimous decision by the primary contendas!

Now where does that leave senator nelson-Fl?

:toast:

Then why bother to have a primary election in those two states?

Why pay the polling center workers, police, and other people?

Why hold a Primary at all, if no one is running there???

Not just Presidential? I don't know.

Florida has a ballot question about property tax at the same time, I believe.

I could get to like this...pull the state out of the primary season of madness, hold a caucus in the "permissible" window, no campaign appearances, maybe even no ads until after the convention....

Yeah, there's a silver lning to this cloud!


Afterthought: Will the GOP exert equal discipline, or will they fill up that blissful silence with their thundering campaigning?

im wondering.
if the dems did it to themselves then fair enough.
if floridas demon-spawned repug legislature forced it on them then i dont agree with punishing us florida dems even more.

im a florida democrat and i surely had no say in it and noone even asked my opinion but im going to be punished for it just the same.

Are the names of all Dem candidates on the Dem primary ballot? I'm sorry, I'm new here, I don't understand. If Hillary and almost all the others pull out, is there still a Dem Primary in FL?

Or is it all over?

the republicans schedules their primary on the same day and the RNC is only taking away half of florida's delegates so the republican primary on that date will be fiercely competetive.

Any delegates won in Florida before the Feb 5th primary will not be recognized or seated at the Democratic Convention in Denver. So all the delegates from florida will be worthless. There's really no incentive for anyone to campaign in anymore.

Skip the primaries and hold a Democrats-only caucus two weeks later, in the middle of the primary season... get lots of free news articles about putting it together........shoving a finger at the Republican-run legislature...and allowing all Florida's Dems to get a spotlight.

Hold local caucuses in 1000 places in Florida, linked on the internet with youtube, something totally 2008! Do something daring! Get Florida back into the 21'st century, and ignor the ugly Republican lawmakers who forced this early election on the Dems! Be DARING! Be BOLD! Be INNOVATIVE! Be UNIQUE!

And get some national press out of it!

Beauty contests are for teenagers, elections are for thinking and creative ADULTS!

Whether the votes 'count' or not, won't stop the media attention and won't stop the race from being turned into a horse race after the primaries.

Whoever wins Florida will be the presumtive nominee, no matter what the "rules" state, because most people in the country won't understand the situation anyway. Who wins "iowa" will become minor news, compared to who wins Florida and Iowa is really all about media attention and little more.

Whether the votes are counted at the convention or not, it takes Iowa's importance way down, as all they will do is pick "another" horse, instead of being the state that sets up the race.

What would be interesting is if Kucinich or Gravel put some effort into Florida and actually wind up winning Florida b/c of it. This would help shatter the national image of non electibility and would give either one much needed media attention and power going into the national primary day.

We are finally seeing the beginning of the end of this idiotic nominating process. Hopefully Michigan will move theirs as well, which could shake things up even more, since a candidate could get huge attention by winning there, whether the "delegates" count or not.

If Kucinich decides to campaign in Florida or Michigan now that everyone else has pledged not to, then he is just giving me one more reason to believe that he is a fraud and an attention seeker.

We demand he come to our state. We will certainly be filbustering for him. and organizing for him. We for one are sick and tired of New Hampshire thinking they should get special treatment. Michigan , the most labor of labor states. Kucinich dare not snub his. His message of stupid trade policies particularily need be heard there, of all places. Besides, we sent him our contributions and we better darn well see some results for our efforts. Or else all the candidates don't need come round here, sniffing for cash.

more about saving this country, then idiotic 'rules' which people don't REALLY care about anyway.

The Florida Democratic Party endorsed the legislation and almost voted unanimously with the Republicans.

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

And there is more. Florida could have had the delegates if they had fought the GOP about moving. Instead they worked with them, made fun of Dean and the DNC in the legislature.

It is Florida's fault. They voted for the rules. they broke them.

Smart Politics.

They would not have lost delegates if they had not broken the rules.

I am stunned at Granholm.

We are hurting bad out here--a lot of people actually blame Granholm and the dems for some of our problems as crazy as it sounds. Michigan is a poster child for the ills of NAFTA and globalization.

I'd love to see them try to disenfranchise Michigan. BRING IT ON!!

Besides, nobody gives a crap about Michigan anymore. If you're making money for the grand United States, you're a gem. If not, you're Louisiana.

And they can choose to remove even more.

NH, Nev, SC. All right to work states. I am sick and tired of thise right wing states getting a front row seat. Rarely do the go Democratic in November. Yet, they set the front runner. Want to pass up Michigan with its labor vote and Florida with its Jewish vote. Bed rock of the Democratic. than Hillary and the rest can just stay away from Michigan come the Fall. Maybe Michigan won't have a delegation to Denver. So be it. Might even end up helping the Republicans. Michigan, Florida unimportant now and the Dem's want to invest their time in Republican , right to work states; then just stay out of Michigan in the Fall.
Why is New Hampsire so crucial. I am sick of them being privileged.

Because they control it all here. And because the people of Florida are so easily taken in by party spin.

probably don't like the right-to-work laws any more than you do. But they will represent a cross-section of the nation (now with African Americans and Hispanics more involved with the addition of South Carolina and Nevada). The candidates will be able to visit them in a more personal way than they can realistically visit the rest of us. The interest of having the primary campaign there may bring more of them out to vote in November, if not to pick up electoral votes (although anything may be possible by next year) then to help our candidates farther down the ticket.

Chairman Dean may well win this battle, but there is going to be Hell to pay down the road. Chairman Dean could find himself at the receiving end of another "Night of the Long Knives." This bullshit with those ethanol peddlers in Iowa will come to a head, perhaps not this year or next, but most definitely before 2012.

I asked about this a few weeks ago. Back then it looked like this was going to work against whoever the Democratic nominee ultimately is. I still believe that - the Republicans are SOOO going to use this against us. BUT, it doesn't look like Howard Dean or any of the candidates had a choice. This was a lose-lose situation for Dems and I'm very worried about the general election.

The GOP is penalizing Florida and Wyoming (though not as severely as the DNC... yet) and will penalize Michigan too.

If they don't, Florida is theirs. If they do, I'm not sure what I'll do. I may vote Green ... or I may still take it out on the Dem candidate by voting GOP. If the Florida Dems cave, I'll vote straight ticket GOP.

In either case, the DNC, Hillary, and whoever the nominee ends up being ain't getting a dime or vote from me.

Voting for principle, or is it just a punishment?
Gosh, what principles except Fla delegate issue are you working for?

From a staunch Hillary supporter, to the point of rudeness - then to abandon and peel off immediately because of Dean?
Switching to Giuliani, no less!
Voting SELF interest only.
Gotcha.

Straight GOP ticket!
Well, or GREEN.
HIGH-larious.

And your sig "floridians 4 Dean in '08" means you are AGAINST Dean and DNC?
What a bag of contradictions!:wtf:

I think we are are starting to get a clearer picture, thanks to your honesty.
It is most revealing.
connecting the dots here...hmmmmm...
:think:

I'll be voting for Giuliani.

If the GOP is dumb enough to follow suit, they can all go to blazes.

Its an outrage how Dean and the candidates even DARES to stand by the rules that was agreed upon about a year ago or less, just who do they think they are to stand up against the mighty and most important state of Florida(and Michigan) :sarcasm:

While i can understand that Florida(and Michigan) dislikes the 4 states going first, the time to change those rules are when they are being set or when the rules are not in play. It is NOT in the middle of an election where almost all the states abide by the rules(trying to bully its way to the front of the line isn't what i'd see as very democratic)

She can forget about my vote and my money.

The theory seems to be that people are so fed up with Bush that we will support the DNC candidate no matter how they treat us. Good luck with that. The fact is that I am not in Iraq ... and I am not doing too bad now. I can survive another Republican administration.

The only chance the DNC candidate has now is if the RNC is dumb enough to follow suit.


trying to bully its way to the front of the line isn't what i'd see as very democratic

Yeah ... and that silly Rosa Parks should have just moved like she was told to. :eyes:

Some people are born to be slaves ... the rest of us kick.

Nice that you are doing well enough to survive another Repub administration.
And that you are not in Iraq.
After all, it is all about you and your principles on this issue.

I see your sigline has floridians for Dean '08, and wonder how that squares with the evils of DNC here.
With the interesting use of Rosa Parks analogy, those who abide by DNC rules are slaves.
And so, after being in the Hillary posse for some time here, this one thing makes you go to Ghouliani? Wow.

Sounds like you are quite the free person!

That's the way elections work buddy. That's why 90% of Americans say that Congress is full of crooks ... but keep sending their own crook back time and time again. And as for "principles" get back to me when you aren't supporting the screwing of my state.


I see your sigline has floridians for Dean '08, and wonder how that squares with the evils of DNC here.

It better square ... as the sig is the result of my anger at Dean and the DNC.


With the interesting use of Rosa Parks analogy, those who abide by DNC rules are slaves.

Are the DNC rules fair? Well there is your answer then, huh?


And so, after being in the Hillary posse for some time here, this one thing makes you go to Ghouliani? Wow.

This one thing? This one little thing? You mean being disenfranchised and dictated to by an unelected cabal? Is that all???

Bloody revolutions have started over less.

I appreciate your honesty as a Hillary supporter, with a 2nd choice being Guiliani. I don't get it, but at least you are open about it.

Democracy does NOT just depend on each person only voting their OWN interests. Freepers and Libertarians do this pretty commonly, but progressives often vote for greater good, or to address needs of people OTHER than themselves. This may not make me your Buddy. So be it.

I am not supporting the screwing of any state. I have stated no opinion on that, but the fact that you decided to vote Giuliani over this seems notable. Usually DUers don't much support such authoritarian Republicans. That is pretty extreme, it seems to me. Yes, that is about principles.

Maybe the rules are not fair - I agree that it could be far better, and have some ideas about that.
Changing rules through the process of elections in DNC would be one way to address the primary rules within the system. Deciding to violate the rules in this cycle or be "slaves" is an interesting way to frame this.

Yes, I understand disenfranchisement. No I don't like the solution, or several other things.
But I will not switch to a GOP fascist so readily - it may not be a big jump for you.

I think you should start posting pro-Rudy posts, supporting your new buddy.
It will be interesting to see how that works out!

BYE

It depends on each person having an equal opportunity to vote.


But I will not switch to a GOP fascist so readily - it may not be a big jump for you.

You're right ... it's not. I used to be one of those "facists" you speak of.

It's nice to see that the competition of ideas and dissent are held in such high regard around here. :eyes:

I have NO problem with competition of ideas or dissent either.
We just have different solutions, and I find your logic strange.

Either Green OR GOP instead of Hillary, because of a decision made by Dean/DNC.

There are two explanations for this logic, but I will leave it at that...

Backed Dean. They all voted to steal Florida's delegates.

Screw them all.


I have NO problem with competition of ideas or dissent either.

:eyes:

Thanks for "coming out" as a free person of strange logic and mixed philosophy.
A rebel with several and conflicting causes.

Maybe the greens will enjoy your pro-Rudy authoritarianism.

Maybe notify the Hillary supporters of your switch to Rudy.
They will appreciate the honesty.

Maybe the GOP will enjoy welcoming you back into their arms.
Their military arms.
Their petrochemical arms.
Their secret gulags and stress positions, and whatever creative ideas Rudy wants to come up with.
That'll teach that Dean a lesson, and all of his "slaves"!

:rofl:

I'm not buying it one little bit. This poster is a Republican all the way and too many people got mad at those of us who are legitimate supporters of HRC because of him.

When "supporters" get really rude to people, and it makes their candidate look bad by association, one should be skeptical.
This particular case is an obvious and rather clumsy one, and I was hoping you guys would pipe in if you knew anything.
Thanks for that. :hi:

Our candidates can stand on their own merits, and the DU shenanigans are too precious by half.

Go register republican. At least you get half your delegates then. Go campaign for Guiliani and stick around here bashing Dems. Like a previous poster said, i'm glad you're ok with 8 more years of war, out of control spending, and corporate welfare. That'll sure show howard dean, huh? Troll.

Actually it'll show you.

Discrimination has consequences.

INdiscrimination also has consequences.

You are now OUT of the CLOSET as a Giuliani supporter and anti-dem.
Not many Giuliani supportin' DUers around that I know of.
Much less "Former 'facists' (sic)" who might go green OR Giuliani.
Anywhere just away from dems.
you know, whatever is good for YOU.

So it goes.
May you get your wish.:bounce:

Or else it'll throw a tantrum? If these primaries keep being moved forward we're gonna be holding them in the november before the election.

This is the key point. I'm not going to get angry at Dean or anyone else at the DNC in particular over this mess.

I understand the two states should be penalized in some way, but not counting any delegates is extreme in my opinion.

It's an unfortunate situation regardless...but I think it's time to get beyond this historical obsession with Iowa and New Hampshire as having "first in the nation" status.

I don't like all the rules I'm subject to either, but as a mature person, I know I have to follow them even if I don't like them. And if I choose not to, I'm not going to moan about facing the consequences.

Shockingly enough ... no.

I'm rebel like that.

if there is a reason. We are talking about states of the union, not different races of people.

The reason that only 4 states can go first is to preserve the effectivenes retail politics, rather than deciding the nomination on how many 30 second ads you can buy. In fact it is LESS discriminatory this time, becuase there are two more states involved, Nevada and South Carolina, to bring more diversity to the early states.

What happened in Germany when the citizens were faced with all those rules the nazis imposed?

I take your hyperbole as both humorous and yet sincere as to the main issue.


Seriously, was there a vote on it at the DNC convention?
I missed it, but there might have been a debate on the floor at the convention.
Do you know, IG?

Anyone?
Was there a vote on primary rules last year?
Any links would be great, but i can try a google after dinner....

That didn't make every portion of it legitimate.

The amendment process is the fix for that, if I read you correctly - correct?
And by "legitimate" - do you mean "not legal" or immoral, or unjustifiable or other?

A passed and ratified law is by definition legitimate, no?
(Whether we agree with it or not is another matter.)

Because if the constitution,law of the land, is not legal, then what the heck - I am again confused by the logic here.


Now, these examples of constitution or Nazis, or Back of the bus, etc. are not very exact metaphors.
Perhaps we should not argue by metaphor at all.

Heck, I would rather hear possible solutions - ideally aimed at the core problems. This would only happen for future elections.
Also opoen to any solutions for the current impasse.

What is to stop ANY states from bolting ahead of the other in leapfrog chaos?
We could end up with all the primaries being last week! Oh no! ;)

Should ANY attempt at agreed upon rules be made? Just let everyone do whatever, whenever?

If polling places and dates are subject to short term changes, that will certainly confuse voters and suppress turn out.
Gee, only the GOP really wants THAT.

You know, back in the mid-late 19th Century.

wow you are easy to take seriously :eyes:

I guess now I'm justified in breaking any rule I don't like, cuz of the Nazis. Thanks very much.

Dean could have just let Michigan and Florida move up their primaries, just as California may do, and Iowa would still have their caucus shortly after New Year's with New Hampshire shortly afterwards.

As it is, Dean and his DNC honchos have pissed a lot of people in large states that we will need in 2008, and he has set the stage for a national TV showdown on the convention floor.

I also blame Dean for causing this problem in the first place. His much touted "compromise" still left Iowa and New Hampshire first.

We better have a rotating regional primary system by 2012, with no one going it alone first.

but if Florida can move up, then why can't everybody? Do you want a national primary in December? Do you understand why such rules exist?

Still, I am hoping we will have one primary date for all states next time.

As tempting as it is, and I've certainly been tempted, to have them all in one day, the practical result would to be to bar any but the most wealth-driven candidates from the process. If we want to preserve even the smallest opportunity for "Mr. or Ms. Smith" to go to Washington, we need to resist the urge for one primary date for all states without first laying the groundwork. We would need mandatory public campaign financing for all parties. We would need regulated and free and equal coverage for every single candidate. We would need the custom of buying local endorsements through campaign contracts stopped. We would need, in other words, to take the profit out of politics. Because the only thing that allows a second or third tier candidate to move anywhere near the realm of possibility - the only thing - is having small states first where up close, retail politics can take place and the public goes through a visible vetting process on the candidates.

What you would see in a one-day primary is total concentration by all candidates in the large states where the return is greater and where media markets are extremely costly media markets. Candidates would not have the time or the money or the stamina or the self-interest to bother running around the country meeting voters when they can get a larger return on TV. The lesser funded candidates, if they even wanted to tilt at windmills and entered the primary race at all, could not survive such a scenario. These elections are already too dominated by fat cats, but at least the candidates have to work for it, and there is always a possibility of an opening for movement, such as Richardson is squiggling through inch by inch. No chance for voters to think over or rethink their choices, also, which takes time between primaries for information and exposure to settle in.

Kerry in 2003, for example, didn't have the money he needed to go on. He mortgaged his house and laid it all on Iowa and he won and moved on from there. If he had to mortgage his house and bank it all on California or New York, he might have dropped out first, because he could have lost every cent without making the impact he needed or even much of a dent. I use Kerry as an example, I understand he is well off and his wife is very wealthy, but imagine if it were Joe Everyman or Josie Everywoman, what happens? They look at what it will take and see that there is no way in hell to get out there and have an affect on the race. No more Dennis Kucinich to influence the debate. Would we ever again have a Paul Wellstone? We sacrifice one of the last bastions of democracy, in fact, where citizens have some influence over the country's politics beyond individual votes.

The small states are a kind of insurance for democracy and now with South Carolina and Nevada, there is more diversity. It's not a perfect thing, but until we can work out the perfect thing, I hope we can resist this impulse. As I said, it's very tempting, but by next time? I doubt it. I hope not, unless we can get it done right in time.

Bring on the games. The system is idiotic.

To line my birdcage.

Many qualified candidates don't stand a chance the way things are. On another note, I personally don't rely on seeing a candidate in person to make my decision.There is plenty of detailed information on the internet to sift through. And, I'm not too concerned with the charisma factor, or whether I'd feel comfortable having a beer with a candidate - success in those areas hasn't necessarily resulted in the making of a good president. Also, have the visits really resulted in the US having a terrific voter turnout? We seem to have a pitiful turnout in primaries and the general election no matter what. Primary voting is so abysmal, I can only conclude that there is something horribly wrong. I don't know if it's the Electoral College, the early primaries and coverage, laziness, difficulty at the polls, voting on a workday or whatever.

You bring up many. Some will take laws and some in DNC. Some, like media coverage and laziness, are of course out of our control.

Public financing mitigates the big money candidate vs outsider candidates.
Modern media including internet have changed the NEED for some face to face, but many people still prefer that.

As to difficulty at the polls - that is a BIG one, spanning both fed, state laws and maybe DNC could help there.
Equal right to vote should mean similar wait times for rich and poor, GOP, dem, etc - and not the weird BS we have seen where votes get cast and counted in blatantly unfair ways.

Electoral College issues are a biggie, but little hope for changing that, as it requires Constitutional amendment.
Add Instant Runoff, and we have most of the issues covered.
Whew, that will be hard work!
:hi:

Kind of his a nice revolutionary ring to it...

Being a member of a loose coalition of rogue states does sound romantic. Like pirates. :)

that HRC is alone in doing this....Should have read, All major dem candidates to skip rouge states
Ben David

8/24 Florida Leaders Endorse Clinton

The Clinton Campaign today announced the endorsements of more than 40 Florida legislators and community leaders, demonstrating Hillary’s growing support in the Sunshine State.

"Hillary Clinton's deep understanding of the complex issues facing our nation at home and abroad make her uniquely qualified to be our next Commander in Chief," said State Representative Terry Fields of Duval County.

"Floridians are ready for change, and Hillary Clinton has the strength and experience to deliver it. She can make history and inspire a generation of women in the process," said State Senator and former Senate President Gwen Margolis of Miami-Dade County.

"I truly believe Hillary Clinton has the necessary experience, dedication and commitment to lead our country in the right direction," said State Representative Martin David Kiar of Broward County. "Senator Clinton understands the issues affecting Floridians, from establishing a national catastrophic insurance fund to reforming and properly supporting our education system, she will fight for what’s important to us."

"I am grateful for the overwhelming support I’ve received in Florida," Clinton said. "These local leaders will be critical in growing our grassroots support and spreading our message of change across the Sunshine State."

Today’s endorsers join other leaders from across Florida in supporting Hillary, including Reps. Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Alcee Hastings, Kendrick Meek and Corrine Brown.

FLORIDA LEADERS ENDORSING HILLARY TODAY:

* Chan Bryant Abney, Attorney, Martin County
* Andy Bailes, Baker County Democratic Party Chairman
* Dick Batchelor, Business Leader, Orlando
* Palm Beach County Clerk and Comptroller Sharon Bock
* State Representative Mary Brandenburg, Palm Beach County
* Commissioner Angelo Castillo, Pembroke Pines
* Marcelo Claure, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County
* Mayor Joy F. Cooper, Hallandale Beach
* Vice-Mayor Thomas Dorsett, West Park
* State Representative Terry L. Fields, Duval County
* Maria and Cipriano Garza, Civic Leaders, Miami-Dade County
* Mayor Susan Gottlieb, Aventura
* Steven J. Green, Former Ambassador to Singapore, Miami-Dade County
* Santhea Hicks, Community Leader, Jacksonville
* State Representative Martin David Kiar, Broward County
* Sharon Laird, Community Leader, Duval County
* Michael Langton, Former State Representative, Duval County
* Vice-Mayor Don Maines, Southwest Ranches
* State Senator Gwen Margolis, Miami-Dade County
* Mayor Thomas A. Masters, Riviera Beach
* Mayor David McLean, Margate
* Jorge Perez, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County
* Ju’Coby Pittman-Peele, Community Leader, Jacksonville
* State Representative Scott Randolph, Orange County
* Commissioner Gary Resnick, Wilton Manors
* Reverend Henry T. Rhim, Jacksonville
* Louis Ritter, Former Mayor, Jacksonville
* Lula Rodriguez, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County
* Ray Ruga, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County
* Commissioner Joseph A. Scuotto, Sunrise
* Carole Shields, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County
* State Representative Kelly Skidmore, Palm Beach and Broward Counties
* Charles Smith, State Democratic Committeeman, Holmes County and Pauline Smith
* Nancy Soderberg, Former Ambassador to the United Nations, Jacksonville
* State Representative Priscilla Taylor, Palm Beach County
* Dean Trantalis, Former City Commissioner, Ft. Lauderdale
* Hugh Westbrook, Business Leader, Miami-Dade County

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=3015

-----------------------------------

9/1 Clinton sacrifices Florida on the altar of Howard Dean


Classic!


Don't worry Hill ... you can count on my support. :sarcasm:

They are now labeled as "rogue" for daring to defy Chairman Dean and his Rumsfeld-like management of DNC.

I guess we will end up watching a credentials floor fight in Denver on national TV. Nothing like seeing Dean's goons drag Florida and Michigan delegates out of the convention floor. It will be interesting to watch centrists get the same shoddy treatment that Medea Benjaming received at the 2004 convention.

I don't want this to get to the "goon" stage.
Let us not have another 1968 Mayor Daley type deal.

It is really important to get together to repudiate the Bush era to the extent we can.
That will help in pushing for a more progressive path, even if under a centrist Executive.
If GOP gets in, progress will be impossible.

ANy ideas?

a designation used by Bush to label countries that refuse to bend to his will.

Voters should not be punished because their elected officials pissed off the Beltway party stalwarts. DNC went over the line when they decided to disenfranchise the voters in Florida and Michigan. The DNC could have chosen to let the voters keep the delegates they would have chosen at the primary, and just strip the credentials from the superdelegates--the elected officials that always get a seat at the convention no matter what.

Iowa could have just moved their caucus to the first week in January followed by New Hampshire that weekend, and Michigan and Florida could have done what they did. No harm, no foul! Instead, the DNC decides to go to the mattresses, like some bad episode straight out of The Sopranos.

It is never too late to sit down and have a discussion in which a modus vivendi can be agreed to by all the parties. The worst thing that can be done is to persist in the current confrontational path, which could end up in Denver with a lot of people looking bad on national TV.

For 2012, let's ditch the entire system, and the IA and NH first, and put in place a rotating regional primary system.

I almost wish we had the very old system of New Hampshire being the first contest in the nation, followed by all the other primaries at a decent interval, culminating with California in June. How ironic that it was Iowa that threw the first monkey wrench into that system by establishing their caucus several years ago?

...or Madfloridian will spam us again with the multiple links about the sarcasm of the Democratic Florida legislature that PROVES Florida should be cut out of the process.

(Don't do it, MF, we read it. Every. Single. Time.)

Maybe all parties can sit down and figure out a compromise of some sorts for this cycle.
The stakes are very high, and your take on "looking bad in Denver" is spot on - plus the possible chaos and lack of party unity, putting us in jeopardy in the general.

I have no doubt that SOME hope to benefit by all this infighting, and are trying to promote it - so it must be handled with great care.
I see this happening even here on DU. Shocking! ;)

We should prepare for 2012 by passing public financing, and other laws in an effort to fix deep problems.
This means voting issues and others as well.
I like the regional primaries idea, in context of a publicly funded system.

If we can do that, all this will be seen as a catalyst for positive change.

and she was a delegate! Medea's crime? She dared to unfold a pink antiwar banner.

GOP does not have a monopoly on goons, as those of us that remember Mayor Daley can attest.


If so, why are the Florida Democratic rank-and-file being penalized for the actions of their leaders? This is like punishing the grunts for the criminal actions of the brass.

The DNC could have allowed Florida and Michigan to keep the delegates selected by the primary voters, and strip them of their superdelegate credentials (the office holders and party hacks that always get to go to a convention). Why didn't the DNC do that instead of punishing the people? Who advised the DNC to resort to such a draconian and disproportionate step, Donald Rumsfeld?