Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.

Governor Dean is having to enforce rules set when a senator from Michigan, Carl Levin, got a deal with Terry McAuliffe in 2004 that he would not make primary moves then if Terry appointed a committee to change the primaries.

Now Michigan sure is making its move. Along with Florida. Levin and Nelson got a lot of attention by this, perhaps to push their primary bill. Neither have bothered to point out that Governor Dean and the DNC were enforcing rules that had been in place since 2005, put there by a committee appointed by McAuliffe in a bargain with Levin.

Both are now pushing a regional primary bill that has been pushed for years by Sander Levin, Carl's brother.

I am all for primary change. I am totally against the way they went about this. They launched an attack with Howard Dean and the DNC as target, and now I fear it is becoming more personal than ever because the DNC is not blinking as they were expected to do.

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.

From 2005 in the Washington Post:

Democrats Weigh Plan to Stretch 2008 Calendar



The Price Herman commission, began work early in the year under pressure to add "diversity to the early part of the nomination battle -- diversity being a code word for diminishing the significance of Iowa and New Hampshire."



It was voted on by the 447+ members of the DNC, and okayed by Governor Dean.

Senator Levin knew exactly what the rules were. Senator Nelson knew what the rules were. Governor Granholm knew. They all knew the sanctions were "automatic." The rules have been in place.

They made a power play. I and others have our opinions as to why.

I am not sure of all the motives involved. I do know the Florida party does what Bill Nelson says. I have an email from last night showing that Karen Thurman and DEC chairs were holding conference calls and trying to tamp down some of the anger and frustration. They were supposed to have a meeting on Friday statewide, but Bill Nelson asked that they cancel it so he could present the bill with Levin. So the meeting was cancelled.

Nelson does not want it settled. He has been crossed, and it is intolerable to him.

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"

The most horrible things were the emails sent around to stop donations to the DNC until Dean caved in. Then came emails that said not to donate to the DNC or candidates.

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.

Here's the email:



Tonight a campaign called me. I told them my husband and I were so upset by the lack of truth that we were not going to vote in the primary for a presidential candidate.

I was stunned this person was not really aware of any of what has gone on. We talked for a while, and I filled him in. He was not expecting to run into that, and he said they would be researching this more fully. I asked them to talk to both sides, not just Nelson, not just Florida.

I heard twice yesterday that Nelson is hoping for a VP slot. Didn't hear which candidate.

They have done a lot of manipulation, making it sound like the fault was the DNC's....all the while knowing they had been warned often that sanctions were "automatic."

Maybe it should continue with the lawsuit Nelson is putting together. Maybe he should lead the delegates there next year. There is a lot brewing in the party right now, and the only way to solve it is honesty.

Just as the 50 State Strategy is in place, and the candidates agree to using it for their campaigning in the states, this happens. One might think that Florida's trying to dry up money to the DNC had other motives. Me...I don't know. Just speculating.

That is BULLSHIT!!

They always turn around and start singing the praises of whoever they hated one week earlier as soon as the hated party does something they like. Some people have no talent for complexity of thought beyond "good vs evil." You need to respect that.

What an insulting statement for you to make about someone.

Some things really do matter as issues. They matter very much.

I have seen a pattern at DU lately of personal attacks, ugly ones.

Levin and Nelson have hurt our party unity badly by their me first attitudes.

I find myself disgusted by your personal insult to that poster.

to maintain their level of denial in the face of mounting and escalating evidence.

Because of this, they become more dissimissive and contemptuous the CLOSER all the "wild conspiracies" come to being proven fact.

This is a common characteristic of human nature, and I am trying to be sympathetic to it as such.

But you are right to rip him for it, MadFloridian.

Reap what you sow and all that.

Dean only became chair in 05. The committee was at work then.

Why did MI and FL wait until just now to blatantly ignore the rules they knew were in place?

Inquiring minds want to know.

The shafta of nafta has damn near crippled this state but who would know? Not the nightly news that's for sure. So while people are whining about "rules" the population in this state is blowing a big fat raspberry at all of them. Too bad, so sad.

The DNC will be supremely lucky if the state is not red in 2008.

if they don't go red.

But the DNC did not cause them. The DNC did not cause Florida's problems either.

That is my point. There seems to be a tendency to put the blame there, which does not make sense.

They have known the rules for two years. Why not do something sooner?

to spreading around the "blame". While some decry two years worth of primary "rules", the people here are bitching---mightily---about 8 years of a bullshit economy. And nothing has been done about that by republicans or democrats. Housing crisis? Hell Michigan has been in a housing crisis for years.

Michigan, the people, the Democrats, are making a point that both sides would like to sweep under the rug, namely, they haven't done shit. And that includes the Michigan house and senate.

It may be quaint to continue to have a NH or Iowa primary first but the fact is---we just don't care anymore. Quaint won't pay the mortgage or feed a family.

Put the blame where it belongs for your economy...it is NOT the fault of Dean or the fault of the DNC.

That is just an unfair argument.

This is an act by some senators to hurt party unity. I have been and will continue to call them out on their lack of openness and honesty.

this state's serious difficulties. As far as the party unity thing goes, I am not so sure that exists in either party. Its a nice sentiment but pretty far from reality.

only the way this was gone about. This is about blaming the DNC and Howard Dean, hurting his reputation with the people of both states, and not being fair.

Michigan's legislature had in mind. In this state we finally see elected leaders raising some kind of hell about the economy in Michigan.

I don't hear people here blaming Dean. He's a bit part player to most people in this state.

That is a sincere question.

But...to query the matter solely on the basis of party rules is to ignore some very key points

First, it is a way of framing the debate and clearly that's been rejected by the Michigan legislature and the governor who signed into law a change in the primary date. It is not up to the legislators on either side to determine primary dates along party lines. Rather, the new law came into being to raise the awareness of how serious this state is about national politics and its bearing on Michigan citizens. For better or for worse that's the way it is.

You ask how breaking party rules will help Michigan's economy...I ask...how will it hurt? What is to be gained for Michigan by subscribing to the same tedious schedule that merely results in endless promises, a promenade of politicians who should care but don't about the real needs of this state? Nobody believes the rhetoric here anymore. So, like most dissatisfied people, Michigan is seeking change and its a bloody and brutal fight in this state at present.

The debate about primaries is over. It's now law and I guarantee you the politicians will come. Every politician running for prez will show up here. What they won't have is some of the same old tired methods of predicting outcomes by which they gage their campaign strategies.

Michigan citizens want action. They aren't happy about this state's economy regardless of how it came to be. So even something like changing a primary date becomes significant. We are going to have higher taxes of one kind or another in Michigan and people won't be happy about that either.

Michigan is getting noisy about these issues because whether people agree with me or not---your state is next.

Heading for bed. Thanks for discussion.

and deindustrialization are having across America. Michigan would be a good primary state at this time because it would put the problems of urban America into the spotlight just as Iowa puts the problems of rural America in the spotlight. Florida would put the problems of the aging population demographic in the spotlight. Right now none of the early primary states allow declining urban postindustrial America or the elderly to influence the outcome of the primaries. To assess the candidates properly, we need the input of these demographic groups. I think that early primaries in Michigan and Florida would be a good thing. We need to get more working class urban Americans out to vote. We need to find out who they will vote fore. We can do that in Michigan. We need to find out where the senior population stands. Florida is mostly affluent seniors, but still it reflects their opinions at least. Seniors vote. We need to find out who they will vote for. Maybe Michigan and Florida have a point.

Of course, this still leaves the western states without a meaningful voice in the selection of the presidential candidate. That needs to be remedied also.

and waited until now to break them and cause so much anger.

It will hurt all of us.

Iowa and New Hampshire get all the attention and the rest of the country is pretty much ignored. The more solidly blue (or red) a state, the less attention. Early primary and swing states get all the attention. That causes a lot of resentment. I can understand focusing on the swing states, but having certain states always be the early primary states is not good.

to blink! They got the fresh blood.

Recommended~

Deals, deals, deals..who knows what these political maneuvers are about but I have seen Dean work for the last 5 years and I know he's for the Peeps and I trust him.

We have had our last 2 elections screwed with. Dean has rebuilt the party from a disaster it was left in.
made it strong.
All the states agreed to this and they are bound to it.
If you allow either fla. or Mich. to go ahead with their hissyfit then all hell will break loose.
Guess who gets the short end of it. the voters. We don't need to rush to have elections next week.
People need to be able to make a wise choice without the same screwing around going on.
How'd the last 2 elections turn out? the gop sneaking around.
now some elitist DLCers want to play some games and for what. the people loose.

Late night toast~ :toast:

:hi:

The state legislature proposed a law and the governor signed it. So its a done deal whether candidates show up or not. And frankly, all of the people I know would just as soon they stay away...lot less trouble.

You BET YOUR ASS she is.

So is Stabenow.

Coincidence? I think NOT.

ago, no one would have paid attention and they would not have any leverage.
Do it when it forces people to show their cards or don't do it at all.

Who's gonna blink?

All kinds of things could happen. Could be a very interesting convention. ;)

They KNEW the rules. The voted FOR the rules. Now, they want to change the rules in the middle of the game. I hope Howard Dean and the DNC will not kowtow to this blackmail. If Florida and Michigan want votes at the convention, then play by the rules.

And, if Florida and Michigan hold early primaries, I hope all the other states sue the Florida and Michigan parties. Who in the hell makes them more important than any of the rest of the states that are playing by the rules?

is, as the head of the party can just reinstate them before the convention?

.

it might be difficult to have a settled nominee. That would make things very interesting.

Even as a kid, I thought that they were interesting and significant.

Like Al Gore? Wesley Clark?

and world situations so volatile, that maybe by the time the convention roles around in August, the candidate who looked good in February doesn't look so good in August. For example, if the unemployment rate reported by the Feds is something like 12%, any candidate supporting unfair trade agreements and increased insourcing of jobs still here (one way or another) won't be very popular and could easily lose the general election, particularly if the Republicans go crazy and nominate Ron Paul.

I'd be thrilled with Gore. Clark I'd like to see as Secretary of State or Defense because that's where his expertise and experience lies. He could do great things there.

http://www.ironwooddailyglobe.com/0905prim.htm



Levin has a real hatred for NH, and he wants them punished for moving ahead of Michigan who moved ahead of NH by breaking the rules. Only one problem. NH has not done that yet.



In other words, Carl Levin is saying it is ok for Michigan to break the rules but he wants NH punished if they do it.

:think:

The idea of letting Iowa and New Hampshire pick our nominees every cycle is not terribly democratic. The sooner we work something else out, the better.

It is hurting a lot of people in our state.

This move shows me the whole thing is already won. It is a done deal.

renegade state, Michigan, & I agree with your position.

:hi:

or perhaps quite deliberate suicide initiated by Bushie Moles within.

So kick.