To All Those "I Can Never Vote For Hillary" Types

Not to worry.

IF she's the nominee, we'll get her elected with or without your help.

Have a nice day.

:shrug:

She's not electable.

that is nothing but flamebait and rude and obnoxious to boot. Have a wonderful day with your smugness.

:rofl:

It's ok to post crap saying you won't vote for her, but it's not ok to post something saying how moronic and self defeating it is NOT to vote for the Democrat?

Just cause you disagree with it, doesn't make it flamebait.

Besides, it's a polite OP, you should have seen the first draft.

I'd vote for ANY Democrat out of the current crop who snags the nomination. Even Gravel and Kucinich.

:puke:

A picture says a thousand of my words . . . Mrs. "There are positives to outsourcing" and The Reagan King.

MOTS!

no flames.

how can you be sure the Dem would win?

It's more important to post self-righteous pontifications condemning anyone who doesn't think as you do or want to vote as you do. Yeah... f*ck us. It's more important to be combative and self-interested than to talk about a problem.

TC

:hi:


They won't vote for a corporate candidate

about what happens if she's nominated.

Generally, when people point out that she's far better than ANY Republican, and that not voting Democratic means you HELP the Republicans, there are a lot of indignant posts about how it is a free country and no one should TELL anyone else how to vote. (Which of course, no one is doing.)

So, I took a different approach. I'm tired of trying to convince people, who CLAIM they are progressives but won't vote for someone with one of the most progressive voting records in the senate and a lifetime of work on behalf of those values.

What do you suggest?

"Generally, when people point out that she's far better than ANY Republican, and that not voting Democratic means you HELP the Republicans, there are a lot of indignant posts about how it is a free country and no one should TELL anyone else how to vote. (Which of course, no one is doing.)"

..... and nothing but ugliness ever came of those, because the real issues never got examined.

funny-- those same issues might come up in a discussion about this election.


-------


I understand the Let's Get Behind Whoever The Dem Candidate Is concept. Meanwhile, I suggest that the Democrats would be well served to nominate a candidate that will appeal to the millions of young non-voters and AVOID AT ALL COSTS nominating someone who reinforces their opinion that the US has one corporate party with two wings.

:thumbsup:

I don't know what to suggest, but I know these smug, self-righteous "f*ck you" threads aren't a positive addition to the discourse.

TC

People who will vote for her are screwed at DU either way with the "I'll never vote for her" crowd. Try to convince them, and they say you're being arrogant, try to say, ok, we'll do it without you, and they say you're being arrogant. No win situation.

...you actually are arrogant, huh?

To the wise, a word is sufficient. But that's only to the wise.

you're actually a petulant child trying to get the thread locked, eh? Werd up!

...anything of substance with which to reply?

who just came in to troll the thread.

to characterize something you disagree with as "flamebait."

I want a Democrat in the WH in '08. Be that Edwards, Obama, Clinton, Biden or Gravel (or someone else.)

Apparently you don't.

it'll relieve all that anger.

I'm voting for Edwards when my state CA gets its chance, and I hope that I feel good about whoever gets the nomination, since I'm voting for that person.

- voting for Edwards in the primary (and hopefully the general).

And if there's someone else heading the ticket in November, he/she has my vote as well.

It's arrogant to refuse to discuss the concerns of those who see that the corporate connection is problematic, to say the least.

It's arrogant to slam people who have legitimate concerns about this; concerns that were impossible to discuss -- important as they were -- after these same issues had a potent effect on the 2000 election.

Shall we shift from arrogant to ignorant? If we ignore the real issues and refuse to discuss honestly why a candidate is or is not electable, Democrats could lose this election.

Assuming that we can't lose it is arrogant.

300 million people in this country. It amazes me that we cannot find a better crop of candidates but maybe it has always been this way. I remember my dear departed father complaining about the same thing.

This time though, with climate change happening faster and faster, I really want someone in control with the vision and the will to make the changes needed. I want the youngsters will have a habitable planet. I don't see any of the candidates concentrating on this. If the parts of the planet dies that sustains humans, none of the other stuff matters.

Not a time when one should have to vote while holding one's nose.

Quite good odds, I'd say.

:sarcasm:

"how moronic"

"Even Gravel and Kucinich" WTF???? If Kucinich "snags" the nomination I'd be jumping up and down for joy....Finally we would have put a "non establishment" type candidate where they belong - leading the Dems and then the Free World.

how can you be sure?

/sarcasm

Gore easily fended off the 2000 attack by some pinhead named Nader who espoused actual Democratic values...

oh, wait - you say that Gore lost because he was vulnerable to a third-party candidacy from someone who was a true Liberal? Wow.

I will help you, ruggerson :hi:

WesDem will help you, ruggerson :hi:

TC

:scared:

:hug:

TC

:hug:

:)

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

i don't see how you can win an election without votes - unless you pull a Bush/Cheney and steal it, but like i said... good luck to you.

They are truly stunning



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3504050


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_Democratic_Party_%28United_States%29_presidential_primaries%2C_2008
:toast:

Did you consider something less flamebaity, like:

I'll vote for any Dem who makes it to the top.

Doesn't mean I think she's the best candidate. Not by a long shot.

take a controversial position or two (and stand by it) and figure out what the hell her stance is on the war, I'd consider voting for her.

In the meantime I'll be working to make sure she isn't the nominee, without your help.

Nice day to you, too. :eyes:

Hey,I'm Canadian!

:rofl:

Especially Canadians :D

how would you know that, she is doing pretty good in the polls, even against the Repubs.

I will vote for her...she will need every vote she can get.

Fine. But I imagine if she loses, you'll be Nadering these people to death for the next 4 years.

But, I think that most of us who are not that fond of HC, would be disappointed to HAVE to vote for her, but we probably will, when we see what real evil awaits us if we don't. It's just that after 2006, we have become so hopeful for change, real change, not business as usual, not the same old corporate bullshit which is basically ruining the middle class and the poor!( to say the very least) We want something better, and Hillary Clinton is just too friendly with the corporates for my tastes!
She might as well be a rethug!

If she gets the nomination, which is by no means a given, I think more rational heads will prevail and folks will look at the choice they have between her and the Republic candidate. Decent, progressive supreme court appointments vs. evil ones which will change our country for generations.

there is NO candidate everyone likes....

I am so tired of the:

"If Hillary is the nominee, I will not vote!"

"I'll stay home!"

"I'll vote for the third party candidate!"

you play right into the republican plan... you are all idiots... do I like every candidate that gets the nomination?

NO!!!!!

But if your candidate wins the nomination and others refuse to vote for that person then your candidate can't win!!! and the result is the republican wins...

Trust me there are people running that others truly are hoping like Hell do not get it... as much as some of you Hillary haters... only difference is we are not dumb enough to vote 3rd party for a nothing piece of shit....

Those you've quoted are expressing their freedom of choice. You make it sound as if 100 million people will stay home on election day when you know that's not the case. As for voting for a third party candidate, the last time I checked, there were more than two candidates on the ballot. So if a person wants to vote for the Natural Law Party candidate, c'est la vie!

As for the Republican winning, this is what happens when you nominate people who don't arouse any passion in people (Mondale, Kerry, et al). As for me, I'll vote for her on an absentee ballot. I could care less who she chooses for her running mate (Bill's the de facto veep anyway), her nomination speech or the "debates."

it doesn't get you anywhere... yes we live in a free country to vote our conscience... people voted for Nadar and he got his 2-5 % yippee!!!! and in the end the person with the highest numbers wins... whether that person has the support of the majority or not... we do not have a run-off election or an election that requires the winner to receive better than 50% of the public vote...

so with the system we have when you vote for a third party candidate... you should do so with the understanding that if you had stayed home, it would have made no difference.... people who voted for Nadar should know that we could have Gore as president rather than Bush.... if their vote was worth the cost to them then that is their decision.... myself, I could not live with that decision....

I could tell you there are other candidates that I would dread being our nominee.... I REALLY am afraid of them... not b/c of their policies... but that I think they will lose the general election and lose us the opportunity to change public opinion toward a more progressive agenda politically... I think they are weak and likely to follow in the footsteps of Kerry... and we will have four more years of bullshit!!!

I will campaign for whoever is the nominee... even if that person is my LAST choice... and so should every other democrat!

I think your message will play real well with the doubters.

Vote for us or fuck you!

"I WILL NEVER VOTE FOR HILLARY CLINTON?"

That's a "doubter?"

rofl.

And no one said fuck you. Them's your words, mate.

Woo-hoo, only Hillary can convince Democrats that the war "can still be won".

And while another 5,000 men are killed fighting in Iraq, America will be incorporated and officially be known as the United States, Inc.

than endless preemptive shifting of the blame for a Hillary loss to those who won't vote for her.

and they apparently hate it when you say, ok, whatever, we'll get it done without you then.

n/t

I'm fairly confident that even with your help, she'll lose more then enough democratic voters to not be elected. Thanks for hurting the party.

Can you Imagine 4 years of listening to Hilllary's Raspy Voice? I would rather hear fingernails scraped on a chalkboard. Hillary DOES NOT care about Democrats. She is Bush Lite......

Who cares if she's got a raspy voice? What's that got to do with anything?

First...you're mistaken if you think Clinton will win without the bulk of the Democratic vote, as well as a chunck of Independents.

Second...if that's the attitude...."we don't care what you think" well, that is just more of what we've had for the past six years, isn't it? Why would I want to vote for someone with the same "dead certain" attitude as *?

you obviously don't need us...

And I disagree. We are the worker bees.

She's got plenty of support here at DU and in the base of the party. Those people aren't worker bees?

That's what the party thought in '68, that they could get by without all those pesky liberal anti-war types. How well did that work out.

Frankly, between being abandoned by the progressive and anti-war left, and facing an energized, large turnout by the 'Pugs and conservatives, if Hillary is the nominee, she will lose next fall.

But hey, keep whistling past that graveyard. Just don't come back whining to the left about losing, you brought it on yourselves by pushing a pro-war corporate whore down our throats.

And you'll deal with the consequences with or without my "told you so" too, apparently.

IBTFL!

End of story. It is a free country if that is the best you can do voting for Hillary go for it.

:sarcasm:

Why not just tell them to f*ck off while you're at it.

there have been a hundred threads wherein people reasoned with, pleaded with and cajoled the "I will never vote for Hillary" crowd.

The reaction invariably was: fuck off, don't tell me how to vote, you're being arrogant, she's a corporate shill, etc.

So, they hate being asked to kindly vote for the democratic nominee, whomever that may be.

The OP here merely says, ok, if you feel that way, we'll get it done with or without you.

To pretend that the attitude and hostility comes from the pro democratic party side of this divide is really disingenuous.

...someone says they will never vote for her... what do you say?

If you're tabling for Clinton on the street, what do you say?

There is always a chance you could change people's minds if you have a persuasive argument...

and say this is you!

...a "Democratic President' means a Democratic administration - thousands of Democratic appointed Cabinet staffers, all of whom making small decisions everyday that are the MIRROR OPPOSITE of what a Republican administration would do. A Democratic president means Democratically appointed federal judges, not just the Supreme Court, but HUNDREDS of federal judges, all of whom have major impact on our daily lives. A Democratic president means a chief exec who can issue a progressive executive order and change lives.

I will vote for the Democrat, because it's in the country's best interest to do so. Even if I"m not wild about the PARTICULAR Democrat.

And I would humbly hope that you would find the courage to do so as well, vote for someone you don't necessarily agree with on all issues, and together we can move the country forward.

That's essentially what I would say.

...isn't it?

Could the mindless, childish attitudes among her supporters, such as the one displayed here, possibly be among the reasons Senator Clinton is so widely despised?

And I'm not even a supporter of hers (in the primary.)

But I am a Democrat.

Are you?

...to try & impress you with credentials. You are a troll. My conversation with you is over.

the troll "hit and run." See ya.

We'll score this scrimmage for the Democratic party.

Couldn't have put that any better. We don't have Oprah's money on our side; but, oh well; who needs it? whatever! :thumbsup:

:thumbsup: