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TNR&c: John Kerry is Right to Be Scared

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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:04 AM
Original message
TNR&c: John Kerry is Right to Be Scared
Noam Scheiber's Daily Journal of Politics 2.18.04:

The Wisconsin exit polls are turning up what looks like a paradox: Despite John Kerry's aloof-liberal-Brahmin rap, and despite John Edwards's heavy "son-of-a-mill-worker" shtick, Kerry did better last night among less educated, less affluent, blue-collar, and rural voters than he did among more educated, more affluent, white-collar, suburban voters, while the opposite was true for Edwards.
Consider some of the numbers. Kerry led Edwards by large margins among people who make under $15,000 per year and under $30,000 per year (rolling up 28- and 13-point leads against Edwards in these categories, respectively). This much you'd expect, since poor voters tend to be overwhelmingly liberal. The interesting thing is that Kerry opened up a 5-point lead among voters making between $30,000 and $50,000 per year--a category you'd probably think of as mostly blue-collar voters--while only beating Edwards by one point in the $50,000-$75,000 category, and actually losing to Edwards (and by 7 points!) in the $75,000-$100,000 category. And Edwards and Kerry were tied among voters making over $100,000. Other than the result among the poor, this is the exact opposite of what the conventional wisdom would predict, which is that Edwards does better among downscale-but-not-poor voters (who tend to be more culturally conservative), and Kerry does better among upscale voters (who tend to be more culturally liberal).

* * *

What on earth is going on here? Why is Kerry winning over poor liberals (one group everyone thought he'd win) but not affluent liberals (another group everyone thought he'd win)? And why is he doing so well among blue-collar voters (a group everyone thought he'd have trouble winning over), while John Edwards struggles among that demographic (who are supposed to be most naturally inclined toward him), but does amazingly well among white-collar voters?

* * *

My own hunch is that what we're seeing is an important divide between less sophisticated voters and more sophisticated voters. Just about the only thing less sophisticated voters--who, I'm guessing, tend to be poorer and less well-educated--know about John Kerry is that he's been winning, and possibly that he's a longtime Senator and a Vietnam veteran. On the other hand, more sophisticated voters--who, I'm guessing, tend to be more affluent and better educated--have probably paid attention to the campaign long enough to know that, in addition to these things, Kerry's from Massachusetts (not exactly a presidential breeding ground of late), tilts to the liberal end of the ideological spectrum, and tends to be kind of boring and long-winded. Which is to say, less affluent, less educated voters are looking at John Kerry's string of primary victories and concluding from them that he's electable. More affluent, better educated voters are actually watching debates and reading newspapers. And they're concluding from these things that Edwards--who is neither from Massachusetts nor a liberal nor boring--is actually more electable. (Particularly after many of these newspapers endorse Edwards, as the two biggest papers in Wisconsin recently did.)

It's a phenomenon that's actually very similar to what goes on in the stock market. Less sophisticated investors just pick the stocks whose prices they've heard are going up. More sophisticated investors actually do some research about the companies they plan to invest in. Up until yesterday, Kerry was that tech stock that the girlfriend of the cousin of the guy down the street said was a can't-miss opportunity, while Edwards was the unheralded stock of a company with a little-known but solid product.

http://www.tnr.com/etc.mhtml?pid=1342
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NV1962 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:15 AM
Response to Original message
1. Everybody is right to be scared
The Winsconsin votes are a bad surf.

Let's wait until Super Tuesday and then welcome the plethora of articles that undoubtedly will surprise us the next day, written in pensive contemplation and sparkling analysis of the befuddling results (predictably, an incomprehensible continuation, totally unexpected of course, of the Kerry avalanche, followed by a bravely imploding Edwards, and Kucinich hanging in there - geez whodathunkit!)

All these piles of overpaid morons trying to convince in writing or gawd forbid with their ugly mugs on TV, yacking that in random order Edwards, Kerry, Kucinich, Sharpton and Bush are very right to be feckin' totally sh*tless.

Yes. Sometimes I really love journos - nice and deep fried.

:boring:
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Feanorcurufinwe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:20 AM
Response to Original message
2. The reason people vote for Kerry is that they are 'less sophisticated'?
:eyes:
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. "sheeple" in DU-speak...
:shrug:
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roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:23 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. See what happens in the closed primaries. Kerry will probably take up
the commanding lead thing again.
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regnaD kciN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:10 AM
Response to Reply #4
15. That's a good point...
...when the writer mentions how well Edwards did among upper-income voters in an open primary, did it occur to him that he might not have been talking about "affluent liberals," but actually about wealthy Republicans crossing over to damage Kerry?

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:48 AM
Response to Reply #15
19. Previous polls on DU show there are quite a few people here
in the same income and education categories as those in WI. It's a myth that all people with high income and high education are Republicans. There's a correlation, but it is far from perfect.
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SerpentX Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:31 AM
Response to Original message
5. What a remarkably insulting article.
What's wrong with those dumb Kerry supporters anyways? Dumb union members, dumb veterans, dumb environmentalists. Well kudos to The New Republican for setting me straight.
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:59 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. His choice of words is unfortunate...
sophisticated and educated strike a somewhat condescending tone...

but I was curious about this income-gap myself, and I thought this was an interesting theory.

The more people learn about Edwards the more they like him. This Edwards supporter believes that :P
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SerpentX Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. "sophisticated and educated strike a somewhat condescending tone"
But "sheeple" is A-OK?
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DjTj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:19 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. also condescending...
I apologize for it. That's what the :shrug: was for. I've never liked the term.

I lend no credence to the article, but I found it interesting. It's a pattern I'd like to look for in future primaries.
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SerpentX Donating Member (262 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:37 AM
Response to Reply #11
14. Apology accepted.
I guess it just seemed uglier coming from an Edwards supporter. I've seen ugly Kerry posts too. Shouldn't have to be that way.
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MSchreader Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:48 AM
Response to Original message
6. Patronizing!
That's all I can say about the article itself. It's obvious this "article" is written for a specific crowd: affluent yuppies looking for a reason to not back BushCorp. It seems that the real message of this piece is: "Look past the 'working class' hokum -- that's for the suckers; Edwards will make the world safe for your Volvos".

If I ever needed another reason to reject Edwards (besides his support for the Iraq occupation and the PATRIOT Act, of course), this is it.

Martin
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TruthIsAll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 04:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. What on earth is going on here? A simple explanation.
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 04:55 AM by TruthIsAll
What on earth is going on here? Why is Kerry winning over poor liberals (one group everyone thought he'd win) but not affluent liberals (another group everyone thought he'd win)? And why is he doing so well among blue-collar voters (a group everyone thought he'd have trouble winning over), while John Edwards struggles among that demographic (who are supposed to be most naturally inclined toward him), but does amazingly well among white-collar voters?

Why?

Because Repubs and Independents voted for Edwards, that's why.
Because they want to derail JFK, that's why.

It's a typical Repuke trick: cause havoc in a democratic primary.

But JFK is leading Bush by 55-43 in CNN/Gallup. Edwards is leading by 54-44.

So it won't work. Unless JFK chooses Edwards for VP.





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texasmom Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:44 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. If Kerry had won Republican and Independent votes
Edited on Thu Feb-19-04 07:16 AM by texasmom
in an open primary--we've had others--it would be said that he has "crossover appeal," that moderate Republicans and Independents are uncomfortable about the direction Bush has taken our country and want a change and that Kerry appeals to them, too, which means he will fare well amongst all groups in November. Edwards is more moderate than Kerry, so it makes sense to me that disaffected Republicans and Independents looking for a change would vote for him. I do think there were some Republicans who went to the trouble to vote for the candidate they thought Bush would have the easiest time defeating, but I think that group is statistically irrelevant and you find them in any open primary.

I think the question the author is posing is whether the more educated and affluent voters who are voting in the primary are viewing electibility in a different way than less affluent, less educated voters.
Personally I think that studying the middle group of swing voters, one could make the argument for electibility for both guys, and I've been struggling with that myself. I am not sure which guy would appeal to the middle people, those who were undecided up until the last minute four years ago. I think there are different variables at work this year--national security, dire economy--but, is are position papers and resume something they study when they pick a candidate? Or, do they pick the guy who makes them "feel" the best, who they like listening to?
I do think the article has a condescending tone, but quite frankly some people are better informed than others. Some people follow the crowd in voting and want to vote for the winner, some people listen to the way the press guides them.

So, while the article is condescending, it does pose interesting questions.
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xxqqqzme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:01 AM
Response to Original message
9. good lord
someone spent a great deal of time trying 2 make a whole bunch of useless numbers describing groups of people make some kind of sense. jaysus! That was painful 2 read. Makes U wonder what kind of childhood some people had.
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Sly Kal Donating Member (248 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:29 AM
Response to Original message
12. Yes the sheep are flocking to Kerry
If he is no longer the front runner after super Tuesday they will flock somewhere else.
I was stunned to call a democrat last week who didn't know there was a primary his month in his state. He probably ended up voting for Kerry because he heard the name before.
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gottaB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 05:35 AM
Response to Original message
13. Scheiber makes an interesting point
But his prejudices have led him to the wrong conclusion.

Among people who make up their mind in the last few days prior to voting, Edwards polls exceptionally well. True in Wisconsin, true in other states. That suggests that that Edwards voters are the group most likely to be influenced by television advertising campaigns.

This observation isn't meant to impugn the sophistication and wisdom of the many Edwards supporters who thought long and hard before deciding to support Edwards. On the contrary, it is quite shrewd to regard Edwards' telegenic qualities and feel-good advertisements as assets. Once we admit to a distinction between more and less sophisticated voters, the fact that Edwards appeals to less sophisticated voters is a plus.

Unfortunately there is a limit to how much Edwards can spend on television advertising. That leaves Kerry as the shrewdest choice to go against Bush, because he can appeal to those who vote on substantive issues, and he can afford to spend money wooing less sophisticated voters.
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bushwakker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:39 AM
Response to Original message
16. TNR = Right Wing Rag
count me as another dummy for Kerry.
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LiviaOlivia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-20-04 08:04 PM
Response to Reply #16
21. The New Republic is not a Right Wing Rag
Andrew Sullivan is an assoiate editor and conservative independent. But overall it is definitely NOT RW because I have been a subscriber for 11 years and would not read nor give my money to a RW rag. Have you ever read it yourself? Maybe your are thinking of The National Review.

This weeks's lead story in TNR
THE RIGHT'S PHONY OUTRAGE OVER DEFICITS.
Crocodile Tears
by Jonathan Chait
http://www.tnr.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040301&s=chait030104

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spooky3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:44 AM
Response to Original message
17. Minorities were the difference
As I recall, JK and JE were dead even among white voters (per the exit polls in WI). But JK carried the minority voters much more strongly.

JE needs to have some focus groups or do other work to find out what he must do here.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Feb-19-04 06:48 AM
Response to Original message
20. Freepers voted Edwards (like in TN). In WI we have proof:

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/primaries/pages/epolls/WI/index.html


Voters who are satisfied with the Bush Administration:
52% Edwards, 23% Kerry

Voters who are enthusiastic about * Administration:
33% Edwards, 10% Kerry

Conservatives voted Edwards, pro-Iraq voted Edwards

Those who are looking to beat Bush:
28% Edwards, 59% Kerry.
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