Between 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 4 Democrats do not support Obama as the Dem nominee.

rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:09 PM
Original message

Between 4 out of 5 and 3 out of 4 Democrats do not support Obama as the Dem nominee.

Edited on Wed Oct-17-07 02:27 PM by rinsd

Poll	Date	Sample	Clinton	Obama	Edwards	Richardson	Spread
USA Today/Gallup	10/12 - 10/14	500 A	50	21	13	4	Clinton +29.0
CNN	10/12 - 10/14	485 RV	51	21	15	4	Clinton +30.0
Rasmussen	10/11 - 10/14	750 LV	45	22	11	3	Clinton +23.0
Reuters/Zogby	10/10 - 10/14	LV	46	25	9	--	Clinton +21.0
American Res. Group	10/09 - 10/12	600 LV	45	20	13	3	Clinton +25.0
FOX News	10/09 - 10/10	377 LV	50	18	11	4	Clinton +32.0

I am trying out this new framing of polls that the Obama campaign seems enamored with. 


On edit: changed want to support in subject line

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Mass

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:10 PM
Response to Original message

1. I do not know if Obama's campaign does that, but this is poor logic at its best.

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #1

4. See this

While the Clinton Campaign likes to portray the competition for the support of women through the lens of meaningless national poll numbers, the true story is on the ground in the early and February 5 states. The latest Des Moines Register poll showed 2 out of every 3 women are not supporting Senator Clinton. In the state where the public knows the candidates best, Iowa, the gender gap being touted by the Clinton campaign is essentially non-existent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3618699

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Mass

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #4

7. Huge difference between not supporting and not wanting.

Edited on Wed Oct-17-07 02:19 PM by Mass

Not supporting means she is not the first choice (probably true).

Not wanting means that they are opposed to him (as in ABB)

But I should know better by now how HRC's supporters are.

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #7

13. So the logic is sound describing the poll in that fashion?

That was my main point.

Your argument is more semantic though I agree I should have used the word supported vs want.

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Mass

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #13

18. Yes, we can also say that one democrat out of 2 or 3 out of 5 do not support Clinton, or

Edited on Wed Oct-17-07 02:32 PM by Mass

that 9 democrats out of 10 do not support Edwards.

Not sure it is meaningful by itself, but sure, it is true.

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #18

19. Its the framing as a negative not the technical accuracy.

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ellacott

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message

2. Obama's enamored? Wow

You guys are something else.

All we see on the board is a new poll everyday regarding Clinton..

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:13 PM
Response to Reply #2

5. Its illogical framing of a poll.

Here's the Obama campaign employing it in a recent memo about his outreach efforts to women

While the Clinton Campaign likes to portray the competition for the support of women through the lens of meaningless national poll numbers, the true story is on the ground in the early and February 5 states. The latest Des Moines Register poll showed 2 out of every 3 women are not supporting Senator Clinton. In the state where the public knows the candidates best, Iowa, the gender gap being touted by the Clinton campaign is essentially non-existent.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3618699

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hisownpetard

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message

3. Say what?

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bluestateguy

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:14 PM
Response to Original message

6. He'd be a bad general election nominee

He's too nice and cuddly. Too much of this "national unity" jibberish. This is politics, not patty cake. And that takes someone who knows how to fight, and not just make soothing speeches.

What concerns me about Obama as the Democratic nominee is that he does not know how to take on the Republican Noise Machine. And make no mistake about it, he will become every bit as polarizing as Hillary currently is, if he becomes the nominee. Hillary is only the most polarizing because she is the most well known. The other side believes that they have a God-given right to the presidency, and anyone who stands in the way of that will earn their wrath. The RNM won't let up on him one bit simply because he's not Hillary.

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Mass

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #6

8. He knows how to deal with them - He is not the one whose haircuts are still feeding the noise

Edited on Wed Oct-17-07 02:19 PM by Mass

machine (not that they ... matter, but he and his wife seem unable to do something about that, or the hedge fund, or any other subject).

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Dawgs

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #6

9. Yeah, lets make sure to keep the country divided.

Boy, I thought the Hillary supporters were desperate.

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bluestateguy

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:24 PM
Response to Reply #9

12. Lincoln, FDR and LBJ divided the country

They all did good things for the nation, but they were divisive (with LBJ, I'm talking about civil rights, not Vietnam). Sometimes to do the right thing (end the Iraq war, national health care, etc) you will have to make some people angry, and forge ahead and do it anyway, because it's the right thing to do.

Some people just have to be left behind, and I'm not terribly interested in being united with James Dobson, Rush Limbaugh and Tom DeLay.

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #9

17. Because if Obama is President all disharmony will cease.

There will no longer be arguments with Republicans, the Mighty Wurlitzer will cease to exist as the right embraces Obama as much as the left will.

:rofl:

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zulchzulu

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #6

20. If you have seen Obama speak in public, you'd have a completely different viewpoint

He's got a lot of cross-demographic appeal. He'd be just fine slamming back at the Repugs.

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Make7

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:22 PM
Response to Original message

10. That's difficult to read - try this:

Edited on Wed Oct-17-07 02:24 PM by Make7

[pre]Poll                Date           Sample  Clinton Obama Edwards Richardson   Spread
USA Today/Gallup    10/12 - 10/14   500 A    50     21     13        4      Clinton +29.0
CNN                 10/12 - 10/14   485 RV   51     21     15        4      Clinton +30.0
Rasmussen           10/11 - 10/14   750 LV   45     22     11        3      Clinton +23.0
Reuters/Zogby       10/10 - 10/14       LV   46     25      9       --      Clinton +21.0
American Res. Group 10/09 - 10/12   600 LV   45     20     13        3      Clinton +25.0
FOX News            10/09 - 10/10   377 LV   50     18     11        4      Clinton +32.0[/pre]

Copy and paste that (including the [pre] tags) into your post and you should get something like this:

Poll                Date           Sample  Clinton Obama Edwards Richardson   Spread
USA Today/Gallup    10/12 - 10/14   500 A    50     21     13        4      Clinton +29.0
CNN                 10/12 - 10/14   485 RV   51     21     15        4      Clinton +30.0
Rasmussen           10/11 - 10/14   750 LV   45     22     11        3      Clinton +23.0
Reuters/Zogby       10/10 - 10/14       LV   46     25      9       --      Clinton +21.0
American Res. Group 10/09 - 10/12   600 LV   45     20     13        3      Clinton +25.0
FOX News            10/09 - 10/10   377 LV   50     18     11        4      Clinton +32.0

- Make7

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rinsd

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:27 PM
Response to Reply #10

15. Thanks!

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LSparkle

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:24 PM
Response to Original message

11. At least Obama hasn't gotten testy with questions or kicked people out

The more I hear about the way Hillary is running her slick, *faultless* campaign makes me cringe.

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zulchzulu

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:26 PM
Response to Original message

14. Since it's all over 80+ days still the first votes, there isn't a need to get out the vote

I would suggest to the Clinton supporters that she has the race in the bag and there isn't really a need to vote. After all, the national polls show her with overwhelming numbers.

Just stay home.

:rofl:

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Cameron27

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Wed Oct-17-07 02:29 PM
Response to Original message

16. Is that a memo or a press release lol.

I don't know why Obama's camp thinks that 1 out 3 thing helps him.

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