DU hypocrisy and the Obama debacles

Yep, this is about the "gay thing" and the "kingdom on earth" thing.

If ANY of the Republican candidates had done either of those things that Obama has done, DU would would be hopping about it. They would probably make the Top 10 Conservative Idiots for doing it. But because it is Dem doing it, many here think that they need to get a pass, or that is isn't really what they think, or that it's a good thing to get more votes so we win in 2008. But aren't we supposed to be fighting bigotry on DU no matter what? If we can't call out our own when they are bigots, how are we different than the Freepers?

To support my point. Do a search on "mccain christian" and you will see that he in fact DID make the Top 10 for that:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=103&topic_id=311223

and you will see threads like this one that indicate great disdain for his inclusion of religion and politics:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=3010895

But apparently Obama and Clinton get a pass, or those of us that say something are either labeled as "supporters of the other" or "militant atheists."

I don't get it. I realize that people support their candidate. But that shouldn't be at the expense of calling out bigotry.

Oh, and who do I support? I'm trying to decide which one will make me throw up in my mouth the least given the "look how religious I am" crap that has been going around. Kinda looks like Edwards, but who knows. I live in Wisconsin, so I have a lot of time to figure it out before I have to vote.

edited: for stupid spelling errors

I am also tired of this bullshit assumption that if one DOES NOT like religion one is a BIGOT. WTF?

There are some seriously UNIMPRESSIVE Obama supporters here at DU.

Obama can stick his "kingdom on earth".

there is no reason in the world for Obama to spew hate about gays, or people against them. If he wants to travel with this person who hates gays, what of it. Just because you might associate with someone does not mean you have their views.

I think Obama has not said anything hateful about gays himself, so I think people should give this a rest.

I take up for Hillary because the Obama supporters over whelm the list with swift boating against her. I love Edwards. And I don't Obama should be criticized for association. IF HE TRAVELED WITH NOTHING BUT GAY BASHERS, THAT WOULD BE ANOTHER STORY.

Speaking of hypocrisy.

Now, how is that bashing Obama?

At an event he is sponsoring. That shows that he is endorsing that person. How can it mean anything else? So if a white Dem puts David Duke on the stage to be a speaker (even if he isn't talking about races but running a campaign) during an event they sponsor, you think the black community should not have a problem with that? What if Clinton put some he-man-woman-hater up there?

Unless I'm wrong Obama will not be traveling with him as he is only sponsoring the events, also the fellow will be at only one of the three events with two other artists at the time

I strongly disagree with his views and while i don't like gospel music i did look up a few songs by him and must admit it was nice to listen to. So basically if he does what he is supposed aka sing only then i have no problems with him being at the one event he will sing(he is a good singer even if his views are bad, and he got hired for his singing talent i believe not to hold a speech)

sidenote: i won't touch upon the whole candidate supporters attack other candidates since i find all sides to have a minority that keep attacking the other candidates no matter how petty

Once someone engages in expediency, what will the limits be? The answer to this, as the answer to most human dilemmas should be that we'll judge them on the relative merits and try to keep things in perspective.

If he's going to travel around with a gay-basher in his bible-thumping medicine show, then he should take some hits for this. Is the guy "not really all that bad" because he's a christian? That's the kind of self-congratulatory ugliness that makes me dislike religion so much. One is the sum of one's actions, and affiliation with some cosmic worldview doesn't give someone carte blanche.

This is very disturbing, and it deserves to be brought out into the open. The very idea that someone can't really be dismissed as a demagogue of bigotry just because he believes in the "proper" guess is a form of privilege; it's an evocation of justified aristocracy, and that's against everything that Democrats should stand for.

This is ugly. It's deeply ugly and it's also another example of extremely bad judgment on Obama's part. I'm aware that, as an agnostic and disliker of religion, I'm no more than a begrudgingly tolerated cur in this society, but I don't like having to endorse the righteousness of the bullshit, and it needs to be addressed for what it is: prejudice shielded by privilege, something that should be anathema to lefties.

He should take some fairly sharp verbal hits for this because that's what it warrants, just as Senator Clinton should for the scoundrels and brutes she consorts with; if Obama continues this with other instances, he should be shouted down from the rooftops amid the pealing of bells.

Thank you

I spend a lot of time under the bus with you gay folk :P

Where did Obama say that?

Bunch of lying liars. People will say any damn thing.

I used that as an example of a Republican engaging in "god talk" that people didn't like. Please let me know where in my post I said Obama said that.

You said Obama said the same thing as McCain, that they were the same. And you did it because you think it helps Edwards, which means you're being at least as hypocritical as you're accusing Obama of being.

I was using an example of McCain mixing politics and religion. That's why I said this:



And, yeah, I'm doing this to help Edwards because this is such a ringing endorsement of him:

Someone making me puke a little less than the others means I'm an Edwards shill. Doesn't take much, does it.

Sorry I actually used words to show what I was meaning.

As if Edwards has never spoken about religion.

This is a load of hypocritical bull shit. All of it.

Obama is the ONLY candidate who has actually criticized the right wing fundy bullshit, and tells the black community they are wrong to be homophobic. But he's the one attacked for talking about religion. It's flat out stupid.

And YOU are exploiting people while pretending to lord it over Obama with your holier than thou morality.

Big heaping piles of bull shit.

"makes me throw up a in my mouth less than the others" don't you understand.

But, hey, just go on thinking this is some Edwards catapulting propaganda. Don't actually look at Obama and think he has done something shitty. But also don't come bitching to me when he does shit that actually pissess YOU off, because you've been warned. Repeatedly.

throw up in your mouth? I ignore anybody who uses that ridiculous movie cliche. Good bye.

when it was in my OP. Instead, you tried to pass me off as some kind of Edwards shill. Perhaps you should read more closely. Then you would have left before even responding to me the first time and that would have made me sad. Oh, wait, no it wouldn't have.

when you have to waste so much time clearing up other people's distortions of what you actually posted?

Your message was clear enough, Goblinmonger.

It's a commom tactic of those that have nothing to argue. My wife is an attorney and constantly sees that in briefs from the other side when they have jack shit. She has to write for 20 pages just pointing out the lies. It's a horrible tactic of the desperate.

I'm confused. Thanks!

Unfortunately, the perpetrators are usually the least self-aware among us.

There were at least 2 threads a couple of weeks ago criticizing Obama about the "kingdom of god" comment.


There will always be some supporters of every candidate who will call people names for being critical of their candidate. That's just the way it is around here. It happened in 2003/2004.

It's not right, but you can't control every single anonymous person who posts here.

This thread is pathetic.

My concern is with that little thing called the first amendment. Sorry you don't get that. I bet that guy in your avatar would not like what Obama is doing.

how dare you attack his candidate!!1!?

How can progressives be so damned black and white? You're either for me or your against me. I thought Bush was the champion of the false dilemma, but people here are proving me wrong.

It is more than laughable.

You got a star, smarty pants, go ahead and search my posts and show me ONE in which I am making it clear that I am doing this to push my candidate. I'll save you the time. You won't find ONE post in which I cheerlead for any of the candidates.

It just can't possibly be that Obama did something shitty. No, that's not it. It must be that everyone speaking out about this is smearing him.

:shrug:

Is it possible to smear smear?

:eyes:

gobama!!

He is Not shoveling any Bullsh** around. Just not as much name recognition as the "top tier".

and he may be the one I feel most comfortable supporting. I don't hate religion, and I don't the religious, but no one's personal beliefs belong in a Democratic platform or campaign.

DU is ugLy now. even with aLL the ignores.

some think it's only ugly if you are the one getting thrown under the bus and they, then, don't care about you. I always thought progressives were those that actually cared about the people used for bus traction. :shrug:

they don't Like it either:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3632438

So please let me kick and recommend this thread, and say that You Did Good, Goblinmonger! :applause:

Religion is far, far more often the source and/or justification for bigotry rather than the target. And, I don't care how fanatically some people support a candidate, there is no excuse for making bigots part of a campaign.

Means a lot coming from you. I just can't believe what I have been reading lately.

What kind of militant fundie atheist would I be if I didn't actively campaign for the death of all that is religious?

Nicely stated.

Well said.

When McCain goes courting evangelicals, he's appealing to and validating their bigotry which he once condemned.

When Obama does it, he tells them directly that their bigotry is wrong, and that their faith should inspire them to work towards progressive change.

How can you not see this difference?

Not smart to be on the wrong side of history. Note that the MAJORITY of African American ministers lined up with the LGBT community in a relatively conservative city.

The following is from the Laura Flanders book Blue Grit

The next Democratic candidate considering running for president would do well to talk to activists like Justin Turner of Cincinnati Citizens to Restore Fairness, fighting to overturn the anti-gay Article XII.

From a skimpy minority of 32 percent who voted in favor of repeal in February 2004, the Restore Fairness campaign won over 53 percent of the vote on November 2. The campaign set a goal of turning out 60,000 supporive votes; the repeal proposition won with over 65,000. The gains came disproportionately from the most conservative parts of town.

"The key was to put a human face on the message and to address it head on," Turner told me on the phone from his home after the proposition passed.

Kerry campaigned in Cincinnati with the losing, instead of the winning, side. he brought onto the stage with him the one group of African American leaders that was not part of the Cincinnati for Fairness Coalition.