The Gospel Duet, Mary Mary also has some thoughts on Homosexuality:

Clay: I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but you have an extremely large gay following -- how do you feel about homosexuality and having a massive gay following?

Erica: We are aware. Ummm... how do I feel about homosexuality? I feel how God feels about it, but I still love them. I don’t agree with the lifestyle, but I love them. They can come to the concert; I’m going to hug them just like I hug everybody else. They have issues and need someone to encourage them like everybody else -- just like the murderer, just like the one full of pride, just like the prostitute -- everybody needs God. What your struggle is may not be what my struggle is, but we all need Him. So, that's what our music is about giving and God, not to condone the lifestyle or to say, Oh it's okay, but not to bash -- but just to give them God. I mean, I’m appreciative of all of our supporters and fans. Hopefully what their hearing in our music is my love for God.

Tina: You know, I think the fact that our music is very upbeat and works well in clubs -- you know, I think that's something that makes more people gravitate to it. Like Erica said, we don’t necessarily agree with the lifestyle, but we don’t pride ourselves on bashing. Everyone has things in their life that they need to correct, everybody has struggles, everybody has things that, maybe I should’ve done it this way, maybe I should’ve made this choice, you know, or whatever. Even though that's the way we feel, we don’t bash, we don’t do that kind of thing and we embrace everybody who enjoys our music. Hopefully our music is impacting them in a way that if they see there's some things in their life that's not quite right and doesn’t align themselves wiwhat the Bible says -- hopefully our music impacts them in a way that makes them want to change it.

Then there is Hezekiah Walker, who is a pastor in the Penecostal faith, not exactly a gay friendly denomination, and the head of a Mega Church that is well known for its anti-gay views.

So we have not one, not two, but a total of four homophobic assholes on this tour, is it appropriate to call it the "Gay Bash Tour" now?

http://rodonline.typepad.com/rodonline/2007/10/barack-obama-ca.html

Here's the tour schedule:

Friday, October 26, 2007
Doors open at 7:00pm

North Charleston Performing Arts Center
5001 Coliseum Drive
North Charleston, SC 29418

Gospel Performances by:
Mary Mary, Hezekiah Walker, Beverly Crawford

Saturday, October 27, 2007
Doors open at 7:00pm

Greenwood Civic Center
1620 Hwy 72 221 E.
Greenwood, SC 29649

Gospel Performances by:
Byron Cage, Mighty Clouds of Joy, Vanessa Bell Armstrong

Sunday, October 28, 2007 - the only show McClurkin is scheduled to sing
Doors open at 5:00pm

The Township Auditorium
1703 Taylor Street
Columbia, SC 29202

Gospel performances by:
Mary Mary, Donnie McClurkin, Deitrick Haddon, Mighty Clouds of Joy

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/scembrace

"we don’t bash!" Delusional.

What a crock.

And apparently, there's things in "my life" that I need to "correct"

As a gay man, I just don't know where to start with that bigoted shit. You hear it all the goddamn time, for your entire life. And you get sick and goddamned tired of that crap.

that the right wing uses to disguise their bigotry.

The primary defense Obama supporters have used has been the "Eh, it's a big part of the black faith community, this hatred of homosexuals." cop-out.

What's stunning to me is that DUers can accept that as a VALID reason to include these homophobes in a campaign event.

And now we see it's NOT just McCrackpot. Thanks for researching this, Solon.

What's your plan to effect change?

You think ignoring them will help?
You think arguing will help?
Maybe you want to eradicate them?

Or do you think maybe finding common ground and then working from there will work?

BTW, I don't support Obama.

Oh, and the 'love the sinner' line was used many times by non-other than the DU messiah, Al Gore.

a fundraiser organized by homophobe Rev. Rivers?

Like most religious opponents of same-sex marriage, the Rev. Harold Mayberry, pastor of the First African Methodist Church in Oakland, has preached against homosexuality to his congregation of 2,800. However, he does not think a federal amendment is necessary. The scriptures direct people how to lead a moral life, he said.

"I'm comfortable in what I believe in," Mayberry said. "I'm not rejecting people. As God loves, we love. I don't reject thieves, I reject thievery.''

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/200...


*****


Hillary courts the the Reverend ---

Hillary Clinton Continues Push for Black Vote by Meeting with Bay Area Leaders
released on 08/16/07 at 09:08:22

Last week Senator Hillary Clinton stopped by the African American Art and Culture Complex for a meeting with Bay Area African-American ministers and community leaders.

"I thank all the leaders whom I met with for their contributions to our country and their commitment to fighting for civil rights and equality," said Clinton. "As President, I will partner with African-American leaders to ensure that the promise of America is realized."

The afternoon meeting, organized by Reverend Amos Brown of Third Baptist of San Francisco and Pastor Clarence Johnson of Mills Grove Christian Church, was an opportunity for African-American leaders to hear directly from Hillary Clinton on the issues that affect their community.

<SNIP>

http://www.emergingminds.org/magazine/content/item/5114


****


And celebrates Mayberry's endorsement on her campaign website --

"Senator Clinton has an excellent concept about how she plans to address issues surrounding crime and education. She described how she has partnered with leaders in New York to create a charter school specifically for African American men and notes that the Allen Cathedral AME Church charter school in Jamaica Queens, New York could be used as a model of how to help educate African American young men. Her mentioning of the school shows that she's aware of outstanding successful examples of education in this country. The way she addressed the need for the federal government to partner with inner cities suggests that she's not just focusing on international issues but that she's concerned with domestic ones - particularly crime and violence in our communities. I want a president who knows how to strike a balance between addressing international and domestic challenges facing this country," said Reverend Dr. Harold R. Mayberry, Senior Pastor of First African Methodist Episcopal Church and Chairperson of Network for Interfaith Action.

http://www.hillaryclinton.com/news/release/view/?id=285...

It's either keep your mouth shut about the bigots singing for Obama, or totally write off the black vote?

Your post is not worth addressing. And I don't give a rat's ass what Gore said, he ain't my messiah. Red Herring.

you complain about the homophobia but aren't willing to participate in the lengthy and ardous process of dealing with homophobes.

Even when some of those people agree with you on many issues.

Let me guess, your enlightened response would be "it's not ME who needs to change, it's THEM. THEY are the ones who are bigots. Why should I have to do anything."

And of course after that point, you'll go back to bitching about THEM.

IIRC, there was a reality tv show with a homosexual couple moving into a neighborhood set up for the program.

Neighbors didn't approve of homosexuality before hand but after living with the couple for a while and getting to know them, changed their minds.

Don't think that show ever aired.

So I suggest that bigots STFU if they are not going to be the ones to change.

Zero.

I know where I am not welcome.

Give a little, get a little.


This is a joke, in case there is any doubt. (Before this week I wouldn't have thought this caveat was needed.)

is that in order for homophobia to recede and then vanish, gay people and ANYONE supporting equality needs to be willing to WORK AT A PROCESS.

It's not about saying "they are bigots and need to change".

It's not about complaining.

Nobody is complaining about dialogue.

We are complaining about crude anti-gay symbolism as a CAMPAIGN TACTIC... as a form of voter outreach in a Democratic primary.

who might not be enlightened regarding gender issues but who agree on other issues MUST NOT BE REACHED OUT TO.

That is a huge part of the message many DU'ers are sending out.

Because anytime a Democrat reaches out to a homophobe, you'll just say that homophobe is there as a SYMBOL of homophobia.

You don't have any realistic plan on dealing with the issue of homophobia... apparently unless it's just people sitting around talking.

And Obama probably doesn't have a chance in hell because he does seem to want to solve problems more than get elected.

well, and we find it offensive gibberish.

Endlessly repeating it is not helping

More bashing, apparently - just directed at those who are angry that Obama wouldn't weed out the homophobic bigots.

Should we address racism by inviting the KKK to an Edwards event?

How about we deal with antisemitism by sitting down with the Holocaust deniers at Joe Lieberman's house?

Wait! I know! Let's end the war in Iraq by bringing George Bush to a Clinton fundraiser and asking him nicely please, sir, stop killing all those people?

"Maybe you want to eradicate them?"

Yes, that is exactly what gay Americans want... to "eradicate" religious black Americans.

It's all they talk about at their secret meetings. You don't think anyone goes to a Liza Minelli concert for the singing, do you? That's where they make their plans...

but please don't be disclosing it here. It's supposed to be top, top ultra secret.

Thanks.

suggestions.

All you can do is say it's THEM. THEY are the problem.

And by doing so you are just reinforcing the divide.

:eyes:

to come up with ANY effective solution.

There are only a few options to try when it comes to the problem of homophobes.

And eliminating people who are antipathetic towards you is an very old option sadly used way too often in human history.

These fucking homophobes are.

is ONE way. Sadly and tragically resorted to over the millenia.

Did I say or imply gays actually want to eradicate anyone?

No.

I listed the various ways to deal with groups that oppose you.

I listed three ways mankind has dealt with opposition.

You haven't addressed the question of what YOU THINK WILL WORK.

Because you are not interested in finding a way for society to effectively dealing with homophobes.

confront them, and kick them to the fringes of society, we do not reward them by putting them in the spotlight and mainstreaming their views through exposure on tours for a popular political candidate.

:applause:

:)

who think you are no better than murderers? People who think that you must change who you are at the core of your very being to be acceptable to them.

Tell me.

It is this sort of shit that makes me even more afraid of Stalinist/Maoist solutions than Hitlerian solutions... if you are going to go to war against a group, at least grant them the dignity of admitting you hate them!

I would prefer to be shot "out by the chemical sheds" without the self-righteous preliminaries, rather than having my identity destroyed through re-education first.

This "we will destroy you because we love you" shit is right out of MARS ATTACKS when the Martians are blasting everybody while chanting, "Do not run. We come in peace."

Do Mary Mary not hold these opinions? Is the Mega-Church not homophobic, do you have any evidence to contradict what is in my post?

do not want anyone criticizing your GBLT community. You are bashing people of religion becuase they do not believe as you do. WOW. You are doing the same thing you are taking about them doing. Everyone has a right to religion and believe as they want. We do not have to agree with it. However, it is there choice. You are doing the samething they are doing and you want to find fault. Give me a break. That is what the US stands for everyone is not going to feel or think the same, but we are supposed to be tolerant of others. They did not say the hate the Gay community. However, I am beginning to feel the Gay community hate religon.

"However, it is there choice." :silly:

attend. The KKK has a right to have the rallies. However, I do not see African Americans attending their rallies do you?

Do you?

they say it comes from their religion?

I AM religious, in case you haven't figured that one out, so I don't see how I can "hate" religion, when I focus on bigots who just happen to follow a religion.

However, I see that people here do not know orperceive not to care to know the difference.

This isn't even subject to debate, you and I would answer yes, so why is Homophobia somehow considered different?

Let me get this straight. Bigotry is OK if that's what you were taught to believe.

So if someone hates religion and religious people, for example, then it's OK as long as that's what they were taught to believe.

And if a guy hates women so much that he beats them to a bloody pulp, that'ts OK as long as that's what he was taught to believe.


You're a real piece of work. :crazy:

Of course I see you are trying to slant what I said. Read what I said. Some people are taught in church it is wrong. However, It does not mean they should discriminate against GLBT community. However, I see that you can not read and try to slant what people say to try to make a point which is an invalid point because that is not what was posted.

Ethelk2044 (1000+ posts) Tue Oct-23-07 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #32
39. Not everyone is a bigot because they are going by what the have been taught and believe.
However, I see that people here do not know or perceive not to care to know the difference.



So which people, who are going by what they have been taught and believe, aren't bigots? Which people get a free pass? Is it just religious people? Is it just people who hate gays? Is it just Christians? I'd really like to know who you think gets some sort of free pass to hate and discriminate.

This is just a little bit deeper than a freedom os speech issue.

Gay people are being denied rights that other people, God Fearing Christians included, routinely take for granted.

While I'm not Gay, I'd hazard a guess that any Gay people on this board wouldn't give two shits about Mary Marys' opinion if they could marry, share health insurance or be involved in decisions when their partner had medical problems.

And that's why I have a real problem with Black Christians who hide behind thir faith, condone unequal treatment of others, all the while forgetting that the exact same tactics were used to justify denying us our due rights.

edited: for spelling

:P

You know what really made my head explode when I started reading about this "donniebrook" last night?

I actually read a post that made a somewhat compelling case for me to root for the Sox.

Then I started drinking again.

:rofl:

Well, thank God you nipped that in the bud. :rofl:

"While I'm not Gay, I'd hazard a guess that any Gay people on this board wouldn't give two shits about Mary Marys' opinion if they could marry, share health insurance or be involved in decisions when their partner had medical problems."

Outstanding...simply outstanding.

Washington and anywhere else. That is how you get what you want. Not by saying religion is wrong. Do what MLK did organize and march. Continue to march until you get fair treatment. I am not saying you are being treated fair. I do not feel that way. However, Mary Mary has nothing to do with passing laws. Organize and March on Washington and state capitols.

Was this post meant for me?

If it was, Mary, Mary hasn't denied me anything as I am not Gay. Although by pointing out some of these hypocritical stances, I suppose it won't be long before I'm called a "Fag" lover. I am just waiting for that post.

I guess it's beyond your comprehension that a straight Black man can argue the case that the Black community has issues with homophobia and wrapping it in a veneer of religious piety doesn't change the fact. And where did I attack their religion? It's one thing to say that religion sucks and is hateful and quite another to say that religion should not be used to justify bigoted behavior. And from reading some of your posts, you seem to have a real problem distinguishing between the two

But thanks for the lecture on how to get what you think I want.

edited for spelling

people just because of their religion either. They have their rights to practice religion. My best friend is gay. I love her as my sister and would dog out anyone who comes up against her. However, I see people criticizing religion as the same as those who criticize GBLT community. Enough is Enough. I am not going to tell people who they are allowed to hang with. As long as I feel that I know what is in their hearts, I am not afraid of them.

I will tell you straight up how I feel and will not mix any words.

:silly:

but after reading this post, I think I get the idea.

I'm trying to figure out which side are supposed to be the hatemongers.

The singers in question say gays are a curse, need to be fixed, are a danger to children. And you have some confusion about which side to stand with?

I said I see it on both sides and I mean it.

Many christians see, buddists, jehovah witnesses, mormons, hookers, fornicators, muslims etc.. as being cursed by not living under the will of the tenets of Christianity. They feel that these people are the same as murderers, thieves etc. as being sinners in need of salvation.

Many of you all are responding like it is only homosexuality that they have an issue with.

But just like you're trying to convince others of the "bigger picture", I'm just trying to do my part.

Ella:

I was reading your post and started readin the list of the other religons and then came hookers and fornicators and for a brief moment I thought

"Damn, why wasn't I exposed to those 2 faiths?"

The Church of the Everlasting Fornicators

:rofl:

I understand your point though

I wonder what goes on in the baptismal pool. :)

Is there really a desire on your part to try to understand why some think the way they do? The only alternative I see is to simply dismiss anyone who thinks differently.

Many of us called that bigotry, and it IS bigotry, do we all of the sudden hate religion because we criticize bigots for being what they are?

:crazy:

They would disagree with you. They may consider you a bigot by not accepting what they believe. Some sincerely believe. Just like you sincerely believe your choice of religion while others sincerely believe their choice.

if they are happy with their choice of religion, I do not see anything wrong with that, I would expect they would treat me with the same courtesy. I don't see what's so complicated about that. But we aren't talking about minutiae of theology here, but specific beliefs about other people. If someone has beliefs that call on them to hate or convert Jews, other Non-Christians, Homosexuals, etc. then those beliefs are bigoted, I don't see how opposing such beliefs could be construed as being anti-religion.

But the foundation of some religions is to convert(or witness) to those that don't believe as they do. I don't see it as bigoted or hateful.

It should never be done with a spirit of hate.

but people can't choose their sexuality. Claiming they can, even through just faith, is just cruel.

Unfortunately it won't change until they hear it over the pulpit.

The mainstream culture of the United States is extremely hostile to GBLT people, from families to society, we have people who have their lives practically destroyed for being born different. We have kids and teenagers who have to deal with a largely unsympathetic society, from church, to parents, to figures such as McCloset. That's the reason why I'm so adamant in my opposition to him doing this concert shit, the fact is that people like him are dangerous. This is no exaggeration, a third of teenage suicides in this country are committed by those who are GBLT, many who failed to survive the very "ex-gay" treatment that McCloset himself advocates. He's a symbol of false hope, a roadblock of guilt who claims that through the grace of God, people can be cured of their homosexuality. I do NOT want to see yet more lives unnecessarily thrown away just to placate bigots.

The church still influences societal behavior. And it's not confined to the Christian church. Generally, the Islamic faith believes the same thing.

However, things are changing, slowly but surely, church organizations, both local and national, are beginning to be more accepting of GBLT people, and they along with other religious organizations and civil rights groups should turn up the pressure on those who are bigoted who try to shield their bigotry behind faith.

The Episcoplian Church, where they have an openly gay Bishop, and preach a message of love and acceptance to GLBT people, is one example.

But when GLBT people are confronted by people like Fred Phelps and his "God Hates Fags" message, or a Jerry Falwell who said that AIDS was God's "retribution" towards gay people. Or a Catholic Church that says homosexuality is "disordered" and gay and lesbian families do "damage" to the children involved...we get angry. I simply don't understand how some people can so intolerant and claim they are Christians. I really don't think Jesus would have expressed these kind of beliefs. Do you?

that last one was made by a DUer, BTW, so which side are you on?

You haven't been paying very close attention.

It has to do with bigotry. I find it offensive that people who would allege to be Christian, who say they love God, would engage in this kind of bigotry. That they consider homosexuality a "curse" and something to be "cured". They claim to love us, but how can they love us if they so strongly object to who we are in the first place? It's not anti-religion. But it's a problem I've had with people of faith who espouses these beliefs. Whether it's gospel singers or the Reverend Pat Robertson or Pope Benedict XVI, to claim you are devout Christians and then to essentially condone bigotry is wrong. And there are GLBT Christians who are as devout in their love of God then those gospel singers.

accepted in church. You think everyone agrees with what a pastor states. " My pastor has always stated go by the Bible do not go by what I say. I am a sinner just like the rest of you. " The only person can judge is God. I feel no different toward any of my friends. Gay, straight, black, white, hispanic. As long as they treat me with respect, I do not care about their religion. However, for some the parents have taught differently. My parents taught us to treat all equally. The pot can not talk about the kettle when the kettle is black itself. There is hate going both ways on this board. People can't stand religious people because of their beliefs and visa versa. When someone say they do not discriminate, then they are accused of lieing. How do you know they are lieing. Do you know what is actually in their hearts? None of us do. You have to at some point take the word of the people and their actions. That is what trust is all about. Just because they do not say exactly what you want to hear, that does not mean they are not sincere. They will keep their faith. However, they will respect others in the process.

Where has any of us stated that we HATE religion? many of us ARE religious, what we do NOT tolerate is bigotry and hatred, period. You keep on muddling the issue by making it about religion, its NOT about religion dammit! Its about bigotry, period. Why the fuck are you trying to muddle this issue with a bunch of bullshit points that have NOTHING to do with the issue at hand?

conversation with them. Have you went to dinner with them? Are you friends with them? I am not muddling any issue. Your hate towards religious people are evident in your posts.

<---See this AVATAR, its a big fucking clue!

Is that understood, or do you want me to write it in big assed letters? Here, maybe this will help:

I AM RELIGIOUS!

You keep on making claims that are simply not true, that's lying. To be frank, I don't see why you even find this hard to understand. I criticize people based on their words and actions, not beliefs they keep private, the Mary Mary duet made their feelings and beliefs plain about homosexuality in the interview above. How the FUCK is it hating religion to claim that they are homophobes, when they themselves compare Homosexuality to Murderers and Prostitutes?

:eyes:

:rofl:

So special I could puke. :puke:


And countless Obama supporters are going into contortions to defend this. :eyes:

is being called "anti-religious". This is perhaps the first time I've seen religious and non-religious people attacked, viciously, for attacking bigoted people, by other religious people on this board.

It's their deeply held religious beliefs! How can you condemn that?


If their deeply held religious beliefs told them that black people were (insert bigoted belief here) would people be defending it to the hilt--on DU of all places? And would people be claiming "religious hatred" of those who denounced it?

I'm just utterly aghast.

Its even worse than the "its in the Bible" defense, which was also used by that same poster 2 days ago.

Shellfish is an abomination according to the Bible. Wanna go picket a Red Lobster. :evilgrin:

There. We're WELCOME as they sing and pray for our healing. :silly:

A couple of suggestions would be signs saying:

"We are NOT Prostitutes or Murderers!"

"God made us this way, who are you to question Him?"

"We do not need 'correction'!"

Etc.

Fortunately I am in evil, liberal New Hampshire, and JUST learned that Obama was in my state today. And I am really ticked that I missed the opportunity to hold up a big ol' sign:

NEW HAMPSHIRE DOES NOT TOLERATE HOMOPHOBIA

I haven't had enough opportunities in my life to be told I'm going to hell because I'm a perverted sinner, unless I deny my very self. :sarcasm:

Fuck you Fuck you

I’m not sure if you are aware of this, but you have an extremely large gay following -- how do you feel about homosexuality and having a massive gay following?

My feelings about somebody else's sexuality are nobody else's business, just as nobody else's sexuality is my business. It makes me happy when people like my music.

They are officially supporting and attending a religious organization led by some of the most powerful homophobic bigots in the world.

Sounds like you probably go through a lot of it. Maybe we can help you find a bulk deal.

but it's not okay to have a guy perform songs that contain no homophobia, at an event completely unrelated to homophobia, because some of them think homosexuality is a sin?

Do you have a problem with Picasso's Guernica being at the UN building because he was a notorious misogynist in his personal life?

So it's okay for democrats to give money to a enormous and powerful homophobic cult?

I don't think it's okay for anybody to give money to an enormous and powerful homophobic cult, and yes, that's not far off how I'd describe the RC church, although I'd put misogynistic ahead of homophobic.

I'd prefer that my own candidates not rub elbows with people who adhere to that cult's teachings in those regards, but there's a point at which one just defines one's self out of the known universe once one starts on that road and doesn't have some sort of stopping place in mind.

But if one of my own candidates (I'm in Canada, you see, and a New Democrat / social democrat, not a Democrat) organized an event at which s/he shared at least a metaphorical platform with someone who had made a career of spewing falsehoods about, and inciting negative sentiment about, a vulnerable group in my society, well, I'd draw the line.

My party did draw the line, when it denied an MP who voted against the same-sex marriage bill the party label in the next election.

Yup, it's about line-drawing. We can argue about the fine points of latitude and longitude, but there really are some things that, in the minds of people I want anything to do with myself, cross it.


Do you have a problem with Picasso's Guernica being at the UN building because he was a notorious misogynist in his personal life?

I don't think that the UN is competing with something else for the loyalty of the public, and using Picasso for that purpose. I don't think that fans of Picasso's art are generally even aware of the details of his personal life, let alone that they are fans because they admire his apparent beliefs or because he used his beliefs to acquire fans.

I don't think that either of those statements applies to Obama or to Mcwhatsit's fans and how he actively cultivates them.

Picasso apparently at least had the good sense not to proselytize for his apparent nasty beliefs, which puts him head and shoulders above the artist in question here. Besides, isn't it just a little silly to draw a parallel between someone's obnoxious behaviour, which may have stemmed from any number of things possibly including an obnoxious belief system, and someone else's articulated obnoxious belief system?

Not to mention the rather undeniable cultural, artistic and social value of the work of Picasso's in question, when judged on its own merits, as compared to Mcwhatsit's work ...

For the same reason that hanging a Picasso at the UN isn't a world-wide endorsement of misogynists, having this guy sing is not an endorsement of homophobia. I'm betting that there is a significant proportion in the population that are democratic, or will vote democratic, who also hold the belief that homosexuality is a sin. Even then, if they think homosexuality is a sin, they may not necessarily want the government enshrining those beliefs in law and can be brought around to supporting equal rights for all. I think we can progress equal rights further by engaging them on this issue despite their religious beliefs, than shunning them and basically saying there is no place for them in the democratic party, no matter how insignificant.

Being raised in a Roman Catholic family myself, my parents are still Roman Catholic, I guess, but they refuse to go to Church or tithe to it until it changes some of its beliefs, mostly in related to Women's rights, Birth Control, Homosexuality, and Choice. I care about a person's PERSONAL beliefs, not what religion they are affiliated with, so far all I see here is yet someone else who confuses the two on purpose to misconstrue my justified anger at homophobic attitudes by insinuating that all Christians, indeed all Religious people believe things the EXACT same way. That's insulting to multitudes of religious people who don't believe that way.

What do you think would be the most effective way of changing their views? Should we condemn all the democratic politicians who still go to and giving donations to the church, until they stop going in protest like your parents? Should we reject any democratic politician who attends a church that teaches homosexuality is a sin?

My Parents are private citizens, and pretty much free to do what they wish, regardless of the church's begging at the end of the month when they send the envelope through the mail. There are many things people who attend churches can do to change that church, an obvious way is my parents' route, which is to simply not attend and not support. Other methods include influencing the churches from within, perhaps not financially support it, but to attend and try to influence other people you meet during services. Yet another method is to change churches to ones that more closely reflect your beliefs, this seems to be happening more and more lately.

For politicians, well, more avenues open up, such as criticizing your church when you disagree with them. They could also do what my parents did, maybe not tithe to a church, etc. However, if they endorse a homophobic position of the church, even on a "moral" if not legal level, well, they would never get my vote. Just attending a church doesn't mean you endorse its positions, tithing is more complicated, if the church is active in politics, or unusually outspoken about political positions, well, if they tithe, then they should stop, because they indirectly fund such activity.

Its not a simple black and white issue, but the fact of the matter is that this isn't comparable to what Obama is doing with these tour stars, hell, HIS church doesn't even agree on these homophobes' positions.

a woman's right to choose.

All of our leading Prez candidates are trying to appeal to the religious majority in this country who demand that their "faith", whatever it is, be accomodated in the public square. That can lead to sticky situations like the one Obama is in. Hillary Clinton has her own troublesome faith-based baggage. IIRC, Edwards got into hot water with some comments he made at a debate about gay marriage.

Donnie McCloset and the Mary Mary performers are just being Good Christians, selectively interpreting the dogma as they see fit. They are no different from those in the progressive community who proclaim themselves to be True Christians, also selectively interpreting scripture to only focus on the "good" and "loving" parts while downplaying the meaner stuff.

Our candidates are in a Catch 22. They either avoid the faith community and risk being seen as hostile to religion or they reach out to it and sometimes offend core base groups like the GLBT community or atheists.

Personally, I'm with Sam Harris. It's time to rid the world of superstition and fairy tales. Enough people have been hurt by them.

If any of our candidates made speeches at UCC, UUA, or any other churches who do not judge, and made speeches about faith and acceptance, we would have less of a problem here. Having some bigots take the stage in a concert that you sponsor isn't a way to appeal to either side, its divisive and accomplishes nothing.

I have to say I agree with absolutely everything you've had to say on this issue (that I've seen, anyhow). Just thought you'd like to know!

If people would simply use it to guide their own lives rather than to try to run other peoples' lives. I'm a vegetarian but would never dream of demanding other people give up meat. Yet there are some people who try to insist I live by the tenets of their religion and/or that the government make laws according to their religious beliefs. That is wrong.

Religion is a deeply personal choice, but it is just that. A choice. And nobody has the right to force theirs on anybody else in any way, shape or form.

Just kidding... Couldn't resist...

:rofl:

NGU.

:P

DSB

I don't even believe you're a real Obama supporter anymore.No one can be this oblivious to how inane they are.