I like Edwards . . . but could Biden be the one to STOP HILLARY, war with Iran & Giuliani?

Biden has experience, he's a realist, he's tough enough that he may not have to prove his masculinity by being a uber-hawk (as some have feared Hillary might do).

Biden just put together the only bipartisan consensus in Congress regarding Iraq that actually increases the prospect of peace and withdrawal.

He has the demeanor to appeal to all sorts of people, and win in the purple states.

I don't think any Republican candidate would consider Biden anything other than a GOP nightmare (just as they would consider Edwards . . . or Clark . . . or someone like Jim Webb - - if only Webb wasn't a first term junior Senator . . . he could win all the purple states and even a few red ones).

How is Biden on Iran?

(My reason for not supporting Biden prior to now is that I have viewed him as too much of a hawk, but perhaps we're on the way to getting an even worse Democrat, or, God forbid, Giuliani.)

In Biden politically indebted to those demanding war?

I fear that both of our 2 frontrunners might actually lose the general election, and, even if they won, I wonder if they could withstand the demands of those screaming for war . Will that president have the cajones to stand up the fascists at Fox News, and GOP nuts on the hill? And will he/she have the presence to rally the country and defeat the fearmongers, so we can react to whatever crisis we face like true Americans (not trashing all our values in the process)?

If Biden could be the one to defeat Hillary (and, from there, the Republicans), and if I could be convinced he won't excalate/attack Iran, and continue the neocon quest for permanent bases throughout the world, I could hop on board.

Is Biden the one?

Or maybe you need to sit down and eat something?

What specifically do you disagree with? It's hard to poke holes in his reasoning.

As for Biden's position on Iran, he has recently said--in fact I think it was on This Week with George Steph. from last Sunday--he said that going to war with Iran would be a gigantic mistake. Biden fits the definition that John Kennedy gave himself, an idealist without illusions. His reasoning is based on objective pragmatism. He seems to have a clearer sense of what is going on than the other candidates.

Take his health care plan, for example. To tell the truth I was afraid any day now he was going to come out with a plan that would steal the day's headlines, mainly for the publicity, grandiose, but unrealistic like the others. But I should have known better. His plan is quite practical and is probably the most likely to get enacted. He would start off by covering all children and offering catastrophic coverage, the most costly part of employment health insurance, so that companies wouldn't have to continue to drop their health plans or keep raising their premiums. That's what he'd do in his first 90 days. Then he'd offer an insurance plan with costs determined by income. This would be paid by ending the Bush tax cuts on the top 1%. That's part of it. It would be best to check out his website and let him tell you, but he explains just how it would be paid for, everyone would be covered, but it wouldn't be free. I'd like everything to be free, but Joe Biden is a realist. We can't afford it. We have enough trouble with Social Security and all the other increasing costly demands we're making on our government. What gets us into trouble is when we have major catastrophic health issues. That will be covered, so we have to pay some money for our medical care, but we're protected from being wiped out. He also focuses on health maintenance and preventive health care. I think this can be done. The objective pragmatist.

It's best to check out his website and take a look at some of the video clips.

the last campaign. It could happen. It's very possible that the same people who got cold feet about Dean will get cold feet for Hillary.

so I'm not shopping for a candidate who I think can beat her. I like Biden though, just because of his own record and abilities.

but he is really the one who will give her the chase. We will be surprised in Iowa is what my radar is telling me. Edwards and O'Bama will be 3rd/4th in Iowa. Kucinich may again do some Caucus dealing and have his supporters move over into Biden's camp.

Not that I still don't love DK, but Biden is my first choice for our candidate.

I think he is the one candidate who has proven he can work with both side & we need that now more than ever. Everytime I hear Biden speak I like him more & more. I'm more excited about Biden than I was about Kerry.

Right...

No, I happen to be a Kucinich backer and I see no reason in the world why we should flock to the Biden Banner. He isn't all that impressive war-wise and I don't find him terribly progressive either.

Why don't we talk about whether Biden's backers will come running to catch the Kucinich bus after Biden drops out instead?

I view our 3 biggest dangers as:

- - (1) unending war
- - (2) destruction of our civil liberties and rule of law
- - (3) a Republican victory (which would guarantee and adverse outcome on (1) and (2)

I don't view Biden as better on (1) and (2) than Dennis Kucinich, at least in principle.

But I am not certain Kucinich would win in the general election (as I fear our current frontrunners may not)

I think Biden would defeat any Republican.

And my question now is, should I reconsider Biden? (I have viewed him as too much of a hawk, and sometimes too much of a corporatist - as per his vote on bankrupty "reform". But have I judged him too harsely? It appears to me that is basically on the right on war, civil liberties, and the rule of law. He seems, in fact, every bit as strong, or stronger, on these issues than our 2 frontrunners.)



For me, the point in his favor are these:

He seems to be a winner, a consensus builder, and a leader.

Perhaps the one who has what it will take to win a bare-knuckled brawl with the Republicans next fall, and guide us away from the abyss of uneding war and authoritarianism.

and which works to control the message which reaches most of Americans.)

want to run against. He can win the Independents vote and maybe some disgruntled republicans as well. He has very little corporate backing and has a lot of good solid answers, not just slogans.

Three decades of experience in both domestic and foreign issues, he is bound to have a few votes that any voter will disagree with, but overall his record is excellent.

One of his highest priorities is to rebuild our credibility and our friendships around the globe. He is of the school that believes we need to remain militarily strong, but primarily so we don't have to use military options. He believes partnerships work much better that the schoolyard bully approach of Bush's. He was a major player in ending the war in the Balkans. I would argue that he wants out of Iraq more than any other candidate. Why do I say this? Because he's serious enough about getting out that he made the effort to study Iraq and actually devise a plan that can work, one that can really get us out. And he even got half of the Republicans on board. It can be done and done in a responsible way.

If he was, he'd have a lot more money in his campaign coffers right now, and that's not just a cute line. We both know that that's the way it works. Yet look at Hillary. No, Biden's his own man. It's worked against him a lot of the time, but at this point I don't think he knows any other way to be.

He is a pragmatic idealist, who is capable of getting things done.

Evidently corporations aren't too fond him, as the big money is going elsewhere.

And yes, I think you have judged him a bit too harshly, imo... but I'm thrilled you are coming o\around to support him,...

It's crazy because they are so different.

I am one of those people.

I run into this more and more

business as usual with no end in sight

That's why I like them both, anyway.

Hillary will be the nominee and Giuliani will probably be president.

He's a stronger candidate than Hillary in a general election and is more qualified. What's there to stop us? Fear? Screw a bunch of Hillary fear. I love my country too much to sit back and do nothing.

If enough of us get involved, we can make it happen.

He is the only candidate out of the pack that can get things done as he has demonstrated recently. the others from the senate have just done campaigning. whereas (Like you said) has actually gotten a political solution for a peaceful withdrawal from Iraq.

reasons you cited.

I support him because of his accomplishments, experience, and who I feel him to be as a person. I've never been a sure of a candidate in my life.

If Giuliani gets the R nod, I think Biden and Clinton would be the best ones to debate him - they'd eat him up and spit him out. I'm hoping it's Biden who will be the one to deliver the blows.

and gave Hillary a spanking on Stepanopolous last Sunday over it.

she's the one who is stopping your guy. Obama.

although I have problems with his vote on bankruptcy bill and his relationship with credit card companies

Biden is not cozy with insurance and banking, otherwise he would be flush with their mony.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pres08/select.asp?Ind=F03

trying to find his interview from abc with george stephanopolous last weekend.. Also, look at these fav Biden vids of mine:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OhPG7mk8yQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhCJ6h_p0GA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6fzbvOvU18

Biden on Iran - a must see:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-526337859449397787&q=biden+iran&total=41&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=3

Here's from a speech he gave in Nov 2006
http://biden.senate.gov/newsroom/details.cfm?id=265654&&

Iran

The basic approach I’m proposing for North Korea could also work with Iran. For five years, the administration’s policy was paralyzed by a stand-off between those promoting regime change and those arguing for engagement. During that time, Iran crushed the reform movement and moved much closer to the bomb.

Now, the administration has finally gotten behind the European effort to engage Iran. That was the right thing to do, but it’s not enough. We should talk directly to Tehran. Talking would not reward bad behavior or legitimize the government. It would allow us to make clear to Tehran – and to the Iranian people – what it can get for giving up its weapons program and what it risks if it does not. Going the extra diplomatic mile makes it more likely our allies will be with us for tougher action if diplomacy fails.

Iran is not a monolith. Our greatest allies against the theocracy are the Iranian people. They admire America. But we never get our side of the argument into Iran to the people who could insist, over time, that the government change course. They never hear our voice. America, whose greatest strengths are her ideas and ideals, has become afraid to talk. It’s time to find our voice again.
-----------------------------------

I keep looking for a link where Biden addressed Israeli-Americans about how Israel needs to work with Pakistan. I just love it how he does not pander.

-----------------------------
I keep hoping that the primaries will come down to Biden v Hillary, because I am certain he would win the nomination. AND if he is our nominee, the only GOPer that may give Biden a hard time would be McCain. BUT - Biden's views are on the side of the majority of American people, where McCain's aren't.
One thing I am certain is that Biden will not take RW attacks laying down. In fact, the day I became a Biden supporter was in 2004. I caught a clip of him campaigning for Kerry. He was standing with a bunch of reporters yelling at them for their reporting of the swifties. I dropped everything and sat down and watched him in action. I have been following him ever since.

right tune about Iraq and Iran, and with passion. I do believe that the Dean/Kerry could play itself out this time in Biden's favor. I believe that he, Dodd and Richardson are all holding out to be the anti-Hillary when crunch time comes.

by the time of the NE primary. If it's Biden, so be it. I suppose the nomination will be in the bag by that time is the only problem.

by dropping any donations you can spare and blogging for him.

rethugs; HRC is certainly NOT your woman, but I believe Biden could actually sway many rethug voters and pull off a win in the General Elections in 2008.

She'll find something for Joe to do. Don't worry

Joe Biden doesn't need anyone to "find something for him to do". He's been DOING plenty for a long time and if he's not elected president, he will continue to be active in the senate.

over the many years that I have followed and supported him, I have found him to be straight forward, what you see is what you get,no bs,true to his beliefs and he respects the American voter's intelligence and right to be told the truth. He answers questions directly and does not dance all around it. You might not always like his answer but he tells it like he sees it. He is a fighter, he will not lay down and roll over.
He is not a millionaire. He is a great family man and has a great supporting family. Most of all I have found him to be trustworthy and I DO TRUST HIM.
I have supported him with my conversation, bumper sticker on my vehicle,
wearing Biden shirts everywhere,and with my wallet.

If you really want a sense of the man he is and how he became so, read his book, Promises to Keep. :patriot:

He talks clearly and directly, with amazing intelligence and knowledge.

See how she does over her next couple of terms as New York's senator.

My guys are freakin killing in the World Series.

Love them so much

I would add, the only candidates who have any chance besides Hillary, in my estimation are Obama and Edwards, and their chances are less than 10% at best. My opinion, obviously.

interest in Biden recently, and am hoping a good showing in Iowa will bring him more to the public's attention. Regardless of how it goes, it's the most interesting election run-up I've ever witnessed. Good luck to you and your candidate, and good luck to me and mine! :hi:

You must be right, of course. Also, like much of the msm, never have I seen you ever back up one of your opinions on here with any real substance.

Mainstream America has turned into an ugly direction to take and Hillary Clinton is the compass pointing the way. Mainstream is what has allow the US corporate structure to hijack our government and use it to better their profits and power. Mainstream is what created the inconvenient truth that Gore so passionately is fighting to warn us about. Mainstream is willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes so that a tiny percentage of humans can live like kings and queens of the world. Mainstream is destroying the world and all that is good in mankind. Hillary Clinton is the mainstream candidate and calteacher and others are her defenders.

I realize I'm being rather blunt, but Biden I've always respect for being blunt. So, there it is.

Sure sounds that way to me, and if it were true it would mean the end of the Party. But I don't believe it.

I have to respectfully disagree.

I'll meet ya back here when its over and we'll see who is right!

:patriot:

You are currently in:

Stage 3: Bargaining.

Prognosis is generally favorable for the patient, as patient has progressed midway through the Grief Process. Patient has a likely chance of reaching Acceptance on or around Super-Duper-Hyper-Spectacular Tuesday (February 5th.) Caution is needed, however, as Stage 4: Depression may descend at any moment; to prepare, patient should avoid all alcohol and recreational drugs (or at least cut back a little.)

I think.

:)

Koolaid anyone?

they also are big fans of having the "tail wag the dog" and not answering questions truthfully. Hopefully Americans won't be fooled YET AGAIN.

Off to the corner with you!!!:dunce:

We can make fun of each other AND ourselves.

Lucy, I want my nickel back!

I came to a Biden event in Iowa just to punch the "I saw him" card. I came away almost supporting him, but wanting to read about him first. Which I did. Then I saw him again at Harkin's Steak Fry, talking about Iraq, and straight from the heart, with such incredible simplicity, common sense, and passion that I signed up with his campaign as soon as he finished speaking.

I asked him about Iran and liked his answer. Attacking Iran would be colossally stupid, he said, and cause a constitutional crisis. He talked about it recently in Leon, Iowa, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_6mY0NSdiCo if you want to hear for yourself. (It's a four-part YouTube, but start with the first one and stay with it if you're interested.) He has talked about this a lot lately, including on ABC, and he is very clear on it. http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3756981

in Iowa.

Caucus a good one for us!

I am doing everything I can.

Great speech on the senate floor on Iraq
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v1op8vwF5UA

after Hillary and Edwards his first statement on Iran. "if they build a missile Take it out"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=m8NdYDrNbYw

better vid of, This week with George Steph...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6fzbvOvU18

Last time he was in my neck of the woods, I went to see him..but got called away for a sick child. Six people I know personally went to that same meet and greet, none of them were Biden supporters...all of them came away feeling positive about him and of the 6, five are firmly in his camp and the sixth is considering it.
Two of them went to an Obama rally a week later, and said that Obama puts on a great show...but there was no substance.
Biden is gaining momentum.

Uh, no.

Biden borrowed a couple of lines from a British politician. On many occasions Biden was open about the fact that these were lines that had already been used in the UK by Neil Kinnock, who at that time was leader of the British Labour Party. I think there was one time when he did not cite the source, and that was the one time that Dukakis' people used to beat down Biden's candidacy.

Politicians borrow lines and plans from each other all the time. There's nothing wrong with that.

What's wrong is when a candidate says something they know is wrong, because they think it is what people (or worse - corporations) want to hear.

Or when a candidate changes their position on a major issue when they see which way the wind is blowing.

Reading a lot of speeches and re-working the best ideas into your own speeches is called research.

In this case everything Joe Biden said was absolutely correct, about him being the first person in his family who had the opportunity to go to college. Calling it theft is really ridiculous.

Of course the best candidate in 88 was Al Gore. But it looks like Al's not running in 08 (unfortunately).

But I'm not holding my breath while I do. Wait!....There was this original moment....now let's see, oh yeah, Hillary refusing to apologize for her vote that Bush ended up using as an excuse to invade Iraq, but instead saying, in effect, that she'd been tricked and that she wouldn't let THAT happen again. Only....didn't she vote yea in favor of the Kyl/Lieberman bill? Yes, I believe she did. That's pretty original. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. On second thought, that's not too original either. For some reason it brings Bush to mind.

:boring:
You are just repeating bs you have heard somewhere and do not really want to know the truth. If you did you would check out his sites and learn something.:patriot:

will throw out there from time to time to disrupt a discussion. This is an old issue that was resolved long ago. Had an opponent, who later apologized, not played it up beyond reason, it would have never been an issue.

If anyone wants to judge any candidate on one misstep, then they're not likely to find anyone they can support.

over again? Is there no originality on DU? Time to broaden your repertoire.

I believe I'm speaking for ALL DUers in saying "we've heard it all before".

being brought up.

We have to listen to a RW story from 20 years ago. It's crazy.

:patriot:

you into seeing things "my way"). :hi:

I'm not decided yet, myself. But Biden certainly has the experience and the knowledge to competently handle this country, particularly WRT foreign affairs. He's also pretty outspoken, which can get him in trouble at times, but is rather refreshing, especially compared to the focus-tested polish of Hillary Clinton.

He's a very smart guy, and worlds and worlds superior to anything the GOP could produce.

and that is fine with me. I am so tired of scripted politicians, always measuring every word carefully and then end up saying a lot of "nothing". I want substance and conviction, not slogans and superficial promises.

adult enough to just admit when he/she has screwed up.

I can accept him as a candidate, but I can't accept your argument that experience is a good reason to vote for someone.

Too many people with experience have made poor judgements, and too many people without much experience have made good judgements.

mistakes. I'm inclined to forgive those who voted for the war because of the way it was presented to them, and there were SO MANY who felt it was the right thing to do.

What I'm looking to see is if those who voted this way are desirous of taking steps to rectify it.

His Iraq Federalism plan
Dayton Accords (peace in Bosnia)
Biden Crime bill
Violence Against Women Act

He also is proposing fantastic, pragmatic legislation for health care and education.

the country we need both judgment AND experience. We will not find anyone who has not made a mistake, unless it is someone who never DID anything.

that followed. More importantly, he is the man with the plan to get us out w/o leaving chaos behind. For further explanation of the circumstances around the IWR vote, I suggest tyou fin his "Meet The Pres" interview from March which you can find online.