This Obama thing is really out of hand

First, let me disclose that I don't favor any particular candidate at this time. I don't favor Hillary, who had no business going to prayer meetings with homophobes. I don't favor Richardson who didn't know if being gay was a choice. This isn't about promoting another candidate.

Second, I honestly wonder if some of you have any idea just how offensive the idea we can change honestly is. Being gay can be really tough. People can be really cruel. They can abuse you mentally, physically, and emotionally. In the guise of making you moral they can make you miserable. I will never forget one day in 8th grade. As usual in my social studies class I got picked on without mercy. For whatever reason it got to me that day and I all but lost it. I was kept after class for a few minutes to avoid being sent to the prinipal's office. It was then that he told me point blank why he let them pick on me. He was saving my soul by getting me to change. He figured if I was miserable enough I would change. So you see, this isn't some extraction to me.

I am not going to lie. A place where I felt welcome to be who I am may no longer be that place. I sure can't say I am not disappointed. There was a time in my life, seemingly forever ago, but not really; that I would have given everything I had to change. But that time isn't now and that place isn't here. I'm queer, I'm here, and no matter whom you support, get used to it.

Obama did himself no favors by giving a homophobe such a public stage, many of his supporters here have done neither him, nor them, favors with their defense of him. Thankfully, others have aquitted themselves well.

to prayer meetings with homophobes."

I think it's great. Now we see her true colors.

Flame away.


editred 4 speeling

Would that be some kind of Christian?

comes someone who can't think of any better response than to insult others on this board.

All Christians aren't homophobes. I guess maybe you don't understand that.

I feel sorry for the OP. It has to be a perfectly horrible life being condemned and tormented for something that is no one's damn business in the first place and has no bearing or effect on anyone else in the second.

But I know that a lot of times when I see an insulting post like yours I just say screw it, who cares.

SOME Christians are at fault. Not all of us.

..."all" Christians aren't anything.

It seems that in the rush on DU to call out homophobes and misogynists and racists, Christians are all too often considered fair game. We're not all crazy or delusional or filled with hate.

Attributing one attitude to "all" Christians is no better than discriminating against someone because of their race, gender or sexual orientation.

It's all bigotry.

:patriot:

Don't pit us all w/ the crazies. :-)

I don't see why she needed to join such a hateful bunch to pray. She could have prayed inside a closet and done more good that way.

Many GLBT people are Christians. Many supporters of GLBT rights are Christians.

So no, a homophobe is not "some kind of Christian".

not the Apple of a particular eye ,but the best hope for a Government ,as we knew it.

I just took a gander tonight...just tonight...and saw some things that caused my job to drop. Blatantly insenstive posts. And it still appalls me on what is supposed to be a progressive web site.

I don't know how many goddamned times we have to explain it. Being told "eh, so what?" when we express our outrage about the idea of us being "cured" and having a Presidential candidate seeming to endorse that idea...it's worse than insulting. I question the basic humanity of some of the people around this place as of late.

Thank you, dsc. I have nothing else to add to your excellent post.

A lot of these people who are basically telling you to SHHHHHUSHHHHH!!!! are so invested in the idea of President Obama that they'll walk over their own grandma, tripping over and tugging out her oxygen hose, to see that happen. They've given over their cash, their time, their public declarations of support, and now, they're seeing something they don't want to see, so they tell you to go away, shut up, and hopefully, so will their problem.

They have their eye on a prize, and not you, not anyone or anything, will dissuade them. They view any interruption on the path to the White House as a distraction by partisans who are playing for the other teams, and they don't want to have to even CONSIDER that there's real pain and anger behind this issue.

They've decided that they like Obama's stances on issues of import to them, and they believe that you, as a GLBT community member, should be so enthused by Obama's positions that you "understand" his tightrope walk and instinctively know that "he doesn't really MEAN it." And if you DARE to not go along with that way of thinking, why, YOU'RE the obstructionist asshole, you see?

I'll tell you, I have experienced PROFOUND cognitive dissonance seeing Obama going forward with this South Carolina strategy. I am still an undecided voter, and I've yet to rule most of the field out--I pretty much was liking something about all of them.

But I'm feeling a bit Q for QUEASY about Obama ever since this shit started. And I am just not understanding why he won't get off his ass and fucking FIX it--and that I find bothersome.

Where's the leadership? Where's the "That attitude SUCKS and I'm having NONE of it?" Where's the "There's NO PLACE for hate in my campaign?" He's trying to have it both ways--and it isn't working. I really think I'd respect him more if he SAID he was trying to have it both ways, instead of being a mealy-mouth about this.

That's what's behind most of these posts that are telling you to "get over it" and "get with the program." See, you're 'harshing their mellow' as the younger set says, or, in Fogeyspeak, "Raining on their parade."

Guess they'll need umbrellas!

as acceptable. It's not bigotry to them, it's just a point of view.

There's no other way to put it.

over who they are. Nice post. :hi:

I (obviously) know exactly how you feel.

I actually am coming out at work a little bit at a time. Kid saw me at pride then little by little rumor spreads. I am so amazed at today's kids. Even NC has openly gay kids and they seem to do OK.

I suggested you tell anyone who asks that you were in Durham to meet me for lunch at the Mad Hatter and a parade got in the way.

Take care.

Honestly I don't give a damn anymore. I have told a few staff members and the 5th Amendment answer to are you gay has pretty much sealed it with the students. On the plus side, I have already used my openess to try to help a gay student. I found out he had told his parents and they reacted badly so I have one of his teachers watching his work and behavior to be sure he is OK.

I truly believe that if one of the candidates said he or she was thinking about Cheney as a running mate, there are some on DU who would spend huge amounts of time, energy, and page space rationalizing, spinning, and twisting that into somehow being ok.

It's discouraging, to see what people are willing to compromise to "win."

For myself, I don't see compromising economic or social justice as any kind of a win at any time. Welcoming homophobia into a campaign, and rationalizing it as ok, is a giant step back for all of us.

You have gotten to the heart of it. I'm sorry a lot of folks don't seem to get it.
Sometimes people just don't want to admit that their beloved candidate has made a mistake.
In the age of division, it's hard to court one group without alienating another. The candidates
need to think carefully about who they get involved with.

Never mind that they'll compare you to murderers and prostitutes!!!

That was smartass-snarky of me to say, and I did it just to be a bit of a smartass.

But now I will say something serious:

I think this whole mess, painful as it may be now, might be good in the long term. I've noticed that the GLBT community in the last decade and a half or so has been very engaged politically, generous with their donations, and they've been pretty good at "settling" and "incremental steps" over the years in their quest for equal rights and justice. The old 'get your foot in the door now, more will come later' type deals.

But, really, it's the 21st Century... it's TIME. I want my cousins and friends to be able to live their lives authentically with no bullshit. It's TIME. It's PAST time.

And however ugly this business is, if it plops the issues on the table for all to see and discuss, well, maybe the act of discussion will open eyes, hearts and minds. I really think it's given Obama, and by simple observation, Obama's opponents, a wake-up call. You can't take GLBT money and then dis the community, expecting them to 'understand.' It's unkind. It's disrespectful. It's prejudicial.

This whole messy business has been a bit of an Election Year wake-up call, I think.

We'll just have to see who rolls out of bed, and who pulls up the covers and keeps snoring...

but that's another story.

Honestly, I had no opinion of the Obama thing and didn't know how homosexuals felt about it -- innocent mistake or what. I'm not even sure if Obama personally invited him. Nobody is perfect, neither that homophobic gospel singer, Obama for inviting him, or you, nor I. I can't claim that my world views are broad enough to make the right decision on every single matter, which is why I value opinions from others. The thing is, I'm not sure that one blemish justifies disassociation with an entire party which, as a whole, with the exception of a few mistakes, is the complete opposite of its opposition on many social issues such as this one.

This isn't just a passing hobby of Donnie Dorko's, it's the main floorshow.

Putting emotion and outrage aside, one really has to question Senator Obama simply on the dispassionate issue of judgment, and it's not a particularly good showing.

These are trying times; just remember your last sentence.

Etc.

"I love humanity. It's people I can't stand."

construed as a member of that group, though perhaps not so uppity.

WE ARE NOT A CURSE or something like that the other day?

Here, he even posted a picture: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3640690



I'm trying to tell you nicely, you fucked up. You pointed a finger at the WRONG GUY.

The THREAD is nasty, the poster you singled out isn't.

Take some advice, whydoncha?

He's on our side. :thumbsup:

posts calling long time gay rights defenders here frauds for bring this up. Maybe when I stop seeing long time posters who merely repeat what Obama defenders say in defense of him called racist. Maybe when I stop seeing gays called uppity for daring bring this up. Maybe, just maybe, I will stop taking that stuff personally when I don't have to take it anymore.

Yeah, I'm tired of groups of self-obsessed victims demanding that it's their turn and being willing to let the rest of us crash and burn until their particular issue is redressed, but this is not a pissy little nothing of a passing trifle. This strikes at the heart of pluralism and acceptance.

To marginalize this issue is to seriously miss the point of what coexistence is all about. It's to miss the concept of what one's solemnly evoked word is about. It's to dismiss the need for personal responsibility. It's to place oneself above reproach and beyond the gaze of the meddlesome truth.

This is not a manufactured outrage as you are implying. This is not calculated melodrama or grotesque self-indulgence; this is the staggering and spluttering response to a slap in the face. The resounding chorus of recrimination isn't just some mass flamboyancy to suck pity and cloy for attention, it's REAL. Your guy fucked up big-time on this one, and attempts to fluff it as some kind of minor issue just digs a deeper hole: it shows a true lack of sincerity in the endless pronouncements of orientation solidarity. Considering how often he's claimed this belief, this strikes deep at the heart of just what his word means.

Somehow he thought he was going to play the religion card and the race card all rolled up into one, and he got some serious blowback which he bungled like a greenhorn.

As for his supporters in this instance, many get the point, and it's to their credit, but those who don't have done him and themselves an additional disservice.

It's REAL, do you get it?

He still might be able to learn something by sitting down with them.

that 1. you're not heLping your candidate.
and 2. the more you try to downpLay this, the more we'LL remind you of its importance.

I really hope he does something soon to straighten it out. He made a huge mistake, and I wish he would realize it, distance himself from the guy, and make his own feelings known - not his political feelings, but his own. I've studied Obama for quite a while, and this just doesn't fit with what I know about him.

I'm not gay, but one of my brothers is. I've seen what he has gone through in his life, although now he is out, and quite comfortable with it. I love him dearly and I also know that he doesn't have anything to be "cured" from - he is who he is, and who he is is who I love.

I can't apologize for Obama for this, but I hope Obama does. He'll still get my primary vote, if he's still the one I think most capable of beating Hillary, but it will be more reluctantly than before. I agree that he screwed up, and should do something about it, and really I just hope he does something and fast. It's NOT the Obama I've grown to know, and I'll be really surprised if he doesn't straighten this out. I don't want THAT big of a tent.

"Embrace the Change" and "ex-gay" appear together in a politician's press packet.

And as Pam Spaulding puts it:

"The last thing a crowd of black folks who have a problem with homosexuality needs is: 1) to be "told" by the Obama campaign that a message about tolerance must be delivered from a white voice of faith, and 2) to have their beliefs confirmed that being gay is "a white man's perversion." Coming from a white pastor under these circumstances, can only be seen as paternalistic and patronizing; the shields of defensiveness will go up, the message will be ignored."

Thanks to MADem's link, I went to read several of your other posts. They were insightful, thought-provoking, and right on point. Go you!

:dem:

:blush: I'm sorry, dsc. I apologize for confusing you with someone else.

I'm glad to see your post today. I've stayed out of this up to now, but I think your message quietly and persuasively points out the extremely valid reasons why people have been upset about Obama's choice to associate himself with McClurkin. Thank you for making it.

no problemo.

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:rofl: