McClurkin at Obama event: "I tell you that God delivered me from homosexuality."

"McClurkin's words drew raucous applause from the crowd, who had lined up around the block to get into the Township Auditorium in Columbia."

That's right. EVen though we were told repeatedly, he is just one act amongst many and he'll only sing, the truth is he ended up MC'ing the event and gave a political/religious speech at the end of it.

Senator Obama, now on top of pandering bigots, it is apparent that you and your campaign are liars.

The Politics of Hope has become the Politics of Rank Deception.

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/10/29/obama-supporter-god-delivered-me-from-homosexuality/

opposite the next.

mechanism of suppressing who he really is. In the end, that will fail too.

Donnie has as recently as this year succumbed to da debil.

:puke:

it's not Like he'LL be preaching or anything. k&r

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

In all liklihood McClurkin does not believe he is bigoted. In his belief system he has been divinely cured from a moral illness. That is his stated world view and I know of no information that would reveal him to be lying about his beliefs. The best that can be said for him is that he seemingly spoke against sucular acts of discrimination against gays. Given his belief system that is the most one can honestly expect from someone with his beliefs.

But McClurkin does not need to be provided with a featured spot on a political stage that is sponsored by a Democrat who claims to understand and oppose the oppression felt by Gays and Lesbians in America in order to broadcast those beliefs. McClurkin may sincerely believe his beliefs, but some segragationists sincerely believe their beliefs also. So do many polygamists etc.

Sincerity is not an antidote to the effects of oppressive ideology, either political or spiritual. Belief systems are powerful and complex and difficult to manage in a secular and pluralist society. We co-exist with people holding many religious beliefs some of which each of us might find offensive, and to an extent we need to be able to co-exist. But we all must decide which beliefs we choose to provide amplification for and which we choose to counter. I am straight but I am saddened and sympathise strongly with gay and lesbian Democrats in particular who have been forced to watch the primaries for our party's presidential candidate turned into a stage from which McClurkin's beliefs were broadcast.

www.truthwinsout.org - Mr. McClurkin likely knows that the 'ex-gay' business is a profitable game - so that he can continue to 'serve' his 'church.'

and get some help for this fine organization!

Thanks for noticing!

That I was reading around here.

I knew that was a bunch of bullshit. Nothing but pandering to the homophobes, pure and simple, just as I knew it would be. :puke:

I'm sure that someone will come along and post something about how "hysterical" we are about this.

But how can you explain how offensive this is to those people? The "ex-gay" stuff...hearing about your sexual orientation is a "curse" and that you can be "cured". This is the type of crap one would expect to hear at a Mitt Romney event. I'm still stunned that this occurred at an event sponsored by the Barack Obama for President campaign.

Some people have posted about Obama's stance on GLBT issues. About his support for full equality. But how can you reconcile that after this episode? "Donnie", we know now, just didn't sing a couple of songs.

will never tell you that you are "hysterical". I see it 100% for what it was -- Barack Obama may as well have flipped gays and lesbians the finger. :mad:

As a woman, this whole "reaching out" to the "religious" crowd that is now so fucking popular among many of our candidates, scares the crap out of me. Because, if that crowd is not the liberal/moderate wing of that particular religion, the needs/rights of folks like women and GLBT will be the first to go. :mad:

Obama and the like are playing with fire and we are the ones who are going to get burned.

Whenever religion is given preference over human rights, we are in danger.

Whenever religion is given preference over human rights, we are in danger.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3646639

I've tried countless times to explain the offensiveness to people and they just don't get it. I'm anti-religion, I hate black people, I hate ex-gays, etc.


And there's no way for Obama to reconcile his alleged support for the LGBT community after that concert. It's obvious now where his loyalties lie.

Just deplorable.

All this on a Sunday night in the capital city of the state.

Notice a little something about that appeasement gay minister who was added to counterbalance this idiot? Whereas Donnie was the Master of Ceremonies throughout the show, this guy gets to say a prayer quickly and is gone.

And now, for the real clincher. Just when you thought it couldn't have been a stupider escapade all around, we find out this: the gay preacher is white.

The race card again, along with the religion card.

Upon edit: It gets better; apparently two black gay preachers were suggested, but they decided to go with a white one.

http://www.queerty.com/news/barack-rejected-black-gay-ministers-20071026/

I WILL NOT VOTE FOR HIM IF HE IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE.

Give me Edwards, Clinton, Kucinich, Richardson, or Biden, but not Obama.

This is a disgrace. A black man endorsing bigotry and hatred. He could have prevented McClurkin from preaching his lies, but he did nothing. I'm tired of bad Presidents, and I will not vote to continue the tradition Reagan, Bush I, and Bush II started.

Shame on Barack! :thumbsdown:

Obama has not endorsed bigotry. I am sick of Bullshit posts stating otherwise. You know by your logo you were voting for Edwards.

Hell Yes, I am calling a spade a spade. Edwards supporter trying to claim he was voting for Obama.

Why don't you just calm down and 'splain your candidates stupid decision here.

For the past several days, we've been told repeatedly that Obama was "reaching out to both sides" (as if there are ever two valid sides to a bigoted argument) and that there would be some kind of grand reconciliation on stage.

Bunch of bullshit. Now that that has been demonstrated, I'd like to hear an explanation.

At least that's what I've been hearing lately.

Reading the thread helped me to gather additional impressions of the situation.

First, as an African American, I can say that I would be extremely hurt and upset to think that someone would make light of a Civil Rights issue when they have not walked in my shoes.

Many times, right here at DU, I have been totally shocked when posters have told me to, get over it ~ don't be so sensitive ~ the intelligent and kind members of the Duke LaCrosse Team didn't mean anything ~ African Americans don't need reparations,they have enough money etc. etc. etc.

That said, I have carefully read the many threads and am trying to look at it from both sides ---

This is from one of the articles posted on this thread....

1) A September poll conducted by Winthrop University and ETV showed that 74 percent of South Carolina African-Americans believe homosexuality is "unacceptable."

MY RESPONSE to the above through AA eyes: That statement is probably sadly true but STUPID because we AA have I am sure at least 10% plus of our race that are hiding their preference totally, out to some and hiding to others or proudly saying their sexual preference.

My dear late uncle was homosexual and deeply religious. Everyone knew or guessed that he was gay but he never discussed it with us.

My love for him was/is total and I wish that he did not have to hide his sexual preference, for all those 70+ years, but that was his choice.

I went to church with him often and old beliefs have stuck in the minds of many African Americans, just as they have in the general population regarding this issue.


2)Michael Vandiver, president of the South Carolina Gay and Lesbian Pride Movement said that he was disappointed by Obama's refusal to take McClurkin off the bill, but that he hopes it will be an opportunity for new dialog.

MY RESPONSE to Michael Vandiver: I pray that this will be an opportunity for new and meaningful dialog! Half the "Christians" know good and well that they are gay or a family member is gay! They need to stop trying to be so uninformed with their head in the sand!
Some AA men, like the general population, enjoy being "macho man." They are lost in the 60's in my view.

3)"This is not a protest of Senator Obama, but rather a vigil in opposition of Reverend McClurkin and his statements on homosexuality," Vandiver said before the concert. "We're also here to show our support for Rev. Andy Sidden."

My RESPONSE: I want to believe that some things happen for a reason and I agree with Rev. edit-- I meant Rev.Vandiver and agree that there should have been protesters.

I hope that this will be a time for deep discussion and change that will benefit ALL people.

As a lesbian, I am constantly disheartened by the success of the right-wingers in driving a wedge between minority groups. They do it on purpose, because they know that if we ever truly collaborated, then the Establishment would become the minority. I long for the glorious day when human rights for ALL humans are expected and not something that we have to struggle to attain.

I am not angry with anybody today. I am sad. I am deeply sad that here in 2007 we are further away than ever from the ideals of true human unity and love. Like you, I hope that something good will come of this.

Read my post right below yours. I am the world's biggest pessimist, but I honestly, truly believe there is something very big brewing beneath the surface in the LGBT community. In all my years (30 this year, in fact) of being out and involved, I have never seen the kind of open, honest, thoughtful dialogue that's occurring right now between white and non-white LGBTs.

There's a huge silver lining in this. The only thing we need to do is keep the momentum going.

Obama is screwed -- but he unwittingly provided a launching pad for great, great things for us.

I feel the same way.

It's as if Rove sat down and decided --- "I know just what to do."

"Let's drive a wedge between minority groups and then we won't have anything to do. They will be so full of hate for each other that they won't even realize that we outsmarted them."

They win in 2008 - that would be a tragedy.

We need to outsmart them and work to blend those that yearn for JUSTICE and PEACE.

I want it to be ONE WORLD with a big tent.

A dialogue has been opened -- between LGBTs of color and white LGBTs. I see it happening on DU, and I see it in the blogosphere.

I won't pretend for one second that racism isn't a problem in the LGBT community -- which is no anomaly, no inexplicable phenomenon; racism exists in straight society, and contrary to popular belief, queers are no different from anyone else.

It's unfortunate that Obama fumbled, repeatedly, a golden opportunity to open a real dialogue with homophobes. But he did. There's just nothing more to say about it: He screwed up, enormously, and he's alienated a significant voting bloc (which includes our straight allies), and driven an even deeper wedge between two of the Democratic Party's most loyal factions -- black voters and LGBT voters.

But it has not driven a wedge between gay black voters and the rest of the LGBT community. White and non-white LGBTs are talking -- really talking -- to each other, in a way we never have before.

Of course, that doesn't bode well for anyone not in our corner; fortunately for us, and unfortunately for the bigots, I sincerely believe that this ugly debacle will galvanize the entire LGBT community -- black, white, and every other racial and ethnic minority we haven't heard much out of yet -- in a way nothing has before. It won't happen overnight, but there is no doubt that the seeds of real solidairty have been sown.

In the face of that kind of unity... Well, the 'phobes are going to know they can't play fast and loose with us "uppity gays" anymore.

For that, I am truly grateful. Too bad Obama doesn't even know how he helped the LGBT community, in a way he never envisioned -- and in a way that has damaged his credibility, permanently.

I hope and yes, pray, that you are right!

I don't see Obama damaged forever -- if that happens we will all gain nothing.

He is not IMO " the worse person in the world."

Know thy enemy and it is not OBAMA--- look in the WH and there is the real enemy.

The enemy in the WH is laughing at this entire discussion because they now have a minority group mad at African Americans because they are mad at Obama.

Politically,the Democratic party needs the African American community and they need the Gay Community.

Rove must be laughing his face off.

Nor do I see him as my enemy. But his willing blindness to the pain and damage he has caused is very much my enemy.

Obama has a great deal to learn about LGBT Americans before he can even dream of leading us -- beginning with the fact that we have extremely long memories. (Throw out the names Anita Bryant, Dan White, or even Chik-Fil-A, and every LGBT person with even the mildest interest in his or her own history will react, strongly.)

So, while there are many Obama supporters who will continue to support him, the damage he's done to his own credibility in the LGBT community is significant, and I believe irreparable.

If Obama was merely trying to "reach out," then, as someone on DU said, he overreached. But I find that giving him the benefit of the doubt, on the idea that this was simply a miscalculation and not a deliberate slap in the face to LGBTs, is a generous opinion whose popularity is shrinking rapidly. With each new revelation (and I continue to be stunned by the apparent bottomlessness of this pile of doo-doo he keeps sinking in), the feeling is increasing that ditching-the-gays was most certainly a carefully planned strategy -- which, unfortunately for Obama, resulted in enormous blowback.

The end result: He has destroyed our trust. That's going to be very difficult for him to ever regain, if he can. But before he can, he has to understand why this blew up in his face. Until he gets it, on a visceral level -- in his gut -- he can't even dream of being the "President for all Americans."

P.S. Yes, Rove must be laughing his face off -- Obama took a page right out of the Rove playbook: exploit homophobia to win votes. That works for the Republican Party, whose gay members are too cowed to do anything but thank their masters for the moldy crumbs occasionally tossed their way. Gay Democrats -- thank God -- are an entirely different breed.

You may not like what we have to say, but would you respect us if we willingly took our seats at the back of the bus, without putting up one hell of a fight?

And, as an African American I sure know what the back of the bus looks like.

Of course you should put up a fight ~ Sure beat the hell out of Obama because he "must not respect you."

If that is what you truly believe, go for it.

Do whatever it takes to destroy him as a candidate and exactly where will that get you?

I still prefer the dialog that needs to take place without the name calling and the hate.

I certainly do respect the rights of your community. I am and always have been a strong supporter of your community.

I am not thy enemy and I don't believe that Obama is thy enemy.

I would hope that you respect my right to express my opinion as well.

I still say ~ know thy enemy and thy enemy is in the WH.

And I know you know what the back of the bus looks like. Which is why I don't understand the disconnect: Would you put up with what we're asked (and often told) to put up with, from anyone? God, I hope you wouldn't!

I don't see you as my enemy either. And -- especially as one who has been an unfailing supporter of your community -- I was hoping we could have some open dialogue here.

Of course I respect your right to express your opinion. What disturbs me is that you're framing this as my wish to "beat the hell out of" and "destroy" Obama, as if I were just doing it just for kicks. This isn't a game -- this is my life we're talking about. My life depends on winning the same rights African-Americans won more than 40 years ago. I'm being told from every side that I can't have what you have, because I'm not as good as you are.

And it's not just that he "doesn't respect" me. (Hell, hardly anybody respects queers.) It's that he's shown he's willing to toss aside one of the most loyal Democratic constituencies in favor of another, presumably larger constituency.

That's just wrong. It's the same thing as saying, "Well, I like that Civil Rights Act a lot, but when push comes to shove, I'm going to side with white Southern racists, because there are more of them than there are of African-Americans."

I don't care if Obama respects me; I do care, a lot, that this may be indicative of the way he will dismiss our civil rights altogether, just for fear of pissing off a lot of gay-hating bigots.

It really is the same.

I can't tell you how to feel.

I can't tell you how to fight your battle.

African Americans are still fighting for their civil rights and one thing I have learned from that struggle....

Know who your friends are and know thy enemy.

True these are different times but the last time that I checked, minorities have more friends that are Democrats than Republicans.

The last time that I checked,my African American friends are supportive of Gay Rights ~ most of the voters that I know care and while we haven't walked in your shoes we know pain, we know what rejection feels like.

There are differences however. One is that our skin color generally tells who we are~ some of us pass but the "I'm Black and I'm Proud" is a badge of honor for the majority of my people.

We did not come this far as a race by not having a whole lot of caring,decent people of other races that fought like hell, marched into battle with us.

So,African Americans don't hate all White people. We try hard not to lump all people in a bag because we have a history of Angels of All Races that we can depend on.

Flame me if you want to --- Obama is a new leader to African Americans. And, the last time I checked,a huge majority of us LOVE Obama! Does he make mistakes, sure he does ~ So does Biden ----- Recall when he said, " Obama was a clean African American."
Wooo! We were truly coming out of our skin! We called him, wrote letters to him and many Whites/other groups were able to fight that battle with us.

Biden made a mistake the other day ~but I am not going to hate him forever. He is an important vote for Democrats and he sure ain't George Bush!

I love Sen. Byrd! I know his history but when he shakes that Constitution, I love it!

From the anger that you are expressing to me, to be honest, I'm not sure I want to enter into your battle with Obama. At first I was going to contact his office and provide my input.

I sure did change my mind on that thought! The abuse that I see raging here is more than I can take~ I'm for solutions and bringing people together.

But this situation is just too hot to handle!

Not that you care but I wish that you could see that African Americans are the perfect ones to stand beside your community.

However, when you mess with our leader and just won't bend an inch, when that message gets to the African American community, I'm not sure where your support will be.

I'm sure you want to say --- "We don't need Obama and we don't need you or your community to fight our battle."

Fine with me but I sure would love to fight along with your community and will do so in my own way because your pain is ultimately my pain if we are ever to have a decent World.

End of discussion.
PEACE

I haven't been this saddened by an end-of-the-road conversation in... well, I don't remember when.

I wish you hadn't ended the discussion. I really wanted to talk about this with you, but it takes two to communicate, and only one to end it.

Jesus... You've actually left me in tears, because you've shown me in a way no one else ever has, just how wide the divide is.

And maybe there is no bridging it. Maybe this is the way it's always going to be. I believed so differently. Well... I guess there are still some hard lessons left to learn, even at my age.

And I wasn't expressing any anger to you. Not an ounce.

Wow, this hurts. My heart just shut down a bit more, and what little flame of optimism I had left for unity and harmony is almost snuffed out.

I never have. Quit putting your words in my posts.

What I have said in the past was that I would vote for whoever the Democratic nominee was, but after this, that is no longer true.

Substitute "black" for "gay" in McClurkin's message.

Still OK?









I didn't think so.

Or are you just using the playground retort "is not"!!!

Thanks to a Hillary supporter for continuing a non-issue...

As for me, I support Obama and his steady record for not only LGBT rights, but all civil rights.

This whole episode is shitty. This whole episode is a big goddamned slap in the face to GLBT Democrats. God knows what GLBT supporters of Obama must be thinking now. This was a crass, caluculated decision to basically say "fuck you" to the GLBT community.

As it was so perfectly put in another post in this thread...fuck Barack Obama. This GLBT Democrat doesn't give a shit anymore about his words of "support of full equality".

:hug:

yup, sucks pretty bad all around doesn't it?

I never did really *get* the BarakOmania, but this is not acceptable from a so called 'progressive' candidate IMO

"I'm a gay man and I really can't understand the bizarre "gay and lesbian backlash" against Barack Obama that the article describes. Obama has run one of the most inclusive campaigns in recent memory. Mr. McClurkin is allowed his opinions and, even if I disagree with him, is also allowed to support the candidate that I support. Gays who are coming out so strongly against this are doing nothing except hurting the gay rights cause, by coming across as just as intolerant and hateful as the people we are battling against. Listen to the message McClurkin is giving and please, get off your high horses. Obama is the best hope for the advancement of all civil rights in this country. By being so up in arms about this, you are just making all gays look petty and spiteful. That's another added prejudice against me that I don't need, thank you.

Posted By Dallas, CA : October 29, 2007 1:28 am

Bullshit post reposted with bullshit intent.

BUSH but that doesn't mean I am going to "see the light" become a fucking REPUBLICAN and shut the fuck up just because some DUMB ASS, Uncle Tom gay dudes out there like him! :crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

I'm "coming across as just as intolerant and hateful as the people 'we' are battling against," huh? I'm "making all gays look petty and spiteful," huh?

And MY actions are making life harder for you?

Listen to the world's smallest violin.

:nopity:

This is a CIVIL RIGHTS ISSUE. For EVERYONE. Including GLBT CIVIL RIGHTS. Obama is a non-issue at least as far as I am concerned. Let Obama get his votes from religious bigots. He's not going to get one from me.

:P ;)

That is all.

This is disgusting.

This issue must be addressed, now, openly and without equivocation by every candidate. Where do you stand on equal rights? You can't be sort of equal, you can't be kind of equal - you either are or you're not. Where do you stand? For equal rights or not for equal rights? Every candidate must answer that question with no hedging. We, each of us, must answer that question. It will let everyone know who we are, and we will know who everyone else is...

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2138551

If someone had said that being black was a curse, you can bet your ass Obama wouldn't have kept him on and told us it was for the sake of "dialogue."

Hypocrisy.

If this is true I'll be the first to say that I was wrong in believing that this guy was just going to peform. If I had known he'd be saying shit like this I wouldn't have been so ambivalent about this whole ordeal.

I've lost a lot of respect for Obama now.

Oh, and the supposed "reconciliation" that would take place on stage, allowing "dialogue to move the conversation forward?" Here it was:

Sidden is the white, gay pastor added to the concert bill as a last minute compromise by the Obama campaign. Sidden's appearance was notably brief and anti-climactic: He said a short prayer to the auditorium at the very beginning of the program, when the arena was only about half full, and then he left.

Initially I thought it was a random blog post because the article was in blog format - so that lead me to believe that the info might be suspect.

But upon further inspection it's an entry by a CNN producer at the event. So much for that speculation.

.....Although a small demonstration led by the South Carolina Gay & Lesbian Pride Movement had gathered across the street from the concert venue, they were dwarfed by the crowd of black Gospel fans and Obama supporters who turned out to see the performance.

Meanwhile, Obama staff were inside and outside the building, working the crowd and trying to register new voters.

Nearly all of the African-American concert-goers interviewed by CNN expressed support for McClurkin. Some referenced the First Amendment, saying McClurkin had the right to say what he pleased. Others agreed with McClurkin and said that homosexuality is a choice. Several more invoked the Bible and said homosexuality is simply wrong.

A September poll conducted by Winthrop University and ETV showed that 74 percent of South Carolina African-Americans believe homosexuality is "unacceptable."

Michael Vandiver, president of the South Carolina Gay and Lesbian Pride Movement said that he was disappointed by Obama's refusal to take McClurkin off the bill, but that he hopes it will be an opportunity for new dialogue.

Obama, while not present, appeared on a videotaped message to the crowd, saying, “The artists you’re going to hear from are some of the best in the world, and favorites of Michelle and myself.”

McClurkin said during the concert that he had been introduced to Obama by Oprah Winfrey..........

on the campaign

as I understood that McClurkin would only be singing. This went too far. Obama needs to make an immediate statement of strong disagreement with the views that were promoted here.

but I would still vote for him if he were our candidate. From all I've heard he does not share McClurkin's views and is pro-gay rights.

I still believe that a strong Democratic Congress with a Democratic Administration is the best opportunity to further equal rights for gays.

(other than the obvious homophobia of McClurkin) is that Obama seems to be rewarding McClurkin's (self)hatred with publicity and "raucous" applause. With this man's MCing this event Obama strengthens his ties to those who believe in treating those poor, unfortunate gays as Second Class Citizens who need to be "delivered".

I must admit that I wasn't a strong Obama supporter to begin with, but this just really seals the deal. It would be very difficult for me to pull that lever for him if he were the Nominee. And if he were to do an about-face and do a LGBT event, one would have to question his sincerity. Or perhaps he's just like every other g*ddamn politician and saying whatever in the h*ll he has to -- Politics of Hope be damned! -- to get those votes.

Several of my gay friends are now wondering if the recent donations they sent Obama can be returned and are placing phone calls today to his Campaign Office to find out. They're THAT upset!

Congrats Obama....you have officially jumped the shark, shit the bed, screwed the pooch, etc.

So nice to see our "serious" Democratic candidates associated with the 1/2 Hour Bigotry Power tour.

He's obviously going after a different crowd. So what? He doesn't get our support and we'll all see how he does in the end.

What is this shit? He's from the "ex"-gay movement, which says it all.

:grr:

Yay God!

:puke::puke::puke:

I thought he was supposed to be so smart.

Oh well, buh-bye, Barak. :hi:

...I would say that his subsequent attempts at "damage control" just failed miserably. The contrast of Mclurkin's very visible role and his overt comments concerning homosexuality, with a gay white minister tagged onto the program as a muted opening "warm up", seems only to have made things worse.

"private" PIX of little Donnie? If so, NOW is the time to "bring 'em on!" :evilgrin: Honestly, a compromising photo would sooo make my day...

http://claycane.blogspot.com See: Thursday October 25.

WARNING: The interview is graphic.

That's a scream.

La Donnie's a big ol' power bottom!!

I skimmed a lot. Power bottom? :hide: More information than I needed. ALL I needed to know was that Donnie's "celibacy" is contested. Been in the music bid for DECADES. Been there and seen all that up-close-and-personal. You'll forgive me if this vicious, hypocritical, hyper-religious PANDERING to those who would attack my loved ones and their EQUAL CIVIL RIGHTS chaps my skinny old crone's black ass. ;-)

:loveya:

This is not surprising. I'm sure that the information will be making headlines soon. Not.

I DO NOT want Hillary!!!

But, I have to say, I'm so disappointed, and I am hoping Edwards will get the nomination, by some miracle...

If the first voting state was a place like California, Obama couldn't get away with pandering to the homophobic crowd. Unfortunately, aligning himself with the homophobes in South Carolina will probably help him according to this article. I find this all incredibly discouraging.

a three-ring circus. I know nothing about this McClurkin fellow, but shouldn't there have been some vetting before allowing him on? I will not trash-talk Mr. Obama about this. He is not my choice but I feel he is a decent person and has been blind-sided. This is politics as usual and is the third ring. When the political shennanigans begin civility ends. The media are the only ones who benefit from this. I suppose it is inevitable that candidates from the same party trash each other but I feel it defeats the purpose of running in the first place. They should be running FOR something--not against one another. Go ahead, call me naive but this could get worse before it gets better.

I'd say that this was stage-managed from the beginning. Obama went down to South Carolina and reached out to homophobes.

But I am beginning to think you are right...

The only conclusion I can come to is that it was a calculated decision to pander to the black evangelical vote. Therefore, BHO must wear this himself.

And his campaign chose not to.

I agree...this is a purely calculated decision. This isn't some "mistake" anymore.

and whether McClurkin was vetted or not, Obama had plenty of time to disassociate himself from him by removing him from the tour. Instead, he refused to listen to the pleas of the LGBT community, and then downplayed the role this guy was playing. The whole thing stinks.

Obama has flubbed this entire episode. It just keeps getting stinkier and stinkier.

The results are toxic. ;-)

At the beginning of his campaign I heard the comment "He is not black enough" "He does not understand the fabric of this country" etc. It got my attention but I did not fully understand it. I started really, really listening. I wanted Obama to be my candidate but something didn't seem right.

Then he began to talk about the early boomers. He told us to "get over ourselves". He told us to stop fighting the battles of the 60s. I was not sure if he had a tin ear or it was deliberate. Something didn't seem right.

If you were listening closely (as I was because I am in that group he seemed to have a problem with) it became very evident that he has issues with his parent's generation. Then he skipped the AARP debate and convention and I became certain that the generational war separation thing he was doing was no accident.

I came to fully understand those earlier comments that he does not understand the fabric of this country. He does not feel the "movement" politics of this country. He does not understand that those earlier boomers (and older) made choices between going along with something that was wrong and choosing to fight for change. That fighting and those changes have benefited him greatly - he doesn't seem to get it.

My ox was being gored and he could no longer be my candidate.

And now his gay problem. He setup this separation between gays and fundamentalists. It is not just a campaign strategy - it is who he is. Now he is goring the ox of a whole new group - a second group I am a part of.

He is the opposite of inclusion.

His convention speech was just a bunch of words and not who he is.

Wedge Politics: It's Not Just For Republicans Anymore.

acting poised and rubbing ointment on the Democrats broken hopes. he didn't actually say anything but it was great theater to watch. What a magnificent and spectacular implosion.

But then again, we're just a bunch of hysterical homos so who cares about what we think?

I have been leaning strongly toward Sen Obama....but the mishandling of this whole situation is cause for alarm.

:sarcasm:

And chalked it up to a campaign error he was having trouble resolving...which is why I haven't jumped on the bandwagon blasting him for this...

But if he doesn't come out forcefully against these comments it would be hard to conclude that he wasn't pandering to the prejudices of a group in order to get their votes...

Fairly disturbing actually...

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Barack, I'm a donor and a supporter, but you have to do something about the last 30 minutes of that concert last night. I've been doing my damndest to defend you in the blogs everywhere, but I am wear and this is getting crazy. Please address this error in judgement NOW. Where's that new Rapid Response guy the campaign picked up. As a donor and a supporter, I expect something to be done. NOW.

:silly:

:puke:

This blatant bigotry and pandering to such blatant bigotry goes AGAINST EVERYTHING ALL Democrats believe in....Civil Rights and Human Rights.

For days now I've been saying in various threads that Obama's campaign is finito....and it IS....he's toast, stick a fork in him.

You can bet that the McClurkin filth was filmed and recorded secretly by "another" campaign....personally it needs to be incorporated in ads to hit Obama upside the head with....he's never going to recover from hitching his caboose to the McClurkin POS.

The Politics of Hope became the Politics of Deception and then that became the Politics of Bigotry and the Politics of PANDERING to Bigots.

:puke:

That's what he said to show himself as a bigot. You are known by the company you keep. Obama chose to lie down with the dogs and now he has to get up with the fleas.

but the "delivering" from homosexuality is the same formula as Coulter's "Jews must be perfected" line. It implies a wrongness in the original state homosexuality or jewishness. Why accept one bigotry and not another, even if it comes from someone who is ex-*? By giving a platform to bigotry is to own that bigotry and Obama must deny it or accept it. He can pretend neutrality, but that is acceptance by default.

I can't believe that Obama's people made such a mistake. *sigh*

Well I am glad that I was a kucinich backer.

Maybe God delivered Larry Craig from homosexuality. Maybe God just forgot about those bathroom urges.

I have to say that this whole controversy is ridiculous. The guy DOES NOT believe in discrimination in the law. This is like having someone who is personally opposed to abortion, but thinks it should be safe and legal perform at the concert.

The real problem here is that he believes something that is so ridiculous that it is simply beyond our ability to actually debate. If he believed that we should discriminate against homosexuals under the law we could have a rational and reasonable discussion about the science of homosexuality, of freedom in a free country, and of the real basis of morality. But if you accept the concept of there being an omnipotent omniscient supernatural god as being reasonable, then the idea that he did actually intervene and turn McClurkin NOT gay is just as reasonable of a conclusion.

If he believes god did this to him, there is no rational or reasonable way to argue with him if you accept the idea of an omnipotent omniscient supernatural god. The real problem here is the crazy ideas that religion and faith give cover.

I'm glad you think you are certain that he opposes discrimination against LGBT persons, but anyone who proclaims in public that "God delivered" him from homosexuality, like it was the plague or a cancer...I'm pretty sure this guy takes a dim view of the civil rights of the LGBT community.

And no self-respecting Democratic candidate should be within 1000 feet of this bigotry.

Unless you know something that I do not the only basis we have by which to judge what he believes about discrimination is what he actually said, and he said explicitly that he does not believe in discrimination. The fact that he is supporting Obama would also seem to indicate that he does not believe in discrimination under the law. There are plenty of candidates he could have supported if he was looking for that.

To just make a broad assumption about a person based on one crazy metaphysical belief, and to make this judgement despite evidence to the contrary, seems more akin to the definition of bigoted: "obstinately convinced of the superiority or correctness of one's own opinions and prejudiced against those who hold different opinions."

We could trade quotes all day long from the mysterious and confused Rev. McClosetCase....you say he opposes discrimination against gays and lesbians, I counter with a quote where he calls homosexuality a "curse" and an "addiction". Round and round we go...

If you don't see how hateful and insulting the comment "God delivered me from homosexuality" WHICH HE SAID TWO DAYS AGO, is, then there's really little else for us to discuss.

It's amazing the hoops people will jump through to stick up for this nasty fucking BIGOT in support of their precious Obama.

Obama seemed like a good guy.

Sad to see he's already lost this primary. Seems like he'll pander to anyone, including homophobes, to get votes. Nobody forced him to do it.

I wonder if he thinks there are more Democratic homophobes in America than Gay people?

...and that he'd step on the crank because of that. Man, did I get flamed for that. Extra-Crispy Riqster.

And now, I will confess that I was wrong.

He's not just inexperienced. He's a stupid fucking homophobe too.

And I believe it shows that his reaching out has gotten to the point where he's naive. Didn't the campaign do any background checking?

Wouldn't Obama's voting record shed more light on his stance re: civil and equal right more than an entertainer?

in a state that polls show is majority "unaccepting of homosexuality" shed light on his willingness to throw his civil rights record in the dust bin and pander for those anti-gay votes?