View on Obama From a Very Practical Gay Man

1. Disclosure: I am a 43 year old gay man, partnered for almost 20 years, with 2 kids. At this point, I tend to not be very easily offended. If anything, on DU at least, I have caught some flack for not being offended enough by things like the Snickers commercial. I also don't mind some jokes that have been quit unpopular on DU. I have never said I think DU is homophobic or anti gay, or that I feel less welcome here because I'm gay.

2. On the issues: I don't expect any candidate at this time to come out as pro same sex marriage. I'd like it, but I don't expect it. I am very happy to have candidates come out for civil unions. Though I think they are not really fair or equal, and not even legally tenable in the long run, I think they mark progress and (most importantly) address the real needs of people living right now. I also think it's smart politics.

3. On the politics: I understand that politics involves a lot of compromise (see point 2, above). I further understand that it's about coalitions and to win necessitates rubbing shoulders with some people you disagree with - even strenuously. I don't have a significant purity-meter on politics for these reasons. I expect almost every candidate to have the support of at least some people I find loathsome. I can live with that.

4. On Obama: I think Obama is a very charismatic, sharp witted, very well spoken and basically decent. If he is the Democratic nominee I will vote for him without reservation, for the reasons I note above. That said:

I have completely lost respect for Obama. I did not expect him to go out to the religious community and say "Ra Ra I am For Same Sex Marriage".

I could have lived with the neutral quite well enough. It's not as if the only gospel singer available to him was this bigot who was going to spew anti gay garbage for half an hour in an Obama rally. Let's be clear: he didn't need a gay pastor to maintain my good will. He didn't need to argue for gays to this group. He could have just left it alone. But there's a difference between being supportive of gays, being neutral and supporting something that is downright offensive.

This wasn't engaging the anti-gay people - there was no engagement. There was no challenge. It was fanning the flames, and with Obama's implicit endorsement.

I don't think Obama is a homophobe. But I think he tolerates homophobia more than I think is acceptable. This is the man who said Imus should be fired, and that he wouldn't have anyone on his staff who held such views about race. So he drew a line in the sand. But the line for gays is a little further away, it seems. He didn't fire McClurkin, or even express regret for giving him a platform to air opinions that are every bit as offensive as Imus's.

The reason I described myself in some detail above is because I would like those who don't understand the reaction of gays to this event to realize that this isn't an extremist, absolutist or purist position. I am, if anything, too willing to compromise on these matters. So if it bothers ME this much, it has to be pretty damn bad.

As I said above, if Obama gets the nomination I will vote for him. But I will not lend my enthusiastic support, and I will not put a dime of my money toward his campaign. I'll focus my attention more on races closer to home.

I don't hate Obama, I don't think he's evil. But in terms of my support for him as a potential president, he's all but dead to me.

in a second if he entered the race.

your community is supporting Hillary anyway as i predicted a few days ago on a post hear.

Damn, the secret is out!

Nobody ever fills me in about these things. Now I have to go out and get a Hillary 4 Prez shirt and everything.


Somebody has really dropped the ball here and I'm not happy.

I've been told that I'm a secret Hillary campaign operative and false gay with false outrage so many times this past week I've caught myself wondering if maybe Hillary isn't so bad after all - they must be getting to me!

But it seems that Teh Gays are required to support Hillary so I either have to support Hillary or turn straight. Hillary it is.








:P

I've been missing all the duglubut meetings. I'll have to find out where they are.

It seems the announcements have been left off my copy of the Agenda.

and so their usual iPhone pink alerts were delayed.

Obama is no longer on The Agenda. On to J.K. Rowling. :evilgrin:

The latest gay ones have been delivered.

to anyone. Do you?

Obviously I don't take the umbrage with obama over this that many of the gay community do but,Holly crap!

I don't think Obama should pander to the gay community either but respecting their beliefs and acknowledging their concerns isn't to much to ask is it?

He has some fence mending to do here to be sure and he needs to get busy and do it.

I don't believe for a second he is a homophobe but I do think he handled this situation poorly. I am not sure however there was any way he was going to pull this faith and family tour off without offending someone in the democratic party.

to someone. I don't get it.

I think he could have done the same rally with a different emcee and neither pander to, nor offend, gay voters.

:shrug:

I think the gospel community is heavily weighted to the homophobic side to begin with. And i am not sure you can pull an event like that off without having some homophobes on stage at some point. But I definitely think Obama could have and still can do better with his response to mclurkins BS

Also, McClurkin was introduced with a video of Obama calling him "my favorite singer."

Does that make me a gang banger? or mean that I think gang banging is right?

I also like a lot of mel gibsons movies but I also think hes batshit crazy on top of it.

Just saying because you like someones art doesnt mean you hold thier life values.

Idon't care if you watch Mel Gibson movies.

If you had a rally and gave Mel Gibson an audience to air anti semitic views, I'd fault you for that.

Something to the effect that Obama said mclurkin was his favorite singer as if thats horrible in and of itself.

I understand your point though. But again I think this thing was heading for controversy no mater what he did. Someone in the Dem party was going to be pissed off by this thing.

And you should fault me for that and by all means take him to task on it. I am not in anyway saying this was handled well.

:-)

I dont know. If my target audience were big fans then perhaps.

It would largely depend on the circumstance.

This is a big disappointment to many of us - queer and straight - who hoped that Obama was really something new and progressive. Instead, turns out he's just like all the others.

Quite a few of which tend to be homophobes. The singer he chose to entertain them who is wildly popular to them hapens to be a homophobe as well. The idea that Obama was specificaly trying to garner homophobe votes by inviting one of the countries top gospel singers to a faith based event is ludicrus and completely paranoid.

for a political fundraiser you were organizing or holding for yourself?

Edit: I guess another poster beat me to the very same question - didn't read through all posts!

some point. But giving them a forum to air an explicitly homophobic message is a different thing.

Its so prevelent in the religious comunity that it practicaly cant be avoided. Not that he tried very hard to avoid it.

He was playing with fire here and he got burned at least in the gay comunity maybe he can make sufficent ammends maybe he cant. That ball is in obomas court at the moment. I hope he does the right thing.

If someone is known to be explicitly homophobic, don't give them a speaking role.

If you have to give someone a speaking role, be very clear about what they're going to say.

Having worked for almost 2 decades in a field that involves public speakers and sometimes sensitive issues, I'd say this is not all that hard. Occassionally despite your best efforts and plans, things go wrong. But in this case I don't think even the basic preparation meets expectations.

like I said before I dont think it was handled well at all. However I think something is bound to happen at such a faith based event no matter who you chose. It doesnt excuse the obama team for not keeping a tighter handle on the situation. They could have done way better.


I hope he performs an act of contrition that is sutable for you I really do. I totaly understand the hurt feelings over this. And I totaly respect your decision not to support him because of it.

say Hillary supporters

The hillary suporters snarkiness is so much more politicaly astute its amazing!

"I support repealing the provision of DOMA that may prohibit the federal government from providing benefits to people in states that recognize same sex marriage. I strongly support ensuring people in stable, long-term same sex relationships have full equality of benefits, rights, and responsibilities,"
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0607/Hillary_repudiates_DOMA.html

Obama does.

How about you let Obama's supporters speak for themselves.

I'm a little disturbed that Hilllary's camp seems to have embraced the same people they will throw under the bus when they are done with them. You KNOW that's coming.

But now I'm coloring things with MY blatant agenda.

Where gay DUers who could care less about Hillary were told repeatedly by quite a few Obama supporters here that they had an agenda or that their anger was selective because they didn't decry every candidate.

It was a bunch of bullshit and it continues even on this thread.

Does he (or someone in his campaign) think that this tactic will bring in a hord of anti-gay marriage voters? As a tactic, it will never work. Worse than that, it is reprehensible to resort to this type of politics.
Like you said, he could have just stayed neutral on the issue. This crossed a line that should not have been crossed.

K&R

I totaly support your position. It doesnt rise to the level for me of not supporting him by any means should he win the nomination. But I totaly respect your feelings of it doing so and completely understand why you feel that way.

Obama did come out and say he did not agree with mclurkins veiws on gays from an article about it.

"His inclusion had drawn public criticism from gay activists who wanted Mr. Obama to cancel his appearance. Mr. Obama did not, but issued a statement a few days ago saying he strongly disagrees with Mr. McClurkin’s views and that he has tried to address what he called the homophobia among some black voters."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Its not enough I know and He absolutlely needs to confront this more strongly than he has. I hope he does so because he doesnt deserve to be labeled a bigot. He has fought for gay rights in the past and I am quite sure he will continue to do so.

Thank you for the post though. It is honest and well taken at least by me.

Yet he openly embraces homophobes and has utilized them to further his campaign. If that doesn't make him a homophobe that makes him, at the very least, a hypocrite. I am thoroughly disgusted with him and can not trust him any more.

I like the way you explain your pragmatism and understanding of politics. And having said that, you are able to express what makes Obama's acceptance of McCurkin UNacceptable.

gave a heads up to anyone connected with the Obama campaign connected to the event. I would suspect he was reacting to the criticism he received leading up to the concert--well deserved criticism. McClurkin is a terribly midguided individual. It is very sad, actually.

I wonder if McClurkin thinks children who make fun of bald men deserve to be eaten by she bears, as well.

The campaign was told, time and time again, that this was an abominable choice for entertainer. He heard this from LGBT groups across the board, including the HRC. These activists basically laid out what this "ex-gay" clown was going to do and the damage he would wreak.

Obama ignored all of this and welcomed this clown to his campaign with open arms. The campaign may have been taken aback by the furor, but they can't credibly say they were surprised.

You continue to ignore the statement from religious and LGBT leaders who understand Obama's views on equality and civil rights for all so that you can continue your attack.

Edited to ad link to the statement:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/10/25/obama-campaign-releases-o_n_69892.html

almost as egregious an insult as giving the "ex-gay" clown a microphone and an audience.

"At the same time, a great many African Americans share Pastor McClurkin's beliefs. This also cannot be ignored."

"At the same time, while Obama has said that he 'strongly disagrees' with Pastor McClurkin's comments, he will not exclude from his campaign the many Americans including many in the African American community who believe the same as Pastor McClurkin."

TRANSLATION: I won't forsake bigotry and clownish homophobia in my lusty pursuit of those sweet, sweet primary votes.

The men and women who signed their names (and reputations) to that bullshit should be ashamed of theirselves.

They relerased a statement after the fact saying (original in all Caps):

"MCCLURKIN DOES NOT WANT TO CHANGE GAYS AND LESBIANS WHO ARE HAPPY WITH THEIR LIVES AND HAS CRITICIZED CHURCH LEADERS WHO DEMONIZE HOMOSEXUALS,"


Does Obama think we are idiots?

Im sorry but since when do born again christians think any gay person is happy? They dont - they believe gays are not capable of being happy without turning to Jesus and away from their true sexuality.

It was clearly a huge roll of the dice by Obama to just assume that he wouldn't use this opportunity to spew his homophobic garbage, and sure enough, he took that opportunity and ran with it! I think it just showed really atrocious judgment by Obama, and I DON'T want someone with such poor judgment, specifically regarding individual rights, in the Oval Office.

"But I think he tolerates homophobia more than I think is acceptable"

The GLBT community was all but screaming at Obama about how offensive this person was. Barack Obama was FULLY informed about what kind of person McClurkin was. And yet...nothing. I agree....Barack Obama tolerates homophobia far more than IS acceptable. And I think that if he wants to begin to think about mending fences with the GLBT community, he might want to think long and hard about his tolerance for homophobia.

You have summed up your opinions on this issue, and your reasons for them, in a thoughtful and respectful manner. As a gay man, I completely share your point of view and I believe you stated it so much more eloquently than I ever could have.

Thank you for posting this.

K&R

the die is cast. He lost my support when Donny warbled his first ditty on that stage.


kick and recommend

Unfortunately I didn't read much about this situation, so never heard Obama's explanation. Was he somehow in the dark about this man's feelings? If not, I can't imagine what Obama was thinking.

n/t

I suspect he had no idea that guy was going do that 30 minute spew.

After the spew, he had to make a quick choice - disavow or defend a guy he had chosen to be a surrogate. A politically astute, sure-footed person would have thrown the guy overboard. A person who has political cement scuffies on his tootsies is unable to think fast enough and winds defending the indefensible.

My view of what I will do if Obama were to win the nom is the same as yours.

I'm an Obama supporter that knows he will fight as hard as anyone for gay rights.

I don't agree with his decision to keep McClurkin, and I don't agree with his position on gay marriage, but I know he is fair.

I do hope that many in the GLBT community support him if he becomes the nominee; mainly because of his voting record on gay rights.

when he's not busy hiring "ex-gay" clowns who have likened homosexuality to a "curse" to speak for him at campaign events and spew homophobic filth.

Obama's record on LGBT issues is severely undercut by this titanic insult.

Still no outrage.

I don't expect any campaign to be free og homophobes.

But neither do I expect the candidate to give them a speaking role in the campaign to air explicitly anti gay opinions.

Did you read what I wrote in the post you responded to?

Sorry. Don't buy it. If they were on Obama's campaign, you'd be hammering on them too. Darrell Jackson spoke against gay marriage on the floor of the SC Senate, no problem with him either. It's partisan hackery, not geniune outrage.

anti gay legislation. But I don't expect anyone tosay no to their votes or their $.

If Hillary had them voice anti-gay views at her rally, I'd have a problem with that too.

or perhaps I just didn't understand your reasoning.

You say you understand that "to win necessitates rubbing shoulders with some people you disagree with - even strenuously."

So what's the difference here? You never explain that.

McClurkin was the featured emcee and entertainer at this event. McClurkin's entire reputation is based on his campaign to "save" gays. As emcee, he used the opportunity to promote his views.

Obama could easily have chosen another entertainer to perform and emcee. Instead, he appears to have gone out of his way to feature a person whose public persona is built around homophobic bigotry.

But, no...McClurkin had to go and thank God for "saving" him from homosexuality. After some half-assed protestations of how he wasn't a bigot.

You can't see this whole episode as anything but Obama pandering to bigots. And tactitly condoning said bigotry. Again...Obama, after knowing perfectly well what kind of person McClurkin was, refused to dump him.

rally. And it's inconceivable that the Obama staff didn't know that.

even get along with, homophobes and giving them a forum in your campaign to air their bigoted views.

McClurkin took it upon himself to discuss his views at the end of the show. Perhaps Obama's staff should have had better control over the event since it was in their name, but I think describing this as Obama giving McClurkin a forum to speak is just incorrect.

Obama's campaign said that McClurkin would just sing, but he turned out to be the Master of Ceremonies. He introduced each act. He talked between acts. Of course he talked about his campaign to "save" gays. Obama's people had to know this would happen.

warned Obama that, by giving this "ex-gay" clown a microphone, he was propping up exactly the kind of homophobic filth that was spewed on that stage.

The campaign knew what they were doing. Obama knew what he was doing. The clown Donnie McClosetCase knew EXACTLY what he was doing.

I happen to believe Obama and his campaign when they say they didn't know about McClurkin's views and didn't know what he'd say at the event.

Perhaps if this was your favorite candidate, you'd give him the benefit of the doubt as well. Or maybe I've just drunk too much of the Kool-Aid. I'd probably be saying the same thing as you if this was a Clinton or Edwards event.

You might say they didn't believe the warnings - but they were warned.

And it is a VERY poor showing on their patr to put a loose cannon on stage with a micophone if they DIDN'T know what he was going to say.

McClurkin is famous for one thing - his campaign to "save" gays. It's what he's known for - no way did the Obama campaign staff not know this. No way.

I know I'd never heard of him. As I said before, the man's career was as a gospel singer, for which he won a Grammy.

McClurkin is well-known among folks who keep track of hate groups and homophobic organizations. He is a gay man who claims to have been "saved" from the evils of homosexuality by prayer. He claims to have been molested as a child and that "made him gay."

He continues to have sexual relationships with other men while claiming to be "cured" of homosexuality. His gospel singing is the vehicle for his message.

I don't think it's fair to expect everyone else to have the same knowledge about McClurkin, much less to assume they must have known it.

but, sadly, only for the ignorant. Obama didn't know who McClurkin was. Yeah, right.:eyes:

There's really no excuse for him not knowing.

and if you're so gullible as to believe that the campaign knew nothing about McClosetCase's clownish homophobia AFTER THE HEAD OF THE HRC SPOKE WITH OBAMA HIMSELF ON THE PHONE ABOUT THIS (link below), I have some nice bridge property in Brooklyn I'd like to interest you in.

http://www.hrcbackstory.org/2007/10/human-rights--1.html

By the way, I'm undecided....well, I know now I will not support Obama in the primaries

Furthermore, Obama offered no apology afterwards that I'm aware of.

If I'm wrong please let me know.

He just took it upon himself to do that. Some of the news reports used the word emcee, but not in an offical capacity. He was just introducing the acts, nothing more. It wasn't until the very end of the show that he took over and addressed the controversy.

on stage with a microphone, especially after you've been warned, and an even worse showing to offer no apology afterwards.

The entire event sounds like it was one big homophobic gay-bash.

I think he got what he wanted out of this rally.

Captain Kangaroo: Okay, this man introduces all of the acts, he wears red..

Mindy: A clown!

Captain Kangaroo: < slaps podium > He introduces the act! "Ladies and gentlemen, children of all ages.." Top hat, microphone!

Mindy: I don't know! I can't think of anything!

Captain Kangaroo: He INTRODUCES the act!!




http://snltranscripts.jt.org/84/84pjackpotwad.phtml

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Thanks for the laugh...one my favorite sketches in SNL history!

Pure comic genius...from Martin Short's albino child star casualty to Christopher Guest playing a fey Indian to Billy Crystal's Sammy Davis Jr. One of the greatest sketches ever.

off the stage. Like that was going to happen.:eyes:

Obama offered him the stage. McClurkin is a preacher. He used the stage to preach his bigotry and homophobia. Obama and his handlers weren't taken by surprise, caught off guard, tricked, or lied to~~~they knew exactly what they were doing. If you befriend a snake, don't be surprised if it bites you.

Even on this board, it's reassuring to find that measured and relatively moderate views abound.

In the end, this was a playing of the race and the religion card to sleaze a big bloc of voters wholesale. It was classic greasy politics to carve off a huge chunk of an opponent's supporters in the proverbial fell swoop, but it backfired in a big way.

That's the problem with buying in bulk: you may get a hell of a per-item price, but sometimes you don't know what to do with the shipping container and the rats that come with it.

This whole operation was so badly handled it just boggles the mind. Step by mistep, it couldn't have been handled any worse if it was deliberate sabotage.

I have been scratching my head about the motivation behind this for a couple of days. On the surface, it made no sense to invite McGlurkin and it must have been a mistake by his People. But there was never any attempt to walk it back or pull him off the stage. In fact, he fanned the flames by making the guy emcee, Ok so it was intentional....why?

Obama is clearly not anti-gay. But he picked a fight and then did not engage those who were upset.


I am drawn to the fact that the audience for this rally was largely religious and largely african american. Black pastors have problems with the gay lifestyle. but it is different than their white fundy brethren like Dobson and the late Falwell. This "fight" seems to me tho be a show of independence from a traditional democratic constituency as a way of currying favor with a small group a black pastors in South Carolina.

My honest belied is that this was about endorsements and organization building in South Carolina ahead of that state's very important primary. Blacks make up 50% of the Democratic electorate in the state and black ministers are organizational linchpins.

It is regrettable that his people felt it necessary to do what was done...but I suspect that is what was actually going on. SHould the gay community nullify his candidacy on that base? That is not for me to answer. But I suspect most are ultimately like you.

I understand this in political terms, and I am also strongly anti-Hillary. So on that basis, while I can not condone it, I can understand it and am willing to give him a one-time pass because it is "just politics", But if he continues with stunts like this I am going to have to take another look around.

Even it if was a mistake....the outrage certainly made it difficult to do a mea culpa.

I am respectfully and seriously suggesting you stop using that term. Most gay people consider it offensive and demeaning. I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt that you didn't know that, but now you do. If you wish to discuss it, please PM me - I'm willing to explain.

Point two: I didn't say Obama was anti gay, and I don't think he is. But his COMFORT LEVEL with people who ARE explicitly anti gay is unacceptable for me.

and to your second point that is what I understood you to mean and I was not accusing you of making that suggestion.

Why didn't Obama invite one of them to emcee the event?

It's derogatory to suggest that all African American pastors are homophobic. It's just wrong.

And please don't use the phrase "gay lifestyle." Being gay is not a lifestyle. Nor is there some mythical "gay community."

and yas I undetand about the phrasing ans I wi;ll apologize for its us to anyone who asks.

I don't think the gay community as a whole has paid any attention to this yet. However, its in the local gay papers now so soon most GLBT persons here (San Diego) will know about the issue.

Here is how it has effected my partner and I:

My partner:

Before: supported Hillary and Obama but really wants Gore.
After: Wants Gore to run and if he does not he will vote Clinton and support any Dem that gets the nomination.

Me:

Before: Supports Kucinich and would vote for Obama if it looked like Hillary could be beat by him.
After: Supports Kucinich and will vote for Edwards if it looked like Hillary could be beat by him.

So I imagine as the case is every gay person will react differently. My partner and I usually see eye to eye on most politics, my partner really likes Kucinich too but feels he is a lost cause because the media has ignored him and painted him as a UFO lovin freak:)

We're both leaning Hillary now,though gore could sway us instantly. Our politics are most like DK's, but as I said in the OP, I'm a practical guy.

You can change your vote for tactical reasons at the various levels, all the way up to the state convention.

I am still in a bit of a befuddlement of how Obama allowed this. wtf?
Was he willing to give up the gay vote for the fundie one? If so, o that tells a Lot.
Has he actually said anything of substance to defend this stupid move?

Very reasonable and well-considered. Thanks.