Could Martial Law stop impeachment proceedings?

In light of all the self made BushLaws, I'm wondering. If by some far out miracle impeachment ever DID get on the table, would that constitute a 'national emergency' in Bush's mind, causing him to freak out and stop the impeachment proceeding themselves?

signed some kind of "executive order" that allows him to arrest any person who interferes with his prosecution of the war.

There actually is just such a document. I don't know if it would apply to Congress.

In the end I don't think it matters because George is very astute in either finding some hack lawyer to justify his mis-deeds, and granting himself authority to do whatever he wants to do.

Spooky guy, that George.

There isn't any table. Bush** is making them eat off the floor, because if they don't…

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that finally topples the appearance of open government and freedom in USA.
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A coup without an army is basically just wishful thinking. The army hates his guts. And they aren't here, anyway. Who's going to enforce his will?

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para-military organizations, militia and state and local police forces. The well armed and trained secret armies in the form of insurrectionist are in USA. The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq have filled the ranks local state militia with disgruntled veterans who can be trusted to respond. Fighting a war of insurrectionist have trained these people how to become insurrectionists. The prisons in the USA have been built. The local police forces have been conditioned and trained.

The power is here. Between now and January 2009, the administration must seize final total government power or lose it. Once the power is lost, prisons await for the righteous power people.

Yes shrub can be trusted to give Presidential Pardons to himself and the first order of lackeys. But others are going to be left exposed. It will not be possible to protect all of them once out of power. Even with presidential pardons, the offenders will be subject to arrest and rendering to the international courts for trial of international war crimes. ...

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I am a lifelong liberal dem, but your post is nothing more than supposition and unfounded speculation. Among other things, you've forgotten that the military takes an oath to defend the constitution. My nephew is a detective with a local police force and assures me that they have NOT been "conditioned and trained", as you state, again without foundation. If you'd bother to study the constitution, a president cannot pardon himself. Your post sounds like something I would expect to see emanate from FreeRepublic. Why not leave the silly postulations to the RWers instead of drawing ridicule to our side?

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_Much_ of what has been done under this administration is illegal (unwarranted wire taps and torture are just two examples). The out going administration holds power and is able to keep the investigations under control. They see themselves as the 'smartest people in the room.' Once the new incoming administration is sworn in to power, the government officials, higher and lower in the admin, who authorized the misuse of government power will be subject to arrests and law suits. This is clear even to the casual observer.

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"Article 2 Section 2 - Civilian Power over Military, Cabinet, Pardon Power, Appointments

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States; he may require the Opinion, in writing, of the principal Officer in each of the executive Departments, upon any subject relating to the Duties of their respective Offices, and he shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offenses against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."

The president seems to be able to give himself a pardon as long as he is not under impeachment.

Given this situation, is it not reasonable to expect the group of the 'smartest people in the room' types to act as outlined?
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what you are suggesting is logically impossible. You cannot bring criminal charges against a sitting President. In order to charge said President, he would have to be impeached by the House AND convicted by the Senate, after which removal is automatic, thus allowing a prosecutor to then bring criminal charges. Since the only way criminal charges can be brought is the way I described, please tell me how a President could pardon himself. I'd really love to hear this.

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Assume shrub gives himself and or his minions, a presidential pardon. He is then beyond US law for his crimes (this applies to all recipients of pardons).

Any nation can bring charges against shrub, the ex-VP or ex-Secretary of Defense (and others) in the International Court of Justice at The Hague, Netherlands. The new president could then render the accused for trial as a war criminal.

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The idea of shrub pardoning himself seems to be giving many at DU trouble. Put _nothing_ beyond this group of criminals, I don't. Name one area that these miscreants have not tarnished with their actions!
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The ONLY way you can charge a U.S. President with a crime is if he is NO LONGER PRESIDENT!!!!! Please tell me how he can "pardon himself" when he is no longer President. Think this through. If he is a sitting President, by definition, that means he is still in office. In office, he CANNOT be charged with a crime, hence impeachment is the tool that is used to remove a President from office so he CAN be charged and tried. The House impeaches and the Senate tries the impeachment and, upon conviction, the President is AUTOMATICALLY removed from office and can subsequently be charged with a crime. Do you understand the concept of precedence? Do you understand cause and effect? How can he pardon himself of a crime he hasn't been convicted of? Or, conversely, if he has been convicted of a crime, he would have already had to be removed as President to be charged and convicted! He is NO LONGER President, so he can't pardon himself anyhow! Are you suggesting that Bill Clinton retains the authority to pardon people? Is this sinking in???

Please explain how, under those circumstances, Bush can pardon himself.

21 January 2007 was nearly ten months ago. To my knowledge (and dismay), Bush was still President as far as I know. If you have different info, please let us all know.

And on January 20th, I'm going to pull them all out and poke merciless fun at those who made them.

can't wait.

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What will you say when _you_ are wrong?
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to post on under your scenario, and the likelihood that I'll be wrong, is very small indeed.

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your being wrong?
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I'm not wrong. bushco will not impose martial law. Logistically, it's a near impossibility. But if it happened, of course it would be disasterous.

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Orleans. They went in ready for action and well armed.

Logistically any Fed-Ex type logistics operations can be federalized. The expertise can easily be utilized in an emergency.

For the people of USA it will be a disaster.
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well armed people. bushco can't count on either the guard or local police. Hell, in many states, there aren't enough local police. Where I live there's a police force of 5 covering 15 towns and the nearest State Police barracks is 40 miles away. Lots of rural America is like that. The armed forces are stretched to the max. It just isn't as simple as you make it out to be.

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Given the certainty of facing serious jail time, financial ruin and and loss of power; would not the privileged power people grab for the brass ring? Martial law is a true possibility.
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However, the *most* privileged of people (the CEO's, members of the Boards of Directors, stock-holders, etc), those with the most financially vested interest in maintaining the status quo, would simply not allow your scenario to happen.

Exxon, Microsoft and General Electric would not allow your scenario to come to pass.

If, and only if this administration were the sole holder of power in this country, could I envision your dramatic prognostications to follow. But as Bushco is merely the de-facto broker of those who own the most (as I believe it to be), the administration will end merely with a whimper...

Martial law is a true possibility, as is the discovery of the lost island of Atlantis-- I give them both the same possibility to come to pass.

True power wants the status-quo maintained-- therefore the status-quo will remain.

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The CEO's of Exxon, Microsoft and General Electric et al, play no part in this.

It is the political power that is up for grabs. shrub and Co. cannot protect themselves from their political enemies once they are out of power. The lists of enemies are great, both R and D.

Even if a Repubikaner wins the presidency (now that is a looooong shot), there will be very little reason for the incoming administration to protect shrub, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and others. The Washington establishment types will be gunning for them AND THEY (shrub, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and others) KNOW IT.

My point is shrub, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and others top dogs are not the type of people to accumulate all this unbridled executive power to themselves and then to hand it over to a Democratic administration (people who want to do shrub, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and others long term harm).

Do shrub, Cheney, Rove, Gonzales and others have any other options open to them?
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"The CEO's of Exxon, Microsoft and General Electric et al, play no part in this."


If you truly believe that, then I'm afraid you either don't know where the power lies in this country, or have blinded yourself with idealism.

Either way, your dramatic scenario would upset those who are truly vested in power and they would simply not allow martial law to happen in this country.

Yes-- it's mathematically possible. It's also mathematically possible that I will win the lottery even though I don't buy lottery tickets.

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CEO's may have placed shrub and Co. in power so that they may control them. They may think they run the show (and to an extent they do).

But in the final analysis what do The Cheney Gang have to lose (except their wealth, power and status)? Jail is a real option after January 2009 when Kucinich and Clinton win the White House.

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As a side note, the international money people who are vested in power are willing to pack up their tents and take their profits overseas. They may be invested, but not in democracy in USA.
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to think it could be achieved.

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Pakistan is falling into chaos because of martial law. USA too can be expected to have people resisting. But this does not mean shrub and Co. are not beyond trying it, if only for the sake of their personal survival.

Nothing is beyond Cheney and gang when it comes totheir power.
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forecast based on nothing but "they're capable of anything", feel free, but I'll make my forecast right now: bushco will not declare martial law; there will be elections in less than a year. I believe bush has no desire to stay on in the White House. We'll find out soon.

they can just fire at you, claim you were an enemy of the state, kill you and wash their hands with your blood... (and when i say, "you," i mean, "me", or anyone whom they, the police state, want to target.)

Rent a copy of THE NIGHT OF THE GENERALS ... or read the events happening in Pakistan right now.
There in Pakistan today the police jackbooted lawyers congregated inside a courtroom protesting against Musharaff's state of emergency, wounded quite a few lawyers and arrested a few of them

Whatever is happening in Pakistan today ... whatever happened in THE NIGHT OF THE GENERALS, whatever is happening in Venezuela today, or happened in Cuba years ago, are, they really are, a preview of what Bush has in store for us once he sets his mind to unleash the unlimited powers he has given to himself and his administration. He has been slow in mounting his police state. He has done so drip by drip and step by step ... he will bide his time and he will unleash it when he thinks the time is ripe for it.

I hope you are talking CIA-backed coup of the past otherwise your "Night of Generals" is not on my reading list.

When Hugo Chavez stands ready to dismantle the Constitution of Venezuela and set himself as dictator/president for the next who knows how many elections ... yes, i have to include Venezuela ... (even when his ascent to power may have come out of a need to right the wrongs of previous CIA Backed coups ... he is not playing it right this time around. It seems that for him, too, power has gone into his head.)

bushco is not going to declare martial law, and I'm sure he's perfectly aware that even should he be impeached, he won't be convicted.

He likes fights he knows that he can win.

would still NOT vote to impeach once the crimes were all exposed to the dumb public on the stupid tube?

you might as well concern yourself with alien invasions or a mass outbreak of smallpox.

A two for one!

According to DU, Bush is, any day now, going to:

suspend elections

bomb Iran/Syria/Russia

nuclear attack Iran

And now, declare martial law.

Have I missed anything?

Any day now, any day now.

Oh and you forgot, he's about to round up all "liberals" for the camps too.

And it's not going to pass.

If they did hearings against the administration they'd also have to indict themselves for complicity in the war crimes.

impeachment is off the table because they're afraid it would lose. And because they're afraid (wrongly, I think) that it would have a boomerang effect and boost bush's standing.

No

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when it predictably failed by a wide margin.

this clown in a coup attempt.

Even Curtis Le May would be appalled at what this cretin has done to the nation and to the military.

The loyalty the service members have is to the Constitution. There may be some crazed officers that might actually try something stupid, but the would be Field Grade at best, not General Officers, the ones who truly Command the military. Then you have to get the NCOs to go along with a coup, exceptionally unlikely. The end result would be complete disaster. If anything, and this is right out of Sci-Fi for this nation, if there was a military coup, it would be to take bush and cheney into custody, with the Speaker of the House taking over the reins of government.

Even during the Civil War, when there were rumblings within the military of "changing strategy", not one Officer was in favor of ousting Lincoln, until the 1864 election when McClellan ran against Lincoln, in attempt to bring the war to a close...on essentially Confederate terms no less.

I cannot fathom a military coup in any fashion in this nation. It isn't in the cards. In fact, there is an excellent possibility that bush and cheney might be charged w/crimes after they leave office. Once the "secrets" get exposed, (if they are exposed), there will rise from the people a great clamor for justice to be done...:)

I know that if I were we being inaugurated in 1-20-09, I'd have them arrested immediately following my Oath of Office. In 48 hours, I'd have a list of crimes that would send them away for the rest of their lives...:D