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Obama falters. Maybe he could use some of those "gay votes" now...

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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:34 PM
Original message
Obama falters. Maybe he could use some of those "gay votes" now...
the ones he tossed under the bus?

Obama was a stammering and bumbling bundle of nerves. His mojo was NOjo. At least the public was able to see what he's made of.

Edwards was still angry and desperate. How else could he be when he is so far behind?

Clinton, Biden and Kucinich were red-hot. Clinton kept her cool but was punchy when necessary...I think she won the debate. Kucinich was wonderful and he really came through as the progressive leader that he is. Biden did himself good. He should go up a bit in the polls.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:36 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ok instead of using cute talking points and blanket insults...
Where did Obama actually stumble?
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Drivers license question
Even you must admit that he wasn't prepared for that one, Wolsh.
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. He was able to answer the question however.
As I said in the debate thread, he should have been better prepared for the question, however I don't think, the way Wolf worded the question, allowed for a yes/no answer.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. The question wolf asked was "do you support giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants"
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:56 PM by Lirwin2
It's a yes or no question. It's certainly acceptable to go into WHY you believe yes or no (as hillary did during the last debate, for which she was attacked by Obama for not answering "yes or no" to a "yes or no question").However, Obama answered YES, then he started into a "but..." that shed doubt on his whole position, and stumbled/bumbled from there.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:46 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. That was not the question. I don't have the exact quote, but
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:46 PM by hedgehog
the question was " do you support giving licenses to illegal immigrants assuming that there will be no progress on the problem of illegal immigration.


Sticking in that extra clause changed the entire question.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:50 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. It was "assuming there will be no comprehensive immigration reform"
In other words, as an issue by itself, do you support giving drivers licenses to illegal immigrants?
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. But its not an issue by itself....
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:52 PM by Wolsh
because good candidates do not engage in hypotheticals.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Then why did Obama attack Hillary after the last debate for "not taking a position"?
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:55 PM by Lirwin2
Since good candidates don't engage in hypotheticals. I'm gonna do a search right now for all the Wolsh posts in the past 2 weeks defending Hillary for not engaging in hypotheticals!
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. She was presented an actual issue!!`
She was asked if she supporter the NY Governor's bill! Thats an actual bill that either you support, or you do not support.
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Clintonista2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Wrong. You should know better Wolsh.
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 11:21 PM by Lirwin2
Transcrips are easy to find. The actual question was:

Russert: "Senator Clinton, Governor of New York Eliot Spitzer has proposed giving driver's licenses to illegal immigrants. He told the Nashua, New Hampshire, Editorial Board it makes a lot of sense. Why does it make a lot of sense to give an illegal immigrant a driver's license?"

They weren't talking about a bill at all. They were talking about the issue of driver's licenses for illegal immigrants. Just as they were tonight, when Obama was unable to answer a question that he should have been prepared for.
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mtnsnake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. I think your analysis is dead on. nt
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Joe the Revelator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Up next on " Things I've heard today that do not shock me..."
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Josiah1982 Donating Member (204 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
7. I liked kucinichs line "I read it"
it was dead on. Kucinich was the winner in my view. Obama was not good tonight. Hey, they all can have an off night. Still, anyone of ours is better then anyone of theirs.
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MalloyLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:14 PM
Response to Reply #7
15. In YOUR view he was, but the audience was for Shillery
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last_texas_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
8. Hmm...
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 10:45 PM by last_texas_dem
Is there a real reason for this post other than to put out the "Obama hates gays" talking point for the thousandth time? Obama isn't my first choice, but he was hardly a "stammering and bumbling bundle of nerves" in the debate tonight.
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Divine Discontent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:12 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. I agree...
he is near the bottom of my list, but I don't think he was that bumbling... Richardson was bumbling, horribly. Edwards, Obama, and Biden were good, Hillary was solid, but I wish they would have hit on her record even harder because the Repubs will if she's our nominee. And I believe she was given WAYYYYY too much time tonight, it seemed almost like corporate CNN made sure of that.

I liked certain answers from everyone tonight, except Bill.... He should go back to NM and then hopefully those votes will go to Edwards or Biden, but I think his voters are Clinton voters, anyone else agree?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. As a Homosexual.
I'll be screaming it for the mountain tops, every street corner, all over the web... you get my drift.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
16. Maybe he could use some of those baby boomer votes also.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. He "don't need no stinking boomers"
He's a Gen-Xer. Haven't you heard?:evilgrin:
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jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Will you vote for him if he's our nominee? This is the 3rd time I've asked you since you called him
Edited on Thu Nov-15-07 11:22 PM by jenmito
Barack Hussein Obama. :eyes:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. I guess our little discussion earlier has come tio light.
:rofl:
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #20
23. what do you Obama supporters have against Muslims?
everytime somebody mentions his middle name you all FREAK out!:shrug:
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #23
28. I don't get that either...
is his middle name unmentionable?
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-15-07 11:29 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. He prayed away the boomer!
He's an ex-boomer! :hi:
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Bake Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. You beat me to it.
That was my first reaction to the OP also. Indeed.

Bake
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 12:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. I would think Edwards and Obama would like those first 12
minutes back of the debate. Cause during that first 12 minutes HRC made her move. First it was against Obama and from that point on Obama was stammering and mumbling and incoherant at times. When he tried to answer that simple yes or no question and used 10,000 words to answer and then HRC had used a simple NO to answer the same question, Obama was done. After HRC took on edwards too within that 12 minute span Edwards said no more harsh words directed at HRC> So one can say HRC took over the debate in 12 minutees and caused the tone and tenor of the debate to change.

Great

Ben David
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. I don't think there is any doubt: Clinton won that debate.
thanks for your post Ben David.:hi:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
27. Obama will still support LGBT rights despite some whiners and malcontents
Keep trashing him. Whatever. That won't stop him from doing all he can for LGBT civil rights issues.
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Nov-17-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. right.
:puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:
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