Obama Is Paying No Price For Aggression

"...Obama has stepped up his criticisms of Hillary Clinton, and his brand remains intact. In fact, it may be stronger than ever.
A new Washington Post poll of Iowa voters shows Obama on the leading side of a statistical dead heat among the top candidates.
Thirty percent of respondents favor Obama, 26 percent support Clinton, and 22 percent like John Edwards... Obama has gone on
the offense in debates, on the stump, and in interviews on topics ranging from Social Security to Iran and Iraq to giving driver's
licenses to illegal immigrants. The common thread is not so much the specifics of the policy at issue, but that Clinton is not being
truthful. "If she's willing to shift this quickly on this issue," he said about her position on ethanol, "we don't know whether she will
shift back when it gets hard."

<snip>

"The Post poll shows that voters find Obama the most honest and trustworthy, about double the percentage of those who said that
of Clinton, but Obama has benefited not just by raising that issue, he has been able to increase his support at the same time. This
challenges that classic piece of campaign wisdom about Iowa—that if a candidate is aggressive, he may degrade his opponent but
will also diminish his own standing or lose support to a third candidate. Obama has been able to improve his position among crucial
45 and older voters by eight percentage points over the same period, and with women, he has gained six points since the summer.
He has also improved his standing with voters on the question of which candidate can better handle the war in Iraq. Clinton's
12-point lead on dealing with the issue has disappeared... The story of the new Iowa poll appears to be less about Clinton slipping
than Obama rising. That he's been able to do so while coming out fighting may come to define his new kind of politics more than
any of his writings or speeches."

http://www.slate.com/id/2178381/nav/tap3/

Happy Thanksgiving, all.

They are realizing he's in to WIN. :)

also from the linked blog: "Hillary Clinton and her campaign aides have responded to the Obama initiative by reminding voters that Obama used to preach against the practices he's now engaging in: distorting an opponent's positions, questioning his or her motives, and embracing the limited and false narratives that diminish the complexity of his or her views."

I chose the less kitschy, more honestly newsworthy part of the headline. Unlike you.

26 to 17 in three days - something's happening for sure

Oh, right.

Funny how they are the ONLY poll where Obama has fallen precipitously when all the rest show Hillaryworld taking a dive nationally
AND in Iowa and NH.


Hmmm....

:eyes:

As if you wouldn't raise you eyebrows if the shoe was on the other foot.

Puhleeze.

Which evidently you're not liking that much.

Not trying to cause discomfort tho, just saying hey - this poll is saying something different. Seen the graph?

I only look at unbiased polling where the pollsters have NO connection to any campaign. But that's just me.

And in every one of those type of polls, Clinton is on a downward trend while "Obama is moving up fast" to quote
David Schuster.

The Rasmussen poll was conducted entirely after the last debate. The other polls were not. Hillary had taken some hits, and dips in all the polls, including Rasmussen, after the Tim Russert debate, but was widely seen as having recovered in the last debate. So I think this particular poll might be an indication of what's to come in near-future polls. That makes sense to me.


We will see.

happy thanksgiving

In the meantime, Rasmussen's polls are tainted by his partnership with Mark Penn's former partner and present best buddy.

Now he is in the groove.

going to hurt Obama as much as Edwards and Clinton, but I surely could be wrong. We'll see on Jan 3rd.

Obama can be as negative as he wants, but God help anyone who
even makes a whisper of criticism about this guy.

I like him less and less.

That's a good one.

:rofl:

God, Hillaryworlders crack me up. Thanks for the laughs.

Really.

I think he's falling prey to the media that has been insisting all along he should step up his rhetoric against Hillary if he wants to make headway against her in the race. Obama sounds good when he's explaining the differences between he and Clinton, but he's at his worst when he attacks her in the same manner that Edwards has.

Personally, I think Obama would be much better off to forget about trying to punish Hillary with insults and just be himself and go back to inspiring us all the way he did prior to the Primaries and see if he can recapture the same magic that emanated from him during that fantastic Keynote Address of his in 2004. Insulting Hillary as a priority is only going to backfire over time. I liked him much better when he was trying to act like Barack Obama and not like John Edwards. Leave the feeble attacks on fellow Democrats to Edwards who doesn't have a shot at going anywhere anyhow.

Those who forget the lessons of McCain in 2000 and Kerry in 2004 are bound to repeat them.

He is so stupid he reacted to a rove tactic in the novak column. Where has he been for the last 10 years that he didn't know novak is a tool for the republicans and no democrat would give him any such information. The next president is going to get a pile of left over garbage thrown at him or her. I honestly do not think that Obama would be able to handle it. I am fearful. Please do not talk to me about his honesty and integrity because I don't think he is all that wonderful.

Funny how it took Mark Penn three times to finally issue a blanket denial. The first two were lame (and very telling) non-denial
denials and didn't fool anyone except Hillaryworlders.

Obama SMACKDOWN = Hillaryworld sulking

lol

Obama looked foolish, an experienced candiate would've known better than to buy what Novak was selling. At first it looked like Obama and Novak were in it together, but the triumphant smirk on Novak's face was proof he enjoyed messing with the rookie.
We'll see if Obama learned his lesson.

:rofl:

He was great in responding to some attacks from the right wing earlier this year because he didn't hesitate to respond. OTOH, taking the offensive towards a fellow Democrat, Hillary, shows us another side to him, not a pleasant one, although I'm sure that anyone who attacks Hillary is heroic to you.

Taking the offensive? That's Hillaryous.... I'm very pleased that he taught the Clintonian sleeze machine that he wasn't going to stand around while
they tried to swiftboat him with an ugly whispering campaign, though I'm sure that whenever Clinton attacks a fellow Democrat it's heroic to you.

"he taught the Clintonian sleeze machine that he wasn't going to stand around while
they tried to swiftboat him with an ugly whispering campaign"
You're entitled to your own opinion Clark, but not your own facts:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3748711&mesg_id=3748894

Media Matters is run by strong Clinton supporters who constantly defend Hillaryworld's screw-ups while largely leaving the other
candidates out to dry.

Try again.

about Cllinton. Obama was the first to start the bashing.

She is entitled to defend herself.

Um, name exactly when did Obama "first... start the bashing"?

I believe Clinton began the bashing when she attacked Obama's foreign policy ideas "naive and irresponsible" months ago,
a talking point soon picked up by Rudi Giuliani. Way to go, Hillaryworld. Keep helping Republicans attack good Democrats.

By the way, Senator Jim Webb called Obama's foreign policy ideas "refreshing." Guess which one has more foreign policy
experience, Webb or Clinton?

That says all I need to know about you.

No wonder you like to reference it. What's the matter? Is HillaryIs44 or HillaryHub or Daily Howler or Taylor Marsh not
putting up Mark Penn's daily talking points fast enough for you?

If that isn't a dose of truth, I don't know what is.

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

:rofl:

Do you see your own hypocrisy?

For endlessly providing entertainment for the rest of us.

:rofl:

:rofl:

Don't forget to tell your mother the same thing for me.

:)

rather than anything personal.

The Obama camp gets people tossed out of Daily Kos who dare criticize him.
Why is he trustworthy? Are there specifics on this? Or is it because he looks
therefore he is. Despite how his campaign is being run.

Iowans think he's more than twice (31% to 15%) as trustworthy and honest as Queen Clinton in the latest poll of likely
caucus voters. Hmmm.... wonder why?

Maybe you should take up your complaints with them, if they can take the whining for that long.

It is offensive to me, and kinda juvenile, and I am just an average person (ok, actually a bit smarter than average), and a good gage. It does not help him

But the facts (i.e., upwardly trending poll numbers in Iowa and New Hampshire, as well as in new national polling) indicate that
not taking any shit from other candidates is helping Obama.

I believe the polls show the media hype Obama received after the leg-up-russert-debate and the Jefferson dinner. "All positive all the time" media hype helps, especially coupled with negative Clinton coverage all the time.

It took a few weeks for the polls to reflect a change after that Russert debate. I will wait to see the polls in a few weeks.

And, just because I show support for Clinton, does not mean I should be summarily discounted.

That's why I depend on Iowa and NH state polls as snapshots in time and look for trends, especially this close to
the Iowa caucus and NH primary -- taking into account that NH will most likely be influenced by the results in Iowa.

National polls are mostly meaningless, of course.

He is stepping up his game in exactly the right way - by using Clinton's own shortcomings against herself so that the force of the blow seems to come from herself, rather than from him. It is a pretty amazing example of political judo, and something that (I must admit) I didn't think Obama had in his arsenal.

On top of that, his criticisms about her pandering and such are specifically designed to highlight his own strengths. If these guys had this planned and were just holding back, it would be spooky. But I think what actually happened was that Obama proved (perhaps to himself, as well) that he could step up to the plate when it mattered.

In the spring a couple articles on his campaign mentioned they would do the big push in the fall sometime.

Your perspective reminded me of a Democratic political pundit who said on Wednesday that it seemed as if Obama was practicing political
jiujitsu on Clinton because none of Clinton's moves were hurting him -- they were hurting HER. I always knew he had it in him, but I was
wondering when he'd start using his cool eloquence to systematically take Clinton apart. Her attacks made it that much easier to do it.
Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee.

I guess it all depends on the target of your aggression.

Yes, it all depends on the target of your aggression -- or is it obsession?

Why is Obama in bed with Karl Rove?
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3746391&mesg_id=3746391

Social Security Scare Squad Enlists Obama
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3748355

Kaus suggests reason for Obama's 9 point drop in Rasmussen might be his response to Novak
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3749917

Biden agrees with Obama on the strength of his foreign policy credentials
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=3744974&mesg_id=3744974

And that's just on the homepage.

attacks against Democrats like Hillary Clinton and Al Gore. I am so powerful, it's scary. Thank heavens good Democrats have warriors like you courageous enough to take me on.

But I don't expect an Hillaryworld acolyte/apologist to be honest enough to admit self-righteous hypocrisy. That's okay --
I've noticed supporters tend to take on the traits of their candidates.

nt

And you are a mirror into the mind and soul of Hillaryworld. No wonder Iowans think Obama is more honest and trustworthy
than Clinton by a margin of more than 2:1 according to the latest ABC/Washington Post poll.