Is Armageddon our destiny?

I hear a lot of people talking about Armageddon these days. They don't understand all the terrible things going on in the world and, because of this, wonder if the predictions are really true.

Well, I don't know about you, but I have never seen a "prediction" come true - even in past history and the recorded results. Nobody (here on Earth) ever knew or knows now what the future has in store. But there are people in powerful and influential positions who think they have a lot to gain by making the general population believe such things.

Stop and think about it; everyone believes we have free will. I never heard anyone say otherwise. So our futures are not predestined. Our future is literally what we make it - aside from natural events we can't control. The question is, what future are we willing to work towards? We all (every sane human being) wants a world of peace where there is no poverty or hunger. A world where we can choose the sort of life we most desire and have a high probability of success. And yes, most people in the world are sane and desire this. And it is possible because we have plenty of resources to do this if we use them wisely.

So, what's the problem? Why is the world a mess?

Our leaders want us to think the big problem today is terrorism, and that this is a new development. This is not true; terrorism has always existed and leaders, emperors, dictators, and kings love to use this as reason to start wars. According to the King of England, the American colonists were trouble-making terrorists! But his crackdown on America resulted in a revolt that created a new nation.

And what did our founding fathers do about protecting us against future despots ruling us again? They tried to separate the powers of government so these would not be concentrated in one person.

Now let's stop and think about how much of a threat terrorism really is. What causes terrorism and who does it? If you have been paying attention, you see that terrorists use low cost weapons or weapons they can steal. These are not the type of people who can wage a successful war to destroy a nation. To me it is obvious that terrorists result from ordinary people being abused to the point of frustration, and they start to fight back. This abuse often comes from attacking militia from their own corrupt government or attacks from other countries. To put it another way, terrorists (in general) are ordinary people standing up for their rights. But notice that whenever our media news talks about terrorists, they never talk about their root causes or their agendas. The news shows tell us they hate our freedom. How much sense does that make? This paragraph is an oversimplification of a complex problem, but if you research it this is the essence of terrorism.

What do we do about all this? Many of us are already demonstrating against our loss of Constitutional democratic freedoms by our government. This is not a good sign for our future; it gives the government reason to call ordinary citizens terrorists. Listen to http://www.911blogger.com/dailynews">what Naomi Wolf has to say about this sign and other signs that despots are at work against "we, the people". As the former CIA analyst Ray McGovern says, "This is serious, folks!" after discussing corruption of our government. We are being lead (and mislead) by our media - which is an arm of the military-industrial Empire. Don't believe their analysis of our presidential candidates. Vote for one who talks peace and justice. Most don't - most support our continued imperial aggression. Listen to their comments about the continued use of military power carefully - very carefully!

Naomi Wolf's elder friend talks about how things were in 1932 Germany. People were still able to say what they wanted. It was a tipping point when if the citizenry demanded it, they could have saved their democracy. We are now at the same point in America and are threatened by a fascist future. Are we willing to talk about this to all our friends and do something before it is too late?

It's time to take back our country and begin to undo everything * has done over the past seven years.

about millenarianism:

"I hear a lot of people talking about Armageddon these days. They don't understand all the terrible things going on in the world and, because of this, wonder if the predictions are really true."

Nothing even remotely new about about the anticipation of the imminent end of the world. And it's not only in our culture that it's prominent.

"Well, I don't know about you, but I have never seen a "prediction" come true - even in past history and the recorded results. Nobody (here on Earth) ever knew or knows now what the future has in store. But there are people in powerful and influential positions who think they have a lot to gain by making the general population believe such things."

I've seen predictions come true. More often than not they don't, but I've certainly seen some spot on accurate predictions. And who do you think is trying to make the general population believe such things? Who are these powerful people and forces?

"So, what's the problem? Why is the world a mess?"

Human nature. we're not,as a species, appreciably different from our ancestors who lived as hunter gatherers more than 10,000 years ago. We've created all kinds of "tools" that we don't seem well equipped to handle responsibly.


"To me it is obvious that terrorists result from ordinary people being abused to the point of frustration, and they start to fight back"

Only partially true. Religion has historically been a spur for terrorism. And sadly, violence and blood lust seem to be hardwired into us, as well as more benign human qualities.
I have no idea if most "terrorists" are "ordinary" people- and neither do you. That's a pretty broad statement of opinion, not fact, and it's pretty meaningless.

In fact your entire post is rather banal and a tad condescending, though I'm sure you don't mean it that way.

Finally, of course speech was still fairly unrepressed in 1932 Germany. Hitler didn't take power until the following year.

Watch his words again. I don't think he was condescending.

I don't think Naomi Wolf was condescending either.

And as for myself, I just want the American people to wake up and to not let 2000 or 2004 (stolen elections and politics as usual) from happening again.

Yes, I am really scared for my country! Really scared!

Either we save ourselves now or become another totalitarian fascist country in which we can't say anything.

As Ray McGovern says "This is serious, folks!" Yes it is.

and that wasn't the gist of my post. I was pointing to factual errors in your OP.

"Nothing even remotely new about about the anticipation of the imminent end of the world. And it's not only in our culture that it's prominent."

Very true. I didn't say it was only our culture.

"I've seen predictions come true. More often than not they don't, but I've certainly seen some spot on accurate predictions. And who do you think is trying to make the general population believe such things? Who are these powerful people and forces?"

Our leaders, of course. They are the ones profiting from our ignorance. I might also say, all the powerful forces that lead us are not visible to us as obvious political leaders. Others here at DU have written articles referring to Arron Russo's movie America: Freedom to Fascism. Yes, there are other leaders we don't ordinarily call leaders.

"Human nature. we're not,as a species, appreciably different from our ancestors who lived as hunter gatherers more than 10,000 years ago. We've created all kinds of "tools" that we don't seem well equipped to handle responsibly."

I basically agree with you on this. We are still a primitive species. But we are intelligent. We can overcome the things that divide us with reason. But we can't do that without accurate information. We must create reliable media for ourselves.

Any spur for terrorism from organized religion was a result of oppression by misguided beliefs on a large scale. There is nothing "hardwired" in us to create terrorism, violence, etc. We simply have not become fully civilized yet - mostly due to ignorance.

That's right; Hitler didn't come to power until later. Listen to Naomi Wolf's talk to understand what I meant. In 1932 the German people could have saved themselves from fascism!

Something about four white horses and raising people up to the sky. They just want to make it happen which is against the very bible they have been banging over everyones heads.

are ordinary people standing up for their rights. An ordinary person standing up for their rights does not strap a bomb to themselves walk into a crowded mall, or bus or train, and murder innocent ordinary people destroying the basic human right to life.

And do not allow yourself to believe that all sane people wish for world peace that is without hunger or poverty. That marginalizes goals counter to these as insane, and that just is not true of a vast majority of those that wish to marginalize vast groups of people towards their own selfish goals. If that were true, then by nature we would evolve into a peaceful world without hunger or povery and clearly that is not our path.

Terrorism is neither insane nor ordinary, yet it does exist. It is calculated and insipid, and must be met with more depth and calculation than your idealistic post provides.

I didn't say ordinary people would do this. I said when ordinary people are pushed far enough and become frustrated enough, they may become terrorists because nothing else seems to work for them.

In our culture of competitive capitalism, we are trained to be selfish. It is sad but true. This is not the norm for humanity. But it is what the imperial capitalists want us to believe. Note I said "imperial capitalists". Not all capitalists are imperialists.

"I said when ordinary people are pushed far enough, and become frustrated enough, they may become terrorists, because nothing else seems to work for them."

So in essence, choosing to murder other innocent humans only guilty of being in the vacinity of a blast is a factor of how far an ordinary person is pushed with a lack of perceived options? Again, way too simplistic. Terrorism is an institution not a simplistic progression of human nature. Imperial Capitalism is no more the cause of terrorism than terrorism is the solution, nor should it be discounted as a norm of expectation, in my mind.

is where the name of the battle of Armageddon came from. At this site many battles were fought in times past. It is considered by many fundamentalist Christians to be the place where the last battle between "God's army" and "Satan's army" will be waged. After this decisive battle everything is supposed to be dandy because of course the Christian God will win and all the good people will go to heaven. Forgive me if I didn't get all the facts correct, that's the gist of it as I understand. It is also a place quite close to where all of the current conflict is occuring. The big difference between the battles in ancient times and the war waged there at present is that there are nuclear weapons involved in the posturing which could very easily be used by fanatics of "God's army" or "Satan's army", whichever one is which is your best guess. So, yes, I would say there is a very good possibility of Armageddon occuring in the very near future. :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:

Oh, and did I forget to say IMPEACH NOW!!!!

"So, yes, I would say there is a very good possibility of Armageddon occurring in the very near future."

That's my whole point! We must not let it! We have free will to stop it! For the religious of us, God expects us to stop it! Whatever you do to my people, you do to me.

The only purpose of our military in Iraq and Afghanistan today is to control mid-east oil! Is control of oil worth all this? We know how to generate energy by other means, and we are always learning.

dfgrbac!!

:hi:

history, is replete with those who claim gloom and then doom are just a day or two ahead. Armageddon scenarios are merely the latest in this context.

Millerites in the 19th century, pacifists during WWI, those who saw WWII as the decisive end of it all, the Cold War and the threat of nuclear annihilation. Going back to Sumerian tablets, Babylonian works, Greek, Roman and just about every other society has the purveyors of the death of the planet.

We could be hit by an asteroid in a couple of years, and in the last few seconds of life on earth as we know it, would come down to..."Holy Crap". This earth will be eventually burnt to crisp by an expanding sun, what we do between now and then, is really up to humanity...not that I have a whole lot of faith in humanity to "do the right thing".

We are merely repeating, albeit not precisely to script, what others before us have done. We whip hate for those that are "different", and try to kill them off. We rationalize our behavior as "being protective" when we really are deferring to our fears. Rather than create a better future, we stand around and chew our nails, begging for others to "protect" us, giving up what last vestiges of decency we have as a society.

We create the future with what we do with today, and if we cannot see that all of the hatred, ignorance and fear is the prime motivator for those with "Grand Desires", we are once again doomed to repeat the cycle of hatred, the destruction of our home planet and the only thing left, will be for those down the line to start the cycle all over again.

"We create the future with what we do with today, and if we cannot see that all of the hatred, ignorance and fear is the prime motivator for those with "Grand Desires", we are once again doomed to repeat the cycle of hatred, the destruction of our home planet and the only thing left, will be for those down the line to start the cycle all over again."

Ignorance is my top issue. Is it not possible for humanity to learn from history? I think it is. But we must be educated about history to learn. When our schools are insufficient, we don't learn the mistakes of past cultures and we do it all again. In this day and age, we have no excuse for this. We need to wake up to our problems and use the scientific method to solve them. We can apply science to human activities in the political spectrum.

every individual.

What is really offensive is that when facts are there to be seen, when truths are explained...the stubborn blindness of societies and individuals refuses them the enlightenment that is possible.

I can handle stupidity, the incapacity to learn, but I cannot support ignorance, nor can I empathize or sympathize with it. People choose to be ignorant because it is convenient. To me, the first thing out of my mouth if the situation I see appears to be absurd is, "why", followed by "what has you believing that?" In virtually every case, I get a dumb look, and then i see the spark in the eye, as they question just why they are doing something that should have been questioned in the first place.

Question Authority! The worst that happen is that actually give you a plausible answer...:)

The world has rarely been in agreement on anything save the sun rising in the east and setting in the west. What is troubling for one culture is not worth comment in others. I am sure that the people of the Mideast and Europe thought the successive waves of Mongols, Huns, Scythians, Germans, et al. were the end of the world as they knew it. But to the invaders, I am sure it was merely their time in the limelight.

By the winter of 1945-6 most of Europe looked as if it was in its death throes, from the UK to Greece and Russia. Look at Eurasia now! The same goes for the series of religious wars in Europe: I am sure that the 40 Years War looked to the various people in Germany that they would never recover, yet 100 years later Bach was churning out his organ preludes, making way for Mozart and Beethoven.

I refuse to concede that there will be a closing chapter to our primate history. . . vanity prevents it.

Where the hell are you hanging out?

Jesus, get a change of scenery.