It's not that Obama is pandering to the religious wrong

it is that we are trying to reach over to them while I don't see any of them trying to reach over to us.

They claim to have the "moral values" to follow their gods which means they do not accept any compromise. When we are going to them, when we are willing to bend our values, we demonstrate that our core beliefs are weaker than theirs.

And this is the problem with all these pandering.

Just rudely tell them if they want to live in a theocracy they are in the wrong country and they should fucking leave.

that we don't live in a theocracy and that if they want to call themselves Christian Americans they need to change their ways.

People who don't speak the language of the religious don't get it. He's the only one who is confronting them. He also does it while maintaining respect, which is also a new language for the wacky right, but it's also the only way to shame the haters into silence. Some people don't know any language except hate, and that's not just true of the right wing radicals.

we need to stop letting them act as if they do.

and I get what he's doing. It's what DUers have said we need to do for years. Here comes somebody who is doing it, and they're horrified that someone is talking to the religious community. It's absolutely insane.

but if we - everyone - agrees that the nation is divided, polarized, whatever one's take it. And if we want to bridge the divide, it has to be a two way street.

So far it appears that we go to their churches and profess our faith as a sign of goodwill but I don't see any of them coming to us to talk about civil rights.

This Jew gets it. What he's doing will help, the same way Jim Wallis and Joel Osteen have softened many hate-filled hard-right Christians with a truly compassionate message.

Because this is the implicit meaning of what he says: that those who are non-believers do not matter.

I am not really surprised and it will not change my support for Obama, but, at some point, Democrats have to learn how to speak to evangelical and other religious people without ignoring (or worse) the part of the population who is not religious. This is all I am asking for. Unite people. Do not divide them.

I've posted it repeatedly. He's the only one who goes straight to the religious right and tells them that our Constitution includes everybody. I honestly don't know why you can't hear it, he says it.

it was simply impossible to talk to both sides at the same time.

I understand what Obama was trying to say, but I doubt he needed to use the word "prayerful" to say that. In many other instances, he has been doing this: intentions were good, but he was wording that as if he could not use a neutral language to speak, but needed to use a religious language. And I sincerely hope he gets him some evangelical votes, because if not, it was not worth it.

I'm talking about Obama, specifically. That's what is unique about him, he doesn't say different things to different people. He says the same thing about abortion to the 700 Club as he does to any Democratic women's group, he trust women to make their own choice, prayerfully or otherwise. I'm sure most women would pray about it, why try to pretend otherwise.

But the hostile anti-religiosity here at DU invokes all kind of crazy responses, as crazy as any of the raging Bible-thumpers, and there is a mile between the two extremes. The problem is most Americans lie in between and are turned off by both bents.

And says point blank, women are capable of making their own decisions. I can't understand why people don't get it.

"Women are capable of making their own decisions", period, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But he had to talk about there being a reason to appeal to the sky father in order for a woman to come to a decision and thereby injected religion in the middle of a secular argument.

And I can't understand why (religious) people don't get it.

He wasn't at an atheists convention telling them to pray. He was telling the religious that women have the right to make their own decisions. Same as saying it's between a woman, her doctor and her god. Except he went straight to the 700 Club to say it.

And I'm not religious.

Neither him nor any other mainstream Democrats.

This is the main issue. You have to be religious or you are not worth talking to. This is very, very sad.

aren't they then just another organized religion? The one that doesn't believe in God?

Honestly, I don't know why you're saying this stuff, but I know you know better and I'll leave it at that with you.

I understand the need to tailor the message to the audience, but he could have gotten the message across without bringing religion into it.

He'd tell them he trusts women to prayerfully make their own decision, or whatever other means they choose to make their choices. Lots of people pray when they make tough choices, most do. So what.

He didn't go on the 700 Club pretending to be anti-choice. THAT would have been pandering. He stuck to his position and explained it in a way that would be accessible to a specific audience. I can't figure out why there's so much outrage about this. The McClurkin thing I can understand, (to a point since Obama made it clear through the whole thing that he supports GLBT rights and McClurkin's views were no reflection of his own but he should have disinvited him nonetheless) but to get wound up over him saying "prayerful"? On the freakin' 700 Club? GMAFB.

I'm about as personally anti-religion as it gets but I understand that this is a country of believers and no candidate has a prayer (pardon the pun) who doesn't reach out to them. People on this board who are so intolerant of any reference to religion by a candidate ought to work on a few Red State campaigns, as I have. I got off my secular high horse real fast. Religious voters want to be acknowledged and validated (not necessarily agreed with) and Obama is doing a brilliant job of doing just that. And he's the FIRST politician to affirm the existence of non-believers in a major speech that I've ever heard.

Raw partisanship at DU is manifested by knee-jerk rejection of anything to do with another candidate.

Try to see it as anti-superstition. In effect, "That black cats thing is crazy, but I wouldn't go breaking any mirrors."

--IMM

since reagan.

it's just even more noticeable with those fundies.

Why are some here on DU so inept that they think that "all Christians" are either Republicans or are not to be engaged with?

There are plenty of progressive Christians out there who vote Democratic. It's tragic that some here are so incapable of figuring out the real World.

The people he is saying these things to are already Democrats.

Pandering means saying what they want to hear him say. He says what they do not want to hear, that religious women have abortions too.

on either side of the aisle. Period.