The real question is: Would you vote for a black man or a woman?

More than questioning the electability of Barack and Hillary and using such argument to excuse not supporting them, I think the question that you need to ask yourself is: Do you feel comfortable voting for a black man or a woman for President? Who gives a damn about how others feel about the subject? Are YOU uncomfortable with those choices and prefer to talk about other not voting for them to mask your own prejudices?

I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I'm turning the electability question around.

and their intellect.

Right now, however, their barrage of attacks on each other and by their surrogates are turning me off to both of them.

But, I don't think I can vote for a candidate, no matter their gender or color or whatever, who panders to the worst in our civil society.

I realize that in holding that opinion I'm being naive in a way -- it's the job of politicians to gather up votes.

But, I guess where I come down is, I can't vote for a politician who isn't also a leader. And you're not a leader if you simply accept the Republic framing and try to shake it down.

They'd have to be a Democrat!

I can't see myself voting for Alan Keyes or Liddy Dole.

that - I'm voting for the candidate who's platforms represent my ideals the closest. I honestly like Obama, but I really think he's making some rookie mistakes. I could definitely go for an Edwards/Obama ticket. As for the other, I'm going to be nice tonight...;-)

I think it is important to have a black person man or woman as president. However it also depends on their ability. It would be a change from the old gray haired man in a suit! The Democratic Party needs to promote fresh things into politics.

Right Now!

nothing to do with race or gender. I am going to vote for Biden because I like the way he answers all the questions, I like his style of telling you what he thinks wether it's what you want to hear or not, and I like the questions he asks in the various hearings. He is far lass scripted than the others, and that's what I WANT in a President.

I also will vote for whoever the Dem candidate is in the General!

It has nothing to do with race or gender but who you feel will be the best. I support Obama based upon my belief that he will be best for the Country. Race has nothing to do with my opinion. Now when we can get the crackers in South to see things the same way we have made some progress! (Thinking of the Seinfeld episode about anti-dentites, forgive my poor attempt a humor)

However, how they vote on issues and where they stand DO matter to me.

The "I wouldn't have any problem voting for him/her but OTHER PEOPLE won't give them a shot, so they aren't electable" claim reminds me of the business person who says, "I don't have any problem hiring a black person for the job, but MY CUSTOMERS might not like it, so I'd better not do it."

Your question will surely give lots of people plenty of food for thought.

:)

Or any traditionally "minority" group member. But if they're not the right person for the job I'm not going to vote for them just to feel good about making a statement.

yes, the double whammee!

But, of course I'd vote for a black man, woman, white woman, or any combination or race/ethnicity and gender you come up with.

for removing "in God we trust" from money and for impeaching george bush. Just because I'm skeptical about everyone else, doesn't mean that I really don't want those things.

If anything, we are way overdue for a black and/or female President.

I've already voted for Obama, for Senator. In '72 when I was a kid, I thought Shirley Chisholm was the greatest ever. And I thought Carole Moseley-Braun made a hell of a lot of sense during her run in 2004.

in the primary. I think that Dennis Kucinich speaks to me in a clearer voice than Obama or Clinton. But, I'd vote for either one of them come the GE. Race and gender have nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned.

I would not vote for Condi, but not for either of those reasons.

That is an improper application of the "racism" card.

I'll vote for him in the general election if he is the Democratic nominee.
Same goes for Hillary Clinton or any of the other candidates.

I'll vote for them, but I'm not convinced enough other people will.

I am trying to bring another perspective into the debate.

And I'll likely have the chance to prove it, dammit.

On edit-in the general. In the primary, Dk all the way!

is of absolutely NO concern to me in deciding whether or not to vote for them.

I plan on voting for whomever the Dem nominee is, (unless Stephen Colbert runs as a 3rd party candidate. :))

My black friends will bring up Obama's race in most every convo we have about politics and they will say it's (his race) a major factor in their decision to vote for him. Same can be said for most of my female buds, they say HRC sex is a major factor in their decision to vote for her.

I will vote for the most electable gay friendly candidate.

Which reminds me.... WHY did HC claim several days ago to be the first woman to run for the presidency??? I VOTED for Shirley Chisholm in the 1972 presidential primary.

but not these guys.

Not only would I vote for a black man or a woman for president, I'd give 'em a few extra breaks just to make the point: it's long past time a non-white or a non-male got the job.

This is thinly disguised prejudice to taint those who have problems with Senator Obama's tactics, policies, affiliations or personality as bigots. It will be effective in scaring off many, which is what's desired here: stifling opposition at all costs.

Jan Schakowsky's one of my favorite legislators, and she could win. Much as I love Barbara Boxer, she's just too far left to pull it off.

Here's a hot one: would you be so resolutely zealous about Senator Obama if he was white? Think about some equivalent courting of extremely religious gay-hating christians, ties to medicine-for-money and some of the sloppy statements about nuclear weapons and Pakistan and ask yourself if he'd still by your guy if he wasn't black. Well?

On Obama

Those are a few of the reasons I support Obama.

The post is in response to one saying Obama can't get elected. Did you post on that thread?

If it's the thread I think you mean, it was impossible to give a straight answer to it and that seemed like the intention: conflate each person with his/her "type" and then somehow extract a hypothetical about whether the particular "type" could be elected.

This thread is MUCH more than just a response to that one; it's part of a long continuum of insinuation from the thread-starter, and it sparked some sincere revulsion.

In a more clinical setting, if asked the question "would America elect a black man or a female of any race and none in particular at the moment?", I'd certainly say "yes". We've come a long way in the last few decades, and even with the knee-jerk retrograde motion of the reactionaries since 1980, the movement is still forward. As for these two, I think Obama's still got a shot, but Clinton's got SO much baggage and so much animosity from so many directions that the chances are mighty slim.

that's why I say Edwards should be the candidate.

As long as their not republic neonuts.

Black, female, whatever.

I picked a white man for now but it is because of his positions on the issues.

but if Cynthia McKinney were running, you'd see me promoting her all over DU. I mean if she were running as a democrat. :)

I prefer to have a black man, or a woman, or better yet a woman of color in the job for a while. I think that's an important step in our history, and I think the country will be a little better when white men aren't holding all the power, but are sharing it equally.

I also think getting out of Iraq now, not some indeterminate number of years from now, is important.

:rofl:

Ok, she isnt 'black'

j/k

especially in a candidate. I expect
candidates to rise above making it about
race, it is about the people.
That said, Obama is not my first pick and
it has absolutely nothing to do with his race.

Now, if you are asking people if they
would vote for a black man or woman,
aren't you boiling it down to a race issue
because you think the reason some people
do not support him is because of his race?

You hater, you! :P

I voted for women and african americans.

Anyone that will keep troops in Iraq through their first term, keep Guantanamo open, continue to deny habeas corpus, keep spying on Americans, and defend torture, will never get my vote or support.

ever. So who ever is the new president will either have to cancel the clandestine "treaty" or honor it...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,,2217581,00.html

You're going to have to change your stance on that...

As this country's incredible 220 year history of only white men at the helm is at best simply embarassing, but more honestly it is immoral and unethical. It speaks very badly of us all.

So I'd lower the bar for either, which isn't unfair considering that white men have had it lowered for them from the beginning. The idea that there isn't a woman or a minority in the United States capable of running this country is ludicrous. I can think of about 100 million women, just off the top of my head, that would run this country better than George W. Bush has.

So of you're insinuating that Obama isn't a favorite because of racism, you're barking up the wrong tree, at least with alot of us. Obama gets alot of slack from many of us, I'm sure, just BECAUSE he is a minority and we're long overdue for a minority Executive, as with a woman.

No, the reason is that Obama isn't good enough for the job. Not near good enough. Obama doesn't reach even the lowered bar.

Hillary exceeds the regular bar position by a large margin.

I will always support the candidate that I believe to be the best choice for all American's. I would be proud to vote for either(and for those who realize that they are not mutually exclusive) or both. :crazy:

I've seen where White men have taken us......and I'm ready to go to another place with one with a different mentality.


Actually, at this time, considering the shit that White men have gotten us in, Being Black and/or woman makes one wayyyy more electable to me.

When push comes to shove, I will be thrilled to vote for the first woman or black president. I don't need to say that I strongly prefer the latter. Pasty-faced white men have had their shot at the helm.

a black person throws that in my face, I'll be going to jail because I will knock their fucking head off. What a bigoted, racist, statement.

I happen to be on both threads BEFORE you were. Perhaps you're stalking me.

What matters most to me is that the candidate have views that I am in general agreement with.

I don't think, however, that the U.S. is anywhere near as color and gender blind as it should be. If Hillary or Obama is the nominee, we'll find out just how far we've come, or, conversely, still have to go.

I think Obama is the most electable of the top three- and I'll gladly support him for President should he win the nomination. Others don't feel he's as electable- that doesn't mean that they're racists.

It blew my mind. I can't even repeat it. I would vote for anyone with good ideas and pragmatic experience at this point.

I don't care if they're personally a dick or a bore or a know-it-all or if I'd like to have a beer with them. I care about issues. I care about whether they're going to solve problems or create more. The superficial means nothing to me. I can say in total honesty that when I opine that America will not vote a woman or a black man in as President I am not projecting any personal prejudice at all. My everyday life experiences tell me what the deal is.

Neither is a factor for me in the slightest.

Here in Europe, there have been female heads of state/government
in Germany, Ireland, Norway, Finland, and Great Britain, and I
probably have left one or two out in my haste. All of those
countries are still standing, last I looked. The only reason there
hasn't been an African president yet is, well, most Europeans are
European (DUH!).

when they mentioned Barbara Jordan and Shirley Chisholm. Shirley was a real fighter--Cynthia McKinney is also a real fighter. Barbara was one of the greatest speakers of the last century.

Gobama!

I would have voted for Barbara Jordan in a heartbeat.

I have often suggested Barbara Lee or Maxine Waters as potential vps. Of course, those suggestions don't get much respect, but those are another 2 fine women that have my support.

Even more shocking for DUers, I LIKE Cynthia McKinney and may still cast a vote for her.

In '04, my #2 and #3 during the primaries were Moseley Braun and Sharpton.

During the 80s and 90s, before he retired, I regularly helped elect a black man to my local school board, in a conservative red area.

Color and gender are not factors that decide my vote. When people ask me to list potential vice president picks, or other candidate choices, I will generally choose more women and people of color when I make suggestions, because we are currently out of balance.

My final choices, though, are always going to be based on issues and record.

the situation. All that matters is whether the individual is qualified and will do the best he/she can for the nation.

Qualified, to me, means intelligence, compassion, passion, knowledge and some wisdom. (Of course there are Constitutional qualifications as well, Citizenship & age...etc).

White, Black, Hispanic, Asian, Amer-Indian, male, female...should make no difference. The only thing that should matter, is what will the individual do for the betterment of the nation as a whole, seeking equality, justice and having the vision to take on problems before they become out of control.

Someone's race or gender will not preclude that person from being a good, strong leader of our country. If Obama or Clinton get the nomination, I will gladly vote for either one in the general election.

would your neighbor vote for one:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/john-zogby/report-card-on-prejudice-_b_57558.html

African-American women in Congress than for Barack Obama.

NOTE: I DID vote for Jesse Jackson in the 1988 Oregon primary, as did 39% of other Oregon Democrats.

I think it was CBS.. I was channel surfing.. when they showed some young white male (sounded like southern accent) saying: "Well, I just wouldn't vote for... ::long pause::: a colored man." My jaw dropped. Yeah, you know they're out there, but jesushchrist... why showcase bigotry on the Nightly Fucking News???

I voted for a woman in Dutch elections for parliament last year, and I would do it again. The only thing that counts is: does he/she represent the people's best interests?

though I'm not excited about Obama or Clinton. It's their policies that I dislike, not their skin color or sex.

I'd vote for a pink and purple polka-dotted transgendered candidate ~ but unfortunately there's still a shitload of white assholes in our country who won't vote for either a black man or a woman. That worries me a little.

it's our job to get them out to vote and see to it that they vote in much larger numbers than the bigots do.

It can be done.