Some ask why the sudden Obama bashing...here's a clue (pic)

It's one thing to use ones faith to do positive things, it's another to claim "God told me to strike at Iraq."

wth is he talking about with that?

Some people believe that the "Kindgom of God" was a metaphor for doing just that. Not everyone of "faith" is a Biblical literalist, thankfully.

church-type language.

way :)

But I applaud her for trying.

Faith is irrelevant, except as an excuse.

Maybe we should get rid of that, too.

I understand what you are saying, but what does faith, embracing ignorance, suspending reason, have to do with democracy?

I don't think the comparison fits at all.

-personman

Edit: See post #12 for my take on it.

Keep your bigoted religiophobe straw men to yourself.

"What I wish to maintain is that all faiths do harm. We may define faith as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence." - Bertrand Russell

His is approximately the same as the dictionary definition.

As I see it, that is exactly embracing ignorance and suspending reason.

If it makes you feel better to think I said it strictly because I'm a "shrill atheist" or whatever the framing is, go right ahead, but as someone who was raised Christian myself, I don't see any reason whatsoever I should sit back and take being lied to.

I see no reason I should be OK with being indoctrinated before my little brain probably even had any reasoning capacity...

I don't see any reason why I should be complicit by being silent about it, and plenty of reasons not to.

If you try to teach your kid 2+2=5, CPS will probably get on your ass, and rightly so...teach them irrational beliefs ranging from sky people to the age of the earth, existence of dinosaurs, god's hatred of gays/poor/dissent/thought... and people will say "Oh so-and-so? They're a good Christian from a good Christian family...Fine, Upstanding folks...Pillars of the community." :rolleyes:

The idea that there are great powerful multitudes of people out there, who base their entire lives around a vague, contradictory, antiquated, amoral, doctrine, which has as a prerequisite at the very least "believing things without evidence," that can be used to justify or condemn nearly anything depending on interpretation....SCARES THE HELL OUT OF ME!

It should scare anyone.

By the way:

A bigot is someone intolerant of any differing view. This is quite different from strong opposition to a specific spectrum of views. For example, my intolerance for fascism doesn't, in and of itself, make me a bigot. Opposing theistic religion doesn't, in and of itself, make me a bigot.

A phobia is by definition an irrational fear. I don't see any reason to believe my fear is irrational, and plenty of reasons to believe otherwise. Other then that though, I agree with you, religion is scary to me.

The name calling is bad enough, but the inaccuracy...:b

-personman

"If you think that your belief is based upon reason, you will support it by argument, rather than by persecution, and will abandon it if the argument goes against you. But if your belief is based on faith, you will realize that argument is useless, and will therefore resort to force either in the form of persecution or by stunting and distorting the minds of the young in what is called education. This last is peculiarly dastardly since it takes advantage of the defenselessness of immature minds. Unfortunately it is practiced in a greater or less degree in the schools of every civilized country."

-Bertrand Russell

IF that was an example of thinking.

:)

"I try not to have faith...I believe in a principle that was enunciated rather well by Bertrand Russell, which is that you should try to keep away from having irrational beliefs." - Noam Chomsky

"A man's ethical behavior should be based effectually on sympathy, education, and social ties; no religious basis is necessary. Man would indeed be in a poor way if he had to be restrained by fear of punishment and hope of reward after death." - Albert Einstein

Bertrand Russell Quotes:

"My whole religion is this: do every duty, and expect no reward for it, either here or hereafter."

"Christians hold that their faith does good, but other faiths do harm. At any rate, they hold this about the Communist faith. What I wish to maintain is that all faiths do harm. We may define 'faith' as a firm belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is evidence, no one speaks of 'faith.' We do not speak of faith that two and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence."

"Belief in God and a future life makes it possible to go through life with less of stoic courage than is needed by skeptics. A great many young people lose faith in these dogmas at an age at which despair is easy, and thus have to face a much more intense unhappiness than that which falls to the lot of those who have never had a religious upbringing. Christianity offers reasons for not fearing death or the universe, and in so doing it fails to teach adequately the virtue of courage. The craving for religious faith being largely an outcome of fear, the advocates of faith tend to think that certain kinds of fear are not to be deprecated. In this, to my mind, they are gravely mistaken. To allow oneself to entertain pleasant beliefs as a means of avoiding fear is not to live in the best way. In so far as religion makes its appeal to fear, it is lowering to human dignity."

"I am constantly asked: What can you, with your cold rationalism, offer to the seeker after salvation that is comparable to the cosy homelike comfort of a fenced dogmatic creed? To this the answer is many-sided. In the first place, I do not say that I can offer as much happiness as is to be obtained by the abdication of reason. I do not say that I can offer as much happiness as is to be obtained from drink or drugs or amassing great wealth by swindling widows and orphans. It is not the happiness of the individual convert that concerns me; it is the happiness of mankind. If you genuinely desire the happiness of mankind, certain forms of ignoble personal happiness are not open to you. If your child is ill, and you are a conscientious parent, you accept medical diagnosis, however doubtful and discouraging; if you accept the cheerful opinion of a quack and your child consequently dies, you are not excused by the pleasantness of belief in the quack while it lasted."

"If people loved humanity as genuinely as they love their children, they would be unwilling in politics as in the home to let themselves be deceived by comfortable fairy tails."

"The whole conception of God is a conception derived from the ancient Oriental despotisms. It is a conception quite unworthy of free men. When you hear people in church debasing themselves and saying that they are miserable sinners, and all the rest of it, it seems contemptible and not worthy of self-respecting human beings. We ought to stand up and look the world frankly in the face. We ought to make the best we can of the world, and if it is not so good as we wish, after all it will still be better than what these others have made of it in all these ages. A good world needs knowledge, kindliness, and courage; it does not need a regretful hankering after the past, or a fettering of the free intelligence by the words uttered long ago by ignorant men."

"I should like to believe my people's religion, which was just what I could wish, but alas, it is impossible. I have really no religion, for my God, being a spirit shown merely by reason to exist, his properties utterly unknown, is no help to my life. I have nor the parson's comfortable doctrine that every good action has its reward, and every sin is forgiven. My whole religion is this: do every duty, and expect no reward for it, either here or hereafter."

-personman

-mzmolly

upsets me in any way.

At least no more upset then I am by the other candidates irrational beliefs.

"instruments of God."

No thanks, Pastor Obama.

by people claiming to be "instruments of God"???

Define "constantly" please; I have a feeling you are not under attack 24-7.

Also explain how you are being attacked, please.

Or the "let's be overly literal and pretend to miss the point" game, for that matter.

Try someone else.

Many of the NAZIs were neo-pagans. The Soviets were atheists. Hating an entire group of people for the actions of some of their members is irrational. Obama is a Christian, but he has never called for imposing a Christian state upon the country. He has called for Christians to look to their own values of brotherly love, compassion, equality, and generosity in deciding what kind of ideal state they want to work towards. These are values I share, and I surely need their help if I want to see the state act more decently to its less powerful citizens. As an atheist, I find it a great historical curiosity that modern American Christianity is so opposed to the concept of social justice. Everything I know about Jesus tells me Christians belong at our side, not in our way.

Appalling

Meaning that I'd love to see an earth that lives in peace, harmony, and mutual regard for one another. I'm sure you recognize that Obama likely had similar sentiments in mind with his comments, but yet you felt it necessary to post your months-old photoshop project AGAIN.

Stan needs to look closer to home to detect his virus. :hi:

"A Kingdom right here on Earth." Not in some far off place, but right here, right now.

Feed the poor, heal the sick, love our children. Right here, right now.

Beautiful.