Am I the only one here who finds Biden too prone to racial gaffes to consider nominating?

I've posted before that I couldn't support Biden in the primary because of his abominable record on depriving the middle class of bankruptcy protections.

Even if that were not disqualifying for me, I'd be awfully troubled by his tendency to make racially uncomfortable gaffes.

If Biden wasn't within the margin of error from zero in the polls, he would have been eviscerated for telling the Washington Post editorial board that Iowa schools perform better than Washington DC schools because "There's less than 1 percent of the population of Iowa that is African- American. There is probably less than 4 or 5 percent that is, are minorities. What is it in Washington? So look, it goes back to what you start off with, what you're dealing with." Hey, Joe, is there any chance it's due to the fact that those DC kids are dirt poor and not because they're black?

This has an unfamiliar echo of Biden bragging that his campaign would do well in the South because "My state was a slave state."

Which, in turn, reminds people that he said Obama was "the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy."

Which is still better than when he recently said "You cannot go into a Dunkin' Donuts or a 7-Eleven unless you have a slight Indian accent." Is this YouTube moment really all that much better than the George Allen's macaca incident?

Am I the only one who's even remotely bothered by all this?

and as a minority.

What gets me the most is that he keeps making these "sl;ip ups" when he must know better.


The repeats are amazing and he is a nice guy.

I don't think you need to be worried

that many times.
Especially a seasoned politician.

If he doesn't get it by now, there is a problem somewhere.

if "bright, articulate" African Americans are surprising to Mr. Biden I suggest he needs to get out more because I have known them all my life.

Obama's ability to be articulate is a feature of the man that stands out. He's the first black candidate that has a real shot at winning one of the major Partys' nomination. Biden is not a politically correct kind of guy; you either accept that or you don't. Personally, I'm sick of fake, carefully filtered talk. It's the language of liars. There's nothing in Sen. Biden's background that smacks of racism, but plenty that demonstrates his understanding of the plight of minorities. That's why the NAACP give him a 100% rating on issues affecting African Americans. They tend to like straight shooters.

There will alway be folks who make something out of nothing, and that can't be helped. But if you look at the facts, look at the man's life, any reasonably intelligent person will conclude that Sen. Biden is a real decent guy with high moral standards in which there is no room for racial bigotry.

Obama referring to people in Iowa showing up in overalls, and him expecting them to ask a question about corn? Or saying that they are not as "ingrown"... That kind of slip-up....yeah, I see what you mean....or Obama referring to mixed races as "half breeds"....yeah, I see what you mean....

You make it sound as though he hasn't been totally committed to civil rights and equality, which is not an accurate representation. His 100% Positive NAACP rating says more than could say.

His intent was not to disparage any race, as is the intent of those who use racial SLURS.

His heart is in the right place and that's what I need to know.

May I ask why you felt the need to post this question?

Thanks.


.

discussing.

If it was an isolated comment, that would be one thing, but it seems to be a discernible pattern.

If Obama made that YouTube comment about 7-11 clerks, do you doubt that it would be front page news?

about Obama wasn't just a gaffe, it had racial overtones. Biden's comment about the 7-11 clerks wasn't just a gaffe, it had racial overtones.

Is the pattern emerging?

I am not questioning Biden's votes on racial issues (unless you note that his vote to eliminate bankruptcy protections for the middle class had a disproportionate impact on minorities):

Civil rights groups also have rallied to oppose the new law, formally called the Bankruptcy Abuse Prevention and Consumer Protection Act of 2005.

''Disadvantaged groups in our society disproportionately find themselves in bankruptcy courts as a result of economic discrimination in its many forms,'' said the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights (LCCR) in an e-mail urging members nationwide to lobby their Representatives to reject the bill.

According to LCCR, divorced women are 300 percent more likely than single or married women to find themselves in bankruptcy court because of the combined effects of lower wages, reduced access to health insurance, and the financial strain of rearing children alone.

''The proposed bill would harm hundreds of thousands of women and children who are owed child support or alimony by forcing them to compete with credit card issuers and therefore making it less likely that support payments will be made to those in need,'' the group said.

African American and Latino home owners are 500 percent more likely than white homeowners to find themselves in bankruptcy court, it added, largely due to discrimination in home mortgage lending and housing purchases and to inequalities in hiring opportunities, wages, and health insurance coverage.

this question -- was just coming back to say that.

I disagree with your view on the racial undertones, obviously, as that suggest he is a racist. I don't believe he is. I SINCERELY don't believe he is otherwise I wouldn't be supporting him.

As to the bankruptcy, I can't argue with you on that - I realize that bill has adversely affected many people, but:

''The proposed bill would harm hundreds of thousands of women and children who are owed child support or alimony by forcing them to compete with credit card issuers and therefore making it less likely that support payments will be made to those in need,'' the group said."

Biden fought for - and won - the provision that would not let a parent discharge their obligation to pay child support of s/he declared bankruptcy.

If you're trying to indicate that his vote on the bankruptcy bill had an ulterior, racial motive, then there's nothing to say.

and (in my view) inappropriate.

I am not saying he is a racist. I disbelieve that he is a racist. But I believe he is gaffe-prone, and an unfortunate number of those gaffes are racial.

As I have said, my objection to Biden is ideological. But in any consideration of a candidate's electability, I think you cannot overlook a pretty damaging (again, in my assessment) YouTube video which seems to be just one point in a pattern racial gaffes.

He is a bigot.

I think contention with Biden is similar to yours though. His bigoted statements just compound my dislike for him though. After the last 7 years I think his candidacy is a joke and I enjoy laughing at him and poking fun. He's so damn condescending to people that it's absurd. When he "apologizes" for his bigoted statements he just compounds the problems and makes it worse.

I just laugh at him because so much about him that's true is so damn funny. You don't have to try attempt to make shit up about the guy because it's all out there on the table.

He's the Mr MaGoo candidate.

He has an annoying tendency to go off half cocked and say exactly what he's thinking, which is not consistent with the diplomatic temperament required of a world leader.

And after years of the Chimp, that is the last thing we need in a leader.

After eight years of the Chimp, Joe Biden, a scholar and adept of foreign policy, a man with a passion for history and for the constitution, and with the ability to bring people together, is EXACTLY what we need in a leader.

Comparing Biden to Bush won't fly - there is no comparison. They are in different leagues intellectually, talent-wise, and in compassion.

Because shit, a ham sandwich would be a better world leader than the Chimperor. And as much as I don't like his support of that atrocious bankruptcy bill, he has some pretty fine foreign policy credentials.

I'm just saying I agree with the sentiment that Biden has this tendency to just say whatever pops in his head, and maybe that's not what we need right now.

aren't politically scripted.

I'm reminded of a person who was 'busted' using derogatory remarks regarding a race when he was unaware his conversation was being recorded. I'm not going to name names, but it alarmed me because how he was treating this group of people in 'private' was NOT how he was portraying himself publicly. I was left wondering how this person's true bias would play out in affecting this group of people if he WERE to achieve a position of power.

Although it can be cringe-making at times, Biden's propensity to be REAL makes me believe we'll absolutely know who we're dealing with.

or a case of not filtering what he is going to say. The ones I've seen are more embarrassing than they are malicious. I remember in the 1970s being shocked with the racist, anti-semitic comments and real foul language that Nixon used. (I graduated in 1972 from college, and was used to the f word in noun, verb, and adjective form in a non- offensive way. With Nixon it was the whole tone that was shocking.

HRC also made a joke where she spoke of Ghandi pumping gas in St Louis. It surprised me that such a polished speaker and someone who had been in the White House for 8 years would not think that there would be people offended.

and I believe your concerns, on the face of it, are fair ones. I am sorry I leapt to assumptions. However, I do not believe that Joe Biden poses any greater risk in this regard than any of the other candidates. Yes, he says what pops into his head. He is a straight shooter. I do believe, however, that his utterances in the past have been taken completely out of context and Joe's record seems to back this up. The Republicans will twist and spin ANYTHING a Democrat says or does, so looking for a gaffe-free candidate is a pointless endeavour. The Republicans and certain sections of the MSM will CREATE gaffes from nothing in any case. What we need is a candidate who will fight back when this happens. Biden will. Of that I am sure.

If you want a safe, poll-tested, risk-free candidate then perhaps Joe is not your man.

I want a president that other world leaders will trust.

I want a Democratic nominee that will fight back ferociously when attacked.

I want some genuine straight-talk (not the corrupted, stale, McCain version)

I want the most talented and experienced candidate in the race.

That man is Joe Biden.

Biden has been dealing with world leaders for a long time. He's a brilliant politician. Many of these gaffes are taken out of context by the overly-sensitive media that has no bearing in reality. He tells the truth, and world leaders trust him and his judgment. I cannot believe how these ridiculous charges are overhyped and brought up again and again.

How did Biden get 75 Senators to back his Iraq exit strategy? TO pass his Violence Against Women Act? The Biden Crime Bill? By misspeaking? Yeah right. You people need to GROW THE FUCK UP!

because Notre Dame has so many Irish students.

Isn't that roughly equivalent to what Biden said comparing the Iowa and DC school systems?

His "propensity" to let slip such comments is virtually nothing compared to his experience, capability, and willingness to be a real human in public.

I've got no problem with Biden. Although Kucinich is what we really need, Biden is most likely the best we can get.

I wouldn't consider Hillary or Biden a racist, but they both said a couple statements that could be misconstrued as such. People will believe what the want to believe. Unfortunately, they won't get the facts and weigh them accordingly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtGCaqOdIJ4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUC8LeZ1hM4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HcXkLbRIWw

He talks before thinking.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=3681663

I do believe this is the first "concern" thread that I've seen on Biden.. perhaps it's his showing as the DU 2nd choice candidate?

Anyway, on topic.. I don't think someone that talks as much as Biden talks is going to always say what he wants to say. Everyone makes mistakes and I dont think his are particularly telling about the man, considering his excellent record regarding minorities.

If Biden is "the DU 2nd choice candidate," that's news to me. It seems like Kucinich wins all the polls started in GD (usually followed by Edwards and Obama) and Edwards wins most the polls started here in GD-P (usually followed by Kucinich and Obama).

I'm dismayed by the support for a candidate who did so much to help rapacious credit card predators at a time of record profits by eliminating bankruptcy protections for the middle class.

and that tends to clot things up around here.

It's lame and make this a shitty venue to have a discussion.

I don't hate Biden at all. In my opinion I view him as an upper crust beltway clown and have a little fun with him from time to time. I really don't think after these last seven years he has much base support. He's done more to hurt this party than to advance it with his Bankruptcy bill votes, using Republican talking points to cut down other Dems trying to stop the war (anti-Troop) and his racial statements are just devastating.

Me posting that here is not going to effect the primary or the opinions of people remotley involved. People don't come here for info on the candidates.

I see this place more as a bar where people get together and shoot the shit about the candidates. I think using this board for campaigning purposes is stupid. Even if it served as a viable venue, some people here do more to hurt their own candidates than the candidates themselves.

Of course that's hard to imagine with Joe Biden.

I don't think he is a racist.

Major difference in the two. Racists generally turn their bigotry into action.

But his bigoted statements are just nasty.

and the only reason why it isn;t made more of an issue is because he's too low profile and has no chance of success, and if he were to somehow turn things around and become a viable candidate, he'd get mowed down just as soon as his head popped up.

Still, my objection to Biden isn't a matter of electability. It's a matter of my strong opposition to his anti-consumer vote for the bankruptcy bill.

but has he apologized for and acknowledged the mistake of his IWR vote?

Peace,

freefall

dupe delete

if the media hadn't played them up. Same with Hillary's "cackle", that was actually a "laugh", the infamous Dean Scream, Obama's failure to wear a "flag pin", Kerry's "wind surfing", Al Gore's "invented the Internet", Edwards $400 haircut, etc.

Sounds like a lot of people are letting the media pick the nominee. If these issues are important to voters, then democracy is in trouble.

Come to think of it...that wasn't a compliment. lol

People need to wake up and quit paying attention to mindless crap. There is too much at stake to be dissecting every phrase that someone says.

Good to see you!

:)

but this pattern of blathering without thinking first would make Biden among our least eletable candidates.

should learn to manage their money better.

costs, (2) divorce -- particularly including the failure of an ex-spouse to make legally required child support payments after a divorce, and (3) the unexpected loss of a job.

None of these factors is the result of poor money management.

Your second "reason" just happens to be the reason HE voted in FAVOR of the bill. You're using the very thing he fought so hard for, to get the alimony money, and child support for WOMEN, who have had to go without those payments, while the shitsack men filed a BK.

Now I really know you don't know what the fuck the bill was about. Your ignorance of that fact proves it. Just fucking read it, and learn. Open your EYES.

In Joe Biden's own words, from the floor of the senate, and why he supported the bill;



"I am here again today to show that, contrary to a lot of the rhetoric that has been tossed around, this bill actually improves the situation of women and children who depend on child support. It specifically targets the problems they face under the current bankruptcy system into a virtual extension of the current national family support collection system."

" There may be other aspects of this legislation that we can debate: the balance between creditors and debtors, between different kinds of creditors, or between different kinds of debtors. But on the question of child support and alimony, there should be no dispute.

Because this bill strengthens the collection of alimony. Period."

"Over the many years we have discussed this bill, it has earned the support of the National Child Support Enforcement Association, which represents over 60,000 child support professionals."


When a deadbeat dad files for bankruptcy under the current system, what happens to mom and the kids?

Well, if the dad is actually making the payments, those payments stop. That's right, the payments stop cold. Mom then has to find a lawyer or a government advocate, take time off of work, and go to bankruptcy court to try to get those payments started again. And when she goes to court, her claim may not be heard that day, so she'll have to return again and again... or if she's late, she'll miss her day in court.

What else happens under current law? When dad's bill collectors show up in bankruptcy court, mom has to fight with them over dad's assets. There's a good chance that mom not only needs her payments started again, but she is due past support--support payments dad never made last month, last year. She needs him to pay her back for all the payments he failed to make.

And in asserting her claim, she is not the “Number 1" collector in line. Under current law, she is Number 7. That's right – Not So Lucky Number 7. The current Code permits other bill collectors to beat her in the race to get at dad's assets. The current law handicaps her at the starting line. She is forced to wage a fight to make sure she and the kids receive their due.

And what happens after she fights it out with the bill collectors? Well, under the current system, she might be lucky and get every dollar due. But, she may only get a portion of what is due or she may not get one red cent.

That's not right. If a bankrupt household is a sinking ship, then women and children should be protected first. This is what the current law fails to do, but it is what this bill does: it puts women and children first.

S. 256 dictates that even if he files for bankruptcy, dad must continue making those support payments that mom needs to feed and clothe her children. Under this bill, women and children will continue to receive their support payments during bankruptcy, while everybody else, from the credit card bank to the department store, waits for the bankruptcy judge's final order and plan.

That alone would be a major improvement over current law. But that is just the beginning of the advances of this bill over current law.

This bill makes mom “Number 1" and places her ahead of all the bill collectors on her past-due claim. No other bill collector--not the credit card company, not the car loan company, not the student lenders--can jump ahead of a mother and her children. Every other bill collector must stand in line behind the family.

What is so great about the continuation of payments and making mom “Number 1"? As a practical matter, she doesn't have to find room in her hectic schedule to make appearances in a federal bankruptcy court--an intimidating place for most people. She can go to work without interrupting her day. She can complete her errands and pick up her kids after school. Under the bill, she will be automatically first in line on her claims and she will continue to receive her payments during bankruptcy.

When we pass this bill, she does not have to work her way through the bankruptcy system. The system will work for her, not against her.

servicemembers and veterans? Biden was one of only six Democrats who voted against this pro-military and pro-consumer protection.

Is that why Biden refused to support Kennedy's amendment to preserve bankruptcy protections for those who were bankrupted by medical costs? Biden was one of only six Democrats who refused to support this pro-consumer protection.

Is that why Biden voted AGAINST Feingold's amendment to preserve the elderly's protection against foreclosure on their homes? Biden was one of only three Democrats who voted against this pro-consumer protection.

The man has been in the senate for 35 years and the same 3 or 4 examples are used to illustrate his "tendency". Biden is known as a "tell it like it is" kind of guy, and it's one of the reasons I admire him so much. Unfortunately, "tell it like it is" candidates like Biden are an unheard phenomonon on today's political scene so the critics and pundits are always looking to read between lines that simply aren't there. Everyone is looking for the hidden message or meaning behind his statements and in my opinion there simply isn't one.

Once when asked by Bill O'Reilly if a "northeastern liberal" could win. That was fairly innocuous.

The second was more worrying. He said something along the lines of "Delaware tried to be part of the Confederacy, we (he used "we") just couldn't because Maryland was in the way".

Obama is one obvious possibility. Does anyone have any other suggestions?