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SaveElmer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:45 PM
Original message
Obama vs. Obama....
February Obama...

Feb 7, 2007


Every single Democrat who speaks before you today is going to have something important and valuable to offer. Over the next year of a primary and the next two years leading to the election of the next president, the campaigns...

... the campaigns shouldn't be about making each other look bad, they should be about figuring out how we can all do some good for this precious country of ours.

That's our mission.

And in this mission, our rivals won't be one another, and I would assert it won't even be the other party. It's going to be cynicism that we're fighting against.


November Obama...


Sen. Obama: “Her response was certainly inadequate…She can release these papers…I think she was being disingenuous.”

Q: “What's the difference between disingenuous and dishonest?” Obama: “You'll have to ask her.”


The February Obama was certainly alot more compelling...I hope he is still lurking in there someplace...

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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
1. I think his record does not match his rhetoric
He has missed 80% of the votes in the Senate this year alone. Feels like I only have one Senator.
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ccpup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I've always wondered how
his Constituents feel being railroaded with promises to get their vote to put him in the Senate only to be ignored immediately after as he makes his run for President? I mean, has he done ANYTHING for those he represents, kept ANY of the promises he's made?

At least Hillary has a solid Senate Term behind her where she DID do things for those who elected her. But 'bama? I don't think so.

Might make a good commercial. "Where's Obama and what has he done for YOU lately?"
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. How do Hillary's constituents feel about her decision to run for a second term...
When she knew she was going to run for President? Wouldn't they rather have a full time Senator?

In both cases, the answer is that their constituents really don't give a shit, as shown by the fact that they both consistently have approval ratings in the high 60's or low 70's. IMO, the prospect of having a President from your home state is too appealing to worry about your Senator not devoting his or her full attention to the job.

And I find it funny that this "Obama ignores his constituency" bullshit seems to always be coming from people who don't live in Illinois.
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ronnykmarshall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:46 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. They re-elected her didn't they?
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DemKR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Have you seen the election results of Nov. 2006 recently? She never pledged to
serve out her full term (unlike Sen. Obama)

Sen. Barack Obama in 2006 from the BBC News:

"Barack Obama has acknowledged he has considered running for US president in 2008, despite earlier claims he would serve as senator until 2010. These earlier claims were given to us when we Illinoisans put him in office in 2004.

You have to understand. I AM a constituent. I have had it up to here with him and hope someone runs against him in 2010's primary. He is missing countless votes just to advance his career.

"Given the responses I've been getting... I have thought about the possibility," the Democrat said on NBC. The media turned him into a 'rockstar' and it's getting to his head.

The fact that any of you at DU would even consider voting for someone who gives anti-gay right wing religious nutjobs the time of day is beyond me. You all have the right to your views and your vote, but don't complain when Obama makes his administration full of Falwells in the name of unity.
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creeksneakers2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Hillary was challenged to promise she wouldn't run
Hillary responded by saying she couldn't promise not to run. Hillary advised her constituents that if they'd vote against her knowing she would run, then they should vote against her not being certain what she'd do.

Everything was up front with Hillary. Did the question ever come up with Obama?
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Nailzberg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. Your facts need checking.
The 80% figure (actually 78.4%) that's being tossed around only represents his record since coming back from the August break. If you count all votes for this year, Obama's absentee rate drops to 33.7%

Here are the absentee rates for the current Democratic Senators running for President:
Since Sept 4
Obama 78.4%
Biden 66.6%
Dodd 64.7%
Clinton 63.7%

For all 2007
Biden 35.4%
Dodd 33.9%
Obama 33.7%
Clinton 18.4%

For historical reference, here's John Kerry's absentee rate:
post break 2003 80.4%
entire 2003 64.0%

Sen. Clinton's absentee rate is quite low, but she also benefited from pre-established brand saturation, so she didn't need to work the stump as often in the beginning of her campaign. Her absentee rate is rising to meet the rest of the candidates as the race tightens.

But really, the entire absentee rate debate is useless and is more typical of GOP mudslinger tactics. Because all the candidates at this point are missing the majority of the votes.
What is more important than how many votes a candidate misses, is which votes they missed or made. Was the vote contested, or was it not close? Did the Senator miss a critical vote?
The party leadership and the campaign leaderships keep the Senators out on the campaign trail pretty well informed of when they are needed to vote. All the candidates have friends in the leadership, so they all know when they are needed back in DC.


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goodgd_yall Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:47 PM
Response to Original message
8. I think any idea a candidate has to stay "above the fray"
isn't going to last long. When the ambition to be president is strong, the candidates stop playing nice. I don't see a problem with it. I take it all with a grain of salt as part of the campaign game. Dirty personal attacks in the style of the Swiftboat Idjits for Truth is another thing though, IMO. That would be another matter and would definitely affect my support for a candidate if he or she was the one using that kind of cutthroat tactic.
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bgb217 Donating Member (57 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. True, but...
You cannot say that you're going to stay above the fray, like Barack did, and then jump right into it.
One of the legion of reasons I will never cast a vote for him, for any office.
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