Defense 2 Edwards Big Giant House

He worked very hard. Took on some big corporations, and beat the crap out of them.

He made a lot, I mean A LOT, of money. With some of it, he built a great big house,
for him, Elizabeth and all the kids.

Get over it.

As always, I'm willing to discuss my position on this non-issue with any of you.


Edwards, In Front of His Big Giant House

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/asdjrocky

southern White House. Just saying!

zalinda

Maybe the people of NC know something, and that's why he's moving up in the poll there.

And if he gets the nom, it's going to matter.

Like there is a single pug he would be running against who isn't filthy rich?

He'll be painted as saying the people should sacrifice when he isn't. I'm not saying it's right...but it will be done. They will run it into the ground. It's something I think he can handle, if prepared for it, but it will be an issue...

Wow... this is unreal. Where did all of these reasonable people come from?

:D

:hi:

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying, but if I do, I'm pretty sure I disagree.

Because what is he saying "the people" should sacrifice? He may be saying the corporations, their lobbyists, and the top 1% need to sacrifice, but if he falls into whatever income level he may raise taxes for, he then will be sacrificing.

I just don't get the connection between having made money and not being able to speak for the poor. Not all wealthy people are greedy bastards. Look at "liberal" Hollywood. They're some of the wealthiest people we've got, and they're willing to do their share. Look at Warren Buffet.

But like I said, I may have completely missed your point, so please elaborate if you like.

None of the pugs are advocating for poor people or environmental concerns, let alone climate change. None have asked Americans to make sacrifices such as giving up SUVs while living in a 28,000 sq ft. house. The ads write themselves. Seriously, rocky, I'm not saying this out of any anti-Edwards sentiment. It's what I see happening if he gets the nom.

But I do kind of see this as a paper tiger. I could be wrong, but that's my take.

??????????????

The Kennedy brothers were born into money, and grew up as children at the Kennedy compound at Hyannis Port. They did not initiate the Kennedy family compound:

"In 1926 Joseph P. rented a summer cottage on Marchant Avenue in Hyannis Port. Three years later, he purchased the structure, which had been erected in 1904, and enlarged and remodeled it to suit his family's needs. In and around this house, the children spent their summers, acquiring a lifelong interest in sailing and other competitive activities. In 1956, or 3 years after his marriage, John F. bought a smaller home of his own on Irving Avenue, not far from that of his father. Subsequently, Robert F. acquired a residence adjacent to the other two.

All three buildings, none of which are accessible to the public, are white frame clapboarded structures typical of vacation residences on Cape Cod. The Joseph P. Kennedy home, the largest and most impressive of the three, is surrounded by well-tended lawns and gardens and commands sweeping views of the ocean from its long porches. On the main floor are a living room, dining room, sun room, television room, the bedroom that President Kennedy used before he purchased his own house in the compound, the kitchen, and various pantries and utility rooms. On the second floor are six bedrooms, a sewing room, packing room, and four servants' bedrooms. The attic is a full one. The basement contains a motion-picture theater and sauna. On the grounds are an enclosed swimming pool, tennis court, and four-car garage. The house has changed little, either structurally or in furnishings, since John F. Kennedy's association with it."

The father, Joseph Kennedy, by far had the most grandiose home of those associated with the Kennedy family compound.
http://www.nps.gov/history/history/online_books/Presidents/site30.htm

One point is that the Kennedy brothers did not clear forest and break new ground to build their own homes. John and Robert bought pre-existing structures. Many Americans are much more environmentally conscious now than in the late 50's. It stands out more today, especially for a Liberal Democrat in politics, to bull doze a large swath of land to build a massive brand new compound. Politically, the Kennedy's were super rich as infants, no one could fault their life choices that brought them such wealth, though Joe Kennedy did come in for some abuse.

Politics is fame to a large extent, and politicians become celebrities in a way. Personal decisions are magnified and examined in a public spotlight, that simply comes with the territory. No one says it is fair but it is predictable. Because Rudy didn't melt on camera while he was mayor of NYC after 9/11, suddenly large numbers of people consider him an expert on national security. And because John Edwards built a ground up large personal compound while campaigning as the voice of the poor in America, there are those who will accuse him of being a hypocrite. It may not be fair, but it is predictable, and to the extent that it damages John Edwards political image - however small or large that extent may be, it was a self inflicted wound, and those are to be avoided whenever possible in the career of politics.

Same thing said about Edwards.

:eyes:

My problem with the house is entirely along environmental lines, and his call for Americans to make sacrifices such as giving up SUVs. And I don't think people have a clue as to how big this house is. I do.

Live the change you want to see.

But Friends of the Earth Action support him, and he gets good marks on his environmental record.

A couple of our candidates have two or three houses, plus huge offices, that too, is an impact.

Just my opinion.

(this is humor, folk; you gotta admit it looks a bit scalped here)

Maybe that's an old pic, you know, before he had the illegal aliens do the landscaping.

illegal aliens to do work...

:eyes:

I think it was back in 1999, before he "changed". :evilgrin:

But all that clear-cutting took place a little over a year ago; during the spring and summer of 2006.

C'mon; leaf him alone. This makes him sooooo much better than George Washington.

and taking matching campaign funds. I'd say he won't be bought off.

does anyone need a house that big. And, it's ugly as hell.

And where in the South is it so cold that you have to have a passageway between buildings?

someone else got some plans and someone else added their ideas and then the kids had some ideas of their own. Anyway...that's what it looks like.
I can't conceive of any Architect designing that rambling house...but obviously the Edwards' like it and that's all that really matters....can't please everyone...but it shouldn't distract from his campaign. Other candidates and congress people have huge elaborate homes too.

My question is WHY does anyone want a house with 25000+ square feet? What's with that?

If a person includes barns, possibly a covered pool, and housing in between house and barn for storage, helps' living quarters, it could easily be 25,000 sq. ft.

Not an Edwards supporter but this is not a shocking outlay. At one time, before the tornado took some of my "stuff" I just figured I had about 18,000 sq. ft. of 1 house and 2 barns. Believe me, we were not and are not rich by any stretch. One house and one barn, gone with the wind. We all have neighborhoods with 4 to 8,000 sq. ft. homes. I sure don't hold that against them. That is what Edwards is saying, people need a chance to succeed and our present govt. could care less about educating the lowly ones. Edwards does.

Biden supporter here, by the way.

I really like the positions Edwards has taken in this race, but from time to time I have wondered how much ego plays into his run ~ I've given him the benefit of the doubt, but in my experience those who need gigantic houses (even the 4000+ sq. ft. ones you mention) usually are trying to prove something.

size basketball ct plus a 2,000 sq ft study are all attached to the main house. You may have had 18,000 sq ft, but I'm willing to bet your barns weren't heated. I know big houses- I grew up in New Canaan CT. And it's really about environmental issues and his call for Americans to make sacrifices. As Gandhi said: Live the change you want to be.

It's just that his house doesn't appear to be outrageously big. Everything is attached so maybe that is the how they come up with the sq. footage. He may have planned the place for special events, being political and all. Most of us are not in that league. His wife's condition may factor in to the goodies like pools, etc.. It could all have been built enviromentally friendly?

:shrug:

Why is that lie so very important to you????

Answer that truthfully.

"The rambling structure sits in the middle of a 102-acre estate on Old Greensboro Road west of Chapel Hill. The heavily wooded site and winding driveway ensure that the home is not visible from the road. “No Trespassing” signs discourage passersby from venturing past the gate.

Don Knight, Orange County building plans examiner, told CJ that, including the recreational building, the Edwardses’ home would be one of the largest in Orange County.

Knight approved the building plans that showed the Edwards home totaling 28,200 square feet of connected space. The main house is 10,400 square feet and has two garages. The recreation building, a red, barn-like building containing 15,600 square feet, is connected to the house by a closed-in and roofed structure of varying widths and elevations that totals 2,200 square feet.

The main house is all on one level except for a 600-square-foot bedroom and bath area above the guest garage.

The recreation building contains a basketball court, a squash court, two stages, a bedroom, kitchen, bathrooms, swimming pool, a four-story tower, and a room designated “John’s Lounge."

http://www.carolinajournal.com/exclusives/display_exclusive.html?id=3848

Repeating the same "misstatement", over and over, when you've been shown to be wrong..... isn't that like something we criticize the "other side" for doing?

It doesn't smell any better when "our side" does it.

Enough.

and every structure in it is heated/cooled and fitted with electricity. Everything's connected to what looks like a typical "house" part, so I don't think it's wrong to consider the whole thing as his dwelling, or house.

It's clear you are against Edwards, but being so silly about it doesn't put you in a very good light.

I repeat... take your argument to the government entity that worded the property description. And, while you're at it, picket the Kennedys and others for their "compounds", eh?

I haven't said a word about Edwards' home other than it's not environmentally sound. (and that was a long time ago) Whatever you call it, he's paying energy bills for the whole damned thing.

If you went off topic, so be it.

I don't know where you're going with this. It's a 28,000 sq ft continuous structure. If you want to linguistically distinguish the house part fine, but the other structures contain a lounge or den, bathrooms, stages, bedrooms, a kitchen, an indoor swimming pool and more. They can live comfortably in those structures without ever stepping foot in the "house" part.

:crazy:

the facts are the facts: It's a 28,000 sq ft house. There is no such thing as a house that size that makes any sense environmentally, and you are simply another apologist. JE has asked Americans to make sacrifices. It looks like he doesn't consider that he needs to.

You were shown the DEED wording, remember?

"you are simply another apologist"

And the rules forbid me saying what you are, so get some facts, and, while you're at it, learn some manners.

Cupcake. Sweetie pie.

poor you. temper, temper. The fact is that a 28,000 sq ft house is not and cannot be environmentally sound. Don't like facts? continue being an apologist, honeybuns.

p.s. the deed doesn't mean jackshit. The size of the house is incompatible with environmentally sound principles.

Not to someone who comes to DU to attack.

You must be one hell of a real estate expert.

:hi:

that's very green, and I donate what I can. Nor am I a politician, preaching to the public. See the difference?

:rofl:

Namely, poise and common courtesy. The Edwards have you beat by a country mile!

I'm discussing politics, giving my opinion. Oh, and you're the one throwing out the personal insults, sweetums.

sensible.

:rofl:

You deny in another post that a house can be environmentally correct .

I think it's got an indoor movie theater, a gym, and staff quarters, but it's been a while so I don't properly remember.

At any rate, it ain't holding hay, cattle, and the John Deere. :P

The cowboys would gather around our old John Deere, pull up plastic chair, plugged in the tv and adjusted the rabbit ears, filled the ice chest with beer, turn on the fans and discuss the current game on tv and their worthless horses for hours. Business and pleasure being conducted right there in our tin bar that included a toilet and sink. It's all relative. OK, so their "barn" cost more than all I own.....

Just having fun with the issue of John's house. It all just seems none of our business. I have no doubt that any one of our Dem candidates doesn't truly care about the environment and helping people that need help educating their kids, keeping the vultures from raping the public.

"Son of a mill worker, and look at me now baby"! He needs a house that big to keep his ego in. He's got the money, he can spend it how he chooses, but it is, IMO, ostentatiously vulgar.

You know, this makes me admire her. She has done well for herself.

What kind of House Edwards lives in is a non issue.

He is doing a great job representing Middle Class and Poor.
This is important to me. Southern WH sounds good.

The one in New York.

I asked above WHY anyone would want a 25000+ sq. ft. house and nobody answered. Just playing devil's advocate.

has quite an ego. As far as "why" JE wants something? I'll ask him when I see him?

I honestly don't know what to say to that question.

As to why he wants to be President, I believe it's because he wants to make the country a better place.

and I see the usual detractors are here. Love ya!

K&R!

as is sucking up 1/3 or more of the remuneration for the sick and injured.

I have always loathed that Democrats think that shit is OK. If a good lawyer cannot make it on a paltry 5-700 an hour, he is nothing but an exploiter wolf wrapping himself in the kindness of sheep's clothing.

I'd have infinitely more respect for Edwards than my already considerable respect (I'll probably support him when the opportunity comes in my area) if he would advocate to stop this despicable wealth transfer racket trial lawyers have going.

And with the planet on fire, yes his "house" in INEXCUSABLE - not to mention the vast CLEAR CUT around it.

I've seen the pictures of his property from the air and thats a small
pasture - field compared to similar properties. Thats about
10 acres at best. Good for a few horses and a garden.
Clear cutting is removing every tree in
multiple hundreds of acres or whole mountainsides.

Did you notice the existing trees? Immature poplar. The whole area was cut over
maybe 20 years earlier. Trees are a crop in much of the eastern
forests. Some people grow corn every year. Others grow trees every
20 some years. It's a very green way to manage land.

The house? It's a ranch style. They are supposed to sprawl.
The same thing as a 3 story brick colonial (minus garage) wouldn't
look all that large.
It's going to be the Southern WH when John goes on R&R. He'll
need all that room for advisor's, visitors, press, etc. Compared
to W's pig farm "ranch", it's almost park like.

The Big House talking point is so lame.

Got Haircut?

If you live another 20 years, you'll see that is true.

People, Americans in particular, are so fucking full of shit on climate change. This is an emergency that warrants outlawing SUVs and houses like that and a million other things. But then the house of cards consumer economy sham would come apart and damage the OILigarchical Evil Empire. We can't have that.

In my neck of the woods (which is his neck of the woods), we call that moon-scaping". By the way, he pulled strings to do all that clear-cutting. Why in the heck didn't he buy himself a farm somewhere? There are plenty around.

The last two Democratic Presidents did just fine without their dreams of a "Southern Whitehouse". Jimmy Carter had his Peanut farm and a small ranchhouse and Bill Clinton, at the time, had nothing.

and somehow Bush manages to get all those dignitaries, press etc. in there. And what's wrong with Camp David anyway?

was Stolen

... Oh, and that "homey ole ranch house?" It's actually a 10,000-square-foot single level mansion/compound that won't even be 2 years old until this November! ... http://archive.democrats.com/view.cfm?id=6687

so the "fakeness" of the ranch is not new to me. But I am a bit confused about the size. When I did a search this evening to see what size the ranch was, the number that kept showing up for the ranch was 4,000 sq. ft. Now, this article says 10,000. So which is it?

This article says 4,000.

<<snip

"By marketplace standards, the house is startlingly small," says David Heymann, the architect of the 4,000-square-foot home. "Clients of similar ilk are building 16-to-20,000-square-foot houses."

snip>>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2001-04-13-bush-house.htm

pictures of a rustic looking place incorrectly identified as *'s residence, though it is actually one of several other houses on the property. The real thing is the large bright-roofed boomerage-shaped object in the aerial photo. The ground photos I find of it typically don't show the whole thing and are often taken from an angle that masks the building size.

http://cryptome.org.nyud.net:8090/bush-ranch-005.jpg

but I still don't find any articles other than the Democrats.com one that you posted that show the size of the house as anything but 4,000 sq. ft.

Is this supposed to be okay? :shrug:

... Bush constructed a single-level ranch house on 10,000 square feet ...

http://business.baylor.edu/Tom_Kelly/The%20Impact%20of%20President%20Bush%20on%20McLennan%20County.htm

the clear cutting and the haircut just spell out some character flaws to me.

above me.....Reply #28. :)

He knew he was running for president when he built this thing.

If he was going to build a brand new house, which is problematic for the environment itself, it should have been an environmental showpiece. It is the polar opposite.

I do not give a crap what he does with his money and that is not my issue with the house.

Have you ever built a house? Don't you start out with modest plans and then everything seems to mushroom on you? I think most of us who have had a house built end up with one larger than we had planned. But most of us stop at some point because there are limitations on our money.

Now imagine that there are no limitations on your money. You start out to build a nice, big house with recreational options on site. And then the architects come in, and the plans get bigger and better. You also live in an extremely small college town where your every move in public is known. You have already lost a teenaged son through a tragic automobile accident and you want to be very protective of your children, especially the two grade school kids. You can't just let them play basketball in the town square when you are possibly the next President of the United States. You, through your good work for the people of your country, have angered powerful interests. You need your privacy and you need to keep your children safe. You have a large extended family and will definitely be an important world figure because of your fight against poverty, whether or not you become President. You expect to host important domestic and foreign dignitaries at your home. You do not live in an urban area where homes the same price must be built to fit the confines of the area. You live in an area that is rife with development and the population density is low compared to places like the northeast. You want to build your wife of 30 years her dream house and you can afford it. You build the house as energy-efficient as is reasonable for the area.

You are warned by advisors that there could be a political price to pay for doing so. But you are your own man, and you will not compromise to fit the superficialities of a presidential campaign.

Some have mentioned that he built his home because he has a big ego. Nothing could be further from the truth. This man is not running for president because of ego or because of vanity. Why would he put himself through all of this for that? He is running because he has seen first hand what a corrupt cesspool our country is becoming and he wants someone to do something before it is too late.

Judge him for many other reasons - but it is an extreme lack of critical thinking to judge him by the size of his house.

This house was not something an environmental presidential candidate should have built. It was a big bad mistake in judgement.

of 28,000 sqft. Period.

and sorry, I know quite a few people with lots of money who have built houses that are environmentally sound- and that means they aren't super McMansions. One more time: He's asked Americans to make sacrifices due to climate change. This looks hypocritical.

Because of course, there can never be too many "John Edwards lives in a big house" threads.

What's the point of the OP? This hasn't already been discussed to death?

I've stated my position before, but I'll be happy to state it again:

At exactly what square footage does the offense occur? We need guidelines so future candidates don't cross the line.

It is GOOD that a self-made man,not born of privilege, became educated, wealthy, ( even, gasp! built a big house!) and still chooses to be a Democrat and a champion of the common man.

about this. Good for the OP that he doesn't. This isn't about JE's having money and championing the cause of poverty. At least not for me. It's about JE championing environmentalism and climate change, telling Americans they need to make sacrifices, and then building a house that is the opposite of what he's preaching. Heating and cooling 28,000 sq ft uses a large amount of resources- particularly for a family of 4, even if they are prominent people.


You know what Gandhi said about change, right?

5,000 sq ft in NY $$ is the same as 28,000 sq ft in NC $$$.

I love Edward's estate. It looks so presidential, like Monticello.

It's about the environmental issue. Edwards has told Americans that they need to make sacrifices due to climate change. I agree. And yet, he builds a 28,000 sq ft house. As my friend, the green architect says, there is no such thing as an environmentally responsible house of that size. He designed my little house which truly is environmentally sensitive. And he does nothing but design environmentally sound buildings.

Secondly, it depends where in NY or CT. In the town I grew up in, New Canaan, CT, a 5,000 sq ft home can't be bought for less than 3 or 4 million- that's still less than 6+ million- but that's all incidental anyway, as it has nothing whatsofuckingever to do with the point I'm making.

I understand that you're defensive, but try and stay on issue: It's about the environment, not the amount of money spent. If JE had spent 6+ million bucks building a 5,000 sq ft cutting edge environmenatally SANE house, I'd be applauding him.

I'm reaching.

:rofl:

Just having a little fun. Every night, for the next few, I'm defending Edwards on many of the things I've seen him attacked on here on DU. That was number 2, not sure what I will do tonight.

money. Go Edwards!!!!

An ugly ecologically indefensible structure- particulularly in light of his call for Americans to make sacrifices in the name of the environment/climate change. Plus, there's a perfectly good presidential retreat: It's called Camp David. The Clintons managed with Camp David and the White House. This is not neccessary and it won't save money. That's crap.