Hillary to Students: Don't Vote

http://news.aol.com/political-machine/2007/12/05/hillar... /

Hillary to Students: Don't Vote
By Matt Singer
Dec 5th 2007 7:05PM


Full disclosure: My day-to-day job is in organizing young people, including college students, in politics: motivating them on campaigns, educating them on issues, getting 'em out to the polls.

From this perspective, there is little more infuriating than hearing the Democratic frontrunner for President knocking the right of students to participate as Hillary Clinton did recently, parroting a typically rightwing argument that student voters are somehow illegitimate voters.

The reason for this, of course, is that college students in Iowa are clearly trending for Barack Obama. That apparently means that now is the time for Hillary to start indicating that they are unfit for the democratic process. But what is clear is that any Democratic nominee will be relying heavily on the youth and student vote -- and students ought to think twice about helping out a fairweather friend.Here's reality. In 2004, voters under the age of 30 made up 17% of the electorate -- and they voted for John Kerry over George W. Bush by a margin of 54 to 45%. In 2008, odds are they'll make up a larger share of the electorate and they may go even more Democratic.

By every indication, until recently, Hillary's operation understands this. That's why she gave a speech at Wellesley recently imploring students to get registered and to vote. That was before her recent change of heart, when she apparently decided that students should not register and vote in the Iowa caucuses because, you know the caucuses are for "people who live , people who pay taxes "

Newsflash for the Senator from New York: Students do live in Iowa (at least nine months a year) and they also pay sales tax there.

Luckily, youth organizations are not taking this lying down. The Young Democrats of America are encouraging young Iowans, including college students, to caucus. Rock the Vote has launched Rock the Caucus to get young Iowans, including students, to participate in both the Republican and Democratic caucuses.

Hillary Clinton's campaign needs to ask itself: is declaring war on a key Democratic constituency a smart way of winning the primary?

Among other reasons. She's approaching the shark.

The only way Obama wins Iowa is if he can get enough students from Illinois to come back from their homes there over winter break to stack the Iowa caucuses. His own campus handouts target these students with instructions on how to vote in Iowa quoting here: "If You Are Not From Iowa..."
The propagandist discloses his partisanship in the first line of the "news" story.
At least that bit was true...

Obama's Illiniois legions are a complete myth invented by Clinton's people.

If a student does not live in Iowa then she or he will not be allowed to caucus in Iowa.

But I don't think it is fair to suggest that their folks should also live in Iowa.

There's nothing wrong with students visiting their folks at Christmas time.

Whether their folks live in Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota or wherever.

What part of "If you are not from Iowa" is so hard for you to understand?

Otherwise what's to stop everyone in the MidWest from taking part in the Iowa caucuses? :eyes:

But they can vote? That's nuts.

and if it was a general election instead of a primary you know perfectly well you would support this law.

These students have as much to right under the law as the next state.

You're getting away from the issue using "sour grapes". If students liked HRC, they'd vote in the majority for her. Same or BO.

a student in Texas, I caucused in Texas. (I was even a delegate to the Tarrant County Convention).

While I was from Tennessee, I lived year long in Texas. During the holiday breaks, I stayed in Texas because I worked at a job to help pay my tuition, housing expenses, etc.

The law allowed me to caucus in Texas, because that's where I lived.

It's the same for students in Iowa. The last time I checked, being a student doesn't take one's rights as a citizen of the country away from one.

you cannot say anything bad about Empress clinton. her supporters will not listen to any criticism of her holiness.

Now, repeat after me, before they catch you.

"Hillary Clinton is the smartest, most liberal Democratic candidate possible. Her election is inevitable. She stands for the people and never plants questions at her rallies. She's also never taken any contribution from moneyed interests in her campaign. She remains, therefore, immune from influence from corporations."

Keep saying it...cmon...move it...keep saying it, before the Clintonstapo arrives...:hide:

I'm sure both are funny over in Freeperland. Here, not so much.

:thumbsdown:

the laws of DU :sarcasm:

I'm no fan of Hillary, but when people post anti-Democratic pictures pulled directly from right-wing smear sites...well, that's beyond the pale.

What's next? Are you going to tell us that Michael Savage has some really valid points? :eyes:

Grow up.

if case you didn't know, it's not agains the "laws of DU" to be against Hillary. Democrats ARE allowed to not like Mrs. Clinton...there are 6 other candidates running for the nomination.

Before you post, educate yourse.f

You're the one who brought up the "laws of DU." Having trouble keeping it all straight?

:rofl:

The fact that you think I'm one of the "Clintonstapo" because I oppose posting RW memes, smears, and pictures is hillarious.

The fact that you equate support for Hillary with being a Nazi, not so much. :thumbsdown:

Edit: Here's some real Bird-brains for you:
http://www.idrewthis.org/2007/12/i-finally-got-around-to-drawing-this.html

don't lose your day job, comedian.

nobody equated Hillary with being Nazi. I equated some of her defenders (maybe including you...depending on how you behave) as being Gestapo-like.

I've been a leftist progressive ALL my life, and I've disliked Hillary's politics since she became to campaign. Does that make my statements "rightwing memes".

THe comics are fine.

The Supreme Court says states have to presume a college address as a voting address and it's been that way for thirty years. Besides the State of Iowa and the Democratic Party of Iowa support the students' caucusing. The laws of Iowa do, too. Students live someplace 3/4 of the year and they're not familiar with it? That makes no sense. They are residents of the state while they are students, that's the law.

buy beer, pay exorbitant tuition rates, pay for waste removal, water, electricity, buy beer, go to the mall, go to the movies, buy beer... they know the area and the LIVE there. They get hassled if they try to vote in their "home" state and hassled if they try to vote where they attend school and LIVE!

As the mother of a recent graduate myself - I do get miffed at the viewpoint of these people who want to disenfranchise college-aged voters. It is ridiculous - and as I've written here before - it's right out of the Republican playbook!

---
TCB

It's the RNC that tries every election season all over the country to beat back student voting rights and it's the DNC who defends them. This was a shocking switcheroo.

In the US and Canada. In Canada, there's no such thing as absentee voting. The locals in the university's riding HATE that. Kids live there for three years, vote, thenleave.

:shrug:

:eyes:

thanks for the laugh.

He deserves some love :loveya:

My friends and I were almost all registered in the city where the university was. I remember a government & a macro econ professors even encouraging us to do so.

Just wondering how you knew that.

there are no absentee ballots. So college kids vote where their university is. As the locals see it, kids live in their town for three years, vote, then leave.

Same thing with being in the military - as my family was - and living in a state for just a year or two. The locals don't want you voting locally.

state for more than a few days before elected. If the students who have already lived in Iowa for a minimum of about 4 months (Sept - Dec), they are less Carpetbaggers than a woman who was living in DC until after she was elected. She didn't care about NY feelings.

:thumbsup:

on her road to the White House.

I guess. It does hurt NY long term as she will likely never be a Senator with serious senority.

again"..and as far as helping New York..I've been nothing but disappointed in her since 9/11 when she enrolled in her school for sychopants.

He was in the DC area in the 1950s and 1960s, but one of his childhood homes was in NY.

"Robert Francis Kennedy was born on November 20, 1925, in Brookline, Massachusetts, the seventh child of Joseph P. Kennedy and Rose Kennedy.

In September 1927, when he was almost 2, Kennedy moved with his family to a rented 20-room mansion in Riverdale, New York, then two years later, moved 5 miles northeast to a 21-room mansion on a six-acre estate in Bronxville, New York, purchased in May 1929. Kennedy spent summers with his family at their home in Hyannis Port, Massachusetts, purchased in 1929, and Christmas and Easter holidays with his family at their winter home in Palm Beach, Florida, purchased in 1933. He attended public elementary school in Riverdale from kindergarten through 2nd grade, then Bronxville School, the public school in Bronxville from 3rd through 5th grade, then Riverdale Country School, a private school for boys in Riverdale for 6th grade.

In March 1938, when he was twelve years old, Kennedy sailed on his first trip abroad on the SS Manhattan with his mother and his four youngest siblings to England where his father had begun serving as American ambassador. Kennedy attended Gibbs School for Boys at 134 Sloane Street in London for 7th grade, returning to the United States just before the outbreak of World War II in Europe.

In September 1939, for 8th grade, Kennedy was sent 200 miles away from home to St. Paul's School, an elite private university preparatory boarding school for boys in Concord, New Hampshire, but he did not like it there and his mother thought it too Episcopalian, so after two months at St. Paul's, Kennedy transferred to Portsmouth Priory School, a Benedictine boarding school for boys in Portsmouth, Rhode Island, 140 miles from home for 8th through 10th grades. In September 1942, Kennedy transferred to Milton Academy, an elite private university preparatory boarding school in Milton, Massachusetts, 170 miles from home for 11th and 12th grade.

(Wikipedia Bio)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I recall correctly, there were objections in 1968 on this, but he won anyway - as HRC did.

The point was NOT that she did anything wrong, it was legal, but it does make her campaign's comment that the out of state kids are not long term Iowans hypocritical.

I voted there, went to school there, shopped there, worked there, drove there. It was the city I lived in for 4 years.

'Locals' need to get some perspective.

If the halfwits are pissed that the students keep the town alive and not some dustbowl by spending lots of money in the town's local economy and perhaps even bringing some cultural events there, then they shove it.

College students in college towns make many small towns liveable and interesting.

http://press-citizen.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071206/OPINION03/712060322/1018

http://iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=1564

http://commoniowan.blogspot.com/2007/12/yepsen-doesnt-think-iowas-out-of-state.html

http://www.bleedingheartland.com/showDiary.do;jsessionid=D6566FBC64CDF4E5A59080DE9BE1A79D?diaryId=709

Each of the above are posts from Iowa bloggers or editorials in Iowa newspapers supporting out of state Iowa college students right to participate in the caucuses.

Most students who don't know who is who in local races will just skip that part of the ballot.

Oh - and I live in a university town with a BIG Greek contingent (gag-a-maggot!) - so a lot of college votes go to Rethuglicans.

I believe in the process of democracy and I want students to get in the very good habit of voting young. And, yes, I hope that the whole "critical thinking" exercise I encourage them to participate in will migrate their votes into the "D" category some day.

ROCK THE VOTE! :woohoo:

Locals don't hate anything that benefits the local economy, and students live there, pay plenty of local taxes, provide jobs for myriad locals........yet you think they don't like this? And want disenfranchise them?

No?

Didnt think so.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/1207/Relenting_on_students.html


What a bone headed tactic this one was.

“I am a leader of the Students for Hillary organization at Iowa State University because I believe Senator Clinton has the strength and experience to bring the change our country needs so badly,” said Sarah Sunderman, co-chair of Students for Hillary and former president of the College Democrats at Iowa State University. “She has fought for students like me to make a college education more affordable and she is the only candidate who can hit the ground running on day one in the Oval Office.”

http://www.gwu.edu/%7Eaction/2008/clinton/clinton100207...

"Sarah Sunderman, a senior at Iowa State University, said she will drive back early from her home in Minnesota to take part in the Jan. 3 caucuses. She is one of about 21,000 out-of-state students who attend Iowa's public universities. As a member of her school's Democratic student group, she sees the date as a challenge."

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

Hillary needs to pay for this backhanded slap at democracy. Shame on her.

and don't care that much. They have other priorities

This is a whole lot of nothing

that they're already backpedaling from, if its a "whole lot of nothing"?

Students are engaging like they never have before...at least not in a long, long time. In 2004, turnout among 18-24 yr-olds was up 9% as compared to 2000. And turnout in the 2006 mid-terms was up significantly as well.

http://www.yda.org/tools/19/youth-statistics

Why dismiss all these young people, who could be terrific assets for the Party next November? They are disproportionately Democratic. Oh, I forgot. You have a vested interest ... Bah.

Any comments on the substance? Young people. Voting. Trends. Turnout.

joke status is your category....saweeeee

What arrogance. We don't like him either.

where you live. There are many colleges around these parts, and they are the center of political activity...It's where the candidates have speaking engagements...as well as activists.

You will see.

maybe you don't know as much as you think you do?

Of course Obama or even Biden is way snazzier to the kids than Hill.

If you have a good case against Hillary why do you have to make stuff up?
When did Hillary say caucuses are for people who live there and pay taxes and not students?

Hillary complained when Obama asked students who have duel residency in Illinois and Iowa to vote in Iowa instead of Illinois. That would give Obama an advantage. There was never any debate over whether students should vote or not.

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=...

snip//

In a jab at Obama’s efforts to encourage out-of-state students who attend college in Iowa to caucus, Clinton said the caucuses are only for people who live in this state.

“This is a process for Iowans. This needs to be all about Iowa, and people who live here, people who pay taxes here,” she told the Clear Lake crowd.

Very wrong indeed. It's this kind of politics that is turning people off to her.

Since Clinton openly vowed to go after Obama her Rasmussen ratings have plummeted. She's down 12 points in the last 14 days. If she wants to pull the race out, she's going to have to stop attacking Obama or at least only attack him with more legitimate stuff.

I don't know why Hillary's camp changed what they were doing. They had a problem with Iowa but she was in good to great shape everywhere else. Voters are in no mood this year for negative attacks.

negative attacks are the only tool in the republican toolbox, and they always use it.
Its a sad day for the democratic party when we adopt a similar mindset.

overwhelmingly even republican voters are tired of mudslinging.

The logical extension of this argument is that everyone should only be allowed to vote in the State where they were born.

The one in the OP doesn't work. Anyone got a good link to this?

http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2007712040394


In a jab at Obama's efforts to encourage out-of-state college students to caucus, Clinton said the caucuses are only for people who live in this state.

"This is a process for Iowans. This needs to be all about Iowa, and people who live here, people who pay taxes here," she told the Clear Lake audience.

or in their home state. It seems the crux of the matter is that Obama attempted to get kids, already registered in Illinois, to register and vote in Iowa.

My son was at school in Wisconsin. He voted in Oregon. He lived in Chicago for something over two years after that. He still votes his Oregon ballot.

It would seem that Hillary was right: If Obama encouraged students who were registered in their home state of Illinois to cross over and vote in Iowa for his benefit.

If the students really make their home in Iowa, then they should vote there. If their registration is in another state, then they should vote there.

What would keep unscrupulous students from voting in both elections?

I'll still go with Hillary was probably right in calling for an investigation.

A college address is a legal address for voting purposes as long as the student chooses to vote in the college state. The student can't vote in two places, but has the choice. It's not up to Clinton or anyone else to tell students they shouldn't vote in their college states. It's federal law and it's Iowa law. The students in question are not commuters. They are student residents of Iowa. The State of Iowa encourages out of state resident students to caucus the same as any other Iowan college student.

Obama's imporation of an army of Illinois residents to help him in a close three-way contest in Iowa is legal but morally reprehensible and violates any fundamental sense of fair play. Ask Obama himself. Why did he, like all the other campaigns, agree to not let his staff caucus?

an army of Illinois residents to help him in a close three-way contest in Iowa.

Iowa Code Section 43.91 provides that only eligible Iowa voters may participate in the caucus. The only expansion upon that right is the additional factor is that if they are not an eligible voter on the evening of the caucus they will become one by the date of the next general election.

To become a voter in Iowa one must have a residence in the State. To have a residence in Iowa, one must have a home in the precinct "with the intent to remain there permanently or for a definite or indefinite or indeterminable length of time." (Iowa Code Section 48.5A). Further, a non-resident, with a voting registration in another state is not eligible to register in Iowa (i.e. "not claim the right to vote in more than one place." See Section 48A.5(1)(d).

Additionally, there is a limitation on what can be established as a residence. Under Code Section 48A.5A Determination of Residence (2) provides that "a residence for purposes of this chapter cannot be established in a commercial or industrial building that is not normally used for residential purposes", i.e. which I think we can reasonably take to mean not a hotel or a campaign headquarters.

(Note: if this discussion continues, there is a specific exception for students, who may declare either their campus residence or their hometown as their residence, but not both. See 48A.5 (5)).

(Iowa has same day voter registration, out of state Iowa college students will be able to register to voter and participate in the precinct where they live during the school year. Of course that means that they will no longer be registered to vote in their home state.)

Among likely young Democratic voters, Obama (38 percent) leads U.S. Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York (33 percent) by five percentage points, and both candidates are well ahead of former Sen. John Edwards of North Carolina (7 percent). On college campuses, Obama’s margin is even wider. He’s at 44 percent to Clinton’s 23 percent. (Polling stopped a month ago.) Clinton edges Obama among those surveyed who are not currently at a four-year college and those who have never enrolled at any college.

http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2007/12/06/politics

So it makes sense for Obama to encourage students who live in Illinois but go to school in Iowa to vote in Iowa, while encouraging students who live in Iowa but go to school in Illinois to vote in Iowa too.

Talk about taking a page out of the Republican handbook...

"can't...get...her..out..of...my...mind" lalalala

that college students infuse into their economies, or the increase in opportunities afforded by having a college in their town. But, heaven forbid, if the students VOTE! Take a reality pill, please!x(

I've experienced that one up close and personal.

I would encourage young college students in Iowa to write letters to the editor. I hope this is getting lots of Press in Iowa.

It is a fact that she would rather NOT allow people to vote because they would NOT vote for her. It's nothing short of Stalinistic evil.

Drop out, Hillary. Your husband has been hitting on Penelope Cruz and you need to attend to his needs. That's the real experience you've had as First Lady. Get out now.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Is there a direct quote?

http://desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID= ...

snip//

In a jab at Obama’s efforts to encourage out-of-state students who attend college in Iowa to caucus, Clinton said the caucuses are only for people who live in this state.

“This is a process for Iowans. This needs to be all about Iowa, and people who live here, people who pay taxes here,” she told the Clear Lake crowd.

Well that's a bit different than telling all college students not to vote.

Doesn't seem to represent a 'change of heart' (or whatever phrase was used in the OP) from what she'd said at Wellesley.

seems to think shouldn't participate in the Iowa Caucuses even though their participation is legal and within Iowa Democratic Party rules AND encouraged by the IDP AND the Iowa Secretary of State. (and outside of that Clinton has out of state Iowa college students who are student leaders in her campaign who have publicly stated that they will be driving back to Iowa from their home state in order to caucus for her).

She just kind of stepped in the pooh on this one.

On edit:

As did her campaign

Clinton spokesman Mo Elleithee offered a very direct "The Iowa caucus ought to be for Iowans."

http://www.iowaindependent.com/showDiary.do?diaryId=156...

This antiquated ritual needs to be flushed

I think you do a great job representing Iowan Democrats here on Democratic Underground!

Helping to answer some of the incorrect points made by some of the "out-of-state" folks ;-)

FULL DISCLUSURE: I am not from Iowa. But I trust Debi on this issue. B-)

Code and the rules of the Iowa Democratic Party :hi:

I still don't see a full quote in context, but I've looked around and it seems this was all a response to an effort from the Obama campaign to bring in not just voters, but buses of "activists" from out of state. (?)

I don't see where she said students in Iowa "shouldn't participate in the caucuses."

It's politics, on all sides.

The Clinton campaign and supporters implying it doesn't make it so (any more that people who say that Clinton doesn't want college students to vote when what she was focusing on was out of state Iowa college students - well, until she realized that some of those students were supporting her campaign).

Yes, it is politics all around. But I think it is appropriate to let folks here know what Iowa law states and that the Iowa Democratic Party encourages participation by eligible voters. (and out of state Iowa college students who choose to register to vote on caucus night are eligible to participate - as the Clinton campaign now acknowledges).

So both of us seem to be buying into the rabble-rousers games.

What a freakin hypocrite.

To caucus and vote for him in Iowa and then vote by absentee for him in Illinois. I thought DUers were against vote fraud. Two votes in the election.

i assume you have concrete proof to show us?

should I be able to vote wherever I've paid sales taxes in the past year (that would be FL, VA, and DC)? For the record, I'm registered to vote in my home town (in FL), as is pretty much everyone I know. I don't have a problem with people deciding to vote where they go to school, though - I'd probably do it if I went to school in an early primary state.

As a Hillary supporter, her stance on this really doesn't bother me. She's not telling students not to vote, she's just saying they should vote in their home town (I think she shouldn't have entered into the discussion either way - I think college students should be able to vote in either their home town or their school's town, so long as they only vote in one place.) And as a college student, I've felt very valued by Hillary's campaign.

But of course the mainstream media buried that since it was only about the gays, the minority it's ok, perhaps even desirable, to piss on. Let all those students know how the Obama campaign lied and said McClurkin would only sing. Let them know the Obama campaign issued the shockingly insulting statement that McClurkin only wants to help the "unhappy gays" pray the gay away. Let them know McClurkin emceed the event, and went into an anti-gay tirade during the last half hour. Let them know Obama said McClurkin's comments disturbed him, but then ended up telling The Advocate that we have to come to terms with the fact that "good, moral, decent people" don't yet accept gays as equal. Drawing a distinction between homophobia and all other forms of bigotry. As long as homophobic bigots hide behind the bible, they get a pass, as if it doesn't reflect on their character at all.

Of course many of those students would be homophobic cretins themselves and not give a shit about the McClurkin fiasco, or think it's cute. But if all of them were informed about it, Obama would lose many of their votes.

And yes it was dumb for him to have McClurkin speak.

Obama betrayed the gay community, our outrage is the issue, not his supporters because the situation makes their favorite candidate look bad. I didn't say he was homophobic, quote where I said that. But he is willing to defend homophobes, and that's extremely offensive. The night of the concert with McClurkin, Obama's campaign DID issue a ridiculous statement in defense of him, saying he only wanted to help the "unhappy gays." And Obama DID defend homophobes in The Advocate, saying many are "good, moral, decent people.

Obama to Iowa: It's the Illinois votes that matter to go.

What part of this is a problem for you exactly?

1) Someone studying at a college in a different state from where they grew up.

2) Someone being allowed to vote in a different state from where they were born.

3) A college student spending the Christmas holidays with their folks and family.

4) Someone claiming to live in a town where they only live for 9 or 10 months per year.

5) Someone who does not work full-time being allowed to vote.

6) Someone under-25 being allowed to vote.

7) Someone supporting a candidate other than Hillary Clinton.

I am curious to know which one of these is a problem for you. :eyes:

Chicago politics. It used to be the graveyards voting, now it's out of state students.

It's really not that hard to understand.

I think you just need to try a bit harder. B-)

If you want to, go back over the last few days and see the other posts by this DUer.

Their posts are solely to ignite passions, not to inform or to educate.

(and the law or rules don't matter - they just keep cherry picking quotes from the Obama flyer sent to out of state Iowa college students on participating in the caucuses).

Maybe I should go and take a break ... B-)

Ask Barack...

http://www.iowapolitics.com/index.iml?Article=110118

WE THE UNDERSIGNED CAMPAIGNS, to ensure a fair caucus process AND MAINTAIN THE INTEGRITY OF IOWA’S FIRST IN THE NATION CAUCUS, pledge that no campaign staff or out-of-state volunteers will be allowed to caucus or be counted as a caucus-goer on January 3rd.

Julie Andreeff Jensen

Paul Tewes
Obama Campaign

Teresa Vilmain
Clinton Campaign

Danny O’Brien
Biden Campaign

Jennifer O’Malley Dillon
Edwards Campaign

Rob Becker
Richardson Campaign

It's because they don't really "live" as defined by the election statutes in Iowa. The live in their home state, where they are registered to vote, and where Obama is encouraging them to vote absentee for him after they caucus for him in Iowa. That is two votes and is voter fraud. I thought we at DU were against voter fraud. Apparently not when it helps our candidate.

didn't live in?

:shrug:

;-)

:P

You seem like an overly defensive douchebag.

Hope this helps.

Progressive students get out there by the thousands and vote. What an opportunity for change!

Here is what Huckabee is saying to his supporters in Iowa:

"If you are committed to vote for us, I don't care how deep the snow is, you've got to get out and caucus ... If you have got a neighbor that is not going to vote for me do not let him out of his driveway. Keep him home ... tell him that there is no point in going out because you have shovelled all of your snow into his driveway right behind his car."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections08/story/0,,2222697,00.html

Or because Barack Obama is exactly the same as George W Bush? :eyes:

this is confusing.

organizing students to vote in the communities in which they attend school. There are many reasons of great value to do this, beyond Presidential caucuses. My past work has centered around student involvement in the local politics of a university town. Often times, university towns are led by Councils and Mayors unaccommodating to the university community or it's interests. Involvement of students in the local process can help overcome that.

If you spend nine months of the year living and studying in a community - you are absolutely entitled to participate in the political process in that community.

This issue has moved me from "strong critic" of Clinton into the "hater" camp. I'm now a proud hater.

and her sabre-rattling towards Iran after supporting the Iraq debacle, shows she doesn't give half a crap about the youth vote. She has probably determined long ago that young people aren't reliable enough voters to bother trying to appease.