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I support Edwards -- But what about this campaign finance limit?

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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:10 PM
Original message
I support Edwards -- But what about this campaign finance limit?
I know Edwards is accepting public funds, which therefore limits what he can do to raise money. I understand the prinmciple, but the specifics elude me. I get confused by how that works

Does this mean he can't raise any additional money after a certain point? Or does it simply limit the sources or kind of contributions he can use? Does it prohibit the Democratic Party from funding campaign activities if he is nominated?

In otehr words, how big a handicap is it?

Can someone give me an objective factual answer about how this works exactly?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:25 PM
Response to Original message
1. here...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3832347
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. it's an obstacle, but not an insurmountable one.
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 10:41 PM by cali
There are limits as to what he can spend and what he can spend it on, and the real concern is that by the time it's effectively over, and he's won, that he'll be left with little money. The DNC and 527s can take up some of the slack, but they can't run candidate ads and they can't coordinate with the campaign. If he's the nom, he can't pick up the big check until after the Convention in August.

It could be a big problem or not. No one can really say for sure.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:36 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. I know very little about campaign finance,
But it's my understanding that he'll have a great deal of Union money behind him, and he can use that money for ad buys.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. yep, but again the unions, the DNC and 527s
(the vehicle the unions will be using) can't coordinate with the campaign of put up candidate ads. I don't think that's fatal, but it does put Edwards at a disadvantage because he'll be very limited as to positive framing. In other words, the repuke candidate will be able to glowingly frame himself and Edwards won't be able to effectively do that.
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Hippo_Tron Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:04 PM
Response to Reply #3
29. It's not a matter of money behind him it's about the spending limits
Edwards will have already met most of the spending limits by the time he has secured the nomination. He can continue to raise all the money he wants during the primary phase but he won't be allowed to spend it.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
5. As others may be making this an issue of concern
The campaign has plenty of money to finance through the primary season. When he becomes the nominee, he can drop public financing, or keep it if the GOP nominee chooses to accept public funds.

Like JRE says...."this is an election, not an auction" :D
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:48 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Of cours the campaign is going to say that. I mean really, what
else are they going to say? And what on earth are you talking about when you say that he can drop public financing when he becomes the nominee?? The problem is NOT the general- they all take public funding in the general, and the repuke will certainly do so. The problem is the period of time between when he becomes the presumptive nominee in late winter or early spring, and August when he officially becomes the nominee- assuming of course, that he is the nominee.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #5
9. The money limits go from the time of the primaries to
August 28th, period.

He can't drop Public financing till August 28th.

By all estimations the nominee will be known by very early February (February 5 is Super Tuesday).
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frogcycle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 10:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. it seems to me
Edited on Thu Dec-13-07 11:02 PM by frogcycle
that if he does surge ahead and it looks like a done deal, then the other candidates with plenty of leftover funds, if they were truly interested in the dems winning, could run some ads...

that far-fetched idea aside, some of the big donors to the other candidates might jump on his bandwagon

as long as he isn't paying for it, is the cap applicable?
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:21 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. The ads wouldn't be able to mention Edwards' name........
period.

Most losing candidates don't hand over their left over dough. Too much accounting must be done, and bills to be paid.

Edwards was still owing on his 04 primary as late as late Dec 2006, if I recall correctly.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-12-02-us-dems-debt_x.htm
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Stop Cornyn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-13-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
8. Biden, Dodd, and Kucinich are taking matching finds. Richardson blew his campaign by NOT taking
matching funds:

Monday, November 19, 2007 - Biden Campaign To Apply For Matching Funds -- And takes a cue from John Edwards' constant "Double Our Strength" pleas, by touting public financing as a way to "Double Your Impact!" Needs to use spellchecker though.

Chris Dodd just let his supporters know that his campaign is opting in for matching funds, with these sentences buried in a fundraising email that just went out to supporters: We have decided to take matching funds -- your $25 contribution will mean $50 in the campaign coffers today. Double down, right now!

Monday, November 26, 2007 - Kucinich Wants Federal Matching Funds - Double Your Money - Dear ___: We need you to help us raise $1 million on line from now until Nov. 29th. If you make a contribution during this time, it is eligible for matching funds through public financing. This means that your $50 contribution becomes a $100 contribution, $200 equals $400 ... up to $250. Reaching our goal of $1 million gives us $2 million to help with the resources needed to spread our message in the early primaries.

Richardson SHOULD have applied for matching funds, and because he didn't he won't make the Delaware primary ballot:

Candidates need 500 signatures to appear on the Delaware presidential primary, unless they appear to have qualified for primary season matching funds. The signatures were due on December 10.

Bill Richardson did not file any Delaware signatures, and has not tried to qualify for primary season matching funds, so he won’t be on the Democratic ballot.


If you think public financing is the cooties, you're stuck with Hillary or Obama (which is the reason you hear Hillary and Obama fans pushing this bullshit line).

But whether or not this will make a difference against a Republican campaign is questionable. John McCain on Tuesday became the first 2008 presidential candidate to qualify for taxpayer dollars for the primary election. Huckabee will take matching funds if he is going to try to compete on Huge-Tuesday.

It's a choice. Edwards has as much cash as any Republican and more than all the Democrats except Obama and Hillary added together. If that not enough, you are giving up our democracy for government to the highest bidder.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #8
11. You last paragraph doesn't quite tell the tale.
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 12:28 AM by FrenchieCat
Edwards has as much cash as any Republican does now.....but that has nothing to do with how much the GOP will donate to their candidate who has not accepted public financing once that nominee is known.

Your best bet in rationalizing Edwards' choice is to hope that whomever the Republicans end up as their nom, if Edwards wins the primaries, is a candidate who also chose Public Financing.....otherwise, we will have handed the Republicans an advantage that they will need and will use.


That's the real truth.

It cannot be spinned away as anything but a handicap.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Great info, wish the other camps would have spoken up about PubFi
While the MSM was declaring JRE finished !

As Edwards has said...this is an election, not an auction.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
13. It is complicated. Essentially,
the Obama supporters will tell you that means he is doomed. They will go into detail of how the spending cap works yadda yadda yadda.

However, the thing they don't talk about is that the DNC can cooperate with John Edwards for a lot of the money. They can spend as much as they want for him. This is a diary that was on the rec list yesterday at Dailykos explaining this more:

Edwards has NO Money Problem
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. That Kos diary sounds like BS to me.
He is advocating legally questionable tactics for one thing, ("they could creatively book-keep him into many State campaign events"), and then advocating siphoning DNC money away from Senate and House races, judgeships, Governorships, and thousands of other races the DNC helps out with in order to pay for Edwards campaign. Some people say that Clinton would hurt down-ballot Dems, but this tactic would be an unmitigated disaster for them.

Besides, the RNC can cooperate with their candidate just as much as the DNC with ours, so that part's a draw anyway.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #13
24. no. don't go giving out erroeous info. The DNC cannot cooridinate
or cooperate with the campaign There's a legal wall between the campaign and the DNC or 527s. They can't run candidate ads either. They can run issue ads, and they can be a big help, but it's not the same thing as the campaign being able to frame their candidate and shape their message.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
15. Adding to the mess, the FEC has no money yet.
"...no funds will be available for matching payments in January 2008. As deposits are made from tax returns in the early months of 2008, matching fund payments will be made from those deposits until all certified amounts have been paid. Based on historical patterns, the FEC estimates that funds may not be available to disburse before March 2008."


http://www.fec.gov/press/press2007/20071204biden.shtml

In other words, Edwards' matching draws are dependent on how early or late people pay their taxes next year. He probably needs to have enough of his own money just to get through Super Tuesday.
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jsamuel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. see this is what I am talking about, DOOOM DOOOOOOOOM
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 04:23 PM by jsamuel
is what people are shouting.


THE TRUTH:
The Edwards campaign can simply take out loans until they are reimbursed by the FEC. This is not a new idea either. It has been done by previous campaigns as well. They leave that info out to scare people away from Edwards. It is just a trick.
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MGKrebs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. Whether he borrows it or not, it's still not enough money.
But whatever. Dream the dream. Maybe it will all work out. Us pragmatists are always so gloomy.
Anything can happen. No worries.
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:30 PM
Response to Original message
17. Just listen to Joe Trippi
http://www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/index.php/2007/09/28/trippi-oping-out-of-public-financing-would-leave-nominee-like-dukakis-getting-the-living-shit-kicked-out-of-him-all-summer-long/


Listen to Edwards’ own adviser, former Dean finance guru Joe Trippi. He told me earlier this year (prior to signing onto the Edwards campaign) that opting for the limits of public financing would leave any nominee “flat broke like Mike Dukakis — getting the living shit kicked out of him all summer long.”


That's as close to an objective opinion as you're going to get.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Clearly, if one reads the whole snotty article.....
which DUers seldom do...sigh. Ready...Fire...Aim :silly:
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maximusveritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. Clearly you didn't
or at least not well. That was the only quote from Trippi in it. It does link to another article where Trippi spins Edwards' decision with some BS. But the only quote from Trippi before he became an Edwards spinster is the one I posted.
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Catchawave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 08:39 PM
Response to Reply #22
28. Oh, I did, with an open mind.....
You must've missed a few key points :)
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proudmoddemo Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 05:00 PM
Response to Original message
19. The FEC is in total meltdown
If Congress adjourns without distributing matching funds, then the check is never going to get sent to Edwards. (There aren't enough members of the FEC for a quorum thanks to *). If that happens, the spending limits are off, but Edwards has about half as much cash on hand as his people projected this week. He'd need to win Iowa in that situation, and even then it'd be tough for him...
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Armstead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
21. Thanks for the info
I'm slightly less confused now....still confused, but slightly less so. :crazy: :)
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:45 PM
Response to Original message
23. That's a total Hillabama "we boght this election fair and square" argument. Edwards has more cash
on hand than any likely Republican nominee.
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. ridiculous. learn something about
the legal restraints on any candidate who's accepted public funding.
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:12 PM
Response to Reply #25
27. Can you teach me about spreading filth about Democrats? I'd like to learn from the queen of refuse!
Edited on Fri Dec-14-07 07:13 PM by Tejanocrat
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:16 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. Attacking a DUer for talking about the issue of candidates.......
What a turn off! :thumbsdown:
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David Zephyr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 07:08 PM
Response to Original message
26. It's something that Edwards needs to address: how he will survive with the handicap.
Bill Clinton destroyed Bob Dole, who had opted for public funds, between the primaries and the convention when Dole was refunded.

It is a considerable disadvantage and John Edwards needs to address this issue directly and assure people that he has a real, tangible plan for that period of time when he will not have any funds.
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FrenchieCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-14-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #26
31. How will he survive the upcoming commercials? Good Question
Here's the material for the ads.....
http://mydd.com/story/2007/12/14/182521/12

Edwards funding limits will not let him respond to a lot of what will be thrown out there from early February till the last two days of August.

A total disadvantage!
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