Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

This race is still wide open. Here's the proof:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:25 PM
Original message
This race is still wide open. Here's the proof:
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/12/17/opinion/polls/main589167.shtml

Opinion poll, December 17, 2003

Dean 23%, Clark 10%, Lieberman 10%, Gephardt 6%, Sharpton 5%, Kerry 4%, Edwards 2%, Moseley-Braun 1%, Kucinich 1%

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/19/elec04.prez.main/index.html

Actual Iowa results, January 19, 2004

Kerry 38%, Edwards 32%, Dean 18%, Gephardt 11%

The Dean "scream" occurred immediately afterward, and though many people seem to think the media hype of this event was what killed him, the actual fact is that he was pretty much done when he finished third in Iowa after such high expectations.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
Olney Blue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Good reminder, FS. It can change overnight!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Caseman Donating Member (171 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. No offnese, but this is a much different election...
There is a lot of hype around the first woman and African-American president, that I doubt they will stagger out of the top tier like the other candidates in '04. However, I do believe Biden could get a boost for his general appeal and people placing him as their second-candidate, hopefully, placing in 3rd or 2nd.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Think again my friend... Hype was all around Dean and Gephardt in Iowa.
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 08:40 PM by FlyingSquirrel
It's obviously true that this is a different election. Since Iowa and New Hampshire have been moved up, perhaps it would be instructive to see what the polls looked like among likely Iowa caucus voters two weeks prior to that contest in 2004?

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3827/is_200401/ai_n9350068

"Right now, Dean leads in both contests. KCCI TV conducted a poll January 5-7 of likely Iowa Democratic caucus voters (margin of error +/-5%). The results: Dean 29%; Gephardt 25%; Kerry 18%; Sen. John Edwards (N.C.) 8%; retired Gen. Wesley Clark 3%; Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) 2% and Rep. Dennis Kucinich (Ohio) 2%. American Research Group polled 619 likely New Hampshire Democratic primary voters (margin of error +/-4%) January 1-3. The results: Dean 37%; Kerry 14%; Clark 14%; Lieberman 7%; Gephardt 6%; Edwards 3%; Kucinich 2%."

So with a +/- error of 5%, the WORST Dean could have been expected to do in Iowa was 24%. Gephardt 20%. The BEST Kerry could have been expected to do was 23%. Edwards 13%.

And yet the actual results were Dean 18%, Gephardt 11%, Kerry 38%, Edwards 32%.

And in this poll there appeared to be very few undecideds.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Uben Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. Sorry, but you're wrong. It's over!
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 08:31 PM by Uben
....that was four years ago! LOL
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
5. December 12 Rasmussen said Clinton 29%, Obama 26%, Edwards 22%, so...
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 09:06 PM by FlyingSquirrel
My gut feeling: Clinton's endorsement from the Des Moines Register will be forgotten but her personal negative attacks on Obama which followed the Republican playbook will not. Meanwhile Obama will also suffer because these attacks point up his vulnerability to the Republican slime machine. Edwards is the clear winner, Biden finishes stronger than expected. Edwards 32%, Obama 22%, Clinton 22%, Biden 10%, Richardson 6%, Dodd 3%, Kucinich 2%, Gravel 1%.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Czolgosz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 09:48 PM
Response to Original message
6. This is a national poll. Kerry and Edwards were both doing much better in Iowa.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
FlyingSquirrel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. See reply 4: poll of likely Iowa caucusgoers Jan. 5-7, 2003
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 10:35 PM by FlyingSquirrel
Even though Kerry was closer in that Iowa poll, it was still Dean 29%, Gephardt 25%, Kerry 18% and Edwards 8%. With a 5% margin of error Dean should still have edged out Kerry in the worst case scenario for him, and Edwards should have placed no higher than fourth.

Good point about national polls vs. Iowa polls however. The most recent national poll shows Clinton at 45%, Obama at 27% and Edwards at 15%; however the most recent Iowa poll is much tighter, Clinton 29%, Obama 26%, Edwards 22%.

I believe Edwards will win Iowa and probably place second in New Hampshire due to the bump he gets from Iowa. Will then win in his home state of South Carolina and become the candidate to beat.

(Current Rasmussen rankings for New Hampshire as of Dec. 12: Obama 31%, Clinton 28%, Edwards 17%.)

Clinton loses more percentage points by the time New Hampshire rolls around due to her personal negative attacks on Obama and not placing first in Iowa. Edwards gets a bump from Iowa, placing second ahead of Clinton. After he wins South Carolina in a landslide, it's his nomination to lose. Obama would need some quick victories to stay competitive but momentum will not be on his side and the weakness of his actual message and agenda will become more apparent when he is compared directly to Edwards as opposed to Clinton.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jenmito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-17-07 10:37 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. I think an Edwards win isn't a big deal in Iowa. 2nd place is important. If Obama wins 2nd,
Edited on Mon Dec-17-07 10:37 PM by jenmito
in Iowa, he'll be the winner in NH (since his support is so much stronger than Edwards' there and he'll have shown Hillary is NOT inevitable), and sweep from there. He's the one with the money to compete nationally. Not Edwards.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sun May 05th 2024, 12:40 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC