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Why I won't be Voting for Hillary Clinton

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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:01 PM
Original message
Why I won't be Voting for Hillary Clinton
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 02:07 PM by hnmnf
Why I won’t be voting for Hillary Clinton

This thread has been done time and time again, but I felt the need to add my two cents as well. I have not always been this anti Clinton. I started out not caring for her too much. I thought she was a calculating politician, who was a hawk, pretending to be a dove. I was not to warm to her. However, I loved Bill Clinton. I thought to myself, could I stand to see Hillary in the White House if that meant to see Big Dog in the WH too? My answer was a resounding yes.

At the beginning of the campaign, I had started to warm up to Hillary. Around last April/May, I perceived her as much warmer person who I could not only vote for, but I could see myself really getting involved in the campaign.

Everything was fine with me up until she started going negative. Now when the Clinton campaign goes negative as many of you know, they don’t just go negative, they go for low blows, no pun intended. While Obama and Edwards shoot for policy differences, Clinton’s camps attacks people on the most ridiculous things like kindergate or Sheehan’s comments, or Kerrey’s comments. Hillary in all these situations reminds me of Tony Soprano. She is the boss and she sends out all her surrogates to do her dirty work for her. Mark Penn is out there making sure to say cocaine whenever he can, and now you’ve got Clinton out there doing the dirty work that she is afraid to do herself. You know, the real downfall for myself and Hillary Clinton is the way Bill Clinton has been acting.

I used to think of Bill Clinton as hero, no longer. I understand that he has a responsibility to his wife to defend and support her, but he also has a responsibility to this party as one of our elder statesmen. He needs to realize that he has multiple responsibilities and should tone down his rhetoric. Instead he refers to Barack Obama as “A roll of the dice” or a risk, which is something that Hillary cannot and has not backed up. David Gregory in an interview a week ago tested her on this and she dodged the question, and Gregory called her out on it.

You know, its an old point, but its part of the reason so many people do not respect Hillary Clinton. Her husband has embarrassed her many times over and she sticks with him…why? Is it because she really loves him or is it because this is another one of her calculations? I’m sure Ill take heat for this, but I have trouble respecting a candidate who has so little respect for themselves. This man doesn’t love her and anybody who thinks he does is foolish.

All these negatives for me bring back all the reasons I never have liked her. Her vote for the IWR and general hawkishness, I cannot easily dismiss. Her vote for Kyle/Lieberman is inexcusable to me, no matter what any other candidate did. But most of all, it’s the fact that she can never make up her mind. She always has to have everything both ways. Whether it’s the immigrant driver’s license debacle, or how her campaign is about going back to the good ole days of the Clinton Administration, but anything bad about it is not her responsibility. You cant run on a return to the Clinton years of the 90s without then taking heat for all the bad things that have happened. You cant be against a war with Iran while the same time provide a vote that will help the Bush administration go that route. For God sakes, she cant even decide between The Cubs and the NY teams, or Diamonds and pearls. She always wants both. Well, you cant have both.
The last two months have reinforced to me just how calculating she is. I mean she cant even memorize her attacks on Obama. Instead she has to read them off a piece of paper seen clearly as she glances down towards her podium when she goes on the attack. Guess she wants to read exactly what her speechwriter wrote for her.

Another reason to not support Hillary is actually an argument that many of her supporters use in her favor, her electability. Hillary Clinton is the least electable democrat running in this race, besides Mike Gravel and Dennis Kucinich. Even the black man, who will bring out the racist vote, is more electable than Hillary. It is true that Hillary is an extremely polarizing figure, and that is seen by the high negative ratings that she attracts. While Obama and Edwards generally see a nice ration of positive to negative ratings, Hillary’s positives never go above fifty, and her negatives are occasionally higher than her positives. While people like myself view Rupert as Satan, many conservatives view her as that. She will drive people out in force to vote her down

Now this is not a post in support of any candidate, and I know it will be taken that way. I know people will respond saying… “Well Obama didn’t even show up to the K/L vote and he’s an inexperienced blah blah blah blah blah,” I don’t give a shit. This thread is solely for me to let out my problems with Hillary. My problems with her have led me to a point where if she receives the nomination, I will have a hard time rallying behind her. I may even give Bloomberg a look if he runs. Ultimately I see myself supporting her, but I just know that this party can do so much better. Whether it is Biden, Obama, Dodd, or Edwards, this party stands for something better than Hillary Clinton. This party stands for something better than nominating a woman who without issue took money from Satan himself, Rupert Murdoch. Is this where we want the Democratic party to go? I sure hope not. I hope Iowans realize that she is wrong for this party, and she is wrong for this country. Because ultimately, whether fair or not, this entire primary rests in Iowa. If she wins, it’s all over, and if she loses, well then maybe real change can occur.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
1. I can sum up in one sentence why I won't be voting for Obama.
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 02:04 PM by William769
Giving BIGOTS a platform to speak from.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. That's a real good reason - NOT
Since there will always be those who socially backwards and bigoted, does that mean you would never support an African-American for president?
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. As expected: pulling the race card...
if one doesn't support Obama then one doesn't want an African-American. Oy vey.:eyes:
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. "pulling the race card." Thanks, I'm glad you could decipher, because that sentence made no
sense to me.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #21
30. HiYa, durrty libby...
hope your holidays were merry and wise...:hi:

That's how I read that post...but, then again, I could have gotten it wrong. I have before.
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. How do you get that from my post?
The person I was replying to said they wouldn't vote for Obama, because they didn't want to give bigots a platform to speak from. Maybe I mis-read the post, but I took it as because there are still plenty of racists in this country, that the poster didn't want to give them something to rally against.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #22
29. I hate to interpret but I believe the "bigot" in question is DONNIE MC CLURKIN...
You know, the ex-gay singing preacher who speaks venomous words against gays (and who is currently rumored to be living a closeted gay sex life)...the one Obama gave a platform to, in his Homophobics for Obama Tour. They spoke against the "wicked ways" of gays and praised their candidate Obama...I am sure you must have heard about it somewhere...it was discussed here in DU in at least a post or two.

As to the "race card" issue, I think most of us are well aware of Obama's ethnic background. Not supporting Obama's candidacy should in no way imply racism.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 05:56 PM
Response to Reply #18
43. I believe the race card was played on the first post...by a HRC supporter!
Is this going to be another thread with Hillary folks making things up as they go?
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niceypoo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #43
79. The first post mentions nothing about race
But your first post does.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
23. Not a BIGOTED one. No sireeee.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Then why do you support bigoted whites, Wm?
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 03:37 PM by chascarrillo
"If there are some young blacks driving a car late at night in a predominantly white neighborhood, they will be stopped. There's a pretty good chance they're up to no good. It's obvious two young blacks driving a rinky-dink car in a predominantly white neighborhood -- I'm not talking about on the main thoroughfare, but if they're on one of the side streets and they're cruising around -- they'll be stopped." - Jefferson Parish Sheriff Henry Lee, 1986

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Lee

Former Sen. John Breaux, D-La., recalled the friendship that Lee and President Clinton struck up during the president's two terms in the White House. Whenever Clinton came through New Orleans, he always looked up the sheriff.

http://blog.nola.com/updates/2007/10/charismatic_and_controversial.html
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. If you read your own article you posted. it's nothing. NT
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. "I'm going to catch that bastard, and when I catch him, he is going to be black."
Hey, guess what, I did read the article I posted!
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BushOut06 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Sorry then, I mis-read your post
I might disagree with your stance on Obama, but I apologize for misreading your intent.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #10
33. He Was Referring to BHO Having Given Donnie McClurkin a Platform to Spew Anti-Gay Crap
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #1
14. Like Hillary?
The New York Times
May 20, 2007
Clinton Accepts Aid From a Divisive Figure
By PATRICK HEALY
NEW ORLEANS, May 19 — Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York, who has cast herself as an ally of African-Americans in rebuilding this city, this weekend accepted fund-raising assistance from a family friend who is controversial with many black and white victims of Hurricane Katrina.

The friend, Sheriff Harry Lee of Jefferson Parish, has been close to former President Bill Clinton for many years, and he is popular among some Democrats here. But Sheriff Lee has a long history of making divisive and derogatory remarks, sometimes aimed at residents of neighboring New Orleans, which is predominantly black, and his relationship with many black political leaders is turbulent.

Sheriff Lee drew notoriety shortly after the hurricane when some of his deputies helped prevent hurricane evacuees, most of them black, from crossing the Crescent City Connection bridge into Jefferson Parish. Sheriff Lee defended the move, saying his office had “a duty to protect our people.”

Sheriff Lee was a host committee member for a fund-raiser here Friday night for Mrs. Clinton’s presidential campaign. The event, which the senator attended, was closed to the news media. A Clinton campaign spokeswoman declined to comment on Mrs. Clinton’s views of Sheriff Lee’s actions in 2005 or on his fund-raising support.

(snip)

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/20/us/politics/20commence.html
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
37. Bwahahaha!!
Nice meaningless response.

:rofl:
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 05:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
42. Quite frankly, your post gives bigots a platform to speak from!
And the amazing thing about bigots...they can vote against Obama on the basis of race (he won't get elected) and blame it on the other bigots!

How cowardly to use bigots as a cover.....
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Nedsdag Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:16 PM
Response to Reply #1
48. Oh, so Bill Shaheen stereotyping Obama as a
drug dealing junkie makes Hillary immune to criticism?

Dream on, girlfriend!
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bluewisdom Donating Member (31 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #1
85. obama is UNELECTABLE!
Edited on Thu Dec-27-07 12:43 PM by bluewisdom
HILLARY 2008 :headbang:
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Saturday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:04 PM
Response to Original message
2. whatever. n/t
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:06 PM
Response to Original message
3. that's "two cents" not "two sense".
and sorry, I couldn't bother reading much beyond that.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. If he keeps at it, he may just convince himself.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. S'ok. I wrote it pretty early in the morning when I couldnt sleep
(Hillary was invading my dreams causing horrific nightmares). Im leaving for the day and I wanted to get this up, so I may have cut short the proofreading.
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MNDemNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
4. I'm so sorry you'll be staying home this November.
Or maybe you can vote for some other bigot.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
lyonn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:20 PM
Response to Original message
7. Interesting perspective. nt
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dbackjon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:25 PM
Response to Original message
8. You won't be voting in the primary for her, or the GE??
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Catherine Vincent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Who cares except your fellow Hillary haters?
nt
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #9
44. Why do you hate America? Why do you hate Hillary? Are you a card-carrying Republican? :-)
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
50. I feel like I have the right to post this here whether you care or not.
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EOTE Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #9
78. I care, and I'm certainly not a Hillary hater.
I will not vote for her in the primaries, but will reluctantly do so in the general election if it comes down to it. I think she's by far the weakest candidate, and she represents my views least of all in the democratic field. I'd love to have a woman president, but I hope it's not her. I think the dismissive attitude towards anything anti-Hillary by some posters here is really aversive towards discussion.
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Heywood J Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
82. You mean 75% of the message board? (NT)
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:45 PM
Response to Original message
11. "Her husband has embarrassed her many times over and she sticks with him…"
Really, it is none of your business, and you comes across as the neighborhood gossip and busybody

"Everything was fine with me up until she started going negative"

As a Clinton supporter, I want her to cap all her opponents in the knees. Contrary to your naive and immature idealism, this is not a tea and crumpet party


"real change"? Any Dem will be real change from bush. I have confidence that with Hillary,
it will be intelligent, thoughtful change.The others? not so much





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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:07 PM
Response to Reply #11
45. The problem I have with your logic
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 06:08 PM by earthlover
Primaries are supposed to be where candidates FROM THE SAME PARTY compete for the nomination. It isn't all or nothing. The goal is not to burn the bridges. The goal is to win, and then the party supports the winner. The problem with Hillary's Supporters who go for the jugular against Obama is that Obama might win, and they will be weakening his position in the general election. Which means making it more likely for the likes of Huckleberry and Romney to be elected. This is what has turned a lot of Democrats off to hillary's negative campaign. And, in the general election, a lot of folks are tired of the negative crap. Many don't vote at all because of it. I would recommend that you look outside your Hillary Bubble. And realize that a lot of folks are turned off by your antics. The OP makes a good point. You can see someone who used to like Hillary getting more and more turned off by the negative stuff. And your response? More of the same! Which is basically most of what I have ever observed from you.
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insanad Donating Member (286 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
83. She'll have a polarizing effect on the entire government
While many of the things Hilary Clinton is so well practiced at are viable in the leadership skills necessary to be a president, she is also vehemently loathed by most Republicans, many insecure men, and lots of traditional women. The potential for the Democrats to win the presidency and other important positions is very very good, especially after years of what the Republicans have done to take the position to absolutely new lows. I think even many Republicans would vote for a good Democratic leader if given the choice between Romney, Guliani, or Edwards and Obama.

Unfortunately, if the Democrats choose Hilary Clinton as their candidate, they'll in effect guarantee that Republicans will rally to vote against her, as will some Democrats and many independents. Even if she manages to win the election her personality and history will further polarize the whole Washington scene and the gridlock we've had for the last 20 years will only escalate. She is so vulnerable to whatever opinions and polls tell her to do that she'll be virtually paralyzed by trying to please everyone. In the end, she'll please no one.

I lost so much respect for Hilary Clinton while Bill was in his second term. It wasn't because of his shenanigans and the foolish way he took his role as the President of the United States so casually, but for her lack of forthright condemnation of his actions. One can still love and support their loved one even when they do something stupid, but she in essence took American women back 50 years by assisting him in denying, covering up, and minimizing the act(s) that he committed. She enabled him, not just then, but possibly throughout their marriage by not making him accept responsibility for what he did. It is that lack of consequences that he understood as "license" to continue to fool around, to see his acts as so easy to dismiss. They stood and lied together to the American people.

Her choice to not oppose the war, to give George Bush the money and support to start this war, to continue to fund it, and to never apologize or recognize her part in this mess is another reflection of her willingness to enable the very demons that we are all fighting to expel now. By not holding strong to the values that she should have represented as a Democrat and as an American, she in essence agrees with this war, if not by action, then by sins of omission.

In the past I've never been very interested in Politics. I always considered anyone who had risen through the ranks to be dirty, probably a corrupt player, and hardly worth giving my time or attention to. As our nation has reeled in the wake of Bush and his war and the horrible infringements on the Constitutional rights, the economical fiasco, and the heartbreaking loss of many of our best young people in Iraq I HAD to decide to care.

Three years ago I saw Barack Obama on some television interview, and then read more and more about him. I decided to do more research and inform myself so that if I chose to support someone, it was with all the information, all the history, and a balanced perspective into that persons choices. I did not choose to back him based on his appearance, his charisma, his popularity, or his rhetoric. I chose based on his leadership skills, his integrity, his compassion for the American people, and his intellect.

I had the good fortune to attend an event in Las Vegas and even to shake Barack Obama's hand. All the giddy little girl excitement was palpable as he approached, but it soon gave way to the deep respect and admiration for this Senator's strength, his commitment to stay on target of his purpose to lead our country.

After reading "Audacity of Hope" and his auto-biography "Dreams From My Father" I was even more interested in learning about the political endeavors of Barack Obama. His website provides some very clear and interesting points and is easy to read. For anyone curious about him I highly recommend browsing it.

Barack Obama not only opposed this "Dumb war" from the beginning, but he's been active and direct in his efforts to help us get out. He has encouraged his fellow Senators and political peers to engage in diplomacy, in holding George Bush accountable, and in doing all possible to stop and exit this terrible situation. He has not enabled, will not ignore or pacify, and is willing to strongly initiate and support the laws and political moves necessary to get us out. I'm so very proud of him. I hope others will see that his judgment, his strength of character, and his deep commitment to doing what's right whether it makes him popular or not is far more important than opinion polls.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:49 PM
Response to Original message
12. I guess we have silly people in all walks of life.
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
13. "this is not a post in support of any candidate". We'll just disregard your "Obama 08" display.
Oh brother! :eyes:
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durrrty libby Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #13
19. Lol ... He seems so young and naive. That's why I held back from
what I really wanted to say
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:00 PM
Response to Original message
15. thanks for elucidating your point of view
For me it's the IWR, Kyl-Lieberman, and her below-the-belt campaign strategy.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
17. Look for the cheap shots from the usual Hillary brigade
Like you mentioned, it's all about lobbing cheap shots and childish rants over policy-related conversation from most in the Hillary camp here on DU. It's the only place I know where people actually opening voice supporting her.

Let the "fun" begin.


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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:18 PM
Response to Original message
20. Thanks for taking the time to write this, hnmmf. I find it mirrors
my own timeline with Hillary in how I went from "avid supporter/defender" to "anybody but". We have a wonderful lineup of candidates to choose from and I hope people can see above the fear and hate she inspires in her campaign and in her followers. Have a wonderful day :-)
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. what fear and hate?
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
59. 2nd. and if you think roll of the dice is hate and fear, wow.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
27. A vote for Clinton is a vote for a republican!
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:47 AM
Response to Reply #27
57. really? republicans support kyoto and universal health care?
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #57
73. Nope. And neither does Hillary - at least as far as health care is concerned,
and frankly, Kyoto is the last decade's response -- we need to move WAY beyond Kyoto to address global climate change. That bandwagon has long since passed us by.
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rAVES Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #57
75. Universial Health care? only a dull boy/girl would read that plan and call it that..
:rofl:

maybe you didnt read it though.. dont blame you.. its very long..
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
31. Try building your own candidate up next time.
Instead of tearing down another from your own party.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #31
32. Tell your chosen candidate that.
kthxbai
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. They all can be told that.
For all the good it will do.
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sellitman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Duplicate
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 04:01 PM by sellitman
Duplicate
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #31
49. I build Obama and Biden up plenty of times.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:34 PM
Response to Original message
38. It's funny how people love the past so much.......
and want more of it!


Don't forget NAFTA you corporate lovers.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #38
52. You clearly hate America!
Corporate America that is. Good for you. :)

Its the dirty corporate money that will prevent me from voting for Hillary.
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Nimrod2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:37 PM
Response to Original message
39. k
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:38 PM
Response to Original message
40. I don't care how much the Obamites repeat it, the Clinton campaign did NOT go negative.
Edited on Wed Dec-26-07 04:40 PM by Perry Logan
The Obama people obviously believe any form of criticism is dirty politics. This is all the more ironic, as the Obama supporters have posted more dirty stuff here at DU than all other members put together.
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earthlover Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. Nah...nothing negative in the Hillary campaign.....DENIAL FRONT CENTER!
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 08:37 PM
Response to Reply #40
51. Prove it.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:46 AM
Response to Reply #40
56. maybe obama fans are very young? don't know, they're buying into this victimization hook/line/sinker
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #40
74. Just as the Shillarys believe that anybody posting reservations
about their goddess must be Obama supporters.

Me, I don't see any particular difference between them, outside him rejecting mandated insurance and not joining the DLC.
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BlueJac Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
41. Hillary supporters.........
act just like Hillary.....nough said.
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L0oniX Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-26-07 06:08 PM
Response to Original message
46. If the democrats really wanted to win then they would'nt want a woman or a black to be running.
Some of my best friends are black and I am married and love my wife. I have nothing against women or blacks. The problem is that many others especially from the south still hate black people and many men still think women are unequal. There would be less risk of defeat if we didn't have a woman or a black running. 2008 should not be put at risk because we want to try something new.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #46
60. and this is why the democratic party is great, because we believe we can change things...
and we don't have to have an all white all male line up out of being scared to move forward.
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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
53. Great rant! K&R
"My problems with her have led me to a point where if she receives the nomination, I will have a hard time rallying behind her. I may even give Bloomberg a look if he runs. Ultimately I see myself supporting her, but I just know that this party can do so much better. Whether it is Biden, Obama, Dodd, or Edwards, this party stands for something better than Hillary Clinton."

You hit the nail right on the head. Even if that mountain of corporate cash can buy her the nomination, then what? How am I supposed to encourage everyone I know to vote for her as a way to stop the spread of corporatism when she is their poster child? How do I convince myself and other working class folks to send money or take time out to help her win just so she can sell us out?

This party can do better and has no excuse not to. If she wins the nom, my vote is "off the table".
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:44 AM
Response to Original message
54. Do you live in a swing state, red state or blue state?
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #54
69. Depends
My home address in a blue (NJ), my school adress is in a swing state (WI).

Did it make it seem like I wouldnt vote for her in the GE? Cuz that is not entirely true, though if she gets the nomination and bloomberg runs, I will seriously look at him.
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College Liberal Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:45 AM
Response to Original message
55. If her supporters keep it up i won't either
Her supporters are truly annoying. They are sad.
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #55
58. that's the way i feel about obama supporters here and on other sites but...
i keep trying to ignore those people that are that fucked up, ya know? it's hard, but i think some people are just really angry and nasty people, and politics bring out the worst in some people. Try to realize it's coming from both obama and hil people, and don't throw good candidates by the way side b/c people are strange. :).
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College Liberal Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:58 AM
Response to Reply #58
61. Thanks, i needed that
Edited on Thu Dec-27-07 01:58 AM by College Liberal
When this campaign started i was all for the first woman and or black president. I supported Edwards because he was the "Home Town Hero" but after being her for about 3 days and getting attacked by Clinton supporters for the most trivial and mean-spirited things i just view her in a different light. :(

You don't win supporters by being nasty, Duh :shrug:
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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:26 AM
Response to Reply #61
62. yeah, i'm with you...i can only read politcal comments online for so long...
b/c of all the hating and negativity. it's so odd. really frustrating, especially when people want to talk about the nuances of politics or campaigning and all the bs overwhelms any possibility of that, it gets frustrating. :).
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College Liberal Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:32 AM
Response to Reply #62
63. I agree
I would hate to lose to the Republicans in the Fall because of what we said or did in the primary....
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Beacool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
64. You are entitled to your opinion, even though some points would be easy to rebut.
I'll tell you the same thing I tell anybody who doesn't like her: don't vote for her. See, it's quite simple. No one is forcing you to vote for Hillary. I have no intention on voting for Obama, but neither do I feel the urge to go on a rant about the guy. :shrug:
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RaleighNCDUer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:05 AM
Response to Reply #64
77. Well, that's the difference between you, as a Hillary supporter,
and certain others who are HillShills.

But as this is a political discussion board, I like to be able to express WHY I think as I do, tell what I see are the differences in policies espoused by the candidates. In response, the HillShills tell me I am sexist. They deliberately try to short-circut any real discussion.

I can't wait till after the election when any number of them, and 'supporters' of other candidates reveal themselves to be the trolls they are.
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College Liberal Donating Member (561 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #64
92. Thanks
I really needed the advice. So, if Obama gets the Nod you will sit out the Election? Noted....
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 04:27 AM
Response to Original message
65. What gives?
"Now this is not a post in support of any candidate, and I know it will be taken that way."

With your Obama tag how can you be believed?
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. I'm undecided in who I will support
I forgot to put back up my Biden pic. I'm torn between the two.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 01:00 AM
Response to Reply #70
94. The Obama tag gives the impression
That you are not torn but decided.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 01:02 AM
Response to Reply #94
95. Do you see that pic I have as well?
That's Joe Biden.
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LynneSin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 07:22 AM
Response to Original message
66. Rename your post to "Why I have no problem with repukes in the White House"
Not saying that Hillary will get the nomination but this is bullshit.

I can't wait til the primaries are over with and this shit gets locked for the "Why I'd rather see a republican in the White House than vote for so-n-so"
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indimuse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 07:43 AM
Response to Original message
67. 66 comments..1 WEEK...time to DUMP your thread!
Edited on Thu Dec-27-07 07:45 AM by indimuse
:evilgrin:
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #67
68. Do you mean less than 24 hours?
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
71. Thanks so much for letting us know.
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Myrina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
72. I can't say whether or not they love each other, but ...
... the two of them are absolutely addicted to power. That's what's kept them together all this time.
He's a spotlight junkie and she's a power junkie. They feed each other's addictions.

I liked Bill until '95 when he dragged the left to the center/right - then the scales fell from my eyes and
I realized that for him - for them - its all about the power. That impression was solidified when she carpet
bagged to NY and ran for Senate with less-than-subtle intentions toward a WH run.

Just my .02 ~ flame away.
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BigDDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #72
76. "That's what's kept them together "
With all your insiders knowledge, you really should write a book.
How long have you know the Clinton's?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:48 AM
Response to Original message
80. Hillary Clinton is proudly DLC. That's all I have to know.
She won't be getting my vote in the primary. If she's shoved down my throat in the general election, I'll have to vote one handed - the other firmly holding my nose.
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johncoby2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 11:58 AM
Response to Original message
81. Go vote for Kucinich and shut up. Please.
This is getting old.

"Why I am voting for <fill in the blank>"

Who the *uck cares who you are voting for? Instead of playing with your keyboard, go do something that will help the country and the party.

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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:43 PM
Response to Reply #81
86. Because this is a political board. Or haven't you figured that out... NT
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #81
89. So why are you playing with your keyboard?
Or is it something else you're playing with?
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #89
90. gee -- your very reply indicates you must be playing with your keyboard.
Enough with the potty talk. Grow up.

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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 01:44 PM
Response to Reply #90
91. Actually I was speaking to the poster you replied to.
I think it was funny that someone ragged on you for "playing with your keyboard" while they were obviously doing the same. The irony of someone telling you to go do something besides posting while they're posting is just too funny to me.
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Perry Logan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
84. Here is Hillary's record. It's astounding that people talk about not voting for her.
Senator Clinton supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Humane Society of the United States 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Trust for Historic Preservation 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Leadership Conference on Civil Rights 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Education Association 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Wilderness Coalition 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the League of Conservation Voters 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Children's Defense Fund 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Association of University Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Organization for Women 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 91 percent in 2006.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the U.S. Public Interest Research Group 100 percent in 2005

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence 100 percent from 1988-2003 (Senate) or 1991-2003 (House).

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Public Health Association 80 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Brotherhood of Boilermakers 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Service Employees International Union 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Auto Workers 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the AFL-CIO 93 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the United Electrical Radio and Machine Workers 84 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Worker 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of State, County & Municipal Employees 88 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the American Federation of Government Employees 83 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the National Committee for an Effective Congress 95 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Americans for Democratic Action 100 percent in 2005.

According to the National Journal - Composite Liberal Score's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on economic, defense and foreign policy issues than 80 percent of the Senators.

According to the National Journal - Liberal on Social Policy's calculations, in 2005, Senator Clinton voted more liberal on social policy issues than 83 percent of the Senators.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Alliance for Retired Americans 100 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans 92 percent in 2005.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the Bread for the World 100 percent in 2003-2004.

Senator Clinton supported the interests of the The Partnership for the Homeless 100 percent in 2003-2004.
http://www.vote-smart.org/issue_rating_category.php?can_id=WNY99268

She was promoting universal coverage before it was cool. Furthermore she helped to create the SCHIP program. And most importantly she was dead on in the debate the other week where she said political will was the most important thing needed to push health care reform through and we know without a doubt she has that.

She has fougt unrelentingly for a woman's right to choose as well as women's rights both domestically and abroad

Create a Strategic Energy Fund - Hillary has proposed a Strategic Energy Fund that would inject $50 billion into research, development and deployment of renewable energy, energy efficiency, clean coal technology, ethanol and other homegrown biofuels. Hillary's proposal would give oil companies a choice: invest in renewable energy or pay into the fund. Hillary's proposal would also eliminate oil company tax breaks and make sure that oil companies pay their fair share for drilling on public lands. Instead of sending billions of dollars to the Middle East for their oil, Hillary's proposal will create a new clean energy industry in America and create tens of thousands of jobs here.

Champion a Market-Based "Cap and Trade" Approach - Hillary supports a market-based, cap and trade approach to reducing carbon emissions and fight global warming. This approach was used successfully to limit sulfur dioxide and reduce levels of acid rain in the 1990s. By capping the amount of emissions in the environment and allowing corporations to buy and sell permits, this approach offers corporations a flexible, cost-efficient method to do their share to reduce emissions and combat global warming. The program will reduce emissions, drive the development of clean technologies, and create a market for projects that store carbon dioxide.

20% Renewable Electricity Standard by 2020 - Hillary believes we need to shift our reliance on high carbon electricity sources to low-carbon electricity sources by investing in renewable energy sources, such as solar and wind. As President, she'll work to require power companies to obtain 20 percent of their energy from renewable sources by 2020.

Make Federal Buildings Carbon Neutral - Hillary believes that the federal government should lead the way in reducing carbon emissions from buildings. Buildings account for 40 percent of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions, and the federal government owns or leases more than 500,000. Hillary would require all federal buildings to steadily increase the use of green design principles, energy efficient technologies, and to generate energy on-site from solar and other renewable sources. By 2030, all new federal buildings and major renovations would be carbon neutral, helping to fight global warming and cutting the $5.6 billion that the federal government spends each year on heating, cooling and lighting.

Protecting Against Exposure to Toxic Chemicals - Hillary wants to make the products we use safer, especially for children. There are tens of thousands of chemicals used in the U.S. and hundreds of new chemicals introduced each year, but little health testing is conducted for many of them. Hillary would require chemical companies to prove that new chemicals are safe before they are put on the market, and would set more stringent exposure standards for kids. She would also create a "priority list" of existing chemicals and require testing to make sure they are safe. To improve our understanding of the links between chemicals and diseases like cancer, Hillary would create an "environmental health tracking network" that ties together information about pollution and chronic diseases.

Hillary's Record

In the White House, Hillary led efforts to make adoption easier, to expand early learning and child care, to increase funding for breast cancer research, and to help veterans suffering from Gulf War syndrome who had too often been ignored in the past. She helped launch a national campaign to prevent teen pregnancy and helped create the Adoption and Safe Families Act of 1997, which moved children from foster care to adoption more quickly and the number of children who have moved out of foster care into adoption has increased dramatically.

She was instrumental in designing and championing the State Children's Health Insurance Program, which has provided millions of children with health insurance. She battled the big drug companies to force them to test their drugs for children and to make sure all kids get the immunizations they need through the Vaccines for Children Program. Immunization rates dramatically improved after the program launched.

Hillary has been a leading member of the Environment and Public Works Committee since she was elected to the Senate. Today, she chairs the Superfund and Environmental Health Subcommittee and in that capacity has promoted legislation to evaluate and protect against the impact of environmental pollutants on people's health and clean up toxic waste.

Global warming and Clean Air
Spoken out forcefully about the need to tackle global warming in hearings, speeches, rallies and on the Senate floor and co-sponsored "cap and trade" legislation.
Worked to reduce air pollution that causes asthma and other respiratory diseases by writing and helping to pass new laws to clean up exhaust from school buses, and other diesel-powered equipment.
Supported legislation to reduce pollution from power plants, including harmful emissions of sulfur dioxide, nitrogen oxides, mercury, and carbon dioxide - emissions that contribute to poor air quality, smog, acid rain, global warming, and mercury contamination of fish.
Aggressively fought the Bush Administration's ill-advised attempts to weaken clean air laws.

Improving Water Quality and Protecting Drinking Water
Helped to overturn the Bush Administration's attempt to allow more arsenic in drinking water.
Cosponsored legislation to protect lakes, rivers and coastal waters by fighting the spread of destructive invasive species, such as the zebra mussel.
Helped ot pass new clean water laws, including measures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

Protecting Public Lands
Fought oil company efforts to pen the Artic Wildlife Refuge in Alask and Pacific and Atlantic coastal waters to drilling.
Cosponsored the Roadless Area Conservation Act, which prohibits road construction and logging in unspoiled, roadless areas of the National Forest System, and voted for additional funding and manpower to combat forest fires in the west.

Reducing Dangerous Chemicals and Cleaning Up Hazardous Waste
Supported legislation to restore the "polluter pays" principle by reinstating a chemical company fee to fund cleanups of highly contaminated "Superfund" waste sites.
Cosponsored the "kids-Safe Chemical Act," which requires chemical companies to provide health and safety before putting new chemicals in consumer products.
Proposed legislation to create an environmental health tracking network to enable us to better understand the impact of environmental hazards on human health and well-being.

Tackling the Toxic Legacy of 9/11
Pushed for health care benefits for first responders, residents and others whose health has been impacted from breathing the toxic dust and smoke in New York City after 9/11.
http://www.mydd.com/story/2007/8/20/134810/677

Hillary Clinton co-founded the Arkansas Advocates for Children and Families, a state-level alliance with the Children's Defense Fund, in 1977. In late 1977, President Jimmy Carter (for whom she had done 1976 campaign coordination work in Indiana) appointed her to the board of directors of the Legal Services Corporation, and she served in that capacity from 1978 through the end of 1981. For much of that time she served as the chair of that board, the first woman to do so. During her time as chair, funding for the Corporation was expanded from $90 million to $300 million, and she successfully battled against President Ronald Reagan's initial attempts to reduce the funding and change the nature of the organization.

Following the November 1978 election of her husband as Governor of Arkansas, Clinton became First Lady of Arkansas in January 1979, her title for a total of twelve years. Bill appointed her chair of the Rural Health Advisory Committee the same year, where she successfully obtained federal funds to expand medical facilities in Arkansas' poorest areas without affecting doctors' fees.

Hillary Clinton chaired the Arkansas Educational Standards Committee from 1982 to 1992, where she sought to bring about reform in the state's court-sanctioned public education system. One of the most important initiatives of the entire Clinton governorship, she fought a prolonged but ultimately successful battle against the Arkansas Education Association to put mandatory teacher testing as well as state standards for curriculum and classroom size in place. She introduced Arkansas' Home Instruction Program for Preschool Youth in 1985, a program that helps parents work with their children in preschool preparedness and literacy.

And a bit of stuff from the White House years:

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage. She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare. She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.

The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome. Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice. In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.

Along with Senator Ted Kennedy, she was the major force behind the State Children's Health Insurance Program in 1997, a federal effort that provided state support for children whose parents were unable to provide them with health coverage.<124> She promoted nationwide immunization against childhood illnesses and encouraged older women to seek a mammogram to detect breast cancer, with coverage provided by Medicare.<125> She successfully sought to increase research funding for prostate cancer and childhood asthma at the National Institutes of Health.<43> The First Lady worked to investigate reports of an illness that affected veterans of the Gulf War, which became known as the Gulf War syndrome.<43> Together with Attorney General Janet Reno, Clinton helped create the Office on Violence Against Women at the Department of Justice.<43> In 1997, she initiated and shepherded the Adoption and Safe Families Act, which she regarded as her greatest accomplishment as First Lady.<43> As First Lady, Clinton hosted numerous White House Conferences, including ones on Child Care (1997),<126> Early Childhood Development and Learning (1997),<127> and Children and Adolescents (2000),<128> and the first-ever White House Conferences on Teenagers (2000)<129> and Philanthropy (1999).<130>

Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary_Clinton

"...Hillary Clinton traveled to over eighty countries during this time,<131> breaking the mark for most-travelled First Lady held by Pat Nixon.<132> In a September 1995 speech before the Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing, Clinton argued very forcefully against practices that abused women around the world and in China itself.<133> She was one of the most prominent international figures at the time to speak out against the treatment of Afghan women by the Islamist fundamentalist Taliban that had seized control of Afghanistan.<134><135> She helped create Vital Voices, an international initiative sponsored by the United States to promote the participation of women in the political processes of their countries..."

More:
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/israel/index.cfm
http://clinton.senate.gov/issues/nationalsecurity/darfur


The following are polls from progressive groups, rating Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama, on how often they vote for progressive issues. For each group, http://www.theleftcoaster.com/archives/011142.php

Clinton Vs. Barack Obama (progressivepunch)
Overall Progressive Score: 92% 90%
Aid to Less Advantaged People at Home and Abroad: 98% 97%
Corporate Subsidies 100% N/A
Education, Humanities and the Arts 88% 100%
Environment 92% 100%
Fair Taxation 97% 100%
Family Planning 88% 80%
Government Checks on Corporate Power 95% 97%
Healthcare 98% 94%
Housing 100% 100%
Human Rights & Civil Liberties 82% 77%
Justice for All: Civil and Criminal 94% 91%
Labor Rights 91% 91%
Making Government Work for Everyone, Not Just the Rich or Powerful 94% 90%
War and Peace 80% 86%
easures to protect New York City's water supplies and clean up Long Island Sound.

HILLARY'S EXPERIENCE ON THE WORLD STAGE:

Her historic speech at the UN Fourth World Conference on Women in Beijing in 1995 not only galvanized women around the world, it helped spawn a movement that led to advances politically, legally, economically, and socially for women in many countries over the next decade. Among other initiatives, she spearheaded the Clinton Administration's efforts to combat the global crisis of human trafficking. She persuaded the First Ladies of the Americas to use their collective power to eradicate measles and improve girls' education throughout the western Hemisphere. And she is widely credited with helping women in Kuwait finally win the right to vote.

As First Lady and now as a two-term senator who represents the most ethnically diverse state in the nation and who sits on the Armed Services Committee, Hillary Clinton has become a fixture on international issues over the past 15 years. She has traveled to more than 80 countries, going from barrios to rural villages to meetings with heads of state. She has consulted with dozens of world leaders - Nelson Mandela, King Abdullah, Tony Blair among them -- on matters as diverse as America and NATO's roles in Kosovo, eradicating poverty in the Third World, and the plight of women living under the Taliban in Afghanistan.

Today, she is one of the most influential voices in the world on human rights, democracy, and the promotion of a "new internationalism" in foreign affairs that calls for a balanced use of military force, diplomacy, and social development to strengthen American interests and security globally.

While American First Ladies historically have made great (and often overlooked) contributions to our nation, Hillary Clinton's wide-ranging experience on international issues as First Lady is unprecedented. Indeed, she is the only First Lady to have delivered foreign policy addresses at major gatherings of the United Nations, the World Bank, the Council on Foreign Relations, and the World Economic Forum.

Hillary Clinton has been fighting for the rights of children for special needs for decades. In her first job out of law school working for the Children's Defense Fund, she conducted research that led to Congress passing the Education for All Handicapped Children Act of 1975, the landmark bill mandating that all children with disabilities be educated in the public school system. later, she helped improve the education of children with special needs by working to reauthorize the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act. In 2005, she sponsored an amendment to increase funding for the act by $4 billion dollars. She also cosponsored the Personal Excellence for Children with Disabilities Act, a bill that promised to help schools recruit and retain new special education teachers, and better prepare general education teachers and staff to work with children with special needs.

Most recently, she has called for greatly expanded funding to the National Institute for Health to investigate treatments for children with disabilities. And she has put forth a comprehensive and detailed plan to help children and families affected by autism, with numerous elements that correspond very closely to what families in the autism community have been demanding for years.
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JMDEM Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:45 PM
Response to Reply #84
87. What is truly astounding is that the Hillbots around here...
Don't mention all of the things you post. Instead they attack, divert, and do anything to draw attention away from the actual issues. Why is that Perry? I have to hand it to you that you bring the discussion back to the issues, but why don't any of the others? They are kind of rabid, and I can't figure out why.

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annie1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 01:03 AM
Response to Reply #87
96. same goes for Obama supporters though from what i've been reading.
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boricua79 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 12:47 PM
Response to Original message
88. You answered your own questions
"Her husband has embarrassed her many times over and she sticks with him…why? Is it because she really loves him or is it because this is another one of her calculations?"

If Clinton was a plumber, she would have let his cheating ass. But because forgiving him was much more beneficial to her, she decided to forgive him. Who is going to give up being the wife of a former president, with all the financial, reputation, and life benefits it gives?
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davidwparker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-27-07 02:54 PM
Response to Original message
93. To whom do we give the 'credit' for Alan Greenspan? Wasn't he another
Clinton appointment? The same Greenspan whose policies allowed for the mortgage crisis that blew up in our faces after Greenspan was gone.
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Q3JR4 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
97. So if Hillary gets the nomination what do you do?
Do you vote for the republican business-as-usual-let's-kill-or-oppress-everyone-who-isn't-rich-white-christian-or-male candidate? Do you cast your vote for the Green party candidate knowing that nothing has ever come of it and this time might be the same?

Or do you sit at home on your hands come election day hoping that whatever it is you want gets implemented?

If you don't vote for the democratic candidate, and I can see where you're coming from I'm not feeling any of them, what else are you going to do?

That's the question all of you naysayers (not just Hillary supporters/haters, Obama supporters/haters, but EVERYONE of you) have to ask yourselves.

Q3JR4.
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MadBadger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:49 AM
Response to Reply #97
98. I'm talking about the primary here
If she wins the nomination, Ill vote for her. But if Bloomberg gets in the race, I will seriously consider him.
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ejbr Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 10:17 AM
Response to Original message
99. Here's the "heat"
I’m sure Ill take heat for this, but I have trouble respecting a candidate who has so little respect for themselves. This man doesn’t love her and anybody who thinks he does is foolish.

I was with you until I read the above, then thought: this type of statement demonstrates the same "negative" smears that this post is railing against. At face value, this is ridiculous considering she is one of the most admired women in the world (how is this done with little self-respect), but to assume that she has little respect for herself because she stuck with Bill (could her priorities be different than yours, yes even being politically calculating?) is presumptious to say the least. I think her staying, considering her public face, demonstrates significant self-respect. She has enough self-respect to endure this very accusation.

And just because a man can't keep his dick in his pants (you know, a phenomena that has been occurring since the beginning of time) does not mean that he does not love his spouse. There are many open-relationships that refute this notion of fidelity=love.

Aside from that, no, she is not my first choice either.
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