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Ron Paul is against Social Security, would shut it down after short term...against Civil Rights Act,

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 01:55 AM
Original message
Ron Paul is against Social Security, would shut it down after short term...against Civil Rights Act,
against federal education, against government expenditures.

In fact he said this about Katrina victims.

Voted NO on sending aid to Katrina victims.

"Last year, Congress decided to send billions of dollars to victims of Hurricane Katrina. Guess how Ron Paul voted.

"Is bailing out people that chose to live on the coastline a proper function of the federal government?" he asks. "Why do people in Arizona have to be robbed in order to support the people on the coast?"


I found this at the American Prospect blog tonight. Some of it is alarming to me. He would wait a while to actually end Social Security while letting younger people choose other options. That is a view that is so dangerous I get shivers. Young people will, like those before Social Security was enacted in 1935, have to provide financially for their parents' care far more than they realize.

What Ron Paul doesn't say is that when you have less funding coming in, then you have to cut benefits.

Ezra Klein presents the Full Paul

He is speaking of the Paul interview with Russert.

But it's also useful to read the transcript in its entirety in order to better grasp the coherence within Paul's thought. His Constitutionalism does not limit itself to anti-imperialism: He's also against the Civil Rights Act, and federal education, and maintaining Social Security, and funding government expenditures. Paul is, to be sure, probably not a cruel man, and he does not come off as such here. He admits the need to retain Social Security in the short-term, but says, "I think we need to get--give--offer the kids the chance to get out." That is to say, he wants to destroy the program. In 1998, his platform included the abolition of public schools. Now, it's softened, and he just wants to devolve the authority to the states, which is, in most forms, a way of destroying public schools at a slightly lower rate. He does not oppose the Civil Rights Act on grounds of racism, but because "it's a property rights issue." But whether these positions are motivated by malice or originalism is somewhat beside the point: They are still wrong, and their outcomes would indeed be cruel.

Moreover, they are all of a piece, inseparable from the whole of his ideology. It is what Paul calls "liberty." It is anti-imperialist, anti-PATRIOT Act, anti-wiretapping. But it is also anti-foreign aid, anti-Social Security, anti-Medicare, anti-government. His would be a world in which the United States neither invades Iraq nor uses its tax code to fund a system of pension supports and health care guarantees for the elderly. A world in which we cut our military aid to Israel, and end the minimum wage. A world in which we close down the wiretapping program, and allow states to close down a woman's access to an abortion.

This is the world he is selling to his supporters, this is the definition of liberty that his candidacy will seek to propagate.


Stop Social Security, slowly demolish public education, do away with abortion, demolish Medicare, keep the government from helping people, stop health care guarantees for the elderly...and so on.

This is the scariest agenda I have heard, and so many young people are falling for it. He says if Paul continues with the large donations pouring in, it will become a movement with negative consequences for our country.

It will also be a movement dedicated to a strident version of individualism, an unremitting hostility towards government intervention in the economy, a profound loathing of regulation, and a narrow, negative definition of "liberty" that most progressives would find antithetical to their beliefs.

..."it's particularly disastrous, as it redefines a basic political concept -- "liberty" -- in an extreme and deeply conservative way.


One of the comments from the blog caught my interest.

Ron Paul has no chance whatsoever of becoming the next president. He's a fringe candidate polling in the single digits. Sorry, this is the real world, not the fantasies of Ayn Rand. Americans, like the vast majority of voters in rich countries, sensibly value the economic stability afforded by government-provided social insurance, consumer protection laws, and prudent regulation of the economy. And there’s a reason such things are popular, by the way: for millions of people, life was brutish, nasty and short before the advent of the evil welfare state.

Ron Paul’s radical libertarianism is thankfully a fringe movement. The numbers don’t lie.


I do hope that person is right. His beliefs would go beyond what Bush wants to do, they would turn our safety nets for the poor and elderly upside down. Young people often don't think of those things.

They are already privatizing Medicare without saying it. They are sending massive numbers of ads around to sign up for new programs....these will divert a person from the traditional Medicare. They may not be able to get back on it.



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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:21 AM
Response to Original message
1. I loved his "Deer in the Headlights" interview with Tweety over Pakistan
Methinks the dear Doctor had to change his undies once he realized someone was asking him an important question regarding foreign policy. What *his* foreign policy would be regarding Pakistan. He proved he knows jack shit about anything, other than his own little *reality*. What an absolute WASTE of breathable oxygen this nutbag is!
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Lasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:27 AM
Response to Original message
2. Paul is an idiot who is just saying what some people want to hear.
He's clearly opposed to a woman's right to chose. But he doesn't have the guts to openly assault Roe v. Wade for this reason. He instead cites a version of the Constitution that doesn't exist, one that he alone controversially interprets, to proclaim that this is to be decided by the states, not the federal government. Then he votes for the federal ban of partial birth abortions.

He was the only person in congress to vote against recognizing Rosa Parks by giving her a medal. But no, he wasn't pandering to the racists who love him. He is bound by his Mystic Consitution to refrain from spending federal money on the medal. Then he earmarks $8 million for 'Wild American Shrimp Marketing' in his home district.
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 09:20 AM
Response to Reply #2
20. I think the only redeeming factor might be his recent vote against
the Safe Act, he and another republican (Paul Broun) were the only two to vote against it.
http://www.news.com/8301-13578_3-9829759-38.html
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Joe Bacon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #2
23. Ron Paul floats around in his Ayn Randian LASSIEZ FAIRYLAND®
That idiot floats up up up in the rarefied air where the masochists and the maiming pimps who run the Republican Party converge. Reminds me of the Star Trek episode with the floating cities where the elites were totally disconnected from the masses.

Asshole wants to do away with Social Security completely. Oh if only my grandmother were still here, she would blister that ignorant motherfather's ears off with tales of the POOR FARMS and POOR HOUSES that Christian Charity rackets ran before FDR came to power.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:37 AM
Response to Original message
3. I agree with Paul on his foreign policy! We DO need to quit meddling
in everybody elses business!

BUT....

On everything else, he's a NUT!
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Pauls foreign policy...
why kill them over there when we can kill them over here.
he is one scarey nutjob, for sure.
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ColbertWatcher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 03:32 AM
Response to Original message
5. If Ron Paul is so anti-government...
...why the hell is he running to hold a government job?
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. Like all Republicans in office....
to show just how "bad" government is by running it into the ground themselves.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:02 AM
Response to Reply #5
16. for the free health care n/t
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cstanleytech Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #5
21. Good one
:rofl:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
6. Do not fail to read the comments at the TAPPED blog.
Some of them are giving me shivers about where we have gone as a country.

Here's the link from the OP.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/ezraklein_archive?month=12&year=2007&base_name=the_full_paul
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. He is a scary man
On his own website: "It is now accepted that people who need (medical) care are entitled to it as a right. This is a serious error in judgment."

Anyone who says such a thing is either an idiot or a monster, and either way he's very dangerous!!!

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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. Do you have a link to that statement?
Edited on Fri Dec-28-07 05:16 PM by madfloridian
I had not seen that statement, and it goes against the grain of human compassion.

Would he walk out on a patient with no health care because they are not "entitled."?

Do you have a link to that statement? I would like to read all of it.
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chascarrillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Link
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Wow, I see a lot of stuff there that needs examining....found that paragraph.
"The practice of medicine is now a government-managed care system, and very few Americans are happy with it. Not only is there little effort to extricate the federal government from the medical-care business, but the process of expanding the government's role continues unabated. At the turn of the 19th Century, it was not even considered a possibility that medical care was the responsibility of the federal government. Since Lyndon Johnson's Great Society programs of the 1960s, the role of the federal government in delivering medical care has grown exponentially. Today the federal government pays more than 60% of all the medical bills and regulates all of it. The demands continue for more free care at the same time complaints about the shortcomings of managed care multiply. Yet it's natural to assume that government planning and financing will sacrifice quality care. It is now accepted that people who need care are entitled to it as a right. This is a serious error in judgment."

He does not see the world as I do at all. I don't see people sticking out grubby hands begging for welfare. I see people who out of jobs with no money to pay for insurance needing health care.

We can not turn our backs on them and turn them out in to the cold without health care assistance.

He comes across very cold in this paper. Very cold.

Jesus said when you have done it unto the least of these my brethen, you have done it unto me.

Where are all our fine Christians now?

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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. Thank you, madfloridian. n/t
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Dec-28-07 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
10. Shorter Ron Paul
Everyone should be free to die a premature death for the greater profits of the overrich. But you can smoke pot.
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ingac70 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
13. Ron Paul is what Republicans say they are...
sans the blood thirsty warmongering. He wants to return the US to a pre- New Deal state.

Gotta give the guy credit for honesty.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:18 AM
Response to Reply #13
15. I can give no one credit for not believing in helping others
who need a hand up.

Sorry, but that is just so dangerous. What he said about Katrina victims did it for me.

Being honest and dead wrong does not deserve credit.
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orleans Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:04 AM
Response to Original message
17. HE'S A FUCKING FREAK! n/t
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 04:49 AM
Response to Original message
18. I still like him better than the other republicans. n/t
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pjt7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. I'd like to hear his detailed healthcare plan
The guy is a doctor & has treated people of need for free in the past.

The real question I have is how does he get Insurance companies out of the medical equation?
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cali Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 09:25 AM
Response to Reply #19
22. He doesn't get the insurance companies out of the equation
and why would you be interested in the little freak's healthcare plan? He doesn't believe that people are entitled to healthcare unless they pay for it.
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #19
27. I doubt it would be what you think.
Remember that he is not a liberal or a socialist, but a libertarian. Cali is right, his take on health care would probably be to lessen restrictions on the insurance companies. I also heard him say once that he would like to get rid of Medicare, but that it was probably too ambitious a goal in the short term.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:09 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. All the Republican candidates are crazy or evil or both..
why even try to make comparisons between the plague-ridden rats?
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D23MIURG23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
26. Its a valid question.
The only reason that I do is that I like the idea of having a nominee from both parties who openly aknowledges that the US has a constitution. To me turning back the clock on the advance of fascism in the US is far more important than any other issue, and I think that having Paul as republican nom would be a victory on that front.

Were Paul actually elected, I think he would do (or at least try to do) a lot of other things that are pretty objectionable. This is why I'm not a Ron Paul supporter or donor. But make no mistake, having Huckabee as a president (and this is who they will nominate, mark my words) would be 1000 times worse.
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kenfrequed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 12:01 PM
Response to Original message
24. Hmm
Edited on Sat Dec-29-07 12:03 PM by kenfrequed
I only agree with Ron Paul on the patriot act and how bad the neo cons are.

That said I think he is a good thing for the republican party. The best thing for them really. He cannot win the primary right now since he doesn't kowtow to the religious reich. Which for similar reasons I predicted would make Mittens and Ghouliani incapable of winning a primary months ago. Of course I also predicted Huckabee, Brownback, and McCain would do better either closer to a few primaries or after them so maybe I am not completely on target.

Anyhow, the longer Ron Paul stays in, the more the small-government-frustrated-with-the-neo-con republicans will attach to him. Again, he can't win, it just isn't possible. But what will happen is a cat fight for the republican nomination which complicates things for them.

Fast forward a few months towards the end of the primary process, Republicans already annoyed with the process and/or feeling ignored at their party's inability to get out of Iraq begin dropping out or run off to support the libertarians. If there is an economic downturn this will be even more pronounced.

Basically the longer Ron Paul stays in, the more he helps us by creating wedges between the small government crowd, the Wall-streeters, The Elmer Gantry folk, and the Nervous-nellie-security paranoids. We, as democrats don't really need to appeal to any of these folk. None. Some of us are stupidly doing so with regards to Wallstreet and the security crowd but this is not going to help us much. Wall street doesn't vote. And Americans can be convinced that we are more secure when we are less exposed interenationally speaking and that there are domestic situations that are far more important.

Honestly though, this guy could create a permanent long term disintegration of the republican party, and for that I am very grateful.

Of course though, I agree that he is really a nutbird.

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leftcoastie Donating Member (84 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
28. It seems that
many "Democrats" are lulled by Paul's stance against foreign intervention. He is a very scary "no government" libertarian who would dictate that your raped wifes, daughters, mothers and sisters bring their attacker's spawn to term. He would send the old folks off on ice floes (if there'll be any left) but of course, he wouldn't be on one. His view of absolute deregulation including the removal of all our regulatory protection institutions including Social Security, Medicare, EPA, FDA, NOAA (and others) would destroy the fabric of our "commons." Without our dependence on all our citizenry how could we call ourselves a country? If you don't care about your neighbor, will he be there to help your family from a fire or other disaster? I think not. His theory would be for you to get your own bootstraps.

I'm saving mine for the chaos that will ensure if Ron Paul had his way.
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Dec-29-07 11:06 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. I like that comment. He would say to "get your own bootstraps."
Good comment, welcome to DU
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