Hillary is Finished

Her only play is to go negative on Obama and that strategy backfired before. She can't run on her record because the most important vote she ever cast was the wrong one that led to the biggest foreign policy disaster in history. The least you could have done is admit your mistake like Edwards.

Bye Hillary, thanks for playing. You sold your soul and it is time to pay up.

Good luck to Edwards or Obama. Any combination of those two candidates is a winner.

In fact, it will still be close. But she really doesn't have any play at this point and the momentum factor for her has been broken.

A noun a verb and 9-11 and Youth are her new campaign themes.

Mark Penn will go down as the biggest idiot in politics today, there is no doubt now.

:)

But she's on the ropes and bleeding. She desperately NEEDS New Hampshire now to remain relevant. If she loses NH and it's not even close like Iowa...then yea, I'd say she's just about done.

I just don't see what play she has that doesn't involve going negative against Obama.

Michigan 1/15/08
latest poll
Hillary 37% / Obama 20% / Al Gore 13% / Edwards 11%

Nevada 1/19/08
latest poll
Hillary 45% / Obama 18% / Edwards 14%

22 states vote on February 5. Obama has to pass through much before he can proclaim Hillary vanquished.

I too hope for an Obama or Edwards win, but we've still got work to do, and a long ways to go. :thumbsup:

but I am so much more hopeful tonight. Even Obama has a new swagger. This really will be the turning point that Obama spoke of in his speech. The MSM tried to foist Hillary on us and we rejected her.

and a big experienced organization.

While I wish what you say were true, it isn't.

I've noticed a whole lot of posts on DU lately where somebody makes some big hyperbolic pronouncement and then expects that to suffice without any real analysis or facts to back up the big pronouncement.

I think Iowa definitely hurts Hill, but it's a long way from being over.

Didn't seem to help her much in Iowa...

with less money, less name recognition, far less of an organization have lost bigger than Hill lost in Iowa and come back to win the nomination.

If you want to believe that last nights results means it's all over for Hill, by all means go aheadd and believe that. But don't be surprised if it turns out you are wrong.

Hill is my last choice for the nomination. I'm a Kucinich supporter, and while I assume he won't be our nomininee I still intend to vote for him in our primary (MT) even if someone else has sown it up by then.

But while Iowa isn't good news for Hill, it is naive (in my opinion) to assume that it means it's all over for her.

It's too early..any damn thing can happen. We don't have crystal balls so maybe we should just be glad that "Change" won in Iowa tonight and go from there? :)

It just started.

You don't walk away from the trouncing she took.

Hillary is a strong candidate and so is Edwards. Yeah, Obama won and won big, brought in a whole lotta people tonight. It could change in the next few weeks.

With the schedule set up the way it is, where does Hillary pick up momentum? How does she inspire people when Obama is bring so many new people into the process? Especially with Edwards tag teaming with Obama to knock her as the establishment candidate.

HRC's campaign eschewed Iowa a long time ago, and her support down the road is much deeper than anyone else.

I don't want to sleight Obama in any way, and I'm not a big HRC supporter, but frankly, IMO, she's got a lot more brains and guts than Obama will have until he gets this and another term as Senator under his belt.

Clinton's not new to this game, she knows all the tricks and how to pick good people who know the tricks as well. It's a game now, and her team is very, very good at resource management.

Frankly, I think it was a good move to stay clear of Iowa, considering the effort of kissing all of that corn growing ass to get a handful of votes. Add to the mix that she saved her resources and let Obama and Edwards duke it out.

I wish Obama luck. He's going to need it. Because the eyes of the Terminator haven't gone out even for the first time.

BHN:evilgrin:

And thank God for it!!!

Having Edwards lose as well takes some of the sting out of it...

to do with being glad someone is finished as though a wish could make it so. This race launched today, and we have a long way to go. Save your negative thanks to God for Huckashuck, gouliani, or any repug for that matter. As in 2004, we all must come back together to defeat the worst thing that can happen to this country, being overtaken by religious zealots and neocon idealogues. If we can stay on good terms within our own party its been known to have a better outcome.

on edit: I empathize with your feeling of loss having felt so deeply hurt over Deans loss. I did so much work to see him win for our diabetic son and stem cell research. Lashing out at Edwards 2nd place finish is really twisting what the significance of his finish really is. Clinton lost this round on her own, Edwards had nothing to do with it.

But the significance of Edwards 2nd place finish is that he will not be the nominee...which is I think a very good thing for the Democratic Party...

Stop being nasty for nastiness sake Elmer.It does not do anyone any good.

He pulled a second-place tie with the big money, big name candidate and put her on the ropes when she was supposed to sweep every state she ran into. That shows that 1.) he is nowhere near out of the running yet and 2.) when it comes down to it people just don't like your candidate, so how about you keep those things in mind. If Edwards pulls a second in Nevada and New Hampshire and Hillary gets worse than she did here she is done and over with, if Edwards stays close and tight he could pull it off but if he gets knocked out Hillary is finished no matter how it goes down as his people will be able to swing over to Obama's. Face it, your candidate is dead in the water since she couldn't pull the quick one shot punch to win the match.

Edwards is not going to be able to ride Obama's coattails into a victory in New Hampshire...no matter how much spinning and contorting his supporters do...

Edwards is done...

Maybe you should stick to posting bogus polls about Hillary's unstoppable juggernaut. :rofl:

Hillary sold her soul to whoever was buying, whether it was Republicans or corporations. Your post reads like it isn't even responding to mine. I am happy for Edwards.

you were really responding to the post above you.

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/thebeat?pid=265081

Drop Clinton, then drop Obama. It's the economy, stupid.

Another one drunk on the excitement of the moment!!!! Hillary is far from finished. Since when has IA been accurate in predicting future presidents???

It's about the fact that all momentum has shifted and everyone is calling the Obama speech one of the great speeches of all time. They will replay that speech until N.H.

It is about the rhetoric like "Obama trounced Hillary" by the pundits.

Obama can trump her on Iraq in every debate from here on out.

Anyways, I think Obama has the momentum. A decisive win, and a very, very good victory speech. Hillary's myth of inevitability is broken. She needs NH, but it's gonna be a nail biter. I think Obama will very likely take SC now. I think the AA support for Hillary will shift (I think many simply doubted a black man could win a lilly white state like IA).

I'm impressed Obama could pull off this victory. I didn't think he could get the young folks to show up. And damn, what a showing for Democrats in general. I hope Edwards can remain relevant. I will still vote for him in the primary. I hope he does well in NH and SC.

Where's Michigan?

I thought her concession speech was classy and she earned some points with me unlike Edwards, who I continue to be completely unimpressed with.

She will make a fine Senator if she just holds back on the hawkish stuff. I do indeed wish her and her supporters well.

Other than her colossal mistake on Iraq, she has been an excellent Senator.

Her speech was very classy. I hope she goes back to the Senate and learns from her mistake.

3rd place hurts especially for Hillary, but this could just as easily (and more acurately) be read as a dead heat with Obama edging the other two out. If she wins NH then its back to square one.

with wins for Obama among youth and female voters. That is a really bad sign for Hillary.

I only know one woman for Hillary, a radical separatist lesbian. (That was a joke ladies, calm down.) The men I know for Hillary support her because that's the word from our senior senator, Inouye- and he calls major shots over here. Even those guys are backing up a little bit. The young people, the women and the progressives who aren't caucusing for Kucinich are with Obama. And some for Edwards, but -none- for Hill. Which is kind of a shame, she's a great lady.

Anyhow.

And Obama outspent his competition by a comfortable margin. This is still bad for HRC, but fatal or "trouncing" sounds like a bit of a stretch.

What is probably dead is the "inevitable" meme, and her campaign will need to replace that and regain some momentum.

I want Hillary gone as much as the next progressive, but I wouldn't celebrate prematurely. If she turns things around in NH we are back to square 1.

caucuses to Obama - shows Obama's one of the boyz, but anyway it was closer than what is being shown now as 38,30,30

As far as I can tell her basic strategy is similar to the guy who thinks being an asshole at the bar will get him laid.

:rofl:

Your candidate was complicit in the deaths of thousands of US soldiers and hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraq civilians. How funny is that?

Lay that guilt trip at Bush's feet, not at fellow Democrats.

The candidates who voted "yes" on the AuMF in Iraq lost.
MSNBC exit polls show Iraq war (tied with economy at 35%) to be the #1 issue for Iowa Democratic caucus goers.

The notion that the AuMF vote won't make any difference in 2008 is being laid to rest.

indicators. Hillary even lost among females.

n/t

one freaking caucus and the decision has been handed down already??

The big turnout is a referendum on Bush. The more America hates Bush the more Obama benefits. People see Hillary as Bush light. The fact that young people may finally have an impact in an election is cause to rejoice and their votes are mostly going to Obama.

What could Hillary possibly do at this point to turn things around? The war is her albatross. Can't you people get that?

The woman is a fighter, and I think it is a huge blunder to decry her conviction and chances so soon. It is relevant that most of those who have gone on to be president -- rightfully -- in recent memory lost Iowa: Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, William J. Clinton...

Tell us more Nostradamus.

today thinking, hey I think I am switching to Hillary. However the seed of doubt which has always festered among HRC supporters is growing roots and starting to sprout. Once that happens, watch it grow.

Wait until South Carolina and *the normal primaries* start.

Iowa made it a 2 horse race: Hillary and Obama (I like Edwards but he really has no chance). Obama will probably win New Hampshire and South Carolina - after that, Hillary's 20 point lead which she currently has in national polls, will shrink substantially. Whether it will shrink enough for Obama to overtake her by February 3rd is anybody's guess.

An establishment candidate with as much name-recognition and money as Hillary has, might be able to lose the first few states and still win the nomination.

if she loses new hampshire at all she's lost, no matter the margin. I think the only strategy she has is to use Bill and hope Bill gets people to vote for Hillary.

This is definitely not the '04 primary. Last time around, it was over after Iowa. This time, have to wait and see. Very possible that the next three primaries could have 3 different victors.

Their numbers, the leaders, are still too close to make a claim that we can skip the rest of the contests and proceed directly to Nov.

Even with Biden and Dodd dropped out, they will still be on the ballots as will Kucinich.

I really shudder to think of a Shuckabee presidency.

That explains the subdued mood here at DU today. The Obamites are celebrating, but after months of calling everyone in the opposing camp liars and cheats, all the "unity" shit seems hypocritical, to say the least.

with no evidence whatsoever. A meaningless post.

...easily have come from Freepers. With "allies" (Dems?) like these, who needs the right wingers? Show some more class, guys.

I'm sure there will be a few more before this is through. Your naivete is cute.

I don't think so.

I hope all BO supporters will embrace this attitude.
Go ahead, count her out....please.

or she is done.

Hillary is in the same situation as Romney. They need a win in NH in order to survive. If she doesn't win in NH she will be in a extremely bad position.

way too premature of a declaration.

However, I won't feel safe until she's defeated in New Hampshire. I was hoping for Edwards, but I'll take Obama in a heartbeat.

you got to win a majority or 2181 delegates. Yes the polling will change, but not the degree you all can start reserving rooms in d.c..

hrc will by march 4th at the latest have a majority of delegates.

Iowa is a bunch of far left nut roots loonys- wait until she campaigns in the moderate states!!!

who told you this is so? since you seem way, way, too sure of yourself....do you have inside information, the rest of us may not?...personally...I am a little leery about this win of Obama's....it seems surreal...as though it's all a smokescreen...I don't have a candidate, so I am not saying anything against any of them...but for someone to come here and make a blatant statement like you just did...well, frankly, my dear, it makes me wonder what you know, who told you...and if you'd be willing to share the information with the rest of us...I find such a strong statement regarding Hillary's quest of the nomination very interesting....wb

"Obama is Finished" threads?

First, I'm a Biden supporter and he is definately finished. But bullshit on Clinton being finished. New Hampshire is a different state than Iowa - we could see a very different outcome

we'll finally see the big picture.

with a huge amount of support in NH and a LARGE war chest. She has a very real shot at being Madame President.
If they are in the game, they are playing to win.

.....someone said it looked like Hillary was building a bridge to the 20th century. Teehee

She's probably just getting warmed up.

Dewey defeats Truman!!!!

I'm sure you have an inside track that the rest of don't to be able to maintain such an inviolate and absolute truth as the one you postulated... much like almost every other supporter in every other campaign for the past two hundred years or so. :eyes:

But as I've neither chosen on nor ruled out a candidate yet, I'm forced to maintain ignorance on and of the future, offering nothing more than predictions, hopes and wishes.

Since you're so good at this, maybe you could make a list of NFC winners for the next dozen years or so? My bookie would hate you, but I'd throw a few bucks your way... ("Well, it doesn't work that way..." said the psychic huckster on late night cable)

Hillary has been the darling of the MSM since day one, she has been using Bill to do her dirty work, she has tons of cash (mostly from corporations) and she still could only take third. She has nothing and can go nowhere because she F***** up her vote on Iraq and then didn't even have the guts to admit it was a mistake. She's finished, period and now we actually have a good chance in the GE, where we had none with Hillary.

No NFC absolute predictions?

Dewey still hanging in there...?

What card am I holding?

:rofl: