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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 05:22 AM
Original message
Here are my thoughts on Obama....
...and why he appeals to me. I'm currently bouncing back and forth between Obama and Edwards, but what strikes me is this:

Over the summer, I remarked that I'd like to see a leader who doesn't just promise to take care of the American people, but does what a leader is actually supposed to do: inspire people to greatness and to do great things. The nature of participatory democracy is just that: we're supposed to *participate* and be actively involved with the process. So even if I disagree with Sen. Obama on a number of issues (and I do), I almost feel like harping on those things misses the forest for the trees. If Sen. Obama can inspire people to stand up and take accountability for their own nation, then that is much more powerful than simply taking the right position on the Iraq War, or promising universal health care -- especially since any and all promises made by any candidate on the campaign trail are completely disposable once said candidate takes office.

In the military, I've learned not to judge a leader by how he or she behave, but by how his or her *people* behave. That, to me, says more about the character of the leader than any platitudes he or she might dish out. Obviously, on these forums, both sides have their share of obnoxious supporters (although I'd contend that a number of them are disruptors for the opposition), but how does the candidate affect the American people at large?

Obama inspired a large number of white Iowan Democrats to leave race aside and vote for a black man. Could he have the same affect on the nation at large? It remains to be seen. But one Edwards supporter described the Obama campaign as a "movement". I think that's exactly correct. The people who get Obama are the ones who feel *empowered* by his candidacy. There are those who are looking for a care-taker rather than a leader. I'd imagine that those people are less thrilled with Obama, and might be looking to one of the other candidates.

But I will say this to Obama supporters: the work doesn't end if you get him elected. It begins. If we are electing somebody who is inviting us back into the process of self-government, then we need to remain involved. If you expect to sit back and have President Obama magically solve everything, you're going to be sorely disappointed. I concede that's the case with all of the candidates (I regard them all as highly flawed), but I must stress: Obama is not the one who will solve our problems. We are, one way or the other.

But do I see that capability to inspire action in Clinton or Edwards? Clinton, not so much. Maybe for some, but not in most. Edwards, I see it a little bit, but not to the extent I do with Obama. And in the end, it's less about his positions on the issues and more about his capability to lead and inspire the *people* to do great things. That, to me, is what a President should be.

Will I be disappointed? Perhaps. And I may yet throw in behind Edwards. But those are my thoughts on Obama. You?
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 05:36 AM
Response to Original message
1. Excited to work for change
I was first drawn to Obama's campaign coordination and then after that I began to like the man. What I mean is that in May I was first contacted by the Obama campaign - his campaign was the first to have regional staff (1 person at the time) in our area (not the center or most populated area of the state)- no one else was contacting me because no one else was here - then June 6th was the first National Canvassing Day for Obama - and about 10 people came out in June (about 400 statewide) - and constant canvassing started happening in September. Hillary did not have an office until November and did not start canvassing until December. Edwards barely has a presence in the state.

Obama believes in the power of grassroots organizing because he saw it work in Chicago. And what I like about Obama is that he is asking people to get involved and help create the solutions to our problems.

I strongly beleive in grassroots organizing and so I liked that Obama was taking it to the people and engaging people early on - I liked this about him before I really knew about Obama and heard him speak. And since I saw him in person the first time (I had already been canvassing for him for months) I was excited with what i heard and excited that the candidate that I was canvassing for was actually canvass worthy!!
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:04 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Something else I've concluded....
...in my time in the military is that it isn't essential that an officer be a subject matter expert in everything he or she oversees. In fact, I've seen that be a drawback. The officer who's an expert often micromanages and gets too involved in his people's work instead of trusting his people to handle it. This massively slows down forward progress.

Bush's problem isn't that he doesn't know everything about our nation's business: it's that he thinks he does and doesn't listen to anybody who disagrees with him. If Obama is the type of guy who'll acknowledge his limitations and listen to people who hold diverse points of view, then that will make him a much more effective leader.

Assembling a crack cabinet is key, as that's where the real policy-making power resides. Cabinet members do need to be subject matter experts (as opposed to corporate cronies like this current administration), and I would venture to say that an Obama cabinet, Clinton cabinet, or Edwards cabinet would all look remarkably similar. So then, how effective of a leader would each of these three candidates be, given more or less the same group of people working under them? To what extent would each of them trust the people whom *they* appoint to do their jobs effectively? Those are the real questions, to my mind.
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izzie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 06:26 AM
Response to Original message
3. Military is a top down business so lets not count that
I do not think half of the West Point guys have ever been to the Constitutional Corner. I feel Obama is a man who feels what is in the wind and what the pop. is doing so gets at the head of it and brings things out that people feel. Congress was set up to run the country not one man. I think Obama is a man for our times and has got the feel of the people and would be a great President. Edwards is about the same but can not grab onto the thoughts of the people as well and Clinton is more in line with a Bush in that she knows best what we need and should be done for us or to us. Never sure just what English to use there. I would vote for any three of these but like Obama the best. Bush I feel did not hear a thing but what was in his own mind which was sit in thought many years ago and is not very modern. It is like living in Saudi and talking to those people. The people I talked to wanted to rule them self but they were under a form of govt. that is about 200 years behind the times and how they wish to live.. A part of the world that is going to battle that for a long time. Read any history book will shows us this.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:16 AM
Response to Reply #3
4. Well, the executive branch is a top-down hierarchy as well.
So I think the comparison still holds. The Legislative Branch is structured much more democratically, although it has its share of hierarchy, as well.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
5. One big problem is I know too many Democrats who will NEVER vote for Obama
even if it means sitting out the election. Maybe that balances out with NEW people Obama might bring on board.

However, that leaves us with a CLOSE election again.

Now, imagine his opponent is John McCain...


That makes things very dicey at best.



Unless the U.S. has grown-up alot since I left in 2003, I don't see Obama winning in the Fall.
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. And who might these people be who would NEVER vote for him?
I've met noone who won't vote for him. I'm curious as to what their reasoning might be.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. +60 Democrats from the South
Male and Female...
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Wow! just wow! What can I say?
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 07:56 AM by Skidmore
And exactly how many Dems from the South do you know in the UAE? Something tells me that Big Oil is worried about real change.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:44 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. People and family back home... sorry but true
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 11:44 AM by JCMach1
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Dawgs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
19. Like my two parents who are both voting for Obama.
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 12:08 PM by Dawgs
I think you couldn't be more wrong. All of my Mom's friends who are over 60 and Democrats are voting for Hillary. But, they would also love to vote for Obama.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:38 AM
Response to Reply #5
7. You have to distinguish....
...between people who *say* they won't vote for Obama because it's primary season but will come around in the general election and people who actually won't vote for him (presumably because a Republican victory would give them some sort of moral satisfaction about being "right"). In 2004, I said I'd never vote for a candidate who supported the Iraq War, yet there I was, in Qatar, filling out my absentee ballot in favor of Kerry for President (and, coincidentally, Obama for Senate). I'd wager that most people who say they'll never vote for Obama right now will eventually swallow their pride as I did and realize how damaging another four years of Republican rule would be.

Just my $0.02.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:49 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. I still think it will be a problem in possible swing states like
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 07:50 AM by JCMach1
MO, WV, VA, NC, FL... where even a small percentage shift could mean losing the election...

I can't see the electoral college math working unless the Democratic nominee takes at least one of those states.

As we learned last time, you can't count on OH.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. Missouri is a midwestern state....
...with one Republican senator and one Democratic senator. Just the kind of "purple" state that Obama's crossover appeal should be perfect for.

Obama gets the midwest because he lives there. He lives in the capital of the midwest: Chicago. Even if he's not from there (although his mother is), he lives among us and is one of us. He gets us, and his message is exactly what we're looking for.
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JCMach1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 11:47 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. Missouri hardly counts as a Midwest state
It is at best a border state... Rural areas are typically red and the St. Louis urban area, blue...

And, it always seems to be a swing state.

I hope the nomination will play out. If Obama can legitimately pull in enough votes to take the nomination, then so be it.

However, what I fear is Kerry redux...
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The Ghost Donating Member (557 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:02 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. I agree ...
I did the same thing, after Clark lost, I swore I would never vote for Kerry, cause I was bitter. But once the GOP came after him, I was on his side. Im for Obama, and I would be very disappointed if HRC won, and I say now Id never vote for her, but I know deep down once the GOP starts attacking her, Ive got her back, cause shes on my team.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:05 PM
Response to Reply #5
17. As someone who has knocked on doors in the South
I have heard many 60+ white men and women saying they would NOT vote for Hillary. It is the visceral thing that people can not describe about Hillary.

Obama has a great field team of volunteers and community members. I hope he'll take South Carolina.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
11. self-delete
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 08:33 AM by AtomicKitten
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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 08:36 AM
Response to Original message
13. Best Obama moment of the night, for me
was when he talked about how you have to make government more transparent and empower citizens to be more engaged in democracy.

This is a core principle for me and it seems Obama is the only one who recognizes the importance of it.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:07 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. It;s the most important aspect for me
and again I liked that fact about him before I really knew anything more about him.
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CarbonDate Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-07-08 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. Engaging people directly and listening to them....
...has a dual benefit: it gives you the benefit of their experience, and it makes them feel better about you as a person. Obama seems to get that.
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