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"We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delievered."

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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:53 PM
Original message
"We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delievered."
"We don't need to be raising the false hopes of our country about what can be delievered."

I am dishearteed to hear Sen. Clinton say this at the debate last night. I don't have "false hopes."

I believe that every America has a right to affordable, quality health care. I believe no one sould be judged on race, gender, religion, disability, or sexual orientation. I believe that world class education is a right and our moral obligation to the future. I believe the middle class of this country is what makes it great.

These are not false hopes of mine or any of her opponents. These are collective hopes of millions of Americans and they can be realized if we have the dream and vision and tenacity to fight for them. Not sure what to do with this now.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
1. When she said this, I feel she sealed her fate.
I don't support her, but why would she crucify herself by saying such a thing? And WHY would she have so little hope? Is it because she herself would NEVER try to make big changes? Damn, that's scary!
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:57 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. I don't know how any presidential candidate can say that about the beliefs
that a majority of Americans hold--an overwhelming majority in our party. I feel disappointed.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. I was very shocked. This country is suffering so badly after decades of right wingers...
... we need to UNDO the damage done to us by Repukes. That requires HUGE changes! She must not have been feeling well when she said that or something.
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Phoebe Loosinhouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I agree. It makes her sound cynical and jaded -
The opposite of the message of the other 2: Hope and Fight.

Her message is "can't we all just go along?"
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. She also hurt herself! And it showed that she would NOT try for big changes.
Why would she do that? It's CRAZY! This country needs HUGE changes! The damage done by the Repukes has to be REVERSED!
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. That was definitely her worst moment last night, worse than losing her temper.
She basically took the bait Edwards threw her, and solidly identified herself with the inside the beltway type politicians as opposed to the sort of outside reformist thing Obama and Edwards are running on.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. I don't begrudge her getting angry. Everyone has that right! Everyone! However....
... I can't even IMAGINE how a presidential candidate would not think that this country needs BIG BIG HUGE changes to undo the damage done to this country's people by Republicans. What on earth was she thinking??? What on earth IS she thinking???
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TheWraith Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
35. It wasn't so much getting angry as taking it personally.
What Edwards said had got under her skin, and she lost her temper.
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Sarah Ibarruri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. Yep. That's true. nt
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 12:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Pretty soon when the smoke clears, were going to see that jr
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 01:00 PM by The_Casual_Observer
has broken the back of america. The economic hangover from that 8 years will be with us for the next 20 years. I doubt there will be any National Health care from anybody, including Obama.

Saddly, hope & speeches don't always translate into actions.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. With hope comes action
Obama is not just talking about hope. In every speech he talks about how we each need to start taking action so that we can BE the change we wish to see.

I have Hope in Obama and I have hope that the actions I am taking will make a better tomorrow.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:05 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Oh please.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. Or you can sit on your couch and not do a thing
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 01:12 PM by SCDem
Regardless - that is what is motivating people to vote for Obama - he is saying that the population needs to be involved that is what a democracy is - and people are ready and dying for the responsibility.

It's actually very much what Dean said in 2003 and I took his advice and I have remained active at the local level ever since.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. Trust me I have better things to do than listen to Obama
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 01:19 PM by The_Casual_Observer
And dream about a better day ahead he has planned for me, after he votes "present" a few more times.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
33. however, I notice you have plenty of time to mudsling Obama
:7


priorities, priorities.
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The_Casual_Observer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 02:45 PM
Response to Reply #33
34. T_C_O abhors buzz.
Edited on Sun Jan-06-08 02:50 PM by The_Casual_Observer
The wet blanket effect.

In my experience buzz leads to wasting money on consumer products & a war in Iraq. I don't know what the result of this buzz would be, but I remain suspicious.
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SCDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:00 PM
Response to Original message
5. Yep that was a jaw dropper for me
I thought wow this from a woman who is the spouse of man that came from humble beginnings in a place called Hope, Arkansas.

How much hope am I allowed to have?
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:01 PM
Response to Original message
7. Yup. n/t
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. She probably shound't have said it, but just look at our reaction
to the Dems controling both houses of congress but still not able to do anything BIG! I think Hillary was simply telling everyone that major changes don't come easily and if you think any President can make all you want happen alone is false hope. I agree with her. She could have added that you could eliminate the false part by electing a super majority in the House & the Senate. Maybe there wasn't time to say that, maybe she didn't think it was the right time to bring congressional elections into the discussion.
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yourguide Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:07 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. the dems dont control enough of the senate to get much of...
what the house has passed pushed through.

I agree though, her talking about "false hopes" and her snide "reality check" statement really depressed me. I had been on the fence until last night, I have ruled her out entirely.

GWB has made a mess of things, I want things to get better, I want things to change. I would rather hear someone say lets do it, and at least try rather then come up with all of the reasons it cant be done.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:10 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. That's sweet that you're always
excusing hillary but I ain't buyin'.
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napi21 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #16
22. I guess I as excusing Hillary although that wasn't my intent. I do
think she was correct, but I also think it was the same mistake that Mondale made when he said something like "Both of us will raise your taxes. My opponent won't tell you...I WILL!"
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beyurslf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #12
18. But if you take big change off the table as a "false hope" what are you left with?
I know a president can't make policy alone. And I know that Sen. Clinton believes in the things I named. (I have been a long time supporter of hers!) But to hear her say that in a Dem debate right before an election.....? I don't know. Obama moved me ... gave me chills.. with his speech after Iowa and then I hear this from Clinton. I want our country to change... and I want it to change big. I want to help be the change. I want to elect someone who wants me to join in being that change.

I am disappointed in myself in some ways. I am a long time Dem activist who hates it when people "undecided" right up until the election as if they don't know who they like. What they really want is to support the winner, I am always thinking. And people who change from side to side based on speeches--how dumb is that! Yet here I am, waivering, unsure, influenced by a speech, caught off guard by a quote.
Ugh. Can this all be done already so we can have our nominee and line up behind her or him please. :)
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
15. You're totally surprising me..
I was all prepared to say that was not brilliant what she said and is the thinking of a very negative "no can do" person. hillary and her advisers(whose idea was this one?) are trying too hard to stamp out Edwards' and Obama's message.

hillary is status quo and it comes out in unforseen circumstances.

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Democrats_win Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
20. She speaks the truth of today's Washington. Can that be changed?
Look at Bill Clinton. He had a Dem congress and couldn't get anything REAL passed other than his very important budget. This should be a lesson to Dems--either accomplish something for the American people or loose big time in 2010.

THis DEM congress will accomplish nothing because of the nonsense of the filibuster. Are we brave enough to get rid of it in 2009? That's the way to accomplish change. Why should low population and dying states like North Dakota (600,000--According to this month's National Geographic) stop America from moving into the 21st century? That is unless you consider an America on hyperinflation our destiny.
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #20
24. That was then this is now..
it's not all about hillary..if she can't do it someone else can.
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elaineb Donating Member (273 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
21. Fortunately the presidency isn't a delivery service
What hopes can't be realized with the inspiration of a TRUE leader? And what hopes can't be "delivered" if it's what the majority of Americans really WANT? The people are still the government in this country, and nobody should believe that the American people can't decide their own fate and their own future.
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GreenArrow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:21 PM
Response to Original message
23. as distressing as it may be,
she's right.
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DrFunkenstein Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:28 PM
Response to Original message
25. Where Would Liberalism Be Without Hope? All Major Social Changes
Drew upon the power of hope through the years of struggle without success until our struggles became victories. Do you think we'd have a weekend without hope? Thank labor workers with the audacity of hope guiding them. How many decades without success before slavery was abolished?

Hope is our greatest weapon. It is what makes American great.
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Triana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:33 PM
Response to Original message
26. Making excuses for not fighting the corporates and their lobbyists...
...not good.
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. She was speaking of a huge overhaul of "how Washington does business"
which is often promised, but never delivered. It's not something a president can do on their own, but involves Congress and the courts and a lot of barriers and compromises.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #27
30. I've heard "false choices" used, but I don't like the "false hope" meme.
There has got to be a better way for Clinton to get her point across. She could emphasize that change always comes incrementally, even when the goal is a revolution.

"False hope," I don't like the sound of that!

Edwards exploits false hope.... In my 25 years in Washington, I have never seen a more loathsome display of demagoguery.

“It’s not fair” to raise false hopes...




Prominent Stem Cell Researcher Praised By Bush Rips White House’s Stem Cell Policies


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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:46 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. I see what you mean
Maybe she's saying "hope" to tie it to Obama's campaign theme about "hope." I see what you mean that it might not have a good ring to it.
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smoogatz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:35 PM
Response to Original message
28. Because America's always been about reduced expectations.
Sheesh.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
29. sadly, this emphasizes what is wrong with beltway dems.
becoming jaded about the system GUARANTEES no change.
change has to happen, even if it is difficult. What are we? if we are afraid to do something because it is difficult, we don't deserve change.
and Clinton does not deserve to be the candidate.
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Clanfear Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-06-08 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
32. I wonder if $5,000 to every newborn child was a false hope?
It sure seems that way since it was pulled before she really ever defended it.
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