"You're likable enough, Hillary."

I'm just curious about people's reactions to this statement by Obama late in last night's debate. No comment from me.

her. So, kudos to Barack for trying.

I took it differently but maybe it really was an effort for him, being as he must know her pretty well by now.

What a horrible thing to say.

that we need a Reality Check after Edwards/Obama spoke from the heart about family illnesses/death or that they were giving people "FALSE HOPE". Talk about horrible.

She was pointing out that change doesn't come easily and giving the other side to a dramatic claim Edwards made.

She didn't say false hope about Obama's family either. Just because Obama throws in a line in his answer about death in his family doesn't exempt everything else he says from debate.

Her "reality check" pointed out several holes in what Obama and Edwards had said. They were valid points.

She did NOT in ANY way say Edwards was responsible for a girl's death! That's just ridiculous!!

The "false hope" had to do with radical changes in "how Washington does business," which is a standard line for politicians that is never fulfilled.

I think if you look at her record, you'll see she's taken on causes and projects that indicate plenty of compassion. But nevermind -- she had the audacity to act like she was running for office or something.

we're not imagining the arrogance behind the remark.

Can we not conveniently forget the pundit's affiliations, thankyouverymuch.

This is the kind of subtle thing that men do when they're trying to diminish a woman but don't dare do it directly.

It was intentional, it was deliberate, and I was greatly offended. He showed his true colors.

I'm Senator Clinton's age and have worked in a man's world, like she has, for my entire career. I've had to pretend to ignore those kinds of comments, but I've heard them. And they've helped me identify which men don't think that a woman is a full-fledged, equal person. "Us boys, we're special, aren't we?"

We don't need any more men like that in charge of this country.

nt

As for you, demonizing her that way? Does Obama encourage this behavior? Is this his standard of behavior?

I give him props for showing us his misogynistic side. Even if for one quick glimpse. I hope it hurt him. I doubt it helped.

Honestly, wtf kind of question WAS that? :shrug:

do you think?

question, aimed at any of them would embarrass him. I was.

gentleman at all.

Says a lot about him, and not favorable.


What an ass.

know how to do. Just reinforces the point I've made about him several times, when it comes to him talking out of his a@s.

He's full of himself already.

He went downhill from there.

would you be so concerned about how gentlemanly he was.

What happened to his uniter not a divider propaganda - the "can't we all just get along" thingie?

I think he has a problem with older people - he doesn't like them. His generational war is not a campaign strategy - it is who he is. His skipping of the AARP debate speaks volumes. His strategy against older people is just as obvious as his screw the gays plan.

He seems way more interested in getting along with the enemy than with our friends. What does that make him? - the enemy.

Didn't he also insult Ted Kennedy a while back basically calling him a tired old man who needed to get out of the way?

I also think his response last night was graceless and without class.

sorry sonny, but we're still here and there a lot of us. it isn't good to make grannies mad.

by saying she thought he was very likeable. Also, he didn't say her name, just, "you're likeable enough." Emphasis on the word "enough." Very snarky.

Pride cometh before a fall...and I hope he remembers that.

It was patronizing and arrogant.
America loves to tear down what it builds up.

I could also see some pissiness in Obama--well, not *some*---quite a bit!

I.e. being President shouldn't be about "likability."

OTOH "likable enough" does imply "you're not all that likable, but likable enough for what the job entails", which imo fits Hillary pretty well.

It seems appropriate.

I thought the question was really, really cheap. Hillary did well with it, and Obama was under no obligation than to gently deny that she's not likeable.

Seemed okay.

it gives us some insight into what he thinks of women.

Obama's a class act.

AS a woman, if a man make a comment like that in 'debate like' situation, I would be really insulted. What a prick. As a woman, the most preferable reaction would be like ' That is not the issue here.' We are talking about politics not 'popularity contest'.

In general, I cannot believe there are so many 'sexist comment against Hilary' on DU. She is not my first choice ( my first is Gore, Second is Edwards, Hilary is third ) but I cannot stands this anymore.

I recall Obama also joked before to Hilary ' You can work for me'. Obama is the most holier than thou candidate I have ever seen before. He really is a star. Does not mean can really do the job.

Unlike JFK ( who was a first year senator but worked as a congressman for long time before.), Obama does not have any qualification. I wonder if Obama were not half black, would all cool kids supporters go for him? I really doubt that.

I have a few African American women friends. I asked them their opinion. Their reply was rather interesting. They really likes Hilary but they feel obliged to vote for Obama.


Hertopos

...which said that 69% of black women would vote for Clinton. Wonder what those numbers are today.

It's very interesting. If Hilary is such a 'uncompassionate person', they would not say they like her. In contrast, they feel 'pressured' to vote for Obama.

Hertopos

line" as a throwaway comment but he looked petty. He could have come across as charming had he made a more gracious statement but for some reason he chose not to. I noticed that George Stephanoplous noticed it also as a negative.

I thought it was a light moment, and showed (fake or not) a level of friendly rapport among the candidates.

What I thought played badly for Obama and Edwards, though, was their seating placement and their own references to their popularity and likeability -- it was like they were the cool, popular kids at one end of the table, pointing at the kid nobody likes. With two of them doing it, it made them both seem weaker, as though they needed each other. (I thought Edwards did Obama no favors with that.)

But I think the "likeable enough" comment wasn't meant maliciously. It just re-emphasized the "we're popular and you're not" thing in my mind.

I wasn't offended (though I'm sure a lot of Hillary supporters were, as I would be if somebody went after my candidate), but it just wasn't very funny.

I'm with Hillary here, "likability" shouldn't mean shit.

And he may have meant well. But it did come across as petty, even cruel.

smile but continued to take notes. I don't think he was concentrating much on what he was saying or doing so it might have come across as a little condescending but I don't think he meant it that way.

has spread some vicious rumors about him, so I imagine there's no love lost. It was more than she deserved.

"candidate of change", because of his changing positions constantly. Good stuff. Be sure to tip the waitresses!

had scored a direct hit!

it was really funny and true. :D

Just terrible. AWFUL. Worst than awful. NON likable.
It cost him the election. He should have a press conference
and apologize to her and me before I ever listen to him again.
I've had it up to HERE.

I can't have candy bars. Although candy bars are likable enough.

I like Barack but he's raised the bar and when he lowers the bar with ungracious remarks it's not attractive.

What a contrast.

Hillary was gracious and engaging.


Obama was rude, arrogant, and condescending.

I've seen it before from him. Hopefully the people of NH were paying attention.

I was wondering if she had taken a couple of lines of coke to get her up? I mean that in an honest way because I homed in on her obvious change of personality. Either that or she drank a triple shot espresso and three Red Bull's? :shrug:

But she would still have manners.

I just spoke about how ungracious Barack was and if you want to talk about the opposite of engaging we can talk about Richardson's performance last night. I'm not even sure he was at the same debate.

Yes the men are also expected to be gracious and engaging. One of the big stories on the Republican debate was how they bickered and attacked the whole night...also not gracious, however highly engaging.

Have you read the rest of this thread? Seriously.

Probably my bad for not expressing myself very well.

I was responding to someone who accused Hillary of not being "gracious and engaging" during the first part of the debate, that is when she was fighting back aggressively.

It was my point that a man can fight aggressively and no one will call him ungracious. He's a fighter and that's a good thing.

Obama is being called out in this thread for specific rude, condescending, dismissive (and thus disrespectful) behavior. Hillary was being called not "gracious or engaging" for anything specific, but for simply standing up for herself and not laying back and taking it when "the boys" ganged up on her.

I hope Obama lets his guard down a bit more often. All it takes is to have Clinton stand up to him and he tries to dismiss her as if she is some non-entity who needs to crawl back into the kitchen.

I was simply :shrug:

he sort of snarled it at her and didn't even look up. My mom e-mailed me right after it happened and was like, "I can't believe what Obama just said!" Really, I would expect him to handle himself better than that. I thought he came across badly.

I don't think any of the candidates is comfortable with discussing the results of polls about who is the most likeable. I think Hillary did great with how she dealt with this question. I think Obama was most likely attempting to be helpful in defusing an embarassing situation, but maybe to some people it sounded like he was disrespecting Hillary.

Hillary did great in this debate and I think she would win New Hampshire if the primary was only open to registered Democrats. But Independents will probably help Obama to win it.

Obama better watch that. He sucked in that debate, playing it so safe. Reminded me of Hillary earlier in the campaign.

like it was set up for her to make herself look better after making herself look horrible in the first part.

and so some thought it was hell.

Hillary IS Likeable enough.

Obama has stated time and time again, he will not tell us what we want to hear, he will tell us what we need to know. Hillary is Likeable enough.

Period.

a big deal about this. It appeared to be an offhand statement towards her. If you Hillary supporters are going to get yourself all tied up over an offhand comment, then she is really not ready for the GE where she will continue to be swiftboated beyond belief by salivating Repugs.

We can't make up our own minds?

As for whether she is or not, maybe so. But when I heard him say it, the first thing that popped into my mind was, well, that explains why he's been called arrogant.

that's the first thing that I thought too.

He was trying to make light of the situation. I'm sure he did not intend for it to look like he was trying to poke fun at Hillary for supposedly being less likeable than he is (at least - according to the polls mentioned in the question).

and the way he said it played it brilliantly. he was having fun WITH her, not at her expense.

Hillary: "He's very likeable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad."

Obama: "You're likeable enough, Hillary. No doubt about it."

Hillary (still smiling): "I appreciate that."

she wants to go for Obama's jugular so what was he suppose to say? hillary, you're the nicest mud slinger on the planet.

If he had just said, "You're likeable, Hillary", he could have been seen as being in on the joke or even being nice, but by saying, "You're likeable enough" (while not even looking at her), it made it sound like he really doesn't like her at all.

Bravo.

"enough" sounds sarcastic.

"you're likeable enough... for a girl".

It struck my wife and I as a slip - where his ugly side crept out into the open.

if he had said "you're likeable" it wouldn't have made sense. He didn't need to validate the fact that she's likeable. She thought she was. She was having fun with it, and so was he.

question. She could very well have responded differently. As for ugly, Hillary and her camp have been spreading ugly around like it was going out of style.

Then all the Hillary supporters on DU would be happy with him.

Ain't that the truth.

I'm a very dry, sarcastic person myself, but even to me his comment came off as snarky. I am not sure if it was an attempt at deadpan humor or a bitchy remark. (Yes, men can be bitchy, too!!!)

Either way, I didn't like it. It confused me.

Hillary: "He's very likeable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad."

Obama: "You're likeable enough, Hillary. No doubt about it."

Hillary (still smiling): "I appreciate that."

okay now?

in a sick twisted way.

Hillary: "He's very likeable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad."

Obama: "You're likeable enough, Hillary. No doubt about it."

Hillary (still smiling): "I appreciate that."

Thanks for posting this, and it's a shame that something we all heard
with our own ears requires reiteration.

I didn't think of it as any insult. I thought it was a horrible question to Hillary, especially phrased as it was. If they wanted to ask something it should be more neutral such as "Your favorability ratings..." Not comparing it to Obama or Edwards, just a question about her ratings.

NOT that people don't like her and they do like Obama. What is this, a junior high slam? Horrible. They don't ask in polls if you like someone. You can like them fine but not have a favorable opinion of them as a candidate.

When he said "You're likable enough, Hillary." I thought he was saying it's not an issue. Hell he gets accused of being TOO likable as an insult...though not in debates because as bad as most are they aren't so stupid to talk about people liking or not liking you.

It was stupid and I thought his response was fine...but then I read/heard that it was rude. I guess he should have said "You're likable enough, Hillary and so am I." which it felt like to me but not to many others. We are all putting our interpretations on it.

How perfect must answers be after the sleep schedule they were on? I thought none were stellar, all were fine and to me they are all "likable enough" .

...just being humorously gracious with that comment. I didn't see any dark intent. He doesn't need to do that.

Sometimes we all need to lighten up a bit. I have my concerns about Obama, but I think he's basically a very intelligent and well-intentioned guy, with a nice sense of humor. And I'd *love* to see a black man in the White House -- as long as he honors the separation of church and state! And as long as he's not compromised with too many corporate donors.

She played the "Aww...it would hurt my feelings..." I forget what her follow-up comment was, but she tried to play the "Poor Little Me" card. Obama's comment was a throwaway comment because he could smell the bullshit from where he was sitting.

Waaahhh....nobody lies me!

:boring:

:eyes:

...the question was to begin with.

If this is what feminists have been fighting for, well, they all need to get a life!

For the record, I'm not a Hillary supporter.

N/T

she was making fun of that kind of question and being sarcastic and doing it in a lighthearted way. I'm not a fan of hers or a supporter but I have to say that comment she made was for me the only time I found her likable during the debate. I think she would go further in her run if she showed that side of herself more often.

What's conveniently being left out here is that Hillary laughed after Obama said that and they both realized that it was a light moment of the debate. Not to mention the Clintons have been viciously attacking Obama in the campaign so what else should he say?

I think both Obama and Clinton both realized how stupid and petty the question was and were doing the best they could to deflate the question's significance.

:eyes:

I thought it was pretty rude when he said it. My wife and I were talking about it after the debate, and she thought that perhaps his intended meaning was supposed to be something like, "You're doing pretty well in the polls, too, so clearly there are a number of people who like you as well." But he said it in an, um, inelegant way and it came off as a slam.

I'm not really sure. I'm inclined to give Obama the benefit of the doubt. But it is certainly possible that we got a momentary glimpse of the not-so-likeable side of Barack Obama.

:shrug:

good to see you in GD-P, Skinner! :hi:

...I thought he handled that stupid situation with great elegance! (That header for just for shock effect, BTW!)

People are dying in Iraq and we're crunching on that stupid sound-byte moment. The world thinks we Americans are pretty superficial, and I am forced sometimes to agree!

This is the kind of subtle thing that men do when they're trying to diminish a woman but don't dare do it directly. It was the "enough" that really made the point. "Enough", indeed!

It was intentional, it was deliberate, and I was greatly offended. He showed his true colors.

I'm Senator Clinton's age and have worked in a man's world, like she has, for my entire career. I've had to pretend to ignore those kinds of comments, but I've heard them. And they've helped me identify which men don't think that a woman is a full-fledged, equal person. "Us boys, we're special, aren't we?"

We don't need any more men like that in charge of this country.

You stated your case beautifully.:toast:

be elected......

because being a President is not only about likeability.

To read the transcript gives you absolutely nothing. You have to see the video to actually see the expression on his face and the way he actually spoke...it was a pretty condescending delivery. I felt bad for her after he said that, and I'm an Edwards supporter...

it may have cost him some support. I don't think women like the image of a man treating a woman that way. The male candidates will have to watch out...her sex could be a weapon for her.

The initial question to Clinton made me cringe -- it was unnecessarily cruel and humiliating. The way she handled it seemed about as good as could be done, and even this Edwards supporter felt a lot of empathy for her. Obama's faint praise looked like he was piling on. I immediately thought he had just lost the votes of many women while making Clinton appear more vulnerable and "human", reminding me of when Lazio "invaded" her space during a debate.

I don't understand why Obama chose to say anything -- in the previous hour, it had been Clinton who had faulted a couple of times along the empathy line. Obama has made a few similar comments in the other debates, which to me seem tinged with sarcasm, a put-down, maybe a little "humor". I can't know what he intended, but the result is that he loses a bit on the "nice" scale.

BTW I noticed that when CNN was showing all this on Blitzer, they edited out Obama's comment.

None of these candidates should attempt unscripted humor in a debate; they aren't very good at it. Each of their spouses is much better. I wish they were better at this because several of the Repub candidates are much better at this and use it to their advantage to connect with voters.

That was a tasteless question, btw.

:shrug: The question was cruel. I think it was a setup to try to get her emotional--but it didn't work. Hillary is tough!

:-)

was "likable" the way that POS bush is alleged to be "likable"...

Obama was making the counter point that hillary is NOT always very nice...

He looked tired which probably resulted in some of the animosity that has built up during the campaign to slip out.

It is pretty clear the relationship between HRC and BO is strained.

He was writing something when he made that response. I think it just popped out, and was kind of innocuous, but wrong place wrong time.

he didn't say Hillary either. He said you're likable enough in a surly voice like you'd get from a teenager. It was incredibly rude, especially after she said he is very likable.

6:00 mark begins the exchange. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x81378

I'd say it's time for them to close the show.

To me that was more important. He mentioned that voters thought that she was the most experienced and electable, but that they liked Obama more. To me it's more important to have the most capable president, we are not choosing the Prom king!!!

As for Obama, I agree with George when he told Diane that Obama's response was small and petty. It struck me as snarky and cocky, but then again, that's how the guy always strikes me..........

As in: Ha ha, please don't get any more likable(in the polls), you're likable enough.

IMHO people here are reading as much into this as they are the great "Hillary MELTDOWWWWWNNNNN"

OMG she sounded earnest! :eyes: Talk about a slow news cycle. I wish Edwards' two-headed alien baby was here.....

His supporters claim that he is above the fray. My ass.

zomg

the two of them.

I thought Edwards was the clear winner in that debate.

:evilgrin:

if so, I hope Obama gets even cockier and more mean-spirited...that's what people really want to see...the female hating ObamaMan.:evilgrin:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080109/ap_on_el_pr/primary_dem_analysis

Obama should have been more gracious. By that point Hillary was already on the ropes with her failed attempts to slime him. She looked pathetic and he didn't need to get in another jab.

about how hard-assed she is in the dark recesses of the Senate chambers...